Carth
Carth
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Slugging and using knockout to down survivors is fine. Leaving an entire team/person on the ground for four minutes just to be spiteful is the problem.
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@Jace233 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3421038#Comment_3421038
Everything is fine with DBD, you are right. The devs aren't total dogcrap and you aren't a bunch of idiotic sheep that agree/disagree for the sake of it.
I hope this game dies and i never have to see this dog crap community again. You guys are literally just that bad.
This topic was made shockingly close after a content creator uploaded a video bemoaning how boring dbd is. You would just wait for him to tell you what to think and come here and regurgitate streamer opinions. People here pointed out how your ideas are "unfun" and your response is to insult us and not expand upon how your ideas are in fact fun, which speaks volumes about how shallow the idea was in the first place.
The fact is DBD has a huge amount of people playing it and what person A finds fun is not a guarantee person B will find it fun. Add in engine limitations and the like and you'll never be able to make a perfect power. The statement "stop making boring killers" loses all meaning with this in mind.
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So with the proposed corrective action if I and one other teammate are running the perk each we both convert each other's goods into greats and because we are getting greats we get tokens back and so now gens have a 100% great skill check hit rate as long as two people are on it with the perk.
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Survivors : "umm if you're bad and don't have macro play and know when to drop chase then you deserve to lose"
Killers: hit and run
Survivors: "NOOOO not like that!!!"
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A mind control character would absolutely be hated. An unavoidable CC that then stuns other players? That would cause a flood of hate.
As to your sorcerer idea how is that any different from. "Huntress but instead of a hatchet throws a red fireball".
There are no "fun" killers because survivors want a killer that has a power that cant hurt them, reduce stealth, give away position, expose them, give the killer mobility, have side objective, be anti-loop, and it can't be used to camp gens. There is no power that fits that definition and you would be extremely hard pressed to come up with one that somehow does nothing but is also worth being called a power.
Literally any killer power idea that anyone has can 100% be labelled boring/unfun/shouldn't exist If we followed forum rules.
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Just for fun let's envision a world where this is the case. Do you think
A) Killers will brainlessly hook the obsession on death hook to kill them and lose their stbfl stacks
Or
B-1) killers will slug the obsession to preserve stbfl stacks at all costs and just re-slug the obsession whenever theyre encountered
B-2) survivors who see that they're the obsession and notice that the killer is running stbfl DC to spite the killer and turn their perk off if they're close to death or being slugged.
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How exactly are they doubling down? They have told us before new releases get tomes quickly.
What exactly are you expecting OP? a new power? Extreme nerfs(bad news she can still 3 gen even with no power or perks)? Something else entirely?
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417736#Comment_3417736
how
just tell us how
it literally just enables you to use a different sense to detect the TR.
That. Is. It.
By this logic how about if a single pixel of a survivor is out of cover in a killers FOV they get highlighted in bright red? That's just using the same tools that you could see with your eye previously but perhaps due to a disability or eye problem someone could have problems identifying it. It's not giving any extra info that wasn't already present and someone with a sharper eye might have seen.
Obviously such an idea would be dumb and almost assuredly every killer player would turn on such a feature because it provides a huge advantage. If you can discern every audio sound, level, and split those out amongst the TR, chase music, survivor ambient noise, environment ambient noise, and gen sounds I'll be very impressed. There are scenarios where the visual TR gives you a much better heads up vs being able to identify the TR via audio. It is a buff in those scenarios. That said, I do think it's an overall good addition to the game and helps bridge a gap but pretending it's not a buff is silly in my opinion.
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It is an accessibility option AND a buff. If it was only accessibility why is it that almost every survivor I see is running it? I would love to see the adoption stats/use of something like the color blind feature vs the adoption statst/use of the visual terror radius.
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Certain groups want to win 100% of the time and also have the ability to clown on you the entire time.
If you win its because you camped/tunneled.
If you didn't camp/tunnel it's because you ran X perk
if you didn't run any meta perks it's because you're playing an OP killer
if you didn't play an OP killer it's because you locked down part of the map
if you didn't lock down the map it's because you played so sweaty vs some pals joking around.
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Survivor depends on the killer to get many of their bloodpoints. Healing/unhooking/chase/pallet stuns. Almost everything outside of gen repair is really tied to the killer doing something, and if you stomp the killer/get stomped/the killer is tunneling/the killer is camping/the killer is afk you will unfortunately be in a situation where you probably max out bloodpoints for gens and have nothing elsewhere.
Perhaps a system where points aren't as reliant on killer actions? I'm unsure how such a system would work or if they could just buff BP acquisition for survivors across the board but it wouldn't help in a situation where you find yourself mostly doing one thing all hame. Also to answer your question I dont think I've broken 40k on survivor
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@Jejune said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416101#Comment_3416101
If you want to compare it to noed, noed would no longer be a hex perk instead it would make your first swing after 5 gens are finished apply exposed (whether you hit or not). You cant let survivors whatever otherwise you wont get any use out of No way out.
You can literally be tunneled out of a game and have 0 change to use them, but you need to be hooked twice to get full potential of the perks.
I don't think you understand my point. You're saying a perk that is tied to in game actions to activate(getting hooked, gens getting powered, whatever) is not fair because you need to purposely throw/not play the game normally in order to activate them.
That is not the intent of how you gain those perks, you play normally and get them when you get the (if you do at all).
To your point about tunneling and camping , that's true of any survivor perk though? You could bring stakeout and if the killer hard tunnels you, you aren't going to get any use out of your perk. That's not a problem with each perk but the fact that DBD is designed the way it is.
The two perks in question are designed to help you survive as you get closer to death, not give you a 2-3 layer shield before you even get hooked for the first time.
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By this logic noed and no way out force you to let survivors also complete five gens to get value I guess? I can't recall the last time I thought "oh man better not hook this person so I can get noed value maybe" however.
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You can run whispers to help with this, it's not exact but you should get a rough idea of what "quadrant" of the map a survivor is hiding in. Aura perks are sometimes tied to specific activation conditions or can be countered by distortion or hiding behind gens but whispers will always give you a heads up
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the take of "It's a sign of submission" is beyond strange. It's just a funny/silly interaction between people, ya'll need to touch some grass if you are equating it to animal signs of submission. "ugh that feng just let me pee all over her basically" is probably not what is going on in most peoples' minds when they see a survivor drop a flashlight.
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"Nooo, after we pre-drop pallets and get 3 gens completed by the first hook the killer HAS to accept their slow gradual loss. Why can't they be happy with 5 hooks? Also we need to tone down tunneling and camping too in addition to slugging"
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@thrawn3054 said:
I disagree that it isn't the killers fault. They chose to play her. They chose to employ a three gen strat. Everything that makes those games a nightmare are down to the killer players choices.
That's because BHVR is responding to all the "unfun" complaints around anti-loop like pyramid head, nemesis, etc. Complaints around hyper mobility like blight,spirit, nurse. What exactly is left? Survivors have complained about mobility killers getting across the map too fast, anti-loop killers being too boring and ending chases too rapidly, and insta down and 1 hit killers like plague are too boring and unfun to vs.
At this point the only "good" killers according to survivor mains are all rehashes of "dashes fast in a straight line and can cause 1 health state of damage and has a long and wind up and cool down".
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*monkeys finger curls*
Everyone is now at Claire's volume
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Where does the line get drawn?
Lethals bad, what about bbq and chilli? What about bbq and chilli plus another perk like darkness revealed? Is that an issue or is it ok? Is your issue with the strength of aura perks or the stacking of them, or something else entirely?
How does a perk like save the best for last compare to a perk like darkness revealed? Is one strictly better than the other?
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How would such a system not be abused to auto complete the last gen via dc or dcing just before you get killed to give your team a free gen?
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I would argue the only difference is a casual/new/lower skilled survivor has the potential to be carried by teammates. A casual/new/low skill killer just loses since there is no teammate who can pick up the slack.
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Yes because the idea of 4 survivors spraying chainguns to pin the killer into a corner certainly screams "balanced" on top of it making zero sense thematically for this game.
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Because a survivor getting unhooked and then body blocking for the unhooker/teammates with a 100% guaranteed safety shield + crawl out potential was stupid. If survivors only used it the way it was intended? Not a problem but when it becomes an offensive tool it ceases to be "anti tunnel"
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DBD matchmaker heavily heavily prioritizes waiting time over skill. Even in ideal situations it will generate matches that should never happen. Now throw in times when there's not enough players playing x role and it gets comically worse, you could be going against brand new survivors or swf running green medkits and bnps. How long they have been waiting to find a killer plays a very large role
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She suffers from a lot of the design problems recent killers do. Namely survivor "fun" and "counterplay" seem to be number one priorities. They made on an paper "high mobility stealth killer", but burdened her with extremely high cooldowns, a power that feels extremely boring/out of your hands to use, a lullaby, and to tie a neat bow on it attached an insta kill mechanic to justify all of the aforementioned terrible things.
The instant kill mechanic though is so bad and unreliable in any normal game it will never ever come into play. That said due to a combination of some specific add-ons and perks you can create a build to actually make condemned a threat and it's extremely boring to deal with as she just farms condemned stacks around. She's just awful all around.
Take wraith and Freddy and smash them together and heavily nerf all their abilities and then add an extremely conditional insta kill and you have sadako.
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BHVR has found themselves in a bit of a bind, as they continue to add perks off category X (Gen related, info related, healing related, movement related) they can start to create unforeseen combos or combos that they just don't care to balance right out of the gate. Gen Regression is a great example but this can be extended to anything. It seems BHVRS answer to the problem is to nerf the problematic perks so when stacked they are "ok" at best and bad/mediocre when alone or hyper specific to certain killers/scenarios.
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It should be killswitched. It can change an entire game around when it happens
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@Shroompy said:
Became Survivor sided?? Through out the years the game has become more and more killer sided and thats not an opinion, thats a fact.
There is no doubt in my mind that Killer is the easiest its ever been. Now before you freak out, am I saying killer is easy? No, and itll almost always be the harder role simply because you have 4 other people to worry about. But compared to what we used to deal with, killer nowadays is nothing.
That being said, killer is still no where near as hard as some make it out to be, sure its no kids game, but its no no damage run dark souls either.
100% true. Infinites used to be a thing, 60 second ds that never went away used to be a thing, dead hard was significantly stronger, insta blind, vacuum, etc. Survivors have been getting many many nerfs(deservedly in many cases imo) for years
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I don't think it's reportable as the hook timer did have a technical "end" coming for you. That said any area where this is possible should for sure be changed/the killer should not be able to block like that, it's why basement stairs were made wider in the past and similar situations got tweaked.
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As you can already see in this thread,
being efficient on survivor = skilled and making great use of the games mechanics, stacking perks with great synergy is smart and clever
Being efficient on killer = unfun and abusing game mechanics that shouldnt exist, stacking perks with great synergy is breaking the game and boring
It's the same vein of thought as "nurse/blight/spirit/high mobility killers all need nerfs but don't touch ANYTHING swf related because it might hurt solo!"
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@PapaEmeritus69 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395024#Comment_3395024
I'm not anything special friendo, I probably 3-4k about 3/4s of my games and my point is so do you and most other people. The annoying part is acting like losing 2 or 3 games out of 10 is indicative of your entire killer experience.
And this claim is mostly aimed at the content creators (which I'm not) in regard to their rhetoric about the state of killer. I've seen some people make claims that the game is wildly survivor sided now and that gens go to fast. Yet, I'll watch these same people sweep 4 or 5 games in a row and then then the next day they post a video about "the reason people are leaving killer" its plain silly.
Winning is great but that isn't as memorable as a hard loss, especially in games you never had a chance at winning. (4 swfs, bnps, Erie of crows, ect..) Makes you forget the last game pretty quickly.
If the claim is that most killers have a 70% kill rate why does both Bhvrs last stats(released before major survivor buffs, around 60%) and nightlight(around 50% ** voluntary sample size) both disagree with you?
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Cages are ok but it's a pretty big macro choice to make use of them or not. Many times giving up the map control of an area for a free save isn't worth the handful of seconds you save between pick up + walk + hook. Am I saying they're worthless? Not at all, but I do think if you cage every single time the option comes up you are hurting yourself in some games
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395826#Comment_3395826
We can't ignore the fact that there shouldn't be a perk that extracts 5-10k BP from another player's account by design without any opportunity for a countermeasure.
That's like saying a swf running hyperfocus, stakeout and slamming gens steals bloodpoints from me because the game ends before I can make use of my killer add-ons.
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Yeah 'hard nerfs" to survivors like what? Taking dead hard from 3 uses to 2? Bringing CoH back to 100%? Was that same style of tweaking used for pop/ruin/thana/CI/eruption/call of brine/overcharge/tinkerer?
In fact can you name me a single killer perk that's been "nerfed" in that same style? Or do they all get completely dumpstered and drop to bottom tier perks?
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@Kius said:
I'm sure they will my prediction it will be like this:
- Deadlock now is removed after a survivor is downed. The perk goes in a 35 second cooldown afterwards.
Just like they did with corrupt intervention.
Close, it will be " after a survivor goes down the perk permenantly disables. We want deadlock to feel powerful and feel that having the perk function this way will help you keep that pressure when you critically need it, if you get a down at any point of the game you dont really need that pressure any more."
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393329#Comment_3393329
Cases that chases end in a few sec happens too, not every chase is over a min long. If I bring scenarios like chases end in 10sec if Killers make no mistake...2 extreme cases happen all the time.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JIX5COWQBLUB/image.png
Oh okay I understand.
If you just hold w and avoid walls you will last longer than 10 second due to the speed boost vs most of the killer cast(exceptions include huntress, blight, billy, spirit, wesker, nurse, any killer with a mobility power or ranged power). There's nothing a killer like trapper can do to down a survivor in 10 seconds unless they are afk/don't understand the movement system of the game/they run into a trap. None of those are things the trapper killer can influence or change and good survivors will not do any of those things.
Are we advocating balancing for survivors who can't understand simple math/push a single key on the keyboard and move their mouse?
By that logic what about a brand new trapper vs swf using green medkits + comms + CoH + a couple of bnps + commodious and hyperfocus stakeout? Or is that not allowed to be balanced for?
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393538#Comment_3393538
And here it's fair to point out my last sentence again
The only time time new PR is weaker then current is if you hardcore tunnel one person so all the people who say it's dead are really showing their colors
For the people that don't use the cheese strat of tunneling this is at the least a side grade and arguably a buff.
If you do the actuall optimal strat of hooking survivors in order of A,B,A,C,A you have the exact same gen damage, you have it earlier and you don't have to lose a scourge hook for the killing hook on A anymore.
Despite popular believe it is possible and sometimes even more beneficial to turn the game into a 3v1 asap without hardcore tunneling
How are you getting a 100% scourge hook proc rate on every down? Camping the hook and forcing trades?
This is like saying autodidact is the best healing perk because on paper what if you get skill checks back to back to back and have full stacks in the theoretical best time? That's not even getting into things like timing of gens(you hook someone and the next highest gen is at 1%. Goodbye token!) Swf on comms calling out hook locations and avoiding those to make it significantly harder to get value, as well as prioritizing sabos.
It's a complete rng perk with at least 2 direct counters available to even non swf (avoid the known scourge hooks + sabo them) with comms making those counters even stronger, the perk then also has a timing component to it that the killer has no say over. Add in edge case scenarios like the only available hook to hook an on death hook survivor mid game and losing one of your four hooks permanently and the perk has yet another scenario where it does not shine.
Now if it wasn't tied to scourge hooks or killers had the ability to move the hooks at will? I would completely agree with you that it's very solid but the RNG piece completely kills it for me at least with everything else considered
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It shouldn't be tied to scourge hooks anymore. Its pretty telling how bad regressions getting when people are pointing to jolt as a great regression perk. We are going to unironically start seeing people say oppression is actually super strong soon.
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@Mystic_Mizu said:
CoH literally no longer allows you to heal yourself. I know killers were hoping for all survivor healing to be completely nerfed into oblivion but the devs actually realized how wrong that would be. Pain Res got buffed, you just can't spam it anymore.
Also, what is the likelihood that every single survivor brings DH every single game... literally none. I don't use it, I've never used it. You'll live.
Dead hard had a 50-80% useage rate from mid to high MMR pre 6.1.0 from BHVRS own numbers. According to nightlite it's sitting at an ~30% useage rate rn with the truth being it's probably significantly higher since nitelite is an optional upload tracker and not actually tracking via an API/all the games. Let's not pretend it's rare to see dead hard.
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Sounds abuseable. I can easily become "the pallet thrower/saver" with a friend on comms and be unhittable/undownable and able to throw pallets to help teammates out and the killer can't do anything about it even if I'm directly in front of his face? What about flashbang and flashlight plays? The killer cannot do anything to me in this theoretical example as long as someone else doesn't get hooked and I don't heal at all/go work on a gen.
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If I could activate a .5 second expose at will after performing a non-lunge attack? sure, I think they'd be comparable then
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All the same. I believe the only advantage to one survivor over another is their ease of being spotted and audio. The hurt/hit boxes are the same dimensions for everyone though.
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I would argue it's a problem of
* Challenges encouraging survivor players to throw out the gate if they want to maximize their challenge gain per game(for killer this is true as well but it's one person's decision impacting themselves vs one person's decision screwing over three people who want to play a normal game as an example)
* An awful teaching system and experience for new players. Who is going to know and understand looping + killer powers + killer perks + survivor perks + map memorization. The game does nothing to help with this. You either care enough about the game to look up vids/forums/content creators and learn these things or you continue to play "in the dark" and are probably a net negative to your team.
* An awful MMR system that puts people with thousands of hours against players they have no business facing, but in the name of fast queue times the game slaps them together(this was true even prior to MMR. Rainbow ranks and screenshots players posted here regularly of them being a green rank vs a red rank team/killer)
* Camping and Tunneling being awful to experience and needing a team to deal with but unable to communicate well. Players just rage quit rather than play multiple matches getting camped if they are unlucky.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3389332#Comment_3389332
Gen regression shouldn't and isn't nearly as necessary as you'd think, especially with how matchmaking is. Also the devs nerfing these perks is taking a step in the right direction, as mentioned previously holding M1 is not a fun thing to do and gen regression exaggerates this. Survivors don't like holding M1 on gens just as much as killers yet its a necessary evil, the reason why this PTB is getting so much backlash is because yes, their complaints were heard in the form of nerfing gen regression, but it gets cancelled out with having to take 50% longer to heal which is also holding M1.
Now onto the subject of healing, addressing it was a step in the right direction. (Especially Medkits) How ever I don't think there was anyone out there complaining about altruistic healing. Self Heals and Medkits absolutely needed addressing but a blanket change like this is not the way to do it. Self Healing and Healing should have their own speeds, not the same.
I definitely think you're 100% right with MMR setting up games that are decided within the first 20 seconds. I guess that raises an interesting question should the game be balanced around a match maker that prioritizes speed over quality? Both sides have absolutely ridiculous outliers at the top end that will absolutely slaughter 99% of the competition they run in to.
I guess my fear/concern is how does the balance work where the survivors aren't holding m1 on something for a long period of time. Either the gens take a long time, healing takes a long time, or chases last an extremely short time to balance 4 good survivors knowing what to do vs most of the killer cast(for the sake of fairness I also want to call out good nurses and blights/other top tier killers vs non swf/non meta survs, same thing where the outcome of the game is probably known before anyone loads in). None of those sound fun for survivors and on the other hand if all of those become fixed for survivors then the game isn't fun for killers and we fall more into the side of "first hook done, 3 gens popped, any damage done has been healed to other survs"
Lastly I do think the idea of moving the stall time from gen regression to healing isn't the best idea, but honestly I can't think of anything that isn't basically the same thing(something that weakens survivors at the start of the game when they are at their strongest but also has the unfortunate quality that it also weakens them after that point when that is no longer needed)
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@Shroompy said:
"You've no right to complain about how hard the game is when you continue to use the least efficient strategies." Im sorry, but this is just wrong.
One of the most common complaints from killers, is that its 'necessary' to camp and tunnel in order to win. Is this true in some scenarios? Absolutely, but in the large majority of cases its not. That doesnt stop those people from complaining, and they have every right to do so.
People want to feel as if they have options that are actually meaningful. Can you imagine just how boring this game would be if all anyone did was play 100% optimally? Or literally any game for that matter? People play games for fun, some want to just sit back and have a good time, not sweat their ass off.
In the case of this PTB, its been a common complaint that holding M1 is just not fun and should be addressed in some way. Wanna know how their complaints were heard? By making them hold M1 even longer. It just feels like a slap in the face.
The root cause of it all is the hate of 3 gens(which I think is totally valid but imo is more of a map thing than a perk thing). What were people expecting to happen? CoB and OC and pain resonance to get dumpstered and nothing else changes?
BHVR has been on a tear nuking every gen regression perk that shows any popularity into dumpster tier. Pop and ruin with 6.1.0 and many of the buffed alternatives that came with 6.1.0 have been also dumpstered at this point in time due to survivor complaints. How exactly are killers supposed to keep up without regression? Base regression is laughably bad at .25 C/sec and now almost all regression perks are getting trashed. BHVR is just playing a shell game of moving that regression time from perks into healing.
You can't have killers with no regression options and also have 8 second solo heals just because it's "fun" for survivors.
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Any major change will result in content creators doomsday posting. Who remembers all the "SBMM/MMR will totally kill DBD!!!" Vids that they made.
The reality is games have almost the exact same skill range as the old "rainbow ranks" world
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3386420#Comment_3386420
No safe unhook is when you unhook the person outside of the Killers TR basically when the killer isn't around.
Where exactly are you getting this info? According to the wiki it states what I said, for an unhook to be safe the unhooked player cannot enter the dying state within 10 seconds. Here's a link to the wiki page : https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Hooks
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@Doomzilla said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385702#Comment_3385702
That’s a fair way to look at it, but the safe unhook action in my mind sort of makes up for it since that won’t effect killers if they hit the survivor off the hook anyway, right? It does say it has to be a “safe” unhook, I imagine
Unless something has changed I believe it's almost impossible to not get a safe unhook since base BT was added. Safe and unsafe are determined by the hooked person going down or not within 10 seconds after getting unhooked. In a world before base BT that situation was possible, in today's world the only way that can happen is if the person is afk/refuses to move and the killer double taps them
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The intent was to thana/ruin/CI/pop/Call of Brine/Overcharge/eruption it. Not give it a slap on the wrist/a sideways buff. Removing exhaustion would be a net buff. You can combo it with any exhaust perk in chase for the tradeoff of only getting 1-2 attempts usually?
That's an insanely strong buff and I imagine it would for sure remain a #1 perk pick if you could get two exhaustion perks in a chase with a limited activation condition
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From my understanding It still uses the p2p style of code where the killers client claiming they hit you = you get hit. The only exceptions to this are pallet drops and dead hard. Those two use the server in the middle to make a determination.