Caiman
Caiman
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- Caiman
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@PrincessCalla said:
What I never understood was nerfing things. Don't nerf things, buff other things. It'll make more perks useful and fun to use along with giving many options for meta instead of just one.
The hard part is doing it without making everything homogenized, however I don't think this game would have this problem. But then again what do I know, I could be wrong.
Buffing everything causes power creep. Power creep causes problems. If they made something as strong as Dead Hard and Circle of Healing, they wouldn't run it instead of Dead Hard, they'd run it with Dead Hard. There's hundreds of perks in this game and if they were all as strong as DH and COH, the game would break apart.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Hit and run is for applying "pressure" to other survivors. The "pressure" is that they will want to heal instead of doing gens, so you spend minimal effort as the killer to injure everyone and then in return you get free gen slowdown for your trouble.
The healing changes are not what you want for hit and run. Heal speeds are now so long that it's more efficient for survivors to complete gens injured instead of trying to heal up. You gain nothing from hit and run with this change and actively lose time because you're handing out free resilience buffs like candy, without a single down for your trouble. Not to mention that if "being healthy" is difficult to maintain, survivors will resort to pre-dropping pallets like it's comp.
Gens will be the only thing worth doing, and since medkits and circle are decimated, and even flashlights are less enticing, toolboxes and BNP are also the only thing worth bringing now too.
Games will be over in 5 minutes, no matter who "wins". Both killers and survivors should be fighting the extra base healing time.
So hit-and-run doesn't work now because healing is too easy, and hit-and-run won't work after the update because healing will be too hard?
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I'll look forward to people running anything different than what we have now. We'll Make It is a fine perk, go ahead and have at it.
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380602#Comment_3380602
I mean it was virtually useless in most scenarios against any halfway decent killer, so let's stop pretending it was just a free 3rd health state. Dead Hard was incredibly easy to counter.
@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380690#Comment_3380690
I mean in most matches against decent killers, it's difficult to get any value out of it in the first place. Any killer complaining about DH is just telling on themselves.
virtually useless in most scenarios
wasn't a free health state
incredibly easy to counter
difficult to get value out of
And yet, everyone uses it. How about you stop pretending? Can a single one of you please defend DH without this dishonesty? Just one of you, please, stop lying through your teeth and admit that Dead Hard was pretty good which is why everyone at high level and low level and everywhere in between loves to run it. I'd be much more willing to take you seriously if you did.
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380674#Comment_3380674
Imagine posting this and not having enough self awareness to realize that the only reason you were hitting so many DH's was because you mindlessly swing into every single survivor that gets into range.
If 0.5 seconds of highly telegraphed, obvious endurance is such a consistent problem for you, I'm sorry, you're being outplayed.
@feffrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380699#Comment_3380699
Why can't you bait it out? Breathe down their neck? Wait for them to make a bigger blunder than dancing on a jungle gym?
To quote an earlier post:
@MudSpit83 said:
“cOmE oN gUyS! dOnT nErF dEaDhArD!!11 iTs A bAd PeRk AlReADy A-a-AnD I-i PlAy BoTh SiDeS aNd SeE nOtHiNg WrOnG wItH iT!!111” - obvious survivor main who abuses braindead meta perks to bully killers.
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@yauniqua said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/369157/dead-hard-is-finally-dead
Welcome to gen rush meta.
We will see Killer players crying a monsoon of tears right before the 7 year anniversary. :)
I love how many of you are making these posts, shaking your fists and crying "YOU'LL BE SORRY! YOU'LL ALL BE SORRY!!" at the killer mains.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380264#Comment_3380264
DH still has same effect. it will not be available as often anymore but its ability to second chance has remained unchanged. They're adding a proper drawback to the perk to limits effectiveness. I wouldn't call it dead but I do think it will be less used as it have less reliability then before. There is notable meaningful choice in choosing exhaustion perks now.
Do you want the strongest possible effect? DH
OR
Do you want the most reliable speed boost? Every other exhaustion perk.
I'm fine with playing around Dead Hard sometimes, I'm just glad it won't be all the time.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380217#Comment_3380217
DH has not been an issue since they nerfed it and this nerf is not needed.
3 genning isn't going anywhere especially when factoring in the new lengthy heal speed and other slowdowns the CoB OC charge nerf is only gonna hurt killers who struggle at defending gens currently, the others killers with high mobility and who can injure survivors easily will be boosted heavy by this new heal speed + slowdowns.
DH has not been an issue since they nerfed it
I find that a little hard to believe, but okay, believe what you want.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
survivor role is dead
by daylight
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380237#Comment_3380237
If it isn't a power like Billys chainsaw where you cannot outplay DH then it absolutely is a skill issue. Even at pallets because survivors cannot throw them while being locked in an animation. Having to outplay DH is simply a part of the game and it has been like this for 6 years now. It's our own fault if we respect it even in the first chase. And DH is fair make no mistake. It gives the survivors an ability to still have something up their sleeves if they are running out of options. Something that requires timing and the killer messing up. Once the killer is in close range the survivor has absolutely no signs of when he has to press the button. Even at pallets you can time it correctly
Having to outplay DH is simply a part of the game and it has been like this for 6 years now.
And that's exactly why it's being changed! Hopefully it stays dead and buried this time.
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So if you are an M1 killer and not being able to outplay DH I'm sorry but that's a skill issue
Anyone can outplay DH with enough experience. The problem is having to outplay it constantly, in every chase, with every survivor, in every match, and sometimes ending up in circumstances where it can't be outplayed at all.
It's not a skill issue. It's a game health issue.
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@occultistcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366761#Comment_3366761
My brother in christ mindgaming pallets and having back and forth interactions with them at loops is called "Looping" otherwise you are literally just running in a straight line away which takes no skill and eventually you're gonna run out of tiles and get hit. The way you just described looping as "running in circles" is hilarious.
Looping is running in circles. Circles are loops. And I don't find it that much fun either.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380156#Comment_3380156
Yesterday it was DH, today its "new DH" and tomorrow its Sprint Burst.
Players in this game simply don't like things being used against them thats facts.
Yesterday? It has been DH for 5 years.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380167#Comment_3380167
Spoiler: You can still stack them and or other slowdowns together to camp 3 gens that problem will not be gone or even noticeably mitigated because of these nerfs.
Stack them together to get 150% regression at max vs. 300% regression at max... Sure. No difference.
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@legacycolt said:
Im definitely gonna rush gens and sprint burst away every time the killer comes 😁
Then the killer kicks the gen, leaves, and comes back 20 seconds later to hit you.
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The way I wanted it to change is by making it so it cannot tank against insta-down powers. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. This would make it the most balanced and fair exhaustion perk in this game.
That wouldn't have really done anything at all. How many killers have insta-down powers? Hillbilly, Leatherface, Myers, Ghost Face, Oni, Skull Merchant. It would change pretty much nothing, while still screwing over every other killer in the game. No, the way BHVR did it is the right call.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379830#Comment_3379830
Autodidact laughs.
Finally, it's Autodidact's time in the meta.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380155#Comment_3380155
Sounds like you didn't read the part where I mention the PR nerf is unnecessary as well. Even the CoB OC nerf isn't needed because those perks did not make matches completely unwinnable, sure they were impactful, but def not in need of nerfing.
Sounds like you only like change when its benefiting your side.
Nah, CoB and OC totally needed nerfing, stacking them together to camp 3-gens was awful.
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Sounds like change is only bad when it's nerfing your side.
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@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380123#Comment_3380123
If you thought genrush was bad before. Just you wait. With healing being a complete waste of time now, I hope you like everyone running repair speed buffs and just genrushing with toolboxes 24/7.
Like they weren't doing that already.
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I've been camped a few times, a few Bubbas, a couple Legions, a Ghost Face once or twice. Tunneled? As much as I can remember, I've only been aggressively hardcore tunneled once, at 5 gens by a Nemesis. I really don't know why, maybe he just really hated Haddie, or he was doing a "kill survivors by your own hands" challenge since he brought a Mori, or maybe he just liked tunneling.
It'd be better if I forgot about it, because I've had lots of games that didn't have notable tunneling or camping at all. I don't believe people who claim it happens "all the time", unless it's an MMR problem. Maybe I'm just not good enough to reach the high levels of MMR where all these awful toxic killer mains live. That's fine by me.
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@Xernoton said:
They finally killed this awful perk. It will sting for a while, but you'll learn to play without it. Especially since the number 1 argument against DH nerfs is that 'it doesn't even work'.
I've never enjoyed using Dead Hard much. I always preferred Lithe or even Balanced Landing, they make chases more fun for me. I hope to get Jonah so I can access Overcome, too.
Plenty of other fish in the sea, plenty of other Exhaustion perks in the fog.
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@Dbdenjoyer675 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379875#Comment_3379875
You really think these changes are gonna make it to live servers we are gonna do what the killers have done for years
Get teabagged?
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Dead Hard is the most fun exhaustion perk in the game that is stronger against more powerful killers while not being too oppressive against weaker ones.
That is a complete and utter lie.
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I feel fantastic about pretty much everything except the Pain Resonance nerf, but I can live with that. I don't even have that perk yet anyway. I'm looking forward to this update, I'm sure there will be tweaks before it goes live that will mitigate some of the more outraged complaints.
But so long as Dead Hard, Circle of Healing, and Medkit Meta all remain nerfed, I'll be content.
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@Beatricks said:
The fact that they killed Dead Hard means that on average there are 12 less health states to go through. Tunneling is going to be EVEN MORE effective if that's somehow possible. 5-10% average killrate increase at least.
The game functioning as it was designed, and not all 4 survivors running Dead Hard, is now considered encouraging tunneling.
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@Pulsar said:
People really love to mald about not being skilled enough to beat DH huh.
I mean, sure, look forward to the omega genrush meta.
People could beat Dead Hard. It just wasn't fun having to beat it so many times for so many matches for so many years. Pretending it's a skill issue is just a weak and pathetic attempt at a "gotcha".
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Why are you nerfing a already bad perk?
Why do so many survivors run a bad perk?
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@MegaFreeman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379821#Comment_3379821
Apparently because telling you 3 different times that getting safe unhook doesn't give the savior dead hard, I gotta draw it for you
If you get downed off hook in less than 10 seconds even after the killer swung through the Endurance, you are either extremely unlucky or you literally stood still.
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@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379852#Comment_3379852
I mean survivor, nonetheless point still stands. You really think survivors are gonna wanna play this game if every update we get is a nerf to us?? seriously this game is miserable for survivors and it has been for months.
Miserable for months, but survivors are still playing like they always have.
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I'm fine with the genrush meta if everyone survivor is going to be way easier to down thanks to the loss of Forever Dead Hard.
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When killers queue times are long bc no one wants to play killer its gonna be real funny
Did you mean to type survivor there? If so, that's funny, because everyone said that back in 6.1 and yet here we are.
Yeah, killers got a bunch of buffs, and totally didn't lose 3 potent gen-regression perks. Those small number tweaks on add-ons are gonna make Pig so OP! Wraith not being gimped by flashlights will make him S++ tier! And no one will be safe now that Gearhead has been buffed!
I also love how every single survivor nerf or killer buff is somehow "promoting camping/tunneling". Trapper sets his traps 3% faster? Promotes camping! Add an extra second to Bitter Murmur's aura read? Promotes tunneling!
And if Circle of Healing is "useless" without the self-heal then that says a lot about why people used it in the first place.
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I can take all the other changes in the game, but nerfing med kits and COH at the same time is really overkill. It should have been only one of them.
Nah, they both deserved it, and good riddance.
And again, camping, tunneling, and 3-gen holders are not even been addressed.
Yeah, it's not like they nerfed the two perks that made 3-gens very easy to hold. That totally didn't happen at all.
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@MegaFreeman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379789#Comment_3379789
I literally explained what's changed like 3 different times, do I need to draw it for you to make it simpler?
All I'm hearing is "killers will tunnel to deny Dead Hard" which applies to literally everything else a survivor can do so this change doesn't make a difference. They would have been tunneled Dead Hard or not, DH never did anything to discourage tunneling, nobody thought "I'm not going to hit that survivor because they might have Dead Hard!"
Go ahead and draw something if you want to, though.
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
People are claiming that Dead Hard and Circle of Healing weren't issues. Honestly, what game were you playing?
No one ever defended these perks without saying "they aren't that strong" and "it's not a big deal" and "it has counterplay". Yet they ran these supposedly not that good perks every game. I've gotten sick of the dishonesty.
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@MegaFreeman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379726#Comment_3379726
Oh honey that's a complete new sentence, nobody here is talking about that. Make your own forum thread about it. This is about Dead Hard
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379764#Comment_3379764
Unlike most of the others, Dead Hard is a chase perk and tunnelling affects the WHOLE team, not just the victim
Unlike most of the others, Dead Hard is a chase perk and tunnelling affects the WHOLE team, not just the victim
Okay? So the tunneling killer hits the survivor off hook, which puts them in Deep Wounds due to the unhook Endurance, which... already means they can't Dead Hard. So what's changed?
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@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379758#Comment_3379758
it isn't though. They nerfed survivor and buffed the entire basekit only nerfing a few slowdowns...
"only nerfing a few slowdowns" Yeah, the gen regression perks that enabled 3-gen playstyles, which everyone hates last I checked. Also Pain Res which was one of the more effective regression perks. Now killers can't camp as effectively and survivors can't heal as easily as breathing and use Dead Hard every chase.
It's fair.
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@MegaFreeman said:
Then how are people suppose to unlock Dead Hard if tunneling killers keep tunneling? How is it healthy for the have tunneling a survivor be an affecting counter to perks?
Tunneling a survivor is an effective counter to like 90% of the perks in the game. It's not an argument.
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@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/369060/survivor-mains-flooding-social-media
As they should.. And I support it because it isn't fair.
It's totally fair.
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@NightWolfsFury said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379721#Comment_3379721
This may also enforce gen rushing even more, though. If survivors aren't running perks to make healing easier to provide, such as Empathy, Empathic Connection, Botany, etc., players just *won't heal*. They will instead be an M1 sl**, making the game even more unbearable for both killers and survivors alike.
If they don't heal, that just makes it easier for a killer to come along and whack them. Which will now be easier thanks to the Dead Hard nerf.
If they ignore all healing and genrush, then it's up to the killer to put them down for it.
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You know there's healing perks other than Circle of Healing, maybe try them out sometime.
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But you’re constantly nerfing the survivors more than the killers
So those nerfs to Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Pain Res don't exist. And that survivor HUD update didn't happen. And Eruption was never nerfed.
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90 seconds is really enough. The problem is all the ways survivors circumvent those 90 seconds. Though since they can't heal so quickly anymore, those 90 seconds might be more valuable now.
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@Laurie268 said:
They really think people will still play survivor after these changes lmao. Killrate will rise to 80%+ and good killers will reach a killrate of nearly 100%.
There’s nothing fun in this game left for survivors to enjoy and I will be uninstalling when the update hits too. Most people won’t put up with being a punching bag for a killer that finally gets to experience their power trip fantasy
That's what people said after Decisive Strike was nerfed. Yet here we are.
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@MegaFreeman said:
Does it matter tho? If it doesn't block a hit then you'll get downed 3 second later and then hooked.
Regardless, it still doesn't change the fact that this perk encourages tunnelling because if you tunnelled the first player out of the game, then nobody will ever get Dead Hard
I think tunneling killers will continue tunneling for the reasons they always have, a Dead Hard nerf isn't going to make that noticeably worse.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
Imagine trying to heal someone after they're unhooked. With healing speeds being slower now, the killer most likely get to unterrupt and tunnel the unhooked person even easier than before. Imagine having to spend AGES to heal. Yes, medkits needed nerfs. So did CoH. But nerfing base healing speeds?? You're gonna make this game so unfun to play as. Who wants to spend ages healing and working on gens?
There's this perk named We'll Make It that might be of interest to you.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
If a survivor can get value from DH several times in a match you're just a bad killer. All the killer crybabies in this forum killing the game. DH was popular because it was fun, had more interaction/skill than sprint burst, lithe etc.
So since it's fun it must be nerfed AGAIN. They just nerfed many other meta survivor perks and buffed all of killer basekit. Killers have just became lazy crybabies since the meta shakeup. And healing now no thanks, time to switch games RIP DBD.
Calling other people crybabies isn't a good look for you right now.
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@MegaFreeman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379337#Comment_3379337
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379466#Comment_3379466
Have yall two read a single word the OP said or did you just come here to blindly defend the nerf? Like Caiman you completely missed the point of the tunnelling statement. The tunnelling issue is the same issue PTB Background Player had
I read the OP, I just think it's hilariously wrong. They say Sprint Burst is better than Dead Hard but only bad players will switch to it. They say Sprint Burst is better than Dead Hard and Dead Hard has lots of counterplay but say good players will still use it effectively to punish killers. They constantly flip-flop on how good/bad Dead Hard is to claim this nerf is objectively bad, it's so contradictory that it doesn't mean anything at all. And like a lot of nerfs, they throw in "this encourages tunneling/camping/toxicity/blahblahblah because reasons".
I wish people could defend Dead Hard without lying about how "bad" it is.
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Please playtest your game and think critically about it instead of listening to biased voices on the community crying 24/7 they got outplayed
Ironic.
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@Peachblow said:
The healing/med-kit nerf is silly and rather unnecessary. Smart killers will stay on survivors that have a med-kit equipped because they should know the moment they let go of them, they're going to heal up. Too many times I see unskilled killers disengaging chase with a med-kit equipped survivor. There was nothing wrong with healing, it's just an unncessary nerf for bad killers who need to have their hand held throughout the entire game.
It was absolutely necessary, and there was everything wrong with healing.
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Self-Care should be changed to increase self-healing speed with medkits now that it's less of an intrinsic part of medkits themselves.