ByeByeQ
ByeByeQ
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For the most part I agree.
- Archive challenges are bad for individual matches.
- When reading the challenges in the very first tome I recognized this. Survivors often have to hinder themselves or outright throw games trying to get many of these challenges done. Many of them almost rely on help from the killer. They encourage abnormal and sub-optimal gameplay.
- Archive challenges might be good for the game overall.
- They encourage people to play the game, ie completionists.
- They encourage people to try perks, play styles and killers they might not otherwise try.
- They give people a place to bank bloodpoints for later, such as for PTB or upcoming characters.
After patch 6.1.0 I have almost stopped playing SoloQ altogether unless there is an archive challenge. I'm planning on playing in survivor again in 10 days when page 4 drops. Hopefully I do well enough to push my survivor grade into Iri. I used to really enjoy playing SoloQ.
- Archive challenges are bad for individual matches.
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If the survivors bring 2 or more flans, cakes or BPSes into the game their chances for survival in my games rise considerably.
There are other situations as well. I don't need to kill to feel like I've won.
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If they added an alternate Rin Yamaoka to the game as survivor and many of her cosmetics also cross over that'd be amazing any I'd be all for it.
They could easily make a few pesos off of having auric cell-only cosmetics that applied to both Spirit and Rin.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154762#Comment_3154762
Are you being disingenuous on purpose or did you forget she moves at 96.25% and her blinks require charge-up? If she's slower than survivor, it's literally just worse Blight. If she moves at same/faster, then it becomes more oppressive Nemesis that just walks to pallet/window and then blinks.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154757#Comment_3154757
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154770#Comment_3154770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig_iQ5S-ABA 5:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjfG_sLfQg 7:47
Quick question, are you two being serious or not? Cause I'm slow at picking up on sarcasm. Cause if not, this is getting a bit embarrassing.
The embarrassing part is you using that clip like it was a clean and clear cut example of an open space dodge on a skilled Nurse. It clearly was not.
I'm not going to bother looking at more embarrassing examples from you.
Have a nice day. 🙋♂️
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@sadakiyo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154742#Comment_3154742
a lot of killers can land a hit in the open field thanks to their abilities
When talking about in the open for Nurse it doesn't actually mean in the open. It means a place where a survivor can't break line of sight. Take the area in the middle of the Blood Lodge for example where there are a lot of low barriers that many killers can't get a hit over or around. And even the killers that can get a hit in those spots they often can't do it as quickly as a Nurse can.
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154742#Comment_3154742
Ah yes, clearly the game-changing firecracker that somehow saved Ace from being hit by the chain blink, for which he was in LoS for the entirety of charge up and travel time. But that's inconvenient, so it doesn't count as evidence I suppose.
This is embarrassing. Can you like, at least try to make an actual argument?
At 5 seconds in that clip Ace clearly makes distance behind the tree using it as an LoS blocker while the Nurse is traveling on her first blink. Boom headshot.
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Some time between long after this game is dead and never.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154682#Comment_3154682
The first blink was against a single narrow tree. The chain blink was against zero LoS break at all. And refer back to the Wikipedia article, thanks.
You brought up an example twitch clip from a comp Ace who also used a firecracker while not being in the open (Ace made distance behind that tree while unseen) being able to evade 1 attack from a Nurse as an argument against a Nurse almost always being able to land a hit in the open against a survivor.
Your argument is invalid. No true Scotsman doesn't apply here either.
You're just wrong. Again.
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It doesn't stack.
If the game is coded correctly if you cleanse a Hex after a dull, or vice versa, you should get the 16%.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3154514#Comment_3154514
I would probably done that if I was not doing tome. But for many killer mains that seems to be so terrible crime I just need to do it one more time gotta hope I get killer with common sense who understand you don't always need to 4K and it just better that the match end eventually. I almost never slug for 4K only if I see the another survivor close then I go after him.
Using the tome as an excuse is just not applicable here. You could have did the gens to bait her to move from the hatch so you could do your tome.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3152415#Comment_3152415
Non-camping killers... yet the killer is disrupting the rescue? That sounds like he was camping to me if he was in range to disrupt the rescue.
Rescuer takes chase but still got within 6m of the hooked survivor? If they had to go in the direction of the hooked survivor, the killer had to be camping to force that scenario.
Little late getting the rescue... at 6m to activate? That is 1.5s of survivor running at 4m/s, and 3s of unhooking. That buys you 4.5s so that turns 59s rescues into 63.5s rescues.
Each example of a "non-camping killer" was actually a killer camping, and late to the rescue gives you a whopping four and a half seconds. I'm sorry, but your complaints have to be pretending in falsehoods in order to prevent nerfing camping.
Edit: To be fair, I will allow a survivor being near hook when their ally is being hooked changing the hook to a 90s hook being an abuse case scenario, which could also be fixed by needing at least 10s on hook before it can be used.
Sounding like and being are 2 different things.
How about this scenario: The killer hooked a survivor and went out on a gen patrol. He found 2 gens with no progress and a 3rd gen with progress and kicked it but couldn't find Spine Chill Claudette. At that moment he decides to return to the hook (or even spots the rescuer running) to see if he can acquire a target (the rescuer) or disrupt a last second save and force Stage 2 on the hooked survivor.
Does that still sound like camping to you?
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I generally give No Mithers at least one chance to pick themselves up.
If they appear to be perkless aside from No Mither for the challenge I'll let them go.
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I think lots of players thought he was fun to VS was because of novelty.
Once the novelty wears off and everyone has heard his voice lines dozens of times, will they still consider him fun to VS?
Only time will tell.
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You had Adrenaline, Distortion and Sole Survivor. You were built for this situation.
Step 1: 99 a gen.
Step 2: Finish a different gen.
Step 3: Pop the 99'd gen.
Step 4: ...
Step 5: Profit.
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Windows of Opportunity + Dead Hard + Resilience is still really good for a nice long chase.
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After a vaccine chest has been opened and had the vaccine taken, the survivor should be able to rummage the chest and find a baton or a nightstick which could be used to beat down zombies. If they hit Nemo with it or if Nemo hits them with either a tentacle or an M1 the stick is broken and the survivor drops it and it is gone forever. If a zombie hits them the drop they stick but it can be picked up.
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If that's the saddest moment of your life, you must live a very blessed life.
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I like a lot of these ideas. But they might be a bit drastic, at least for now.
I don't think the Nurse should ever walk though, I don't think her blink would look right. She could just float lower in Last Breath than she does in Final Breath.
I hope BHVR does tweaks like making her attacks from 2nd or 3rd blinks special attacks while her 1st blink still counts as a basic attack. Then she could still see value from Starstruck and Haunted Ground that she could never see with your rework.
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Very soon one of the best pieces of art in RPD will not be able to be enjoyed up close in game.
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Might as well have 2 Danny Glovers in DbD. 😋
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I think the splinter offerings are best left gone.
Instead they should just give all new players 3 free tries with every killer they don't own.
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Did you make that image or did you just find it somewhere?
It's mostly good.
Anxious Grasp: This is better than Awakened Awareness as she doesn't even have to pick up and drop to use it. Granted it's only a 16 meter range but I don't think this addon should be in the game.
Dark Cincture: This yellow addon would easily be her strongest and most used addon. I think at 10% it would make her blink speed even faster than the old range addons stacked used to. Is this a bad copy of a Huntress hatchet flight speed addon? Written words cannot convey the disdain I have for this suggestion.
Dull Bracelet: Another disgustingly strong yellow addon. A Nurse could play with this and go on auto-pilot. 1st blink to within 16 meters of a survivor and 2nd blink in whatever direction this addon makes her face. This addon would be straight broken with the Torn Bookmark that this rework appears to leave unchanged.
I think the Nurse could do with more meme addons than other killers.
Imagine something like the Dark Cincture making her snake on her way to the blink target rather than just travel in a straight line, but still cover the distance in the same amount of time. No advantage but it sure would look cool, and maybe even sound cooler too.
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Reassurance is still a good perk against non-camping killers.
If the killer is returning to the hook to disrupt the rescue, Reassurance helps defuse the situation somewhat. The rescuer reassures the hooked and takes chase and someone else can get the rescue before the one on the hook might not got Stage 2 or die before being rescued.
What if you're a little late getting the rescue? Reassurance can save a hook state there too.
I agree with the changes. Nothing should be able to work indefinitely in DbD.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3152322#Comment_3152322
Its blunt, not rude.
The OP asked:
What would you do?
He didn't ask for your opinion on hi suggestion. You ignored his question and told him what you thought in a very crass way.
When you talk about an idea you can be blunt and it's not rude. You didn't talk about his idea at all and just insulted him. That's rude.
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My go to build is Agitation, Pain Resonance, Save the Best for Last and Thrilling Tremors.
Oh you mean survivor? My go to build on survivor is to play killer.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/342973/how-would-you-nerf-balance-nurse
What i think is that you have no idea what you are talking about and it shows. Nurse needs some nerfs but people like you should stay far away from it.
That's rather rude, don't you think? Yes it is a bad idea, but you don't have to be so condescending about it.
I think they should start with making attacks from the Nurse's 2nd or later blinks into special attacks. It's a simple tweak that would have a huge impact on her being able to use Star Struck and Haunted Grounds so oppressively. It could even make her fun to play against again. "If I can dodge the first blink, maybe I'll have a chance!"
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The problem always has been:
The devs are money sided.
BHVR cares more about steady income with their chapter releases every 3 months. They don't really care about anything else really and it shows. They're doing the absolute bare minimum to keep DbD alive and the money rolling in. Money that they appear not to reinvest.
If DbD was actually a good game and not just an addictive one and the Devs were passionate about making the game better there would be 100k people playing the game average all the time. If they reinvested in DbD to fix some of its most glaring issues they would easily see a great return on that investment, and it would add a lot more longevity to the game. Player retention wouldn't be an issue.
DbD should easily be a massive juggernaut peaking at 250k players with the Wesker release.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150657#Comment_3150657
Fixing maps and weak killers? Nurse being strong as hell shouldn't be a priority. Buffing killers like trickster, fine tuning killers like pinhead, and reworking killers like freddy should be more important. The more killers we have that are made to be stronger and also more fun for everyone would have a better impact than just nerfing nurse; because she is not who you will face most games.
Then you have maps. Right now, they are absolutely trash, mainly for killers. Just look at the game, it has not been touched a single time since it got reworked and it is busted af.
I really think that focusing more on those two issues would be the best possible thing for dbd rn.
If Nurse wasn't so strong, a lot of killer perks could be buffed and that would buff all killers.
If Nurse wasn't so strong, maps wouldn't all have to be all be large and flat and that would again be a buff to all killers. We agree on maps, but Nurse is one of the factors... but it's probably more just BHVR ineptness to blame.
I do think other killers need tuning, but I want Nurse nerfed first. She's been at the top already for a looong time, over 6 years in fact.
@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3150657#Comment_3150657
You feel like coming up with an excuse for why they've never addressed her or changed her when they buffed 17 perks and released 40 perks that are okay, great, or amazing for her?
Or why killers like Legion/Plague/Spirit/etc who are the likely reasons behind nerfs to things like Thanatophobia/Stridor/etc aren't holding back perk design because they got one single perk nerfed, much like how Nurse has only ever been hinted at being the reason for nerfing a single perk?
Or any actual evidence whatsoever for her holding back map design?
Or is that too inconvenient?
You trot out that 17 out of 40 in a lot of threads don't you? You went to the 6.1.0 patch page, counted the perks and call them all buffs. They're not all buffs! Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Pop, BBQ and NOED all are on that list receiving nerfs.
None of those perks are disproportionately more powerful on Nurse. How do you know as they were making the changes they didn't ask "Would this be busted on Nurse?" Awakened Awareness is disproportionately more powerful on Nurse. Many Nurses will still be able to drop Infectious Fright and slot AA in and see better results.
Evidence? Well, Midwich has the highest kill rate in the Game and it's easily the Nurse's best map. BHVR, after seeing the stats, have in their infinite wisdom decided to only give us massive one floor maps ever since.
I found it hard not to reply with the same level if not more snark than you did. But I get it. You're scared for your main. As you should be.
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@Yords said:
As much as i hate going against nurse, and think that she should be changed, I think that should hold off for a looong time. There are much more important things yet to be fixed.
Nurse is holding back both perk design and map design, all by herself. That can't wait a "looong" time.
Seriously what's so much more important?
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Nice one @threeQuinn.
If such an epic Nurse main is calling for her to be nerfed, it should carry some weight.
I also agree with those changes.
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Certain killer mains won't like it.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149741#Comment_3149741
First, if you're caught in a dead zone, then we can complain how Slinger or Huntress can take advantage of it, even Spirit... Second, she can only blink so far and she's going to always be in a straight line... there you have, a good counter to her blinking skills.... repeat until you have reached a place where you can break LoS... If you, got caught in a dead zone and you don't know how to survive until you're out in a "safer zone" then that's up to you being unable to learn a little strategy.
*yawn* You're just trotting out that old "get good against her" argument. It all depends on how good the Nurse is and not really how good the survivor is. If she's good enough and you're caught out, you can make it harder for her but most often you're still just pooched.
In the open vs Nurse is basically anywhere you can't break LoS with her. You can't complain about Huntress and Slinger because many of these spots have low obstacles a survivor can take cover from projectiles behind. They can't take cover when the projectile is the Nurse and she can blink through stuff.
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She should get a refund if possible. :P
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Surviving a match isn't everything.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149712#Comment_3149712
you didn't answer my question what evidence do you need a killer is OP.
If a Killer is able to win against higher skilled opponents that are running the best Perks/Items/Add-Ons possible. That's what makes a Killer OP.
2.5/3.5s fatigue/2.7s cooldown + 3s pickup = 22/26/22.8m a Survivor starting literally right beside the Killer can run away before the pickup even finishes. As in, out of the 20m.
Not my math, it's @SuzuKR
Most of that math isn't applicable. The important part is the 3s pickup. At that point the the Claudette hiding in the bush realizes the Nurse has Starstruck. "Oh #########, I better not get seen." The she sees the Nurse drop. At that point she (hopefully) starts running and the Nurse can still blink right on top of her.
The Nurse usually only has to do this once to win the game too. At this point she has her snowball halfway down the hill.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3149553#Comment_3149553
Yes, one single perk that was bad on everyone including Nurse getting nerfed for some reason that alluded to Nurse and other killers (because of the pluralized description) means Nurse is holding back balance.
But I suppose it would be inconvenient to acknowledge the 17 perk buffs and 40 perk releases to perks that are okay, great, or insane for Nurse. Also other perks nerfed due to other killers.
Congratulations.
One perk that was bad on everyone else and good for Nurse... is now almost unusable on everyone else and is still useful on Nurse.
Keep clutching your pearl.
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@Saitamfed said:
What about "learn to play against nurse" instead?
Same tired old argument.
If a good Nurse catches and you have nothing to break line of sight with, you're pooched. Even if you know how to play against her.
While this can be true for more killers than just Nurse, the Nurse can consistently get that hit and get that down faster than any other killer.
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You've correctly discouraged the behavior you don't want, now you need to encourage the behavior you do want.
This. Incentives matter.
BBQ & Chili used to be the best perk in the game for survivors. Why? Because it usually gives the killer a target far from the hook to pursue and it had a great bonus to encourage killers to run it. It also gave them another objective in the game; to get 4 stacks.
It certainly didn't eliminate camping and tunneling. But from the complaints we're hearing now, it certainly seems that old BBQ helped reduce camping and tunneling.
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:)
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Yeah this would be busted.
I just want to see her 2nd blink and beyond be special attacks.
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@Karth said:
Why do you guys all of a sudden started (proxy)camping and tunneling so much more during the latest patch? Is it strategy? Is it easy? Is it fun?
I just try to understand why, I never tunnel when I'm playing killer and I cannot complain at my killrates at all.
EDIT: cept for those annoying clicky clickys that just ask for it to get tunneled out of the game
For me it has to do with reliable hooking for information perks being nerfed.
BBQ and Chili: With it losing its bonus and stacks, it now finds no place in my builds anymore.
Pain Resonance: Before 6.1.0 it gave a notification on the affected generator.
With this information immediately after hooking a survivor I would have usually have a clear target after hooking a survivor; either a survivor over 40m away, the generator with the most progress or both when I ran both.
Without this information I generally don't have perfect information to use after hooking a survivor. So I patrol nearby gens in hopes of finding a target and if I don't find one I am more likely to proxy the hook or try to intercept a rescuer.
I find myself tunneling more than before because thanks again to the BBQ nerf. I don't have to be concerned about BBQ stacks so a target I might have pursued earlier in a match get that stack, I often choose to save them for later. Generally 1 or 2 people are dead before the best looper on the team gets a chance waste my time now. I still don't hard tunnel often unless there's only 1 or 2 gens left they're not defendable.
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Nurse doesn't just hold back perk design.
She also holds back map design.
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If they completely removed it? No.
If they made it conditional so at least one other survivor is on the ground or hooked? Yes.
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I'm going to see if I can win a copy off a Fog Whisperer. If I fail at that, I'll probably wait a year for the DLC to go 50% off.
It's not that I can't afford it. It's just that I'm voting with my wallet and giving BHVR as little money as I can.
I should be able to pick up Pinhead soon.
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@Adjatha said:
Bad news:
The players currently playing DbD as survivors will never accept any greater complexity.
Look at old Undying: take out 2-5 totems? An impossible task (apparently), so Undying nerfed to a flat 2.
Look at Pinhead: One survivor has to go to the highlighted box once every 90 seconds. An impossible task (if the bevvy of complaints is to be believed).
I mean heck: people complain about Pig's bear traps, and she's in the bottom five of worst killers in the game.
They'll have to make a new game (or DbD 2) with the more complex gameplay from the start because there is a zero percent chance current survivors will tolerate anything that makes the "click M1 on gen, repeat, leave" snoozefest more difficult or dynamic.
Old Undying is a really bad example. It gave far too much value. Especially when paired with Old Ruin.
The fact that Undying is still a very good perk now is a testament to how strong it was back then.
Could you imagine how Old Undying would pair with Pentimento now, it would be truly brutal.
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I only have one question:
Why not?
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147949#Comment_3147949
they said 75%,not 50%.
I know this is a decent band-aid but I will continue to advocate for a better change to the progression system until they implement it.
Still with these changes... It's time for you to start a new thread. :)
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@kizuati said:
August 23rd update addressed at the bottom of the post now. As previously stated,the issue is still not fixed.
While your OP does contain many good ideas, this is BHVR. We knew they'd come up with a quick band-aid fix.
However, this is a very good band-aid!
It does indirectly address one thing in the OP:
Most of the current BP offerings are quite literally not worth their Bloodweb prices. We need to remove all of the yellow and brown per-category offerings and bring the green ones to 150% bonus BPs.
Sealed Envelopes & Hollow Shells should be removed and replaced with a new version of the Bound Envelope which is available to both Killers & Survivors. It will now bring a 33% increase to everyone's BP gains. It's rarity will be reduced to Uncommon.
With their new reduced prices, they're not as bad anymore. They might still not be "good" but these offerings are really just low value bloodweb filler anyways.
I think this price reduction actually does reduce the grind from what it was before 6.1.0. Still not the 50% they said but at least we can see a net reduction in the grind now. Plus it's very convenient now that ~1 mil BP will = 1 level of prestige.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3147679#Comment_3147679
Ah then you get rekt by otr. Proper tunneling is done by hitting them as they get off the hook, you dirty tunneler <3
*Bubba revs chainsaw even if you're injured*
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@HelloYou said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146726#Comment_3146726
That's not just a good team. That is basically the best DbD team to ever play in public matches and easily in the top 0.01% of teams. Seriously can you even find another team that use a minimap, call out everything and sweat that hard in public matches?
I reversed the situation, where instead of the best SWF, it is the best Nurse.
That's not just a good Nurse. That is basically the best DbD Nurse to ever play in public matches and easily in the top 0.01% of Nurses. Seriously can you even find another Nurse that play in high level comp and sweat that hard in public matches?
Doesn't matter if currently they still play or not since the vid is when they used to play. Also that Nurse doesn't magically become fodder just because her team is gone.
Old vid true, but same Nurse as today (difference is bugs). but all is compensated due to the lack of communication, high ping and not the whole survivors sweating their balls off, seems as a reasonable trade off tbh. Also even at that time, plebs were crying bout Nurse so :x.
I was trying to make the point that calling Hens' team merely "good" was disingenuous. Your average "good" team in DbD public matches doesn't use a minimap and most of the time aren't even a full SWF. Your average "good" team in DbD gets crushed by your average "good" Nurse.
I still don't understand what point you're trying to make.
@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146909#Comment_3146909
SWF and high level survivors are a separate issue, not sure why you are bringing them up.
But the solution to SWF vs solo is a simple one. Create a separate queue that balances things differently. CS:GO has a mode where you get more money, and free armor each round which is distinctly different than the standard mode. DotA 2 has turbo mode which makes games faster and is distinctly different than the standard game. League of Legends, when they used to have 3v3 and dominion actually balanced the game differently, such that character abilities actually behaved differently in those modes if they were too overpowered or underpowered. They actually tweaked numbers and abilities to change them depending on the mode you play.
Do the same for SWF and solo. There is one queue for solo, which has faster gens, maybe Hex perks work like NOED, maybe there are more pallets. etc. Then have the SWF queue, where survivors maybe only get 2 perks each instead of 4, or the killer gets 6 perks, or the killer moves a bit faster, or gens are 2 minutes now, or there are less pallets. etc.
You said:
Just because high level survivors aren't common doesn't mean they shouldn't be nerfed.
I responded to it.
I would love to see more modes in DbD as you suggest like separate modes for SWF and SoloQ. I even imagine a 2+2 mode which could be pretty neat.
Alas, that solution can't be that simple. After all, they still haven't implemented anything like it and it's been over 6 years.