Blueberry
Blueberry
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first main: Twins
current main: Zarina and Onryo (Dredge/Ghostface)
fav map: Midwhich
fav perk: Iron Will
fav item: Flashlight
fav chapter: Dredge
how many p100s?: Onryo (I typically spread across lots of characters, not pump into singles)
hours: ~11,000
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I'd be closer to buffing than nerfing them. Good players manage the Twins easily. They typically do well because most people don't understand their counter play. They require you to play the opposite of what you would do against most killers.
-Stick with a buddy. Even if they down someone that gets you a kick on Victor and a lot of the time the pick up on the downed player before she can even get there.
-Slow the game down and always take the time to heal. Don't greed gens while injured like you would against most killers. Her win condition is multiple slugs from everyone being injured. Being full health not only prevents this but also lets you take her power hostage.
-Use lockers. You'd be surprised how often she's too far to actually punish this as well as it also messing up their slug plays.
That's basically it. If y'all are running healing or anti slug perks or medkits this all counters them even more immensely.
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P100 Onryo here.
Firstly, she's had a bug since her last rework ages ago where her intermittent invisible is not lasting even close to how long it's supposed to, so that needs fixing first. It's been reported by me in bugs for a very long time and seems to be ignored.
One of her biggest issues is that there's no downsize or negative to taking tapes. You could do passive Condemn as an option. I personally preferred the system where hits would destroy tapes and give Condemn instead though. Both would work but the second option only rewards Onryo's who play well instead of being free. Also it gives her counter play to tapes. Currently other than a hook you have no counter play to tape drop offs and they can literally insert it in your face. Such bad design.
^^ That right there is her main issue and if we did nothing else, that's what she needs.
Now smaller but still important issues:
There should be zero slow down while Manifesting. If Demanifested had really that much of a benefit or she had a speed boost like Wraith this slow down would make sense, but she doesn't. The slow down just isn't warranted for how pitiful it is.
Remove the lullaby while Demanifested. What is the point of being Undetectable when it tells them where you're at anyway? It doesn't. Illogical. It's a stealth that doesn't stealth you. You aren't moving faster while Demanifest, getting a speed burst coming out, and it has a cast to Manifest for them to have time to react. If you're going to keep it, at least make it only visible at like very high stacks of Condemn when they're in high danger. Currently it doesn't serve its intended purpose. Bad design.
Remove the global sound queue that tells them when you teleport. This defeats the entire point of having skill and watching your surroundings. You can't mind game with teleport mid chase if it telegraphs every single bit of it to the other player.
Addon Issues:
She has quite a few addons that were built around her old kit that weren't updated after her rework so they make no sense.
Iridescent Videotape - So, so bad. I'd rather this actually be useful but if we're going for meme game play changes reduce TV turn on time significantly and make all TV auras not shown to survivors when using this. Since they can no longer gain Condemn, this shouldn't matter.
Telephone - 3% Hindered is utterly irrelevant and for only 3 seconds. Needs much better numbers to matter. Higher slow, longer duration.
Tape Editing Deck - No longer start them with a tape and now also shows their auras when turning off TVs. This is the noob trap addon that people think is good, but is actually very bad. Starting them with a tape is very bad. It helps them to immediately start shutting TVs off. Currently your main goal is to prevent them from getting a tape in the first place because right now we have zero counter play once they get a tape.
Distorted Photo - Remove the "witness" part. Makes it useless.
Ring Drawing - This literally should have been in her base kit, what are we doing. If we add tape destruction on hit this becomes irrelevant but if we aren't adding that, this is absolutely necessary.
All of the aura around turned on TV addons - This needs to be "turned off" TVs. If you are keeping lots of TVs on you are playing bad and if you're playing good this is doing like nothing. Lose/Lose. Also the ranges are way too short. Bump the range around turned off TVs by like 50%.
Remote Control - Alright this is one of her best addons. Not running this makes you significantly weaker. I honestly feel like this should just be base kit because no matter what other addons get as far as changes this should never leave your preset, it's basically required if you want the best chance at winning.
In general her kill rate is very artificially inflated from people ignoring her mechanics or just not knowing what to do. It makes her look a lot better than she actually is. This is why her kill rate is high but basically everyone puts her in garbage tier.
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Just remove the ability to remove yourself on hook unless a perk is in play, problem solved.
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I didn’t even realize they didn’t like how it currently works. No idea if this is supposed to be a buff or a nerf. Never heard them saying anything about it being too good/bad or what. This will affect killers like Legion a lot depending what it is.
I always wanted it to have a Defeaned status on it so that people wouldn’t mend until they knew they were safe since this adds a mind game of if the killer is doubling back.
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His old kit had identity and uniqueness. I hope they bring the old kit with tweaks. Add Incapacitated status to the dream transition, keep his gen teleport, remove all the dream snare/pallet stuff, it’s totally just copies from other killers and adds nothing unique. If you want to keep one of them just make the dream pallets being added a passive that happens periodically and not an active thing. The manual putting survivors to sleep, unable to injure them till asleep, auras of asleep survivors outside a certain range and him being completely invisible to awake survivors was so unique and what we need back. His old kit had a solid core that only needed small tweaks.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843659#Comment_3843659
How can you consider anything you are involved in as a normal conversation when you are nothing but dismissive? Again, I say I am so happy you do not encounter slugging like so many other people do, that is great for you however for those of us that do, its ridiculous. But yet I see you are the first person to comment on any post about slugging talking about it not being a problem but if you have to comment on that many posts about slugging, then clearly there is a problem somewhere whether you want to see it or not.
So, again, just because it doesnt happen to you does not mean it does not happen.
How is it “so many posts” and “always first to comment” when it has literally only been 2 posts on sluggin as well as me not even close to first to comment on either? This is a misrepresentation and not accurate at all. Also, how does me commenting on two slugging posts prove it’s an issue? That makes no sense.
You keep repeating this “it doesn’t happen to me so it doesn’t happen”, which is another mischaracterization of what I’ve said. What I said was it does not happen a statistically relevant amount of times to matter. Those are different statements.
Might as well just agree to disagree. This is going no where.
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thanks :)
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843369#Comment_3843369
The problem is that the hatch exists for a reason, and slugging to prevent the hatch spawning is circumventing that mechanic.
Getting the hatch might not involve "skill" but it is still a fair shot, it's pretty much a 50/50 chance, slightly in the killers favour. (Unless it's a high mobility killer then it's heavily in the killers favour)
Slugging the third survivor doesn't require skill either, nor is it a fair chance, it is a stalling tactic to guarantee a 4K when you've so far only earned a 3K.
Fundamentally disagree.
It is intended mechanic not circumventing.
Slugging does require skill, you had to outplay them to down in the first place. It also does not guarantee a 4K, just inaccurate. I’d also disagree about only earning a 3k. If you are getting hatch you don’t earn anything. If a hatch is used to escape it was an earned 4K. Hatch is an unearned free escape for no reason.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843507#Comment_3843507
I love that "confirmation bias" is your go to phrase when you do not seem to understand the points that you are trying to make may not be the points you are actually making. It's not confirmation bias when multiple people take what you say the same way. That may be a communication issue on your end not ours.
This game is absolutely balanced around SWF not solo q, the devs have actually confirmed this. They cannot balance around solo q because of the loose MMR brackets and you do not know what type of survivors you will be teamed up with leaving too much of a wildcard.
While I do not disagree that updates are reactionary, you also have to take into account that they are not going to look into things unless they hear it from the community. That is how anything works, things brought to light get attention. Things left in the dark get ignored.
I repeat confirmation bias because it’s what you keep doing by misinterpreting what im saying. I’m simply pointing out what’s happening as I don’t want my words misconstrued into something I haven't said. Majority is not an accurate measure of accuracy either. We can go into statistics on average reading comprehension levels in the world to back my reasoning for this if you want to but it essentially dismisses a “majority interpretation” argument for really most things in life in general. Idk why you’re so aggressive towards me in all our communication. We can have normal conversations on here about things we disagree on without being so passive aggressive and condescending. I’m trying to keep things civil and I haven’t been rude to you even though you’ve made countless jabs at me.
Also the devs have not confirmed they balance around swf, that is a false statement.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843504#Comment_3843504
When that one side that you want to be improved on is already the focus of the game, yes. You cannot say this is not a killer sided game when killers are supposed to get a 60% kill rate. While I understand a difference between a kill rate and a win rate, if they are supposed to kill more than they are to let live, then the game is killer sided.
I am happy for you that you do not experience the level of slugging so many others do however you cannot sit here and say it does not happen. Congratulations on your 11k hours in the game however that means absolutely nothing. There are plenty of killer mains with thousands of hours that just do not play survivor. And saying you have 11k hours does not mean you know more than anyone else or that you are right while everyone else is wrong.
To say the game is killer sided is just objectively wrong. Anyone with even a moderate amount of hours understands this. Generally only newer players think the game is killer sided or people that don’t play killer at any significant level.
Also, to say 11k hours doesn’t mean I know more than anyone else is an objectively false statement. Any game I go into where someone has that many hours is going to know more than me.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843392#Comment_3843392
maybe you should learn to play against with killer. there is something to be said about weaker killer though because a lot of reason why these maps are problematic is because they exaggerate the imbalanced mechanics against weaker killers such as safe pallets, infinity windows and god pallets.
Macmil offering is fishing for god windows like growning storehouse. Badham is god pallets with buildings and eyrie of crow is like outside gideon's with safe pallets everywhere. these maps just make you never want to play m1 killers that are mediocre which is like a good half of killer roaster.
At the same time, sometimes survivor use a map offering and it is like soloq baby squad that you demolish anyway.
Yeah the majority of killers I play are low tier or m1 killers as well.
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Not excited for this at all.
I find the killer very aesthetically bad. Bad perks again.
Not a fan of the survivor look either. None of the perks are my taste (I like mind game Iron Will type perks). Shoulder the Burden while fine for solo queue looks scary for swf.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843483#Comment_3843483
I find this comment rather comedic since I just read a whole lot of comments from you on another thread where you were telling survivors to "get good" to avoid slugging because it's not an issue while insinuating that you play survivor yet here you are calling for equal treatment for killer.
Interesting.
However, yes this game is balanced around well-coordinated swf teams but is miserable for solo queue. Its like most people forget that solo queue exist. But that is also why you will find more solo q players at low MMR than higher MMR brackets. And as a previous post states, if you have to camp and tunnel to get a win instead of getting better at the game, you will suffer later when you get into higher MMR and play against those well coordinated SWFs.
"I find this comment rather comedic since I just read a whole lot of comments from you on another thread where you were telling survivors to "get good" to avoid slugging because it's not an issue while insinuating that you play survivor yet here you are calling for equal treatment for killer. "
Literally none of this contradicts a single thing I said in the other thread. This is misinterpreting what I said and confirmation bias.
"However, yes this game is balanced around well-coordinated swf teams but is miserable for solo queue. Its like most people forget that solo queue exist. But that is also why you will find more solo q players at low MMR than higher MMR brackets. And as a previous post states, if you have to camp and tunnel to get a win instead of getting better at the game, you will suffer later when you get into higher MMR and play against those well coordinated SWFs. "
It is not balanced around well coordinated swf teams, it's balanced around solos. Idk how anyone could forget solo queue exists when that's literally what it's balanced around. You "generally speaking" do not need to tunnel and camp, however, against actually equally very good swf teams, yes, you do. If you beat those teams without doing that, you're either using a top tier killer or the survivors made many mistakes, which does happen often. Against those teams it's balanced around assuming you will tunnel or camp. If you're not doing either against those teams you're relying on their mistakes as to whether you win or lose for most the killer roster. IE if both sides play perfectly and you don't tunnel or camp, you lose as killer, generally speaking.
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@upsideinsanity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843414#Comment_3843414
This post has been completely invalidated as you clearly do mainly play killer per your comment on another thread calling for killer to receive equal treatment.
Now, go play 100 survivor games and keep count of how many times you are slugged for 30 seconds, a minute, 2 minutes, till bleed out. Now you can also add in slugging for the finisher mori AND I want you to do this in solo q. Come back when you have those results and we can compare notes.
If you are not willing to do this, then I guess you should stop arguing as you do not have enough experience as a solo q survivor player to speak against slugging.
"This post has been completely invalidated as you clearly do mainly play killer per your comment on another thread calling for killer to receive equal treatment. "
So because you think one side needs more improvements that makes you a killer main? What lol? That does not make sense.
"Now, go play 100 survivor games and keep count of how many times you are slugged for 30 seconds, a minute, 2 minutes, till bleed out. Now you can also add in slugging for the finisher mori AND I want you to do this in solo q. Come back when you have those results and we can compare notes. "
Outside of end game or just looking around not once in 100 games. Slugging at end game isn't an issue and I expect them to. 100 games is nothing, I've got thousands to look back on. Unless you want to count someone on top of me when I go down so he chases them? I don't really count that as that isn't what were talking about. We're talking about slugging for pressure and just leaving to go look for someone else. Very, very rare.
"If you are not willing to do this, then I guess you should stop arguing as you do not have enough experience as a solo q survivor player to speak against slugging. "
Yes please, tell the person with 11k hours they don't have enough experience rofl. You're making the same mistake the other person was and assuming a lot about me that isn't true.
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Carrying a survivor through a portal has actually existed for a very long time as far as I'm aware. It's just a little difficult to pull off and a little finicky. It does exist per say though unless somethings changed. I think it's just kind of a bug that rarely happens and has never been fixed. It's not an "intended" mechanic. He's not cheating though.
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I came in expecting to disagree with a lot but these are actually spot on.
"The Game Balances Killers at Their Peak and Survivors at Their Weakest"
This one right here, especially. SO irritating. There is a complete double standard in DBD. They balance around a survivor that's solo queue and has no idea what they're doing, but when it comes to killer is it balanced around a killer that also has no idea what they're doing? Nope, it's balanced assuming it's a top tier killer playing at the peak of their game.
It feels like when killers have an issue they're just expected to "get good" and min max some microscopic counter play that only sometimes works and requires very high skill. Survivor issues? Nah you don't gotta get better, we'll just lower it to where counter play isn't even necessary so everyone can handle it while changing none of their game play and adapting to nothing.
I just want equal treatment for both sides. If we're balancing around the average survivor we also need to balance around the average killer and that's just never been the case.
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Seems like a reasonable buff to me.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843096#Comment_3843096
I'm sorry but if you're mainly playing killer and you're not slugging of course you're not going to see it often? 11k hours only on survivor? No? LMAO
I'm sorry but people are having issues with it everywhere it's all over the forums as of the mori change highlighting it even more, you literally aren't paying attention.
The point isn't that YOU personally havn't encountered it, it's that it is so easy to do and is not healthy for the game or fun for the survivor side. You are surely not that ignorant."I'm sorry but if you're mainly playing killer and you're not slugging of course you're not going to see it often? 11k hours only on survivor? No? LMAO"
You're doing it again. You're hearing what you want to hear, not what's actually said. Where did I ever say I'm mainly playing killer? Stop adding things that weren't said. This is called confirmation bias. You're hearing what you want to hear to make it fit what you already believe rather than looking at it objectively for what is actually being said. I play both sides equally for the record.
"I'm sorry but people are having issues with it everywhere it's all over the forums as of the mori change highlighting it even more, you literally aren't paying attention."
So people complaining about it makes it a common issue? Do we think the forum user base is an accurate reflection of the player base? Correlation/Causation differences here. For hypotheticals here what if the forums were 100 people and 80 of them were complaining about something. That's everyone mostly right? That would mean it's a real issue? What if I now told you that the player base was 10 million people and that none of those had an issue with it? Now that 80 looks irrelevant. This example is to get a point across. Also, unhappy people are the most likely people to comment, not the happy ones. This can give a skewed perspective that things are more of an issue than they are, especially in DBD where people generally want to make excuses and blame everything else as the problem other than themselves. Most people also heavily exaggerate what actually happened once you push for details and it paints a very different picture. Lack of accountability is rampant.
"The point isn't that YOU personally havn't encountered it"
Normally anecdotal is a poor metric. However, the sample size I'm referencing is very relevant based on what's generally considered an appropriate size for accuracy. So I'm more referencing this as a statistic rather than personal experience since most people's personal experience isn't statistically relevant in dbd standards, normally.
"it's that it is so easy to do and is not healthy for the game or fun for the survivor side."
Easy? No, it's very high risk. Fun? Also no. You can objectively do more on the ground than on the hook. You can literally do nothing but remove yourself from the game on hook. Being slugged you can crawl away to make him lose sight, get under a pallet for a save, as well as multiple anti slug perk options. Fun is typically subjective but in this case it's objectively more fun to be slugged because you can do something as opposed to nothing on hook. The real reason people hate it has nothing to do with fun, it's because their egos are hurt and they want to remove themselves from the match and that's being denied. "Fun" is an excuse for the real motive. I would always rather be slugged.
"You are surely not that ignorant."
No need to be insulting. We're having a conversation like adults here.
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@justadreampallet said:
map offerings are annoying for both sides but I’ve noticed survivors use them more. @Blueberry had a great idea saying reduce the odds.
They can be fun but in all honesty it’s mostly used for bulling from either side. But I will say we should keep them to have some fun sending people to less seen maps.
"They can be fun but in all honesty it’s mostly used for bulling from either side."
Yeah this is pretty accurate. Rarely is some guy just wanting a map for his build or because he enjoys it. The vast majority of the time it's a squad just wanting another stacked advantage on top of their swf and bnp's/syringes/styptics. Like 90%+ of the offerings are all for the same few busted survivor maps. Rarely do we see variety here. I'd love to see a statistic on map offerings for not only how often they're thrown but also which maps are getting thrown the most. It would be ridiculously lopsided for the same few over and over.
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"that way at least the other Survivor would have the chance to get Hatch "
Here's the problem with that. That's quite literally the reason you're getting slugged in that scenario. The killer is slugging to prevent that exact thing from happening. I'd say it would be better argued for a hatch rework or to simply bring an anti slug perk if it's happening that often.
If the chance at hatch involved some skill component or was earned I could see this, but it's not. It's just a freebie escape after losing..just..because.
It's current design is also what leads to the "two people left and we're just both not touching any objectives and hiding in the corner of the map or a locker" scenario because both of us want the escape. Which happens very, very often and the killer realistically has no counter play here. This hide and seek typically wastes more time than the entire rest of the actual match took.
This is why the core problem is the hatch, not slugging.
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I get more matches with offerings than without. I'd rather them go to a percentage base so that you have to throw a lot more. Similar to what they used to be. IE each survivor map offering gives a 25% increased chance and each killer one is still 100%, given the 4/1 ratio. This means if they really want their map they'll have to burn through more offerings regularly and forgo BP ones. This simply makes it more costly so your end result wont be seeing as many. I'm keeping the killer one because first the 4/1 ratio but also, let's be honest, it's mainly the survivor squads throwing the offerings. Other than a rare like scratched mirror myers or something killers really don't throw map offerings that often, it's far, far and beyond the survivors the majority of the time.
I wouldn't want to do away with the offerings entirely as they add flavor and are used for some fun builds. Also, map offerings are more the symptom than the sickness itself. The sickness is map balance. If maps were hypothetically balanced well, people wouldn't care about offerings as much.
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I really hope they use old Freddy as the foundation for what they're going to do and not the current Freddy we have. I find pallet/trap Freddy to be completely unoriginal and not matching his theme at all.
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The Sleep isn't what's wrong, it's how they implemented it.
Honestly something as simple as taking old Freddy and slapping Incapacitated on survivors during the dream transition would've fixed a lot of the issues with it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842974#Comment_3842974
i'd say that survivors should be hindered for 10-20% for 2-3 seconds to have slight difference between wraith and ghostface. i run pwyf and drop-leg as well but a killer being completely reliant on a perk to function is not great.
the problem that i have with playing vs tricksters as survivor is that there a lot of trickster's that don't use his ability and rather m1 than use his ability. i suspect reason for this is that trickster's knives are too difficult to use and the time gained from not using his ability vs using his ability is not significant enough for players to use his ability. for example i watched tru3 play trickster and he'd just m1 with him for entire game. I was like, wow, i don't really play trickster like that at all and i don't think dev want you to m1 with him. that is why i think that reducing his knife count by -1 (Old malicious murder base-kit) and his main event by -1 would be sufficient changes for him. I think he just needs little bit more reward in regular throwing mode. Memento blade base-kit would also be good for him but i think they would need slightly lower his main event throwing bonus so that main event throwing bonus is same.
I agree about Trickster.
My only issue with the Ghostface change is, as you eluded to, it makes him very similar to Wraith. Maybe keep the "issue" we're talking about but just buff him in a bunch of other ways to compensate.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842997#Comment_3842997
I actually agree with most of this, mainly due to how much more effective slugging can be instead of hooking. I don't think we should encourage it, but it is starting to become a path of least resistance. However, I do believe it's always a choice, and sometimes it's the right choice. (hello flashlight squad) Survivors making mistakes are inevitable, just as killers make mistakes, as nobody should be expected to play perfectly no matter what "role" , and I beleive both survivor and killer should be able to profit off of those mistakes, but to an extent.
I personally don't agree with it being irrational to want changes to slugging (I mean, depending on the changes of course). As you stated in your post how bypassing the hooking mechanic can ignore almost half entire survivor teams perks, that in itself should not be possible. Distortion was nerfed for this exact reason, as many believed it was unfair that a single survivor perk could counter multiple killer perks. By that same logic, a tactic which can counter more than half of an entire teams perks that doesn't even a require a perk in itself should come with more risk for that kind of reward, in my opinon.
Let's just hope BHVR starts incentivizing hooking, and rewards killers for multiple chases and downs. With all the changes the game has recieved in the past couple years, I don't believe it's that impossible to imagine. Here's hoping!
"I personally don't agree with it being irrational to want changes to slugging "
Well I never said that. I said the hate for slugging was irrational. I did not saying wanting changes to slugging was irrational. Two different statements. "Changes" is broad, I'd be down for changes depending what they were, even though I don't have an issue with slugging in its current state.
"As you stated in your post how bypassing the hooking mechanic can ignore almost half entire survivor teams perks, that in itself should not be possible. "
I don't really agree with this as a concept. We have many perks that can be ignored in the game by playing in different ways. The only reason so many are ignored by slugging is because of every survivors choice to stack second chance hook perk ontop of second chance hook perk. IE it avoids so many not because slugging inherently ignores more perks than others, but simply because anti hook/second chance perks are the most common survivor perks. What this really demonstrates is that one, tunneling is a problem, and two that there are probably too many second chance perks. This isn't news to anyone though.
"Distortion was nerfed for this exact reason, as many believed it was unfair that a single survivor perk could counter multiple killer perks. By that same logic, a tactic which can counter more than half of an entire teams perks that doesn't even a require a perk in itself should come with more risk for that kind of reward, in my opinon. "
Actually no, apples and oranges. Distortion countering is just throwing on a perk and forget. Slugging is high risk. The cost to slug is not even remotely close to the cost of throwing a perk on. I think you're vastly understating how risky slugging is, it has high cost. Slugging successfully also takes skill, throwing Distortion on does not. These are not comparable in the way you're comparing them.
"Let's just hope BHVR starts incentivizing hooking, and rewards killers for multiple chases and downs. With all the changes the game has recieved in the past couple years, I don't believe it's that impossible to imagine. Here's hoping!"
I do agree with this.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842908#Comment_3842908
You're giving this doesn't happen to me so it's not a problem vibes and you should listen to others more, a lot of people have a problem with this. lol
That's you hearing what you want to hear rather than what's actually being said. In 11k hours I can count the amount of times those scenarios have happened on one hand. That's a pretty big sample size. What's more likely is that people are exaggerating the scenarios from what's actually happening in their games because excuses are easier than accountability for playing bad.
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Slugging generally only happens when the survivors play badly and set up an advantageous moment to do it. Rarely does a killer just slug and then randomly go looking for someone else. Any form of slugging is overall pretty rare to see in matches since it's so high risk and can backfire very easily.
Some exceptions though. Like certain killers basically have to slug, it's part of their only viable play style. I don't fault them for that. It's like blaming a Hag for setting a web up around a 3 gen and the person on the hook and camping there all game, that's just what Hag does. I don't blame the Hag, even if it is boring.
Then I could also just see a rational point to it. Like there's been tons and tons of anti hook perks that are nearly all meta, so by not hooking in the average match, I'd probably turn off at least half the entire survivor teams perks. That's a pretty strong effect. They've been incentivized not to hook with how overly punishing it is to hook.
As a general concept we want to incentivize the behavior we want to see. DBD has an issue where it punishes you for playing "fair/nice/fun/ect" and rewards you for not doing so.
I generally have no issue with slugging from either perspective though. I think the hate of it people have is generally irrational.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842594#Comment_3842594
i think his issue is that ghostface is unreliable at getting exposed first hits. the time it takes for him to stalk is time that survivor can go to loops in which ghostface has inadequate chase. the character requires you to be near melee range to confirm downs with hit ability and otherwise he is a character with exposed ability that conflicts with his stealth. the two need to synergize for him to be good. i don't think philly and matchbook on the ptb will fulfill that goal.
I agree that is a good point. There is a conflict between how his expose works and being stealth. This is why I run Drop Leg and PWYF to offset this design issue. Drop Leg base kit?
And before we ask this and then get Drop Leg nerfed to 5% and 5% base kit…lol please no, let's end this trend of nonsense.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842894#Comment_3842894
listen, buddy, im sure it doesnt happen often, but I can tell you as a matter of fact that this happens enough to cause a lot of frustration and the objective lack of interactivity or prolonged robbery of the player`s agency is enough to warrant a solution one way or the other.
if a person has to stare at their phone and wait for a third of the match as part of the game's design, it's not a really good design and I don't think it should even be questioned.
I'm not denying it happens at all. However, if something happens .1% of the time, that is not worth the time and resources that could have been put towards things the majority of the player base actually experiences. This also isn't even getting into how almost all the ideas for "fixing slugging" have a negative consequence on normal game play..for that .1% experience.
Catering to such a fraction of the population for limited resources and risk of negatively impacting the entire rest of the community does not make sense.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
I think tru3ta1ent said it best for Knight.
Knight is like survivor main that designed Spirit's power. They looked how spirit's power is uncounterable and then designed spirit that has 3+ counter-plays and 3+ drawbacks on everything.
^ This. A killer designed by survivors is what it feels like.
I really want to like Knight. He looks amazing aesthetically.
Unfortunately though he is so bad and with so many poor design choices that hold him back. Poor map pressure, poor chase, even poor area lock down. This killer does nothing good and simultaneously has counter play stacked on top of counter play for things that aren't even good enough to deserve counter play.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842800#Comment_3842800
blood rush is 0.34%.
Eh, maybe.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842783#Comment_3842783
it's not very fun to have nothing going on for 4 minutes in a game where matches last 10 minutes normally on average. Or even less if you're being slugged to death from the start.
How after are you realistically slugged for an entire four minutes? Really? I can't remember the last time I've ever had that happen and I play way, way more than the average player.
Lastly, a four man slug is never happening unless there is a ridiculous mismatch in skill levels or the survivors are playing extremely bad.
So the likelyhood of first a 4 man slug and a 4 minute bleed out happening, is nearly non existent.
If this was even remotely common people would bring anti slug perks and get amazing value, but they don't, because they know it almost never happens.
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I don't see any negative to this at all and only upside so I'm in favor. If people don't want to play any of the bad killers they can just ignore it but if it even gets a few more people to play them the variety is nice.
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I don't think 4k slug is really a thing but I'm totally fine with this buff. Good idea.
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I don't really see the issue with slugging to begin with.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842594#Comment_3842594
Welcome back my friend! <3
Hey bud! Just got back from a few months hiatus.
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It helps.
Honestly with Ghostface my biggest issue is how the breakout lingers ridiculously. Like you break line of sight and still get busted out a couple seconds later.
After that not having m1's remove your stalk meter on them would be a big help, or at least reduce it drastically, like 50%.
On Ghostface you feel a bit more locked into extra slow down perks because of how much slower he is to get things going. IE having to go roundabout ways to get surprise stalks. He needs the extra time more than other killers because of not only not having map pressure/mobility but also having to "go the long way" if you will. It would be nice if he had some "small" slow down built in to help with this. Maybe something like a "Fear" debuff that reduces gen speed by X% if they've revealed Ghostface for X seconds. Or maybe it applies on Exposed survivors. Limited use I know, but something. Potentially a passive that just makes his non-Exposed m1's apply an X% repair debuff for 60 seconds or whatever. Just spitballing ideas here.
While more just QoL and not really much of a buff, Chewed Pen and Lasting Perfume should be base kit.
Either way with a kill rate that drastically below the other killers and what is balanced for it's clear they need significant improvements whatever it is.
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I don't really think the chain needs to be easier to hit, I just think it needs to be more rewarding when you do. "Unrewarding" is what I think of when I think about Pinhead. High skill, no pay off.
I just think he shouldn't break his own chains and that the chain breaking difficulty should scale based on the length the chain traveled to reward skilled, long range hits.
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Seems to be a consequence of 2v8 going on atm.
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I regularly take extended breaks, just now coming back from one that lasted months. It's usually from frustration with changes that are going in the complete wrong direction for the game.
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Boon perks as a concept are flawed in design. For them to get buffs there would need to be core changes to how they work. IE buff them, but not Shattered Hope is base kit(why was it made a perk to begin with? The player base all has the same question). In general a killer just does not have time for extra secondary objectives to manage when they already don't have time for their objective to begin with and generally speaking, it costs the killer more time to snuff one out than it costs the team to place it. So snuffing a boon, isn't really a negative like it's "supposed" to be. IE if one survivors spent the whole game just boon spamming and I was spamming snuffing it over and over, that's a net win for the survivors. Even though snuffing is supposed to be the counter play, but it's not.
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This is one of those perks, similar to Boil Over, that can never be very good for game health. It can be extremely annoying to play against. Also, even if in its current state I think it's already better than people give it credit for.
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Those would be terrible changes. Idk if you were around back then, but they were busted and absolutely needed to be changed.
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Every time they gave her buffs they gave her completely unnecessary nerfs. Revert them.
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I mean it was pretty clear looking at the changes that those weren't going to shake up the meta at all, bar Iron Will. I would've been more surprised if they had.
Now obviously every perk doesn't have to be S tier but it at least needs to be somewhat close in value.
So if I stick any of those next to PR, Surge, Deadlock, GI, ect, are they going to give me even remotely close to the same value? No, the answers no. The game is all time efficiency and they need to make their buffs to a level where we see similar time efficiency. They're generally extremely conservative when it comes to balancing chase and info perks to where they rarely compete with just stacking more gen regression or slow down bar some exceptions.
Same for most the survivor ones as well. The time saved from stacking second chance perks or speeding up gens just blows everything else out.
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I don’t see the issue with the perks at all. I do see an issue with ruining other people’s matches though because you feel entitled to full item use.
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Not even joking I think he’s in bottom 5 now. Maybe bottom 3.
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There's already a 3 gen limiter in place so this isn't an issue. Oppression hardly bypasses this. Saying 24 times is assuming your entire team is missing every single skill check. Those spread regressions just start it regressing, they aren't applying any regression themselves.