BlueHorkew
BlueHorkew
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I mean, bhvr keeps releasing perks and killers that force survivors to pre drop pallets.
So, if bhvr encourages that play style, why would you stop?
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3375176#Comment_3375176
Same here albeit I solely play killer, but right now I'm doing a no perk run for the rest of the month, it puts my skills to the max and makes me better. As far as tunneling goes, I personally will only tunnel someone if i have no hooks at 3 gens because by 2 gens your done tunneling or not. It's almost always the strongest looper to give the rest of the team a better chance. I get tunneling isn't fun but in a game where each side wants to win, they are gonna do whatever it takes to do so. Some games are gonna be fun others not so much, there's no utopia in competitive games, ones pain is another's pleasure and that's just the hard truth.
Yeah, i just have this rule when playing killer, when there are only 2 gens to be done, i need to kill a survivor. Before that i will just play normally. But if survivors do something stupid like unhooking right in my face and then leaving that person or trying to take a hit with BT, like you asked for it. I don't have an obligation to play nice, i will because it makes games enjoyable, but i am not going to play dumb or with some sort of moral code.
And honestly because i play killer and know the things you have to do in order to win. I also don't get bothered as much while playing survivor about tunneling and camping, like yeah it's annoying when they do it at 5 gens, but besides that it really doesn't bother me that much nowadays.
3 gen strats do annoy me tho. I would prefer getting stomped in 5 min by a nurse or blight rather then playing a 30 min game against Knight or SM
Killer, the only thing that annoys me is going into a bad map like garden of joy and having a group of survivors BM me at the end, like you already have all the advantages here, what more do you want?
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Sometimes i feel like i am the only person that is ok with the state of the game.
Like, for me it feels fine most of the time
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And i don't see any problem at all xD
Ok, now to be serious. Most TR based builds are really annoying and some killers can already make good use out of them, so the thought of buffing those perks to be usable on all killers kinda scares me.
Furtive chase is a really trash perk tho.
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Ok, i need to stop giving flag at bhvr for creating so many killers now that you just pre drop and hold w for the survivors, because this is just another one of those xD
Pre drop pallets, hold W, nothing of what you do matters, let's just bore each other to death because the survivors can't deal with your power because of lack of counter play, so they hold W and you can't use your power at all.
Like, i understand the idea, but ultimately this killer is just stat buffs, it doesn't have a gimmick or theme. While i like the idea of a meter that you can use as resource to help you with different tools and effects, these effects just feel like buffs to what is ultimately just a M1 Killer, he doesn't have an unique skill or ability for you to master. Feels honestly kinda tame and basic for "The Savage"
Of your perks i would like for you to explain the Hex. Because if i understand it right, this is permanent wall hacks for the killer if a survivor is running. So no mind games in chases now? Did we forget Awakened Awareness was nerfed because of nurse, a perk like this would never be ok.
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Boon: Beacon would be so overpowered, it's not even funny. This is a power creeped version of Wiretap, this would be really nasty and unfair.
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@Zeidoktor said:
I tend to agree the the key to buffing Sadako is forcing more Condemned interaction.
One idea I had recently is something akin to original Doctor: Survivors in range of her terror radius when she's Demanifested gradually build up Condemned (much like old Doctor had a stance that made Survivors in his TR build up Madness). Demanifest hits can also grant some. The key point is tying buildup of Condemed to use of the Onryô's power.
You'd probably have to tone down the effects of full Condemnation for this, since it could result in high Condemned more often. There you could maybe mix Skull Merchant and Pyramid Head. Something like fully Condemned survivors become exposed, or some other negative effect, and can only be insta-killed on death hook.
The other problem is that survivors have no reason to mess with tapes.
Her TP cooldowns is bigger than the survivors removing tapes. She also has all the info if a survivor takes a tape.
So basically, right now survivors removing tapes is only to stop her from TP in the end game, because otherwise is a death sentence.
My guess is that the condemned mechanic was supposed to be a slowdown similar to pig traps. But right now the balance of condemned is all out of wack. Its hard to create pressure with condmned without using the slugging condmned build and survivors are heavily punished for interacting with that mechanic. So what would be a nice slowdown is just an afterthought.
It would be nice seeing a slight rework to make the mechanic more interesting, but she is functional and not problematic. Which really shouldn't be something to praise, but someone at bhvr thought people would react positively to Skull Merchant
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Man, i love motion sickness or not being able to see in my games. Will i even be able to see anything in nightfall with those two effects stacking?
How small will the Killer's FOV be with Residual manifest?
Just no, blindness already has its uses and survivor aura perks are becoming more popular, so it's even better than it used to be.
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@Ἥφαιστος said:
Please explain this. Skull merchant getting changes ASAP but Onryo get nothing?
Why are this posts so common?
SM design is problematic and the reaction by community was overwhelming negative, she needs changes ASAP, this are only bandaids.
Sadako doesn't get buffs because of her high Kill rate, so my guess is that bhvr doesn't want to make changes without understanding why.
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I think blindness is in a good spot right now.
Its a very polarizing status effect, it's most basic effect makes it a slugging enabler while also affecting solos disproportionally compared to SWF.
Right now is in a ok spot. If it was buffed more i think it would be really annoying and toxic, so i am glad that it's kinda niche, most killers have easy to apply and long blindness effects while not being too overwhelming.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374482#Comment_3374482
Literally the only thing that happened is that survivors got incentives to look for totems.
Yes. Exactly.
Before the only real reasons to look for hexes were:
- You're running Inner Strength.
- You are doing a tome challenge.
- You know the killer has an active hex.
- You are anticipating NOED.
These were all rather situational and are collectively overshadowed by arguably one of the stronger survivor perks in the game (CoH) that requires a totem to work.
But this would happen with any perk that bhvr would release that incentives survivors to look for totems, it isn't really a boon thing.
The argument was never "boons are the only thing that make survivors look for totems." The argument is that boons are the most consistent thing that makes survivors look for totems -- particularly because of how prevalent CoH is, there's almost always at least one person actively looking for totems in matches now, compared to before boons.
Still, if they ever release other meta perk that incentives looking for totems, it will be the same. It's not a boon thing.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374358#Comment_3374358
Because it will be so hard for them to create a new buff for basekit BT and change Endurance for everything else, of course...
Yeah, bhvr loves doing extra work. They have tons of time and all their ideas never create issues or need to be tested.
Even tho BT is in the game for years and they are probably comfortable with how it works.
But sure, believe that they will do crazy base kit changes like that because of 1 perk. And they are usually very quick at responding to problems
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374397#Comment_3374397
Yes, survivors with boons are seeking out totems to bless.
Boons can overwrite hexes but hexes cannot overwrite boons (with the singular exception of Pentimento when also running Shattered Hope).
Hexes used to be moderately reliable until the Mikaela chapter. Since then, they've been way less reliable.
Yeah, they overwrite hexes. But survivors would just cleanse it before. They even take double the time if they bless the hexes.
The only hex boons nerf is Pentimento, but Pento wasn't in the game before boons.
Literally the only thing that happened is that survivors got incentives to look for totems. But this would happen with any perk that bhvr would release that incentives survivors to look for totems, it isn't really a boon thing.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374373#Comment_3374373
If they’re not chasing survivors and spending more time kicking gens, then they’re not winning.
Let's not go there. This was happening in the previous patch with the 3 gen kick meta of CoB/Overcharge/Eruption. It's arguably still happening with SM.
Also, if you are going to respond by saying that it wasn't like that, just save it.
Here "It wasn't like that".
I just don't want to hear it or get notification for the same argument over and over again.
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@jmoyano92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374412#Comment_3374412
It's weak because any survivor with a modicum of common sense will break it 20 seconds later...
Look it's not my fault if you have like 10 hours into the game and you don't know how to play yet. If you still don't know how to cleanse a pentimento totem quick enough you're probably always the weakest link in your team. That's not my problem, it's yours.
Or maybe i am not new at the game. I do remember pentimentos and judge if its worth doing a totem to deal with a super obvious pento build.
Pentimentos are still extra objectives and slowdown, and if you can create pressure as killer you are literally creating extra objectives. This becomes extra nasty on solo queue.
So no, you are being incredibly naive or just downplaying how strong pentimento is.
And i don't appreciate you trying to insult me just because i have a different opinion than you. We can have different opinions, it's fine. I don't need you to agree with mine. But i would appreciate if you were a bit more respectful of others or just not being toxic for no reason.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374403#Comment_3374403
Yet Bubba can camp basement far better and he doesn’t need to set it up. Bad reason.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374418#Comment_3374418
So what you’re saying is that being garbage is what makes Trapper Trapper?
Just because one killer is toxic for that situation, we don't need to create other one.
Flipping a switch and giving him that would create a ton of issues that even you seem to recognize. So it's not a simple fix.
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@Blueberry said:
I think most people agree the speed at which gens can be done is an issue, I guess where most people disagree is the solution.
I tend to feel that the core issue is two fold. First is the start of the match with spawns and second is average chase length.
Rather than gen speeds being increased I’d rather them address it by fixing these issues.
We need a built in early game collapse, like a Corrupt at base kit. The start of the game with spawns and no pressure developed causes early gens to be near impossible to stop for your first chase.
Next is that chases are lasting way too long between second chance perks extending them and loops in general being way too safe. Essentially this boils down to most the killer roster being unable to even if played perfectly, accurately pressure enough to realistically slow gens down. This is also heavily exacerbated by maps being way, way too large on average to properly pressure.
Forgot to mention it but this lack of ability to pressure is also heavily exacerbated by injures being meaningless as self healing between medkits and CoH is out of control. It prevents hit and run pressure from actually slowing gens down and getting survivors off gens to heal each other. Healing needs to force survivors off gens to heal each other.
Now this is all the idealistic solution to solving the core problem. However this would be a perfect world and realistically this would be a lot of work for the devs to fix. So while I don’t think just increasing gens times is the real best solution to the problem it would be the most realistic in terms of the easiest and quickest fix.
I just don't know if the game can take another gen time increase. Just the reaction from bhvr after this 90 sec gens also makes me believe so.
Like we had for years tons of gen defense/regression perks and almost no gen rush perks.
Suddenly gens take 90 sec. In almost a year we had no new gen defense perks but had:
- Hyperfoccus
- PTB Better than new
- Quick Gambit
- Potential Energy
- Friendly Competition
- Overzellous (if they were already thinking of the update before this perk came out)
I don't think the game can take another gen time increase, it would just be too much at that point.
I hope for smarter and more elegant solutions.
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@jmoyano92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374361#Comment_3374361
Pentimento is already a weak slowdown perk even against normal survivors. Only noobs will not cleanse the hexes after a broken totem.
Nobody uses the other boons, so your entire statement is wrong and meaningless.
Well, since you already said that Pentimento is weak.
Your entire statement is meaningless.
You are downplaying really hard with a take like that.
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@NerfDeadHardPLZ said:
Yes we have purple addon but this should be basekit, it's easy hotfix yet devs are silent for years on weak killers
Two Words:
Basement Trapper.
Thats why they don't do it and the purple add on has a massive downside.
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@Seraphor said:
Boons, or more specifically CoH, singlehandedly killed hit-and run playstyles, as well as traditional Hex Perks. I wouldn't exactly call that a 'failure' but it's not a balanced addition to the game. The problem is that the base functions of a Boon totem, it's radius, notifications, time to bless, etc. can't be changed between perks, and what's effective for one effect (healing) might not be as effective for another effect (speed boost).
Scourge Perks aren't necessarily OP or DoA either, some of them are definitely well designed, but some don't seem powerful enough to warrant the need for a specific hook, such as Gift of Pain and Floods of Rage, which specifically require a survivor to be unhooked to take effect anyway. I like that they're perks that require a unhook, it encourages killers to let the save happen, but they need to be powerful enough effects that they're worth losing out on a third of their activations.
What do you mean by boons destroying Hexes? I don't understand.
Made survivors memorize totem spawns or made survivors look for totems more? Is that the issue?
Because, i don't see how boons counter hexes, if anything it is the opposite. Since hexes slowdown blessing speeds or remove boon placements.
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@RaSavage42 said:
The issue I see is their running out of ideas for those two
Scourge Hook perks: We have... Gen regression, Aura reading, Gen slowdown and faster hook timers
Boons: Healing, Faster movement, Aura hiding and Picking oneself up from the dying state
What else can they do given the limits they set for themselves
I mean, even when they aren't limited by those concepts and can do whatever they think.
We got perks like nerfed Blood pact, Prove thyself but infinitely worse, that scratch mark teamwork perk, only last chapter. So they clearly are reusing ideas and perks at this point.
But, honestly i feel like the concept of boons and scourge hooks still offer a lot of possibilities. Just hope they can be a little more creative than those adept perks.
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I hope not. Bury that feature in the ground and make sure to never come back.
Also, that sounds way too much for one update. I would expect the perk changes and maybe something else small. I wouldn't count on map or killer reworks.
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I don't think they are a failed concepts. I assume we will still have more perks like those to come. For example we had 5 chapters between Hex: Haunted Grounds and retribution.
But, boons need some reworking, with CoH being the only boon people will use, but being so strong that all the other boons are suffering because of boons limitations.
If CoH were to be gutted, like completely unusable, then boons will basically be a dead mechanic. They need to be looked at.
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I don't think its that black and white.
Right now gen blocking feels contained, not too strong but their effects have limited applications. Like you can only have 4 Deadlocks, 1 corrupt.
Gen regression feels overwhelming when is stacked or doesn't stop. CoB/Overcharge being always available creating this 3 gen meta, because the killer has regression power and no incentive to chase survivors. While regression as reward like POP, Jolt or Pain Res might feel overwhelming if survivors is doing bad, it also does nothing if the killer is doing bad.
It's kinda of a weird situation. If you buff Blocking to be more common like regression, i am not sure if psychologically survivors would find it more fun, i think doing the gen will be more fun than being forced to wait.
One thing that maybe some killers should understand, gen regression is a double edge sword against gen rushers. Regression perks don't matter if you can't get to the point of applying them. The best effective counters to gen rush are Corrupt, Deadlock, NOED, NWO and fast chases.
Kinda weird that one is more effective when you are down while the other while also effective makes stomps much harsher.
Things are not simple.
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Simple answer 9.23 seconds, instead of 40, it's 30.77.
If you want to complicate, beware that the vigil effect stacks with other survivor's vigil.
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Look, i kinda want snuffing to break totems, but:
- Pentimento
- All the other boons are really terrible besides CoH
- All the other boons will get affected way more by that change rather than CoH, which i assume is the one you are complaining
So, i am all for it. But boons as a mechanic need to be looked at, its not good that this interesting concept is getting strongholded because one of them is really OP and the others have to suffer in mediocrity.
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I will just save you the trouble.
They probably won't do it. Endurance right now is the mechanic used for base kit BT.
So i doubt bhvr will want to introduce any way to buff tunneling, they already get enough flag for that.
They might introduce something to deal with DH, being a perk that counters DH or a nerf to DH. But something that counters endurance i feel like it is very unlikely.
I saying this, but \pinhead has a purple add-on that allows him to do this. If something like that was brought for every killer. The rage in this forum would be really something else.
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Last time they increased gen times they nerfed gen regression.
What do you think is going to happen if they increase it again.
Even when they are reaching levels of obnoxiously slow that survivors bring more gen progression perks.
Stop messing with gen times, they are already barely at the level of tolerable.
And i don't want doing gens under pentimento to become base kit. It sounds insufferable.
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Plague is my favorite killer to play, and...
I like that she doesn't have access to that information. It isn't like Ghostface that needs that info because doing an M1 resets the stalk progress.
While it would be a nice Qol change. I personally feel like it would be less interesting to play with, and she isn't heavily punished for not knowing how far is infection on each survivor.
I would like it to stay as it is. Plague is in a great place in terms of balance.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373436#Comment_3373436
here's issue with their change. if you place 4 drones by generators. there is no obligation for the survivor to power-up the killer until final generator and even then, now the skull merchant claw traps are more dangerous then her lock on. There is no incentive to ever put get a claw trap because Haste status effect is stronger then Exposed effect. You can outplay exposed by staying injured the entire game rendering status effect irrelevant.
so now what happens is that you will need to use all 3 drones on pre-determine 3 gen, i.e your power is irrelevant for entire game and once all 4 generator have been completed. the survivor will ignore your drones on gens and play permanently exposed on purpose. So these buffs in regard to gaining haste and gaining dissolution will never occur. Her anti-loop is tied behind survivor giving killer anti-loop.
Do you know what killer also has this problem? Plague
Her claw traps are like corrupt puke. Nobody will ever give a single claw trap the entire game and she has no ways to force survivor to willing place a claw trap on themselves apart from Iri add-on. So now her 3 gen is worse while her anti-loop is entirely controlled by the survivor.
But she still gets the haste if you are in a drone area. It's not just the claw trap.
You can't choose between the haste or the exposed. Its either both or just the haste. In 3 gens, thats what i mean.
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@jesterkind said:
It's certainly not going to fix the overall problem since the problem was never Skull Merchant to begin with, but in theory it should help her power not contribute to the problem as much. It was already only somewhat contributing, and this will ensure that disabling drones buys you more time towards the end of the game since it can't be replaced until the trap breaks, which means either a hard timer or she has to come chase you- both helpful in this scenario.
Overall I feel... optimistic, though I'm concerned that her "web of traps" playstyle is going to be hurt too much. I'll refrain from commenting too concretely until I've had a chance to play with the updated kit, I think.
I don't know. I really have this feeling that things aren't over.
If they still allowed for trapped survivor to disarm the drones, but of course, that one she gets back. I think i would be less worried.
With that, i fear for hard 3 gen into tunneling some guy, making 1 drone unhackable while solos need to coordinate to which survivor can disarm the drones and which can't.
I might be wrong, we will only know next week.
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@Jarky said:
Hard to tell from reading it.
Against a co-ordinated 4-man it seems like she's weaker overall at holding a 3-gen and will eventually lose from war of attrition but they'd have to be co-ordinated.
If there's 3 survivors, I dunno if it makes much of a difference, and may actually just make her better since she can now move between gens faster if 1 disables it and she still has 3 drones left anyway to keep over the 3 generators if 1 of them is disabled by one of the survivors. If 2 survivors do it, well she has 2 drones over 2 of them and can hover near the non-protected one. That said, I dunno how this will work out in practice. It may be that 3 tracked survivors with her haste boost isn't as bad as it seems if they disable them.
Overall though, I think it's a step toward the right direction - but ultimately I think the 3-gen issue is largely exasperated by current perk design and map design issues with gen placement, so ultimately, I'd argue BHVR need to look into them. Maybe if CoB/OC are looked at, this'll seem more bearable - time will tell.
Like, i can tell she was buffed overall. She is going to be better.
But for an update that was supposed to look at both sides of the issues.
I think they left themselves open for a big surprise.
At least is a win-win for me. If i am wrong, nice, matches against her aren't going to be such a drag. If i am right, man this forum and twitter are going to be in flames. And i wish everyone at bhvr to protect themselves from the chaos.
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@Emeal said:
3 Gen isn't an illegal strategy mate, its part of the game, like Camping, Tunneling, Looping, Teabagging, Slugging, unhooking your teammates poorly etc. Skull Merchants still need to be able to do basic Killer functions, but if they are out of control, it has to be changed. Its part of the experience, for better or for worse.
So they wont just nerf Skull Merchant into the group to make it impossible for her to 3Gen, like dont expect that.
Don't forget there is a high possibility Call of Brine and Overcharge will be on the cutting board for the Summer Perk Update too.
I wasn't saying it was illegal. But worries me that they wanted to nerf her in that playstyle, and she might actually be buffed and even better at doing it.
Again, i am not sure. I really hope bhvr didn't mess this one up.
Because if she is better at 3 gen after that patch. Boy, this forum is going to be fun xD
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It does seem better overall. I’m not sure how much drones being unhackable again by survivors with traps will offset the nerfs she got in the 3-gen department. We’ll see.
Like:
- she now gets free Haste, not just in chase, so she moves around faster
- She still can have all the info she needs
- Survivors being trapped makes them unable to hack drones so they either have to risk expose or wait for other survivors to disable them
- So now she actually gains access to unhackable drones, by tunneling a survivor out of the game.
I am not sure, if she was nerfed in 3 gens. She might actually be buffed in that area. But i am not sure.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373369#Comment_3373369
That’s at least a more fair argument. It encourages less fun interactions. I could see that. However that’s more just the perks bad core design than my change itself.
The nemesis thing is pretty irrelevant as no one really wastes pallets to kill zombies anyway. Interesting fact though.
I have been using Any means necessary after the buff.
For some reason found a lot of Nemesis Players during that time.
It was fun for me xD
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373254#Comment_3373254
This is just completely and utterly unrealistic. As soon as they see you have this the rest the entire match is pre drops. This is literally the exact same scenario as spirit fury. Even with this buff I personally wouldn’t ever run it still for that exact reason.
I just don't like perks that force survivors to play on a more lame way of pre dropping instead of going for more risky plays and go for stuns. Just seems really backwards design to me.
But this is my issue with the perk itself.
Also, i don't know if you know, but right now destroying zombies with pallets also activate Hubris for some reason. Free tip for Nemesis players if they want.
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@martinj97 said:
Improve stealth
Add to base kit: Survivors are Oblivious when wearing a reverse bear trap.
It's buffing her stealth for tunneling a survivor with a bear trap. I would prefer to buff her stealth for regular match and not just for a survivor already at disadvantage.
I do hope that the TR changes and ambush attack rework would make her more dangerous as a stealth killer
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@Gandor said:
what about nerfing pig instead? /s
(I just had to. This meme and opportunity is just too good to pass over)
Hahaha, maybe i will do a post about it one day xD
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373074#Comment_3373074
There's a reason why skilled (with this killer) people consider him A-tier. The amount of little gaps he can shoot thru (and there are these things on like every map and "buttload" of them) and surprise survivors is insane. Skilled DS will know them and will be able to abuse them - making him nightmare to face. But beginner DS will struggle to get a shot in the open if survivor is juking.
The killer in fact IS strong, but he's just hard to pick up (definitely harder then nurse). This is also the reason why many ppl perceive DS as weak killer.
Making him true stealth killer (16m TR) or win-win killer (returning insta-scope) would just catapult him into unfair territory - where the only counterplay is genrush and going to die into corners. So no - none of these 2 things can ever return. Also plaything is fine - it has it's conditions and is not permanent like just lazily equipping M&A.
He definitely needs to be careful, DS used to be hated because of those things, i want to improve him and know that he needs a smaller TR, but the true stealth slinger from his launch is best to not return.
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I already said a lot of this changes are way too powerfull.
Quick example, spirit with this hubris. You are giving spirit the ability to one shot every survivor by her walking up to a pallet just so they can stun her. Because lets be real, any good spirit will catch a survivor within 40 seconds. Its way too much, besides being a perk that punishes a survivor for going for stuns instead of just pre dropping.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372826#Comment_3372826
his low tr had little to do with being able to shoot out of terror radius. it had everything to do with his ammo capacity and yoyoing generators. 1 ammo count means that if he shoots a healthy survivor, he has to shoot, wipe his weapon/self-stun, reload, speed boost and then shoot again. that is time consuming for the killer. Low terror radius was clever way to preserve his ammo count by potentially getting an initial hit which would result in a survivor starting injured in the chase.
The other aspect of low terror radius to make yoyoing generators less effective vs soloq. soloq relies on heartbeats to measure distances for how close/how far a killer is from a generator. the more intense heartbeat, the closer the killer is near you. the less intense the heartbeat, the further away the killer is. most survivor do not understand how heartbeat works and do not yoyo effectively anyway. yoyoing is most of SWF concept more so then soloq one. that is kinda why even with deathslinger was stronger, he was not that good vs swf because low terror radius is not that helpful vs strong swf that proper yoyoing because they call out the killer's position despite having no terror radius.
*** I will avoid explaining yoyoing as concept in this thread.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372554#Comment_3372554
About the ADS, every semi range killer has a delay before they attack, i already told you that. Deathslinger numbers are 0.4 to ADS and 0.5 delay to shoot. This numbers are very in line with other killers. I understand that quickscoping with him was fun and required skill, but it wasn't good for the game as made him too powerfull in chases and gave way to short time for survivors to react.
The quick ADS timing for deathslinger was there because of the travel time of his harpoon and his tiny hitbox on the harpoon. At further distances. His gun had a lot of shot leading which gave more experienced survivors time to react to his shot allowing them to easily side-step out of the way. Survivor was always in control of his gun in terms of whether shot hits or not but it took a lot more skill to predict when deathslinger would shoot and there was a skill towards using line of sight and meticulous prediction in avoiding his harpoon gun. Fast ADS time increases skill-floor for survivor to avoid his gun. I wrote thread around 6 months ago explaining this concept in regards to his gun.
Now the survivor control is like free. With current iteration of his gun, I feel like survivor do not earn control over his gun. There is no real skill-cap towards playing against deathslinger gun. they just get control without much effort.There is more odds for him to miss a wiggling survivor then there is for him to hit a survivor which artificially creates long chases for a killer who is designed to be a strong chasing killer. Luckily, most survivors are not that good so you can still 4k with slinger against not so good survivors.
If you want my opinion on this topic, I would recommend raising his harpoon gun velocity to 1500 m/s from 1000 m/s. Make his gun near hitscan. Now survivor can have their longer ADS time and Killer can have a more effective gun if the slinger player has good aim.
I want to suggest changes that i know won't cause problems. Since his projectile is already the same speed of max charge Huntress hatchets, i have no idea what implications a change like that would create, it might be ok or not, i can't test it or visualize it.
You might be totally right, but because i can't get a point of comparison i don't want to add it to the suggestions.
I hope you understand, i think you explained your points really well.
In your first post you made some points about my add-on choices. My ideas for add-ons were a mixture of utility that he needed or flavor from his lore and western imagery. His hunt for his obsession like in his lore, the badge making an entire town stop in fear of the outlaw.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373091#Comment_3373091
A 28m TR would be fine, without giving him a weird janky disappearing lullaby. Just that no other lullabies disappear with undetectable or oblivious so it would be strange and confusing.
A better fix similar to what you want would be that his ADS warning audio queue is no longer bound to his TR. So if Slinger is aiming at you while undetectable or while he has a small TR, you still hear the ringing sound. But that would also remove some of his unique synergy with undetectable and oblivious.
A 28m TR is the right fix, I think. 20m with M&A, so you have some warning that Slinger can make a shot at you, but not so much warning that you can hold W to Narnia. He still has to burn a perk slot on something that isn't a top tier meta perk so he can MAYBE get some stealth shots in. Even back before his nerf, a lot of the best Slingers dropped M&A so they could have more slowdown. I personally never stopped running it until he was nerfed, and the value from M&A became basically non-existent.
Yeah, i would love the second fix, but i don't want to ruin his synergy with undetectable and oblivious.
I will put it at 26m for now.
I really hope he get a small update. The character is good and really cool, he just needs a few tweaks.
But it's fun imagining.
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@BenOfMilam said:
Less @ OP, more @ entire thread here.
It's kinda funny that Deathslinger is one of the most controversial killers. People think he's either A tier or D tier. The people that actually put a lot of time into him say he's A tier, and I don't think someone who has 1k+ hours on Trapper will try to tell you he is A tier...
Here's the funny thing about Slinger's TR change: it didn't change the fact that he can equip a single perk and shoot you from outside his terror radius. Any Oblivious or Undetectable perk lets him do the exact same thing that M&A let him do, except it also made him way more difficult for anyone that isn't relying on stealth perks.
They nerfed his TR because of a single perk, when there are dozens of other perks that let him stealth snipe anyway lol
M&A is very free tho, compared to something like Trail of Torment or Plaything. You just slap the perk on and you're good to go.
But also, why is it bad that Slinger can shoot you from outside his TR when Huntress can easily snipe you from outside her lullaby? Slinger isn't even guaranteed a down, since you can break off the chain.
idk, I think his TR should go back to 24m. You can use your eyeballs and see if the killer is coming even well beyond 16m, 24m, or even 32m. He needs a straight line between you and him to land a shot, and anything he can shoot through or over you can SEE through or over.
I guess it's because Monitor is permanent, while the other oblivious and undetectable perks are temporary.
I don't know, he needs a smaller TR so survivors don't run earlier against him. But still, if before 24m the devs looked at it as a problem. I am not sure, i am on third idea to try and make this work.
I hope this new lullaby range can make both sides happy.
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@Gandor said:
If he ever gets 24m TR, I want him to not be able to fully utilize M&A. We have hiding killers and all of them don't shoot. There's a good reason for that.
If you want super easy games, go play against bots.
I am honestly super scared of that. I also don't think is the best idea, but i seem to be in the minority.
I don't know.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372554#Comment_3372554
People have told you multiple times now what to do: Pay attention while on gens. You HAVE your warning, start doing it.
"About the ADS, every semi range killer has a delay before they attack, i already told you that. Deathslinger numbers are 0.4 to ADS and 0.5 delay to shoot."
So, we're going in circles now? And I already told you: Slinger's weaknesses means that he shouldn't need to be "consistent" with other Killers. You keep trying to make him "in line" with other killers while ignoring why he can't be perfectly in line with others. Range limit, etc.
You also said "similarly ranged", not "semi ranged", I assumed you meant Huntress and Trickster. Unless now you're changing your argument because of what I said earlier.
"I understand that quickscoping with him was fun and required skill, but it wasn't good for the game as made him too powerfull in chases and gave way to short time for survivors to react."
If Survivors always get plenty of time to react to everything a Killer does, that makes the Killer weak because then they will never get downs. Simple as that. You shouldn't have several seconds to always make the correct decision, not putting yourself in situations where you have to react is kinda a thing in this game and it always has been. It's why you should position yourself correctly like how using loops instead of running into the middle of nowhere is Survivor 101 because then that gives M1 Killers easy hits.
And no, ADS zoning was the problem, not quickscoping. You're forgetting the complaints.
Ok, i went back on the TR.
Just say what do you think of the Marshall badge and if you like the reload base kit changes.
Again, ADS is a no for me.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372554#Comment_3372554
People have told you multiple times now what to do: Pay attention while on gens. You HAVE your warning, start doing it.
"About the ADS, every semi range killer has a delay before they attack, i already told you that. Deathslinger numbers are 0.4 to ADS and 0.5 delay to shoot."
So, we're going in circles now? And I already told you: Slinger's weaknesses means that he shouldn't need to be "consistent" with other Killers. You keep trying to make him "in line" with other killers while ignoring why he can't be perfectly in line with others. Range limit, etc.
You also said "similarly ranged", not "semi ranged", I assumed you meant Huntress and Trickster. Unless now you're changing your argument because of what I said earlier.
"I understand that quickscoping with him was fun and required skill, but it wasn't good for the game as made him too powerfull in chases and gave way to short time for survivors to react."
If Survivors always get plenty of time to react to everything a Killer does, that makes the Killer weak because then they will never get downs. Simple as that. You shouldn't have several seconds to always make the correct decision, not putting yourself in situations where you have to react is kinda a thing in this game and it always has been. It's why you should position yourself correctly like how using loops instead of running into the middle of nowhere is Survivor 101 because then that gives M1 Killers easy hits.
And no, ADS zoning was the problem, not quickscoping. You're forgetting the complaints.
Ahh, believe what you want. I doubt they will mess with the ADS change. He works on the same rules as the other killers, so i doubt they will ever go back on that.
And Bhvr even promised that they would give him that delay before it was released.
You might think its unfair, but this is how the game works for every killer and i doubt they will ever go back on that decision for him.
This is my opinion. If you want to make another post with your changes you are free. You can even use some of my ideas if you liked any of them. Or if you just want to post your ideas here, you are also free.
I would be interested in seeing what you would come up with.
Still, i appreciate the feedback, the TR i might go back and just give him the 24m and remove the warning and stuff. But the ADS i will not change it. That is my opinion.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372542#Comment_3372542
So what? Their reason isn't right if they're worried about Survivors staring off on gens when they know it's a Slinger.
And your ideas aren't effective enough unfortunately, and are just going to make people upset because they're micro buffs that don't fix issues. Look how people talked about Skully and the changes she received on PTB. People didn't like them because it didn't fix her core issues. You'll get the same reaction if your changes go live.
Dude, relax. I don't work at bhvr. My changes aren't going live. Honestly, for as much i would love for Deathslinger to receive a few Qol update and an add-on pass on some of his worst add-ons.
I doubt bhvr is doing that. I honestly doubt bhvr will update slinger, this year.
I just wanted to post some safe qol changes to Deathslinger and some ideas for new add-ons, because let's be real. If we are talking about heavy changes we have characters like:
- Skull Merchant
- Twins
- Knight
- Blight (add-ons)
- Trapper
- Freddy
- Sadako
- Pig
Like, do you see the amount of killers that probably need bigger changes?
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372222#Comment_3372222
Actually, someone here IS trying to say Slinger is not weak, you seem to just be reading my replies and not checking theirs.
And he's not good and viable lmao I already explained why, you haven't actually debunked anything I wrote. Just doubled down.
"What are his problems, he is slow 4.4 and has normal TR which makes survivors run early against him. He is punishing if you miss your shots, he has a lot of useless add-ons."
You need to not post at 2:50AM, because it results in logic like this.
So now his normal TR is an issue to you? YOU were the one defending his current TR, now you're saying it's a problem?
His kit IS bad, the 4 Slinger mains that agree with you doesn't refute his weaknesses and how he is still weaker than Huntress, a FREE ranged Killer.
And just in case since you brought up ADS: "Can we also add maybe revert the ADS readying speed nerf upon entering ADS only? And just leave the current penalty if he decides to cancel ADS. This way he can do cool reaction shots again on Survivors, but now he needs to commit to his shots."
Just wanna point out the fact that I said "readying speed nerf only".
Dude, i don't know what you want. I do think he needs a smaller TR, but i don't think you should be able to damage survivors outside your TR with monitor without any warning.
About the ADS, every semi range killer has a delay before they attack, i already told you that. Deathslinger numbers are 0.4 to ADS and 0.5 delay to shoot. This numbers are very in line with other killers. I understand that quickscoping with him was fun and required skill, but it wasn't good for the game as made him too powerfull in chases and gave way to short time for survivors to react.
This is not unique to slinger, every other semi ranged killer has numbers similar or bigger than slinger. The only one that has better number than him is nemesis, but his whip is shorter and has to work with a 3 hit chase.
So no, if his numbers were drastically bigger than other similar killers like for example Victor post hit cooldown, i would give you reason. But he doesn't.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372500#Comment_3372500
Just because BHVR thinks something isn't okay, doesn't mean it's not actually okay.
Like, are you seriously defending BHVR's reasoning on this? BHVR, the origin of "pretty good job so far"? Boons? Bad maps? Weak Killers? Skull Merchant? 3 gens?
Revert the TR. There is no good argument whatsoever, the consistent counterplay to always counter the Killer is already there. Pay attention and stop staring off on gens, it's easy to do.
I don't care. They do the game, they have their reason and explained it.
So i want to give improvements and ideas that without being brute force approach and going against the concerns of the devs.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372479#Comment_3372479
Snipes without warning isn't a real thing in the first place. Opening eyes and looking around stops that.
Was still the reason they nerfed his TR in the first place, don't want to push luck.
If bhvr thought it wasn't ok, i want to make him better while guaranteeing that this won't be an issue
Still enables him to get closer and won't change his chases, as this only applies when not in chase