BlightedDolphin
BlightedDolphin
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650008#Comment_3650008
At which point can we use data to start talking about balance. Either side could have 100% win rate and they would still defend themselves with this nonsense. Surely at some point a high percentage means something is going on.
Use them to discuss balance whenever you want. Just don't go around making up stuff about them to fit your narrative or using them as a way to insult people.
If you want to talk about how you think the stats show X Killer is over/underperforming and why or why you think one role might need some changes, go for it.
I'm talking about the people who are using it to say stuff like "SEE??? KILL RATES ARE OVER 50% I KNEW KILLER MAINS WERE ENTITLED LIARS!!!!" or using it as a way to insult people. Or twisting the stats to suit whatever narrative works best for you. For example there are people here saying 3% difference between SWF and solo means all killers are bad and SWF is balanced, and others saying it means survivors are liars and solo is easy. Same statistics but used to fit whichever narrative they want. Don't do that.
Discuss balance all you want, just don't use them as a weapon.
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@GeneralV said:
Late 2023 DBD Forums.
Freddy was trending a lot, every other day had a thread about him, and the support for my Old Freddy struggle had never been stronger. It is a matter that means a lot to me <3
Lets bring that back.
The devs said that the stats include closer to 1 million games, but still less than that.
Freddy's pickrate is 1%, but as they round it is probably <1%.
That means last month there were <10,000 matches involving Freddy. I honestly could see this as just being 90-100 Freddy mains just playing around 100 games per month, maybe less.
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Legion themselves aren't annoying for me, it's my teammates not knowing how to play against.
I actually quite like playing against Legion when my teammates are decent but when they spend the entire game Self-Caring only to get Frenzied .2 seconds later to repeat the whole thing again it gets frustrating. Also people mending while Legion is still in Frenzy and then going down from the 5th hit and then immediately DCing...
Almost every second Legion game plays out like that so, even though I disagree with them DCing, I can understand why people aren't exactly happy to load into a Legion match.
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It also doesn't take into account all the games that could've been a win but weren't because someone gave up or because someone/the team didn't care about winning and just wanted to mess around or bully the killer.
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651052#Comment_3651052
This is so true. Survivors are much more likely to DC in a game where they aren't winning, so throwing out the DC games can bring kill rates down.
And this is especially true, now that we have survivor bots, because if a survivor wants to ragequit, they'll either DC or purposely get hooked and will let go on hook.... and letting go on hook doesn't replace the survivor with a bot.
I disagree with this. When I'm a survivor most of the games that have someone DC are still very winnable. Same when I'm killer, I could still easily lose but then someone DCs and then the games just over.
Yes there's a few where someone DCs on death hook after being tunnelled, but there's also people throwing simply because they were found in the first 5 seconds or because they got hit through a pallet. Survivors DC less so because they aren't winning, and more so because they aren't having fun.
Same with giving up on hook. Most games are still winnable in my experience before they give up.
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They’ve already done that with Stranger Things and Alan Wake 2 and they were pretty well received so I think at some point we’ll see more.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650410#Comment_3650410
Devs wrote:
"Kill rates do not include matches where a disconnect takes place."
So once there is a DC in the game, the match is not counted. I dont know if people want to downplay how miserable Skull Merchant is, but the 70% are only matches were people dont DC. Her Killrate would probably be higher if they would include those matches as well, because a 3v1 is a 3v1, a Bot does not really change that.
And while she is a strong Killer, it is also clear that her high Killrate is also due to the fact that she is horrible to go against. But this is not the only point, it is not like Legion back then who was a bad Killer, but made people give up, she is also strong and even if people would not give up against her, she would probably rock one of the higher Kill Rates.
But the fact that Survivors still just go to the next game against her is just alarming. And there is no sugarcoating around it, because it does not happen against any other Killer that people give up that often.
Oh thank you. Makes sense to not include the entire match.
Agree with everything you said. Regardless of why her kill rate is so high, she needs some changes.
Doesn’t matter if she is strong or weak, if she miserable for the majority of the player base to the point that throwing the game is more enjoyable, then something’s gone wrong and needs to be looked into.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650400#Comment_3650400
If BHVR did not change their data-system, they never included dcs in kill-rates. So let's say, 2 survivors dc'ed and bots replaced them. Killing them will not be in kill-rates.
Also source:
I wonder if the other survivors in the game still count towards it. So if I DC I won’t count towards the kill rates, but when my teammates inevitably die will they still count?
It would explain Skull Merchant’s 70% but also make the stat kind of pointless because as soon as someone DCs it’s pretty much over for the others.
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No matter what they do she’ll always be hated. Her power just isn’t fun at all. She needs a Freddy level rework.
I honestly hate this killer. Not because she is miserable to play against, but because she is so terribly designed that she needs constant reworks and just pushes back the balancing for other killers who have been waiting longer.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650364#Comment_3650364
It’s an assumption you could make for SWF. As Tooth stated you don’t really know how many, if any, of those survivors who escaped 13/30 matches were solo queue players. Going by the data provided initially it would seem most of them were not.
The image is out of 10 matches not 30. The 30 is the amount of survivors in a trio in those 10 games.
Out of those 30, 13 escape and 17 die.
Out of the 10 solo survivors in those games, 4 escape and 6 die. (Assuming the ~40% escape rate for solo).
Yeah you can’t exactly assume they escape that much, and given that trios are likely to abandon the solo they most likely die more often. However, that would mean that solo survivors have a higher than 40% escape rate when playing in a team of pure solos or with a single duo (to balance the <40 escape when with trios).
Thats pretty decent honestly.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650204#Comment_3650204
And Devs dont balance on "win rate". Then matches that survivors have 2 or less escape should not count as lost, which is 40%. I can say to make survivors have 50% win rate (with 3 escapes in 50% of the time) but Im sure killers dont like that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650198#Comment_3650198
3% is not a clear number. Given in 10 matches of 30 survivors from Trio. 42.5% means about 13 out of 30 escape. And you dont know if the 10 Solo in those match are escape or not. Say Solo escape 40%. Mean you have this chart, Green for escape and Red for death
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N99Z29IMJZ0R/image.png
Trio have 42.5% doesnt mean killers lose 2.5% killer rate against them. That 42.5% is only applied on 75% of total survivors.
Seeing it like this really shows that the game is pretty balanced right now. You escape just a little under half your games which I think is pretty good.
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@Tsulan said:
What teasers? There´s nothing on Youtube. Please tell me, so i don´t have to check 15 different social media channels.
Yeah they are all on the social media’s. They’ve all been posted on the DBD Reddit though.
(I’m posting them all from the leak subreddit simply because they are harder to find on the main subreddit. Please don’t view the rest of the sub if you don’t want to see any potential leaks.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaksDBD/comments/1alyz05/first_chapter_31_teaser_drops_and_adds_more/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaksDBD/comments/1amrdic/new_killer_tease_from_dbd_insta/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaksDBD/comments/1ap3nuj/another_chapter_31_teaser_dropped/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaksDBD/comments/1apvkr0/another_chapter_31_teaser/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaksDBD/comments/1aqp0i7/new_chapter_teaser/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaksDBD/comments/1ari21w/another_teaser_lads/
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@GeneralV said:
Me and the other five Freddy mains here are carrying this killer.
Loses one game and drops his kill rate to 50%
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Sprint Burst, Vigil, Kindred, Deja Vu
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Honestly kind of impressed BHVR has managed to get the gap between solo and SWF to less than 10%. I remember when they showed the difference a few years ago it was like 15% or something which was awful.
And honestly the gap is probably a bit less since solo players are much more likely to just give up and throw.
Still much more they should do to help solo queue and SWF will always be better, but it’s nice to see that the improvements they are making are actually working.
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Oh boy I bet no one will misinterpret these or use them to further push an us vs them narrative!
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Hard disagree. This is one of the best states killer has ever been in. Maybe even the most balanced the game has been overall for both sides.
Yes there is still a lot that needs to be addressed, but there’s no way the current game is anywhere near as bad as the days of Dead Hard and vacuum pallets.
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If someone is skilled with Huntress they won’t be getting any use out of STBFL. And her cool-down from hatchets is already very close to max STBFL stacks, and with add ons a hatchet hit is shorter than STBFL. Same with Hillbilly.
It was the completely wrong way to nerf the perk though. The only killers this change even affected were Demo, Slinger, Nemi, and Pig. And none of them were an issue even with STBFL. Maybe they wanted to change it so they didn’t have to balance future killers around it or so they could buff those killers I listed without having STBFL possibly being an issue? Or maybe they just saw it had a high pick rate and decided to nerf it. Who knows.
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“What’s a cosmetic?” - Me, a Quentin main
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647878#Comment_3647878
Stbfl is still stable in my builds. Perk can't be replaced.
Depends on the killer. M1 killers like Ghostface and Sadako it's still pretty good but killers who used to get good value from it like Deathslinger and Demo now are better off without it.
And honestly the perk could be F tier and I would still run it on Freddy just for the satisfying finger wiggles.
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@JackieShana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647509#Comment_3647509
Good points overall. I'll be moving Onryo and Pig up. Thanks!
Are you going to share the revised tier list with us later? I’m interested to see how it looks after everyone’s feedback
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They’ve always been the meta.
I don’t like running 4 slowdown because I think it’s boring but I can understand why everyone else does, especially since there isn’t really any other alternative.
Chase perks aren’t that great and with the STBFL nerf the only one really worth running is now gone.
Aura perks are hard countered by Distortion. Why bother running a perk that has the potential to be useless when slowdown perks always give value?
End game perks are fine, but why plan for the end game when you can prevent it entirely?
There isn’t really any chance for variety. Slowdown is so consistent and useful and every other type of perk is often not worth running or completely outshined by slowdown so I can see why it’s so popular.
And unfortunately this is probably going to be the meta for a while. They need to nerf all slowdown across the board and then buff the other perks so that slowdown isn’t the best anymore. Maybe give a base kit slowdown buff as well.
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@Eelanos said:
Maybe what Myers needs is the old map lighting.
Can't we all just agree to bother BHVR until they revert the lighting? Survivors want it, low-tier killers benefit from it and it pisses off high tier killers because it's harder for them to track survivors at Mach 20. Literally everybody wins.
No thanks. I never want to go back to the days of Blendettes. And PC players would just use filters so this would only make console more miserable.
Also Myers barely benefitted from the old lighting because his mask is like a beacon.
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I agree. If someone DCs within the first 10 or so seconds the game should just be cancelled for everyone else with their stuff being refunded. It's not fun for either side playing a game like that.
As long as they still give the player who DCed a penalty that is.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647420#Comment_3647420
Do people really think Nurse is easy to play, but the vast majority of the players just don't want to spend a small amount of time to learn her? Really? So people see tier lists, say "I'm going to play Nurse because she's S tier"..... but then just immediately give up because they lost a few games in a row?
Really? The only thing keeping the game from turning into a mass invasion of Nurse players, is a small learning curve that the majority of players are too collectively lazy to learn?
I never said anyone thinks Nurse is easy. I never said Nurse wasn't hard. I just said the difficulty of her is over-exaggerated. She is a hard killer, but not hard enough to justify placing her lower than S tier.
The reason Nurse isn't dominating games is:
- Most people don't care about tier lists and just play who they find fun. E.g., Legion isn't high tier but they're everywhere because they're fun.
- Nurse is hard, so yes, people do give up after a few games and stick to the easier characters.
- God-tier Nurses mostly face god-tier survivors so it balances out
- Most people are, as you said, very bad at this game so the difference between playing a low tier killer and a high tier killer is negligible so you can play whoever you want and still get decent results
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647406#Comment_3647406
Any tier list that places Nurse as S tier, doesn't care about the vast majority of the players. If she really was S tier for the vast majority of players, then her pick rate and kill rate would be way higher.
The percentage of players in this game, where Nurse is literally their highest performing killer, or even their top 3 killers, is so very small. And there are so many players in this game are absolutely terrible at playing her.
That doesn’t make her not S tier though. She’s hard to play but that doesn’t take away from the fact that when played well she is without question the best killer in the game.
Tier lists are generally about how strong a character can be, not about how popular the character is amongst the lower skill players. Every killer is good against bad survivors, so by this logic everyone should be in A tier at the least and pub-stompers like Wraith and Freddy would be S tier.
And even then, Nurse’s difficulty is greatly over exaggerated so I don’t think the ‘hard to play’ excuse is enough to justify her being any lower.
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@JackieShana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647294#Comment_3647294
Ok, I see your point with Trickster and Knight, I'll probably make those changes.
Now, Deathslinger is in an appropriate spot imo, mostly because I can't see any killers bellow him to be any better overall, and from my experience I don't think it's that punitive to miss shots. Good chase, good synergy with the strongest m1 perks, very high skill ceiling (many cheeky shots available). Deseves a bottom B+.
Now, what makes you think Ghostface is B tier? Would you mind explaining? I don't play him a lot, but I think him being a purely m1 killer that gets hurt by coordination more than others (cuz you can constantly reveal him) limits him to that placement.
I agree that Deathslinger is better than the killers below him. I think he should still be above all of them, just at the top of B- rather than the bottom of B+. I personally think missing a shot as Deathslinger is VERY punishing. I've attempted to beat the win streak record with him (which is 30, the lowest of all killers I believe) and I managed to reach 26 wins but that required me to play near perfect every single game. Making one mistake as Slinger can cause the entire game to fall apart because of how bad his map pressure is. Also disagree with him synergising well with M1 perks, aside from Starstruck. STBFL was really good on him, but now he is probably one of the worst users for it. Coup is alright but kind of unnecessary. I do agree he is better than all the other killers below him, but I think his faults just barely keep him in B- for me.
As for Ghostface - I think he is underrated but honestly it's mostly just bias because I've spent hundreds of hours on him haha. The main problem I see Ghostie players do is they spend too long in a chase against a non-marked survivor. If the chase is going on too long, just stalk them a bit and then go find someone else. Even if they are injured still 99 them in case they heal up later and they won't expect it. Don't spend too long in a chase and 99 survivors when ever possible and ambush them at the right time.
As for coordinated teams, yes they are tricky for Ghostface to deal with, but not that much more than the rest of the killers. Play more patiently and often you can catch one of them off guard and lead to a snowball that can win you the game.
Also Coup is insanely good on him and that alone I feel bumped him up the tier list for me. I don't think he is a great killer, but I would personally put him in low B- tier.
Honestly though these are very minor placement differences so I think your tier list is still very accurate either way.
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I would put Trickster in B+ or at least swap him with Doctor.
I also think Deathslinger is a little too high. While he can be very good if you land your shots, one missed shot can lead to you losing the entire game. He’s way too inconsistent for me to say he is B+ tier.
I think Knight should be lower now that people have started to learn how to abuse the guard’s AI.
And this is probably bias, but as a Ghostface main I personally believe he is very underrated and would put him in B tier.
Overall though, this is probably the most reasonable tier list I’ve seen on here.
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Then people would just complain about the other 2-3 killers they only see that they couldn’t block.
Knight, Blight, Nurse and Legion mains would never play a game again. It would just make queue times unnecessarily longer.
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@Quizzy said:
One, it's not "forever", as wiretap has a limit. And two, you are sacrificing your gen progress by doing this which is unwise. Bythe time wiretap is over, if you managed to run them the whole 120 seconds, your gen will be close 0 if you 99'd it.
It takes 360 seconds for a 99'd gen to reach 0. The lowest it will get after 120 seconds is roughly 66%. That's no where near 0.
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Mangled depends on the length of the timer. If it's too short it could become useless but if it's too long then nothing really changed.
Huntress I don't understand why she is here. She's perfectly fine as she is. There are other killers way more in need of help than her. Unless it's just a change to make hatchet hitboxes not so frustrating to play against then it's alright, but if it's just straight buffs then I can see her becoming frustrating to deal with.
Pig I'm kinda scared of seeing buffed. She already can slow the game down a lot, and even more now with Grim Embrace, so if they buff her slowdown in anyway she will just drag games out. Her chase needs buffs but please don't touch her slowdown.
Clown I'm glad to see here but I don't know what I'm expecting from them.
Doctor I hope they make his range and detonation delay add ons base kit. And then adjust some of his add ons so they don't all feel the same.
Demo I'm assuming is here because of the STBFL nerf and this will be some sort of buff to Shred to compensate.
Sloppy... does this mean Sloppy is getting a change on top of the Mangled change? If so I hope it isn't too big of a nerf since it's pretty much the only good generic killer perk now that Jolt and Mind Breaker are no longer universal.
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I only do this if the other 2 survivors were throwing. I feel bad killing someone when they could've won had it not been for Meg throwing because I simply decided to play Xenomorph.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I've hit the limit once using Oppression/Kicks. Evidently Oppression really hated that gen or something.
Oppression doesn’t count as a regression event aside from the one you kicked.
So don’t blame Oppression when you’re the one who hated the gen >:(
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Yep.
And you can’t even rely on the Grim Embrace/DMS meta like the other killers because you just lose your teleport then.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639613#Comment_3639613
I guess I'll just stick to bot matches or give up on the Billy dream lol
I can't do 40 five minute matches to learn a vital aspect of him. I just don't have that kind of time or patience anymore.
Most killers would take less than 40 matches to get somewhat good, the problem is that Hillbilly is just really difficult to play.
Bots are probably the best place to start. You can practice curving in peace and get the muscle memory for the chainsaw charging down. The only problem is that bots don’t teach you how to play against real players. They get zoned out super easily yet can frame perfect dodge certain attacks so it will mess with your practice a bit.
So start with bots to get the muscle memory for curving and rushing, then go into real matches and try to use those skills. You will lose a lot unfortunately, but that’s to be expected of the hardest killer to play.
Also watching streamers who main Hillbilly might be beneficial.
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They’ve stated before that it won’t be a nerf and that none of the killer changes that patch will be as big as the Onryo or Hillbilly reworks.
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It’s awful to play against and hopefully it gets adjusted soon but considering that they still haven’t even acknowledged FtP/Buckle Up, I honestly expect this to remain unchanged for months :/
Grim Embrace should just not trigger DMS and then the perk would be fine for the most part.
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Heck yeah! It’s Alan Wake!
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Just make it so when a gen is blocked it doesn’t count as the survivor letting go of it. This would make it so only Grim Embrace activates and DMS only extends it if the survivors touches it and let’s go again after Grim Embrace wears off.
Or alternatively, make it so only the first effect to block a gen takes effect so similar scenarios don’t occur with other future perks.
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@PogbertChamperson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633136#Comment_3633136
Ultimate weapon still applies blindness even if you have calm spirit. Iron maiden still exposes you as well. Infectious is the only one that i can think of where the whole effect is just screaming. Distortion tokens can run out if you have enough aura reading, or a small TR. These perks are not quite comparable.
Distortion almost never runs out of tokens unless the killer has multiple aura perks. And even then it’s not guaranteed because of how easy it is to get tokens. I guess a stealth killer with multiple aura perks? But then they have less slowdown so it should be an easy game. And it hard counters Lethal Pursuer. You can’t run out of tokens at the start of the game. It’s pretty comparable to Lightborn honestly.
Lightborn is fine. There’s way more important stuff that should be addressed before Lightborn.
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My issue is what would the Thing look like when NOT shape shifting? The true form of The Thing is never shown so would it just always be a survivor? Or maybe defaults to a random killer? Would we finally see what it actually looks like?
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It’s still a good perk and I see it a fair amount.
It’s also still pretty annoying to face but a perk like Dead Hard will always be annoying unless it’s complete garbage, so I think it’s current design is fine as it is.
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It sounds more like Resilience is the issue from your scenario.
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I don’t think a 10 is even enough for me.
At this point I don’t even care if he is weak I just want him to be fun again.
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Moth man!
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Coup de Grace on Ghostface.
Really helps down the exposed survivor faster and you only need to use one stack! And it makes chasing non-exposed survivors more manageable so even if you are struggling to get marks it still gives a lot of value!
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That survivor play style is just straight up throwing. Don’t know if you could get in trouble for that.
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3 gen and Blight nerfs are great for survivor. And Hillbilly buffs mean more Hillbilly players which is honestly the best thing to ever happen to survivor.
New Ormond and the new game mode as well are new content for both sides.
More survivor content to play with would be nice, but personally I prefer them removing the frustrating aspects of survivor rather than add more stuff just for the sake of it.
Honestly more excited for survivor than killer this patch just because there will be no more Alchemist Ring :D
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Saw someone use one of the Teamwork perks earlier and had no idea what it did.
Still don’t know what any of them do.
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It’s a great perk but there’s better Exhaustion perks. It also doesn’t help if you are being tunnelled like the other Exhaustion perks can.
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Let’s you shut your brain off and still do okay in a chase. No need to worry about dead zones or where is safe to run. Gives you value throughout the entire game.
Also good for learning new maps.