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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530230#Comment_3530230
Do the devs not consider a 3k a win? Kill rates don't tell the whole story either (remember old Object of Obsession?) but are more reliable than pick rate.
When i say "overpowered" i mean something that brings to much value or is very strong while having very little meaningful counter play. Like Blight/Nurse/Made For this or the For the People + Buckle Up Combo.
A token system would make NoeD less frustrating without changing its strength much. No objections here.
Being able to Dead Hard for distance was the reason DH was so problematic in the past tough . Fair enough about Lithe and Sprint Burst being usable more times per match. But there are situations where the killer can't afford to wait DH, like when the surv is barely reaching a pallet. Its not that bad/unreliable.
The issue with old CoH was that allowing the whole team to self heal (with one perk slot only and no limit to how many times you could do it) made it too easy to reset and erase the killer's pressure. If the healing penalty is heavy enough it could be fair i suppose. Current med kits have a -33% reduction to self heal speed and are still viable despite limited uses.
Idk is a 3k a win? Because didn't technically 1 survivor escape, so he won? How would you include that in the statistics for perks? By just doing a kill rate per perk? How do you distinguish a single perks kill rate with the other 4? Especially if most of the killers are running the same perks.
MFT has a built in downside, which is that it decentivices using the strongest perks in the game (exhaustion perks). And again these overpowered interactions you described aren't really available to the largest demographic of DBD players, Solo survivors.
I would argue that the very generous "I" frame was the biggest problem with old dead hard. Being able to dead hard to a window, get hit and vault away was not okay. If it were a distance perk today, those would be downs 100% of the time. Same thing with players dead harding in pallets today, those would all be downs if it was a distance perk.
Yes but also CoH's only value was that it allowed for teammates to heal up without needing to work together. CoH did more for Solo survivor than anything they have done in the past 5 years. SWFs don't need CoH, but solo survivor was actually playable while it was usable. Why waste time trying to bless a totem to heal people when you can just run Empathy. CoH is a troll talent right now.
But like I said, the perk changes to survivor are meant to kill those perks. The killer perk changes are much more calculated, with the perk being still usable in mind. I truly believe this is their approach, the data proves it.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529689#Comment_3529689
I don't mind a Self Care buff. But the ability to self heal is pretty strong. Going back to 50% might be too much.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529759#Comment_3529759
I don't like the notion of nerfing something due to popularity. Truly overpowered perks have strengths that can be described and argued. And i haven't seem a good argument as to why Windows of Opportunity is too strong
I am curious about how you would have nerfed those perks (NoeD, CoH, DH) . Also, how is DH only good for cheaters? Aside from the ocasional latency issue DH is very reliable to use in my experience.
Noed spawning close to a hooked survivor is pretty awful. You got a point there. I think its fine otherwise tough.
I don't either but what other metric could they go by? How often killers/survivors "win" with certain perks? The devs can't even decide what constitutes a win, they flop on it constantly. I don't even think I can name a single survivor perk I would consider overpowered. All overpowered survivor interactions require you to be in a party IMO. I think overpowered assumes there is no conterplay, but I can't name a single thing a survivor can do, that a killer can't just counter.
For NoED, I would have used a token system, for each unique hook during the game you get 1 token. When the gates are powered you get an exposed hit for each token. Keep the totem, remove the aura. Survivors would have the choice between trying to tank through the tokens or to cleanse the totem. The perk also loses the free win value, because the killer actually needs to play the gen half of the game now.
For CoH, I would have made it allow for self healing but at a reduced speed. Maybe 70% and have it not increase healing actions for other people. It would just be a self healing totem with reduced speed. Personally I think boon totems should be stronger, but if they get stomped out, the totem should get broken baseline. In a world where that existed, I would have the totem be normal self heal speed, knowing that boon totems are limited.
For Dead hard, I would have made it only a distance perk. Remove the endurance/invisibility frame and just make it so you dash forward a short distance to make something you normally wouldn't. The problem with DH is you now only get 1 use out of it (if the killer is good), they will remember you had DH and just wait it out. Also, if you mess up your first DH, well now you just got zero value out of it. I consider myself a pretty decent video game player, just about every game I play I end up in the top 5-1%. Dead hard is an extremely unreliable perk, I don't care how good you are. It is not physically possible to consistently get value from DH, those people are literally just cheating. If 1 possible DH a game is enough for you to run it though, more power to you. I prefer the bagilllion uses of Lithe and Sprint burst I get every game.
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@Xendritch said:
The survivor meta seems like staying injured and prerunning way earlier than usual and just holding W. It's made chases so dull.
It's crazy what happens when you delete healing.
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The improved vaults definitely made the game feel a little better as a solo survivor main. Sadge.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529618#Comment_3529618
People generally use perks they think are strong (or fun).
According to the Dev's stats Noed and STBFL both have a pick rate of 11%. On the other hand Self-Care has a bigger pick rate of 13% and Windows of Opportunity has 29%. Do you think Self-Care is strong? I would rather not nerf any of these perks as pick rate alone does not tell the whole story.
Noed can be cleansed before it even does anything and after its revealed it becomes a lot easier to find. Its popular right now as a small and not very effective counter to Adrenaline and MfT+Hope.
The killers that can deal with the obsession drawback are not even meta. Demo or Slinger being able to bypass this drawback does not change the fact that they are not over performing even with STBFL. The actual meta killers either do not get good results from this perk or have to deal with the Obsession down side.
Don't get me wrong: Windows/Noed/STFL are not weak or "dead". But they are not strong enough to justify a nerf.
Overcharge is terrible on anyone not named Skull Merchant tough.
I keep hearing about these killers that play for fun or intentionally try to not kill anyone. I would love to play against one.
I'd like to clarify that I am okay with windows getting nerfed, they said they would do this. Nerf overused perks that is, and buff underused ones. I have just noticed that the survivor perk nerfs are much more drastic than killer perk nerfs. There are many ways they could have nerfed dead hard to make it less strong, they picked the one change that makes it only good for cheaters. There are many ways self care and CoH could have been nerfed, they picked the one way that make the perks not worth using.
There are many ways they could have nerfed NoED, they picked the one way that makes it nearly identical in strength. Because the same thing is true, if the totem spawned away from the killer you are fine. If it spawned anywhere near him, sucks to be you.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528987#Comment_3528987
STBFL has plenty of drawbacks. If they nerf it, it wouldn't even be worth running.
Overcharge? Really? That's one of the worst perks in the entire game (and it was already nerfed from 5% to 4%). It actually makes the gen regress slower, and the skill check is easy to hit. I don't think I've missed a skill check from that perk in forever, excepting games against Doctor. If you think that Overcharge is too powerful, you might just need to play the game a little more.
I might agree with you about NOED if it weren't for the presence of Adrenaline. I've seen that at least once a game lately, and it's every bit as bad. Just had a survivor escape after getting downed a literal second before the last gen popped.
Reading the end of your comment, you have to be trolling. They've killed almost every regression perk in the entire game. Dead Hard took four or five years for them to finally nerf, and they gave it two slap-on-the-wrist nerfs in a row. Meanwhile, legitimately game-breaking perks like MfT, BU+FTP, and Adrenaline not only exist, but are run by multiple survivors in every single game.
The drawback on STBFL can be ignored by many killers.
People don't generally run bad perks. Overcharge shows up in a large number of my games.
NoED just gave a wraith 2k when he was on track for 0k.
Again people don't generally run "Dead perks" every game.
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@Sabraiz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528402#Comment_3528402
No, it is not new text.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6QBCDOONBRA2/image.png
It is just old perk description that rose from the grave in preparation for halloween.
Can we stop this outcry of not a "shadownerf" and not make it into a us vs them?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528987#Comment_3528987
They already nerfed pretty much all gen regression perks hard recently.
And complaining about Overcharge? It's a simple skill check, should be roughly the same difficulty as Decisive Strike skillcheck. The one thing I personally think should be changed with Overcharge, is that the skillcheck disappears when the gen reaches 0%.
Cannot imagine how much outcry you would have had with the old NoED, and I do not even mean the old old version.
This topic is about the "shadownerf" of Windows, if you wanna stay on topic.
Windows is going to be nerfed, in the next perk patch, it's the #1 used perk. It's strength doesn't even come close to like the top 20 killer perks value.
You get DS once per game, once, and people miss it. I have watched top tier survivor players miss the skill check. Defending a hard skill check on overcharge is ridiculous. It should have a CD or be slightly larger.
I played during old NoED, it was no different than this. If the totem spawns near the killer in his last chase, that survivor is dead. If it spawns away from the killer, you are fine. Showing the totem did nothing, because the same decision and outcomes exist as the prior NoED.
It wasn't shadownerfed, but it is a planned nerf, no question.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528402#Comment_3528402
Which ones are you thinking of in particular?
And what makes you think they aren't? If Windows of all things is getting a nerf, or at least they're clearly thinking about it, that means that there are a lot of perks on both the survivor and killer sides that are on BHVR's chopping block.
I really can't think of many killer perks that are "overpowered". Deadlock, maybe, but that one's a staple of every M1 killer build since they nerfed Ruin, and I hope they don't change that one without giving us better passive options.
PR is strong in certain circumstances, but you can also really get screwed by RNG when it comes to hook placement, and you get four max uses, and none of them are guaranteed. STBFL gets complained about, but it takes a lot of work to get it maxed out, and you have to ignore one whole survivor for the majority of the match.
NOED probably is overpowered, but so is its survivor mirror perk, Adrenaline. Get rid of that and we'll talk.
Save the best for last has needed a nerf since the base reduction in killers hit cool down.
Overcharge should not apply a skill check every single time you kick a gen.
NoED is still a get out of jail free card.
Regression in general is too abundant and shouldn't be unlimited. So even when they "Nerf" one perk the next in line just replaces it. They tend to be very cautious with killer perk nerfs. While survivor perk nerfs tend to be the death of that perk.
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@CatnipLove said:
It's just a description error. The perk is confirmed to not be changed. Let's stop mourning the perk. It's not dead. It's not even injured.
Yeah but it's new text, so it's likely a planned nerf. I wish overpowered killer perks got as much attention as relatively okay survivor perks.
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@Batusalen said:
It's funny that people still use the "It's a perk for new players" argument to defend WoO. A new player would not even know that such perk exist before seeing it or someone telling them, starting by the fact that it's blocked behind a DLC survivor.
The only truth is that this perk is used by experienced high MMR survivors to extend chases by literally having X-rays and knowing exactly where the unused pallets are, so they can just leave the current unsafe loop to the next one with a guaranteed pallet or literally not loop at all and just go from pallet to pallet, as they know that even then they would "loop" the killer enough for at least 2 gens.
And if a "newer" player use it, the only thing it would do is for him to be able to win chases that he shouldn't (NOED, anybody?) and put a ceiling in his skill building as he don't even need to learn how the maps or looping goes.
So the only bad thing about this is that it is only the description (and that it would be an unannounced nerf, which is not fair), but it is about time that WoO has some kind of drawback instead of just being "X-rays vision for free".
I think if all aura perks (killer and survivor) were removed from the game, it would be a much more enjoyable experience. You get to a point in MMR where stealthing sort of just isn't part of the game anymore. There are way too many ways a killer can get information on your location without ever seeing you. So the way to play ends up being running 10 years before they even get to the gen you were on. I would much rather prefer a game with more hiding than chasing.
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@IHSGames said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527510#Comment_3527510
You dont NEED Teammates to see info about perks YOU have! I never said the killer needs the survivor HUD. I'm saying if killers inflicted Expose or Mangled on a survivor, they should know who they inflicted it to.
My guy youre actively choosing to ignore everything for your own agenda
Was the Survivor HUD added to bridge the gap between Solo and SWF players? Yes or no.
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@IHSGames said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527066#Comment_3527066
"TLDR: Adding this is a waste of resources, they are either things the killers can track in their head..."
"I think showing hook stages would heavily increase getting one person out of the game."
If they can track stuff in their head, whats stopping them from tunnelling the survivor they tracked?
And if killers can make a mental note of certain perks and info and all, then why survivors needed the hud update? They can keep track of Gens, perks, etc. I mean, for the past 6 years thats how it worked.
And you dont need Teammates to get info. Literally its info for you. Thats like playing a single player game and going "you dont need to know if this enemy poisoned you. You have no teammates" but its basic game knowledge for us to know. Why we have to literally rely on CHANCE to know if our perk has effect?
Literally, perks are getting nerfed or rated low tier all because theres so little info you can get to even utilize it in the first place. If killers have this info, we can also use it to actually balance perks and stuff due to them acruallt having the ability to utilize it to its fullest.
And this isnt a massive buff to killer. Its literally info. No perks have been buffed or anything. This HUD update just allows killers to play smarter. And if youre genuinely tripping about killers playing smarter, literally saying "nah its better if they have to randomly predict a perk/add ons effect because theyll be strong" I hate to say this, but thats a genuine skill issue in your end.
Well MMR was added for the low end players. Adding hook stages would drastically increase tunneling at the low end. It makes sense that they wouldn't want that type of game play for people just starting out in the game. If you think a hook stage counter wouldn't increase tunneling, I can't take you seriously. Of course it would increase tunneling.
The survivor HUD is information you normally wouldn't have access to as a solo player, that SWFs can communicate to each other easily. I typed this out above, multiple times. I swear you guys aren't reading anything I type out. You are just assuming my stance and spouting out gibberish.
I don't understand what you are saying about perks. Solo survivors still run information perks like empathy/bond/kindred because the HUD was a laughable addition to the game. Killers are running slow down because it allows for the most mistakes in game play. I still see aura builds from time to time (on killer), but those killers are generally chill and don't care about 4king.
Again it depends on what you would include in the HUD and when it would give you info. All things I typed out above. I don't have a problem with a lot of things added to a killer HUD, but it seems like a waste of development time if you can just keep track of those things in your head.
I will type this out again for the 100th time at this point. The survivor HUD is information you WOULDN'T NORMALLY HAVE ACCESS TO AS A SOLO PLAYER. KILLERS DON'T HAVE TEAMMATES.
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@IHSGames said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525979#Comment_3525979
I've read this whole discussion and this is coming from a pure survivor main. I rarely ever play killer but let me say this.
Killers having a HUD for info wont improve kill rates. It will only make killers play more smarter with the info they recieve. And with survivors knowing that, survivors will be more cautious with their plays. Adapting to the fact that they have know info and can utilize it fully. This will greatly improve killer players game sense as well as survivors since they actually have to be smart about their plays.
Yes, killer is the easiest it is right now, but literally DBD has so much basic game stuff missing from it, including a HUD for info (on the killer side) imagine if survivors were able to know when they were exposed, or affected by a hex, or add-on? You would say "survivors should know this info. Its a basic right" same for killers.
Really, some of yall just want free wins. Anything thay improves either side is an issue. Yall need to stop having this mindset or both sides will never improve.
It would depend on what it shows and when.
I think showing hook stages would heavily increase getting one person out of the game.
Showing endurance status effects and the perk isn't a big deal if it's after the hit takes place. But showing endurance status effects while it's active before a hit can be made, would be a lot.
Asking to see survivors movemen speed or perks is kind of a lot though. You can make a huge judgement call at that point to just go for weaker links. I think if this was implemented it would also need to show from the killer side as well. Which means survivors would instantly know if you were running things like NoED or Devour hope.
Showing any type of status effect in the HUD that is applied through things like TVs or SM bots would be insane buffs to those killers. So devs would have to carefully pick and choose status effects that wouldn't give free info.
Things like mangled and hemo after a person is hit is not a big deal, showing exposed is also not that big of a deal. There aren't that many cases of exposed that would be a huge advantage aside from N. Cages perk.
You would have to be careful which status effects would not give the killer instant information on players. It's a lot of work for not that big of a pay off. I would much rather time go towards balancing maps and reworking low tier killers.
Everyone keeps missing the point that the survivor HUD is giving info survivors normally wouldn't get in soloQ but would get in a SWF. A killer does not have teammates. Any information that is available to the killer they have access to.
TLDR: Adding this is a waste of resources, they are either things the killers can track in their head or massively game breaking buffs to killer.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526548#Comment_3526548
Well, hook stages wouldn't encourage tunneling in first place. It doesn't make any sense why it should. If I want to tunnel, I know who to chase. It would make it easier for players to go for 8 hooks instead, which is good thing.
Main HUD change I want to see is simply perk feedback.
Survivor didn't got down with Endurance effect? Tell ke what perk did it
Survivor is faster than should be in chase? Tell ke what perk did it
That really wouldn't increase kill rates.
Nightlight is a person, but also a website.... Everyone can upload their game data there, it's most correct data we have and it says kill rate is nowhere near as high.
Then what you are asking for is baseline game changes not just for killer but for survivor too.
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@pandorayr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526550#Comment_3526550
Now players on soloQ have in-game info about who repairs generators, runs away from the killer etc, it's time to nerf SWF and I think this information should not be available to SWF players.
What? I am talking about reduce the time it takes to repair each gen. For example if everyone in the lobby was in a party each gen would take 100 seconds baseline. Where as if each person in the lobby was solo the gens would each take 80 seconds. Each solo survivor in the match would reduce the repair time of the generators.
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They already have the tuning knob for balancing solo and SWF, and it's generator repair time. Make it so for each solo survivor in the lobby the generator repair time is reduced by 5 seconds. Increase and reduce numbers as needed but it is an incredibly easy fix to make. There is no reason there should be the difference in power that there is right now. Especially because the developers keep balancing the game around SWFs and making the game more and more miserable for the average player.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526312#Comment_3526312
It's funny how you keep jumping between topics.
You said average kill rate is over 60%. How did you get that number? Not difficult question.
Nightlight website are not his games, everyone can upload their results. It's basically replacement for dev's data... So it's best statistic we currently have.
Top tier Nurse will have near 100% win rate, we know that from SupaAlf, top tier SWF will also get near 100% win rate. So what's the problem? Both sides have nuclear options, but you want to gatekeep only one side, which is the side you don't play....
I didn't get 61%, BHVR recorded an average of a 61% kill rate and released it for all of us to see. People keep saying "It doesn't matter they released it too long ago". But it's literally the last data they gave us on kill rates.
I am not jumping between topics I am simply responding to the criticism of the killer mains in this thread.
Nightlight is one person. 61% kill rate is literally every single game ever played for the time period that they recorded it for it. We are talking about the difference between hundreds of thousands of recorded games versus 1000. We should be getting new BHVR statistics in September, if they don't chicken out, because they are going to look very ugly. So if they don't release stats know that it's because the kill rate is much worse than I have typed out here.
The problem is, the average player is not a SWF or a top tier nurse player. They are a soloQ survivors who lose nearly 3 out of 4 games. I play plenty of killer, I have reached Iri 1 multiple times. I have adept on a vast majority of the killers. There are changes I would love to make to both sides.
HUD changes for killer not only seems like a complete waste of time, it seems either entirely useless or completely broken. Depending on which information you decide to give the killer. There is a reason they don't let you see hook stages, they don't want to encourage tunneling anymore than it already is.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525979#Comment_3525979
Oh right, because that's how statistics work...
Ayrun got to grade 1 as soloQ in hardcore series, so I guess it's not that bad if you are good player.
From all kill rates data by BHVR I remember, there were usually only 1/2 killers on 6O% kill rates and they were usually new killers where survivors didn't know how to handle them. Rest was going all the way to 50%, sometimes lower.
So you basically cherrypick data that fits your narrative...
Nightlight shows data from last month, which is currently 25,392 games. That highly beats your 10 games in validity.
Yeah and did you see how how he did it? He played for hatch more than half the time. So for most games he didn't even attempt to "win".
You choosing to play a weak killer with weak perks doesn't change the fact that you have the ability to win 3/4s of the time. What do you think the kill rate of a juiced blight or nurse is at the top end? Probably in the 80s or 90s. I don't have a problem with weak killers getting buffed or unused perks getting buffed. I have a problem with people asking for BLANKET killer buffs when there are killers capable of winning 90% of the time.
Nightlight regularly plays against 4 man squads, his data if anything should represent only what you can do as a top tier killer against top tier survivors. If he played against the average solo lobby he would 4k nearly every single lobby.
I said play 10 games, 10 games is all it would take to see that survivor is not easy right now. I play killer for challenges and rituals, so pretty often. I played an endgame doctor build last week, so I had no perks before generators were completed. Well I 4kd them before they even finished the gens. I 4kd on doctor with zero perks. A killer who is considered B tier. The game has literally never been easier on killers. Whenever a challenge calls for me to sacrifice 4 players in one lobby I load up my bubba camp build and complete it on try 1.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525772#Comment_3525772
What kill rates?
Except Sadako and Skully, highest current Kill rate is 56,62%
Nightlight is definitely not optimal, but definitely better than your "trust me bro" source....
Everyones homework in this thread is to play 10 games of solo survivor. I am not asking you to "trust me bro" the 61% killrate came directly from behavior. You have the same problem as the last dude, you don't read.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525917#Comment_3525917
I didn't ask for a behavior statement on why survivor hud got updated, i asked you to provide a valid argument as to why killers getting a hud update would increase killrates.
I've asked this of you for 4-5 posts and you keep missing the mark.
*provide a valid argument as to why a killer hud update would increase killrates*
You might want to get checked for reading comprehension, because I have provided more than plenty. As much as I would like to sit here and keep writing the same sentences over and over and over again. You read the words I wrote but did you really read the words I wrote? I don't think so.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525910#Comment_3525910
1. Only thing you did was complain about "kill rates"
2. Bringing up "thematics" and "gameplay wise" out of nowhere makes no sense.
3. What even is "rat intentions"? Expand and elaborate on this.
4. Same could be said about survivor hud, survivors should also be able to keep track of their hook states , if their teammates are on gens, etc etc. This is a fundamentally invalid argument.
Again, provide us an argument that supports the concept that a killer hud would "increase kill rates"
Bro, BHVR literally gave a statement of why survivor got a HUD overhaul. I have said it at least 14 times in this thread alone. That on it's own should completely negate any argument you have for a killer HUD. KILLERS DON'T HAVE TEAMMATES.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525905#Comment_3525905
No one is asking for that, i asked you to provide a valid argument as to why status effect info and hook counters would increase kill rates.
I have provided several. One it makes no sense thematically or game play wise. Two it would buff the already power house side of the game. Three it would be abused by killers with rat intentions in mind. Four it's a waste of development time if it's things you should already be able to keep track of.
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If they aren't going to address slugging they should at the very least let survivors bleed out faster on the ground.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525873#Comment_3525873
Give me a valid argument as to why killers being given basic status effect info would "raise the kill rates"
Basekit bt? Killers can already count to 10, having the status shown on the hud would only help new killers.
OTR? Experienced killers can tell if OTR is in play when the survivor is dead silent after unhook, it would only help new killers.
Haste? Experienced killers can already tell if the survivor has haste due to heavy muscle memory. It would only help new killers understand why survivor x is running faster than him.
The only thing all killers would benefit is knowing which of the million of endurance giving perks the survivors have. Was this endurance from mft? Buckle up? Soul guard? WGLF? Styptic?
Whats the hook counter for killer going to do? If a killer wants to tunnel he just needs to hook meg until death, counter won't assist in tunneling and experienced killers can already keep a mental note of whos on death hook and who isn't.
Bridge the gap when it comes to basic game knowledge between high level and low level players and then bhvr can properly balance the core game.
You guys are coped out of your mind. Why stop there? Show the killer everyones perks in the lobby ffs.
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@G_Hunters said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525864#Comment_3525864
You are losing me here right now,I don't get what you mean.
This is just a topic regarding a better info situation about the perks usages on the killers,it is an "objective" thing that they could do with an improvement right now,and I explained why before.
As a community,we should all be happy and unite when talking about improvements like this.
Leave the killrates out,you do not know what they are currently,just focus on the fact that it can be a nice improvement,just like what happened with the survivors hud update,wich was a needed addition and it can still be improved.
You can't leave the killrates out. I am losing you because you know I am right. You can't give the killers more info without them becoming stronger. Every single one of you also keeps ignoring the silmple fact of why they added the survivor HUD in the first place. Killers don't have teammates, why would they get a HUD lol.
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@G_Hunters said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525768#Comment_3525768
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525772#Comment_3525772
You are over reacting or misunderstanding the point of this topic,the purpose here is not about buffing the killers,but just to provide more info on what is happening,to make the game feel more clear and less frustrating and to better understand what is going on. This is already a reality with perks like decisive strike,when a killer gets hit by this perk,it gets notified about it,that is all,nobody is asking to make it clear from the start if a survivor is using a certain perk,but only at the moment of the activation (or even,as an example,to know better when someone is affected by the mangled or exposed status).
Regarding the game being in the strongest killer era ever,even here,I think you misunderstand the meaning behind this affirmation when it gets said by someone,it's true that nowadays,killers have a much more balanced experience compared to the past (infinite loops etc),but that does not mean that is yet a "fine" experience,there are still a lot of problems about this role that need to be adressed (maps being still the biggest issue,followed by the unviabiity of more than half of the characters roster).
And about the kill rates,again,what are you talking about?
The stats you are probably refering to,are outdated by a year,they are completely unreliable in the current state of the game,forget about those.
If you think that I am just someone who is biased to maining one role,know that I play both sides.
I think that solo queue could still do with some more improvements,it just needs a bit more of info,maybe make some more perks basekit,like bond,kindred or windows of opportunity (of course,a smaller version of them,just so that it would not be pointless to run those in a build).
So if you are saying a killer HUD would have no impact on kill rates. Would you also agree that the survivor HUD overhaul did nothing for survival rates?
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525844#Comment_3525844
I hope this is only if no other survivor is near. I see so many survivors that are in chase and run straight to the hook, or just run around the fresh hook. They shoulndt be rewarded for that.
That's the point of it taking awhile to lose your power, it only affects you if you have been camping for awhile.
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I think Otz proposed change is the best solution for camping. If a killer is within 24 meters of a hooked survivor his power is disabled over 10 seconds and replenishes over 10 seconds of being outside the 24 meters.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525837#Comment_3525837
It's all hearsay and anecdotes until we get more up to date figures.
My experience as solo sits around 50-55%.
When I was recording stats before the recent healing nerfs I was getting 63%. I stopped adding on to that patch of games because it felt like too much had changed. I currently don't have enough games to provide a reliable number.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525818#Comment_3525818
They said specifically the averages for solo and SWF were 10% apart. Meaning that SWF was somewhere around 56-57% and solo survivor was around 65-66%. So with the increase over the past few months we would see them nearly reach 70% today. I don't want to be mean but, you don't understand how statistics work.
You're assuming an equal number of solo and SWF. The devs have also revealed previously that around 15% of survivors are SWF, and a smaller proportion of those are 4-man SWF.
If we try to simplify things a little and presume that 90% of survivors are pure solo and 10% are pure 4-man groups, and ignore any 2/3-man possibilities, then that would mean with a 61% average kill rate, Solo have a kill rate of around 62% and SWF 52%.
While the scenario you described is possible we won't know unless they release those numbers separately, which I don't think they will. I think a 60% kill rate is pushing it, and I think we are without question sitting at at least a 65% on solo survivor today. I think BHVR is in trouble if they don't address it soon, TCM has been a breath of fresh air for just about anyone who has played it.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525797#Comment_3525797
There is so much wrong there I don't even know where to start...
Mind to explain how tunneling has got easier when they implemented a free Endurance and Haste for 10 seconds on unhook?
Do you realize that the kick gen meta was a result of survivors gen rush meta? And that this last one has not being touched nearly enough in all this time and is one of the reasons that M1 killers can do nothing right now, as survivors finish all 5 gens in 5 minutes or less even when you are constantly doing hooks?
Also, did you not know that the healing nerf did absolutely nothing? Because it was going to be the solution to the gen rush meta without touching gen times anymore: Survivors pressure killers by doing gens, killers pressure survivor by hurting them instead of regressing gens with perks. But at the end, because survivors literally review bombed the game in Steam, they only nerfed self heal and it resulted in don't affecting gen times in the slightest and gen regression is dead.
The 61% was an average, so it being an average means that 10% difference between SoloQ and SWF is included. So no, SoloQ don't have a 70% death rate, has a 61% on average like everyone else.
You can bet whatever you want, we don't know right now. But, if you want to bet, I bet you that the killrates for any M1 killer have dropped significantly since survivors started using MFT + Resiliance, Buckle Up + FTP, and all the other things they have right now. Also, the number of players picking killer, even more so since TCM released.
The nerf to
just a fewall regression perks what did is, again, exacerbate the gen rushing problem as now killers don't have any other tool to pressure survivors that isn't slugging, tunneling or 3genning if they don't want to let the gens get done by the time they are going to do their 3º hook.The endurance "cheese" work with anyone as again, the perks grant them just for breathing. You have healed someone as you would do anyways? Here, endurance for you and your friend!
STBFL is one of the most balanced perks right now, making the killer to even have to sacrifice hooks and hits if he wants to maintain his tokens most of the game.
3gens are only possible if survivors let the killer have those 3gens. A killer can try to defend them since the start, but is survivors choice to let him do so.
A camping Bubba is as easy to beat as just doing gens. Anyway, I don't know how one killer being able to do viable an strategy that of course is not allowed in the Holy Survivor's Rulebook is proof that killers in general are OP, but you do you.
The game being "easier" for killers, or in other word, being more balance right now than before doesn't means that it is totally balanced or that killers are OP.
So, if you would be smart, not biased or really wanted a balanced game, you at least won't mind killers getting something that AGAIN, should have being in the game since the beginning. But, here you are.
Tunneling with 5 second DS prevented 90% of instances of tunneling. Today if a killer hits the person who is unhooked whether intentionally or accidentally, they tunnel them 100% of the time. Also no perks work in end game anymore to help with this. So it is unquestionably easier. I played survivor before DS got nerfed, tunneling happened once a day, now it happens nearly half of the time.
Gen rushing meta? After the generators take longer to do and BNP got nerfed to a point of them not being worth it? That doesn't make sense. I can play trapper today, the worst killer, sit at a 3 gen and prevent the team from ever finishing one.
The healing nerf was so bad, that people stay injured and run perks that work while injured. You basically get 1 heal a game and if the killer pressures hook heals you just instantly lose. It's pretty normal now to get injured 1 minute in and be injured for the rest of the game.
They said specifically the averages for solo and SWF were 10% apart. Meaning that SWF was somewhere around 56-57% and solo survivor was around 65-66%. So with the increase over the past few months we would see them nearly reach 70% today. I don't want to be mean but, you don't understand how statistics work.
I have played many games with the perks you listed. 9 times out of 10 I get zero value. I don't think MFT ever got me a pallet or window I shouldn't have. FTP and Buckle up are useless in most solo survivor lobbies. From what I have seen in TCM the game is much closer to being a 50/50 and survivors are finding it way more enjoyable. So what you are probably seeing is the survivors moving over to that game.
Eruptions regression is still the same. For most players the change to Pain resonance was actually a buff. Overcharge is still ridiculously overpowered, the skill check needs to go or have a CD. The build with Plaything + Pentimento is so broken the smartest thing to do is never cleanse your totems. But in a solo survivor setting you won't get everyone to do this, so it's just an instant loss. Jolt should also be adjusted based on the size of the map. You shouldn't be able to consistently hit 3-4 gens like you can on maps like the game.
Again, I am well above the MMR cap, I have never see anyone running this build, only streamers. In most of my games the killer auto picks up or is smart enough to hit you away from the downed survivor.
STBFL should not work around hooks, it is way too strong when it comes to camping. It should also not be able to be circumvented by killer powers. Being able to keep stacks very high on killers like Deathslinger and Demo is too much. But again in a SWF setting you would call it out and pressure with the obsession, in solo games you don't have that ability. Deathslinger is my second favorite killer, with enough stacks I can M1 you and then also M2 you before you can make it to anything.
This is wrong, I played against a doctor a few days ago. There was a very strong 3 gen in the corn field, he stood directly in the middle of them from the start of the game till the end. We lost, he had zero hooks at 1 gen. Killers can force a 3 gen from the start.
I have videos of me playing Bubba and securing 4ks by simply camping the hook. You run Deadlock, Corrupt intervention, No way Out, NoED. Get a down in a reasonable amount of time and camp, on average you get a 2-3k whether they try to save or rush gens. There is little they can do, thank god camping is dying at some point soon.
It depends on what balance the developers want, do they want it to be normal for survivors to escape once every 4 matches? Then we struck balance. But if they want you escaping half the time, we are very far from that.
The information you want in the HUD is either something you can simply see yourself or something that breaks the game fundamentally. In both situations it doesn't make sense to add to the game. Because again, THE ONLY REASON survivors got a HUD is beacuse they want it to be a team game. And they found that soloQ survivors try to hide to escape way too much.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525772#Comment_3525772
You mean the killrates that they released 1 year ago? The ones that showed that killers was just doing fine and was the first time they get to that point in the devs own words? Because 60% killrate means 40% winrates for both sides, as for a killer only a 3K is a win.
So, in any case, we live in the "killer are doing fine for the first time since the game released era" by that logic. Yet again, that was 1 year ago, before survivors got haste for days and 7 endurance perks that grants it for breathing.
61% killrate before tunneling got easier. Before the kick gen meta was out of control. Before survivor healing was massively nerfed. It is without a question over 65% at this point. Mind you the 61% was for everyone, and they said the solo/SWF kill rate was nearly 10% difference. Meaning soloQ survivors had a 65% death rate, BEFORE it got as bad as it is right now. I would bet money that if you seclude the Solo survivor death rate for the past 2 months, it would be between 65-70%.
The only nerf to killers since the changes were just a few regression perks, and all it did was rearrange which perks killers use. They didn't actually lose any power. The endurance cheese only works in SWFs so the other 90% of games you play you don't even experience it. Save the best for last is still hilariously over powered. You can still camp a 3 gen and never leave it and 4k. You can play bubba camp build and guarantee 3-4k by standing at the hooks. The game has never been easier on you.
If you were smart you would be proposing solutions to bring SWFs down a peg and soloQ survivors up a few. Instead you are just asking for more blanket killer buffs.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525768#Comment_3525768
Oh yes, the strongest killer era! That's why there is killers just stopping playing the game or playing survivor, and the few that still submits to the pain that is playing against the Hitproof Usain Bolts with Xrays that survivors are right now can only do that with a few killers, as any killer without chasing power would struggle to even get a 2K.
But again, is not asking for a buff, is asking for something that should have being in the game since the beginning. Just like the survivor's HUD icons. Nothing more, nothing less.
The kill rates massively disagree with your perception of the game.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525761#Comment_3525761
That doesn't mean that it should be shown all the time, even less when they are not in effect. Seriously, what you are on about?
And yes, they would be able to turn those into info, which is the whole point for it! That killers doesn't have any info to work with at the time to make decisions! Most killers don't even have a crosshair for their powers and have to develop muscle memory for use them correctly, for the fog's sake.
I am on about. You are asking for a huge buff to killer, during the strongest killer era EVER in dbd.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525724#Comment_3525724
Tell me exactly where I said such thing, much so taking in count that Endurance is one of the few status effect that has visual feedback even if it is only when you hit someone that has it.
Isn't that what you are asking for though? To see peoples status effects like haste and endurance. Which would allow you to completely ignore people who run MFT and Hope in the end game. Being able to see if people are blinded/oblivious would also be extremely powerful on killers like Sadoko and Skull merchant who would be able to turn those into info.
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Killers when the game is almost survivor sided in one situation on one map.
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Same, my favorite build is a locker build with blastmine/flashbang. I wish meme builds got more love. Head on is unusable the second a killer knows you have it, they can even open lockers from the side where you won't even hit them with it. Blast mine resetting even if they don't kick the gen also feels really bad. It should either be permanent or give it back to you.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525476#Comment_3525476
I said what I said, and the purpose of having visual feedback on status effect would be being able to make informed decisions about the effects survivors are affected with. Again, like in any videogame you can think off.
Just imagine if you won't be able to see any affect if a Paladin in WoW used Divine Shield, which makes it immune to all damage for 8 seconds. Or Reyna using Dismiss in Valorant, which does the same for 2 seconds.
"Why I'm not making any damage? Have they used something that makes them invulnerable? I'm lagging? Are they hacking? Should I keep trying to kill them or just try to flee?"
That's why in both cases they have a visual effect so any player looking in their direction can know they are affected by a buff, so you can identify it, know exactly what are affecting them and give you the opportunity to adapt to that situation. That, and it also makes the game more immersive as you can see visually how your abilities affect you and others:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NLTHQM13EEC9/587489.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LUI6OU5JUSHJ/dismiss-activation.jpg
In fact, in WoW you can always see what buffs and debuffs are affecting you, other players or NPCs with icons besides they having visual effects:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BO5BG3T1YZ52/9neyjvq1dss31.jpg
What we have in DbD to allow us to even know that our powers and debuffs are affecting the survivors or the gens? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We can't even know how many times we have hooked a survivor as we don't even have the counter as survivors do. Ironically enough, survivors do receive all this information including the details of the effect the killer applying it don't, like how much corruption The Plague have applied to a survivor.
So, there you have it. The reasons to why we need "a HUD" is so we can adapt to the situation and made informed decisions based on what effects survivors are affected with, because it is absurd that I can not see if the survivor I'm chasing is still affected by that exposed effect I applied to him, because we need to be able to know if our perks are even working correctly or there is something wrong, because it will allow us to be able to differentiate better if someone has a Haste effect or is speed hacking, and because is tiresome to have to rely to memory to even know if it was the Meg that we are chasing the one that is at last hook or is one of the other two Megs in the game. And on top of all that, because it is something that should have being in the game since the beginning, just like the survivors's HUD icons.
Also, I think you don't even know what a "HUD" is. We already have a HUD. Every game have a HUD. What killers need is more info on that HUD.
What you are asking for is the ability to see endurance status effects so you can avoid making a mistake. Which in turn almost entirely negates the power that those perks have, which is not knowing they have them. Imagine if NoED told the survivors it was active at the start of the match, you would never use the perk again. There is a reason that info is not made available to you.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525325#Comment_3525325
The only reason survivors got the HUD Icons besides that it should have being in the game since the beginning is because people won't stop complaining about SoloQ being in disadvantage because they were unable to coordinate and that's why they lost so many games. So, now they can see how they lose because their teammates didn't touch a generator all game while still complaining about how BHVR is babying killers.
Taking that in count, I think that asking for something that also should have being in the game since the beginning, visual feedback about status effects like in any other game, is not that much.
What I recommended in the day were literally visual effects, both for status effect affecting survivors and perks affecting generators (i.e. A sea wave effect on top of a generator affected by CoB, black fog effect in front of the eyes of survivors affected by Oblivious, etc.) so both killers and survivors can make informed decisions around the different effects affecting them.
But to be real, even some icons in the HUD along a hook counter (seriously, why I have to still memorize what survivor I have hooked and how many times) would be appreciated at this point. Any QoL improvement for killers would be.
So what you are saying is they added the survivor HUD to bridge the gap between soloQ and SWF which if I remember correctly was over a 10% difference in kill rate between SWFs and SoloQ squads. And the purpose of the killer HUD would be to do what? Bring the 65% kill rate to 70%?
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@IHSGames said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525311#Comment_3525311
Im not saying Killers should see survivors' version of the HUD, I'm saying killers should at least see what killer related effects they applied to whichever survivor on the HUD. I think its possible
You aren't understanding. The only reason survivors get a HUD, is because BHVR wants us to help our teammates.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525305#Comment_3525305
This would increase lobby-dodging 10x
Every time I enter a lobby killers dodge 2-3 times before it starts. They will dodge regardless of how much info you give them. Let the dodgers dodge. If Texas Chainsaw Massacre can handle no DC penalty with SWFs being shown, so can DBD.
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Survivors get a hud because were supposed to be working as a team. The killer does not get a hud, it never will.
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As a survivor main. The killer should be able to see SWFs in lobbies. The killer should get scaling blood points for each partied survivor in the lobby. Generator repair time should be reduced for each solo survivor in the game.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519203#Comment_3519203
I don't know "they" but I used to play all killers. I was enjoying Huntress a lot and I was playing her more than any other.
Then MFT happened.
Now I exclusively play Nurse and Blight.
Yeah and I am saying, for years now, eventually your MMR just becomes nurses and blights. This isn't new.
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The only way we get survivor changes is if we all swap to killer or stop playing entirely. We have been asking for a fix to 3 gens for years. The easiest fix to 3 gens, would be to simply make it so the same gen can't be regressed a billion times. Cap regression, it's common sense it shouldn't be unlimited.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519509#Comment_3519509
Trust me it’s actually very good. If you stun the killer and run in a straight line they will never catch you(unless it’s nurse, blight, huntress, slinger or wesker). Combined with resilience of you know how to loop there’s a chance the killer will never catch up
It feels like a win more perk, in that you were probably safe to begin with. Hope on the other hand is definitely noticable, running both for sure noticeable. But in todays DBD climate, if you made it to end game there is a 75% chance you are going to live. I could list several perks I would run before I would run MFT. I think the only situation I would run MFT would be to do meme games with friends. But they all quit when the killers got buffed a year ago.
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519500#Comment_3519500
I dunno. I think they did well with the hype. I was hyped up for it, as a lot of people were. It took a while to get my early access key, but they did a good job of rolling it out to various storefronts and game streaming services and had Linux/Steam Deck support before DBD did.
I think the real problem is that they didn't spend any of that early access time fixing the things wrong with the game, and the direction they took it didn't deliver an experience that lived up to said hype.
I think they were actually pretty brilliant with their marketing strategy and making the game accessible. The game itself was the problem.
One more complaint: Also, controller support was horrible for this game. At least in DBD, where controller support is still not perfect on all killer, I can still hit a survivor who's trying to 360 me if I time it right, but getting 360'd in VHS was a whole different animal and made the game completely unplayable.
My entire friend group was excited to play it, we learned that none of us had access to play it. We waited, waited some more, then completely forgot about it. I think that is the average experience for most people who heard about VHS.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519501#Comment_3519501
The problem isn’t the endurance it’s the fact that you can be faster than a m1 killer with no requirement and no skill.
I know it’s going to be nerfed. Probably this midchapter
I don't actually have a problem if they cap movement speed for both sides when it comes to stacking haste effects. The problem is, I don't think the movement speed is enough to warrant running MFT. I ran it a few games and didn't really notice it at all. There are too many very strong perks to run in it's place as a solo survivor.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519498#Comment_3519498
Everyone on the forum thinks killers always get nerfed fast but it took them 10 months to nerf the gen kick meta. Nurse is still the same strong killer even after all the nerfs. Blight doesn’t get nerfed at all. Spirits MDR took 5 years to be nerfed.
the only point they have is Thanatophobia but that had a reason to be nerfed cause it caused the game to be unfun and a slog to play
It's funny you mention the gen kick meta getting nerfed, I just played against a wraith with 4 kick perks. He 4kd us with 3 gens left. Even the nerfs they give out to killer are minuscule to a point of having no impact at all.
Think about the nerfs to DS and Dead hard, literally dead perks. In the meantime, everytime a killer perk is nerfed, it's like a 5-10% nerf to the perk. Watch they are going to entirely take off the endurance effect on MFT.
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They messed up pretty hard with the hype. They made a few very big mistakes early on that cost them any potential to build a player base. The first was putting out the beta well before any launch date. The length of time was excessive. The second was how they handled giving out keys, and the time in between of giving out more keys to play beta. The game was essentially dead before it launched.