Ayodam
Ayodam
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Looks like her oppressive playstyle was her undoing. Cest la vie.
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@totallynotamegmain, the candelabras are a new item for the mode. You can place them on generators to show other survivors the location of your generator, or use them like flashlights to see a bit into the dark (a few meters in front of you). The killer can destroy them if they’re on generators.
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They’re like Nurse in that they aren’t blocked by objects—including floors.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795609#Comment_3795609
5 hooks. 3 on one person (tunneled) and one on me and another.
Doesn’t sound like a baby, especially if he was able to take down two people with so many hours. I’m betting it’s someone who migrated an account over.
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@Nazzzak said:
They won't. I guarantee the escape rate on the last Lights Out was crazy bad, that's why survivors are getting so many buffs
Killer main hysteria. I seriously doubt anything like what they’re doing with Lights Out makes it to base game. They might do something to further deter camping and tunneling (maybe in the form of new perks), but they’re unlikely to tweak any basekit features. Like you I think they’re trying to encourage more survivors to play Lights Out.
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EoB does not work with OoO or any other aura-based perk that does not function based on time.
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Could be lobby dodging… but also that person could have migrated their account from another platform. I think that resets the hours (kinda). How did the killer perform?
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795576#Comment_3795576
I already don't survive most matches. A large number of my teammates go down in about five seconds as is, there won't be any change there. But the majority of survivors running Distortion right now in my matches do nothing but hide along the edges. If anyone escapes, it's them, through a hatch, because by not participating they've ensured 5 gens won't get done and everyone else will die. Those are my Distortion-running teammates, and I'm sick of it. They'll never get better at anything because they don't try, they don't participate. The ones who go down five seconds in a chase will either hopefully get better over time or move to a different game.
This is a frighteningly pessimistic response
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795453#Comment_3795453
^ This. Distortion as it is is unhealthy. It helps you hide and you regain stacks by hiding, encouraging a one-note gameplay style that hurts the team. I'm tired of having Distortion-using teammates who hide around the edges of the map and are totally useless. Distortion should regain stacks when in chase. Engaging with the killer is an important part of the game.
@Massquwatt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795449#Comment_3795449
All they gotta do is make it so you earn stacks through chases and just adjust the numbers so you can get the stacks back through a respectable amount of time. It's all it needs really, doing so will greatly incentivize people to engage with the killer so they aren't sitting on gens all much hogging up the hook states.
I don’t have a problem with Distortion as killer or survivor so no dogs in the fight but I am curious. When those players still don’t engage the killer or they’re downed in 6 seconds will you two be back on the forums complaining about how you can’t escape trials because other survivors can’t last in chase?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795024#Comment_3795024
Distortion is a poor man's OoO
This is the problem right here.
Every single one of the "replacement" perks you mentioned is licensed. So anti-aura is simply, and literally, pay to win after distortion inevitably gets deleted.
Technically Distortion has to be purchased via Jeff. I wouldn’t call OoO or SP equivalent as they don’t block aura reading, they just reveal the killer’s aura during times when the killer can see that survivor’s aura.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794682#Comment_3794682
That a 50% escape rate is fair. I just said that.
And no, survivors don't make up the lions share of consumers, unless you're assuming all players only play one role.
Survivor characters sell more cosmetics than killer characters. This is my point. People don’t buy survivor cosmetics as collector’s items; they buy them to see, enjoy, and show them off. It doesn’t really matter if they play one or both roles in this regard; survivor characters make up the lion’s share of BHVR’s profit. If people are unhappy with the survivor experience and thereby do not wish to play survivor, they’re unlikely to continue buying survivor-based cosmetics. That is my point.
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I’ve only seen it on survivor as well, even late into the night. I’m not sure if or when it tips to killer in my region but the survivor-only bonus is lasting longer than it did before 2v8 was introduced.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794672#Comment_3794672
When we're talking about why players feel a certain way, I think what players feel is probably relevant.
Its probably also relevant to the people who want their consumer base to enjoy their product.
Sure. So what do survivors feel? These are the people who make up the lion’s share of consumers, no?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794662#Comment_3794662
Only if you consider each game to be 4 1v1s and each survivor kill/escape a discrete result.
This might be how the game has to function behind the scenes, but players don't think this way. Survivors, even solo, still strive to rescue team mates, and don't generally consider it a "win" if they escape solo while their 3 teammates die. And killers don't look at a 2K and think "I won 50%", a 2K means the gates are open, which is a failure to secure your secondary objective, which is a loss. Killers don't count their wins by the number of survivors they kill in an evening, they count their wins by the number of games that result in a win. Games are treated as wholes, not a group of individual 1v1s.
The format of the game is built around an all-or-nothing goal. You can't win by just repairing some of the gens, you need to repair all 5 to escape, there are no half measures. So you can't peicemeal it into 4 1v1s when it comes to player experience and win perception.
The asymmetrical nature of the game also extends to the win condition of the game. The win condition is asymmetrical. For this reason an average win:loss for killer would actually be 62.5% (or 2.5K average), while for survivors it IS 50% (2 out average). This inconguence is one of the reasons why balance is so difficult and why the community can never come to any agreements, and why everyone feels the game is 'sided' against them. There's a 12.5% overlap in the middle where both sides perceive themselves to 'lose'. And this is also why the game becomes insufferable when it's too tightly balanced (strict MMR), because more people are squeezed into the middle where nobody is happy.
TBH it’s inconsequential what players feel. The people who program the game have identified it as such.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794476#Comment_3794476
You['re mixing up 60% kill rate and 60% win rate. A 60% kill rate isn't a 60% win rate. A 60% kill rate is very slightly higher than getting a 2K on average per match (which would be 50%). A 62.5% kill rate would be 2.5 kills on average. Essentially, a 60% kill rate means roughly 2.4% kills per match when averaged over several matches. This ends up meaning, on average, killers get a 2K vs a 3K every other match which generally gives them slightly under a 50% win rate if you define a 3k+ as a win.
Peanits said the kill rate and win rate are the same not long ago.
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@ZamasuManzon said:
Yes, I know, the question seems pretty stupid, but let me elaborate.
I'm tired of getting to a pallet mid-chase, pass it and press the Drop button like a maniac and 90% of the time only getting hit without dropping the damn thing.
Is there a specific way to do so? Maybe letting go of the Run button and press the Drop one in quick succession or something like that?
I'm a killer main and basically only play surv to farm BP and when there are friends to play, but the Alucard skin is so damn awesome and my love for Castlevania is so big that I've decided to become a better surv.
I don't expect to become an amazing surv since I'm 36 and my reflexes are not the same as some of the damn ninja kids I get as killer.@BurnedTerrormisu and @Halloulle pretty much explained it—it’s ping related. Basically when the killer is about to swing and you’re at the pallet, if you try to drop it while they’re engaging in the swing (as in reared back) the server is going to prioritize their hit—the swing is a part of the hit—via hit validation if their ping is higher than or equal to yours. If their ping is lower you will typically get the stun. It’s not you lacking the skill to time the stun, it’s that BHVR’s servers prioritize hits on the killer’s side.
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@joel84 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793985#Comment_3793985
I prefer a sensible EC system to the current one. That's all I'm trying to say with this post. It's not about whether Killer or Survivor is better. I play both 50-50, I just want there to be something that creates new incentives.
It’s not about one side being better. Survivors are strongest during early game (no resources used) while killers become stronger as the game goes on and are strongest in late game (when survivor resources are depleted). This is common knowledge and has been DBD’s formula forever.
If you make survivors weak when they’re at their strongest (early game), and make killers strong throughout the game what do you think happens to survivor? They’re now weaker during early game, through mid game (because you made them weaker during early game), and into late game. What happens next?
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794469#Comment_3794469
welcome to the era in DbD where most powerful usage of DS and Reassurance isn't against tunneling and camping :)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794474#Comment_3794474
Potential Energy and Weaving Spiders have conditions that make them much more of a high risk-high reward, while e.g. DS and Reassurance are a minimum risk perks that give extremely good results if you know what you are doing.
PE and I: WS are high risk low reward…
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794307#Comment_3794307
Aren't we forgetting that BHVR's target is 60% killrate? These numbers pretty much go in line with that.
That became their ideal after their numbers were at 60%. I guess they figured it would be easy to just shoot for a 60/40 split instead of nerfing killers down to a 50/50. Their target last year was a 50/50 split.
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Does anyone even use Reassurance? Lol
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793987#Comment_3793987
Well I’m a Killer main 100% but play Killer/Survivor 40/60 and the risk reward seems really fun to me, even from a Killer POV. If it ends up being a problem numbers could be tweaked. But as a whole I just can’t seem to let go of this idea.
It’s a good idea to make totems and chests more interactive. I like that you balance it by letting those survivors receive extra gen progress. It feels balanced that way
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@Brimp said:
If both sides are of average or above average skill and higher (as most killers) its survivor sided. The thing is a majority of the dbd community has shown to be around below average to average.
According to BHVR, most killers and survivors are average (not below average or above average). And at the highest MMR the game is killer sided. This is based on stats BHVR has given us. We don’t really need to speculate or guess or approximate. They gave us the stats and it shows that the game favors killers at all levels.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793920#Comment_3793920
This
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793949#Comment_3793949
and This
Matches can wildly differ pending on so many factors that you can see on this very forum "Killers are OP, plz nerf" and "Survivors are OP, plz nerf". It's not that one side is lying while the other is telling the truth, it's that people can have very different experiences in this game pending on SWF v Solo (as your team or as your opponent), the killer being used, the map you're on, or hell, even just the region of the country you are in (for example, as someone in Midwest America, I rarely run into tunneling/camping but you talk to someone in a different part of the country or another country, they'll say it's tunnel city).
But the stats show survivors lose more than killers at all ranks… from newb to pro.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793983#Comment_3793983
engineer fang gives speed boost. original pain gives deep wound which does not give speed boost and because pinhead can break his own chains, Original pain is premier tunnel off-hook add-on in the game.
Engineer’s Fang inflicts damage/takes a health state if you hit a survivor with the possessed chain. Do you play Pinhead..?
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I like the idea of totems and gens being more useful but I think anything that allows survivors to complete gens faster is gonna be hated by killer mains. I think they tried to get survivors on totems with boons but we see how that turned out. Now they’re releasing random perks that encourage survivors to interact with totems and chests but nobody runs these perks.
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if they modify early game to be stronger for killers, what do they do for survivors as they are weaker during late game? Or are you asking that killers have a strong early game, mid game, and late game… in which case I’d ask where is the incentive to play survivor..?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793613#Comment_3793613
no, the add-on is called original pain. it makes so that whenever you chain someone, they are deep wounded allow you to m1 and go through borrow time.
While they do similar things, kinda, I’m pretty sure he’s describing Engineer’s Fang. Original Pain only inflicts deep wound when/if a survivor breaks a chain. Engineer’s Fang injures if a survivor is hit by Pinhead’s possessed chain.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793721#Comment_3793721
nobody is doing allat because average survivor is so afraid to take aggro due to not being able to hold M1 chase for longer than 20s ofc. Some of the best survivor perks in game are considered bad by average players because they can't get value out of them due to those actually having a skill floor
What does any of that have to do with the perks I mentioned? Half of them are detection perks for finding survivors who “don’t take aggro” and hide. The other half are for catching those survivors who do take aggro. Are you awake?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793721#Comment_3793721
NOED is just a shadow for it was, it's nowhere near to be considered meta.
Same for sloppy, only desperate killers run it, when they don't have better option.
Unrelenting is supposed to be a joke, right?
Whispers is actually good on like two killers, definitely not meta.
Spies got better recently, but nowhere near best information perks.
Bitter Murmur is basically Huntress only thing.
Those survivor perks are used even by survivors with thousands of hours, because they are very good options. Some especially for soloQ.
I’m going to stop at this first point because there’s no real sense in going on. NOED is the only perk in this game that can turn a 4E into a 4K. Do survivors have a perk that does anything like this? (Rhetorical. Of course they don’t)
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793346#Comment_3793346
Generic: The generic perks are largely the same: worse for survivor, better for killer.
Lol, do you even know what generic perks are in DBD?
List me good generic killer perks.
None of them are better than Deja Vu, Kindred, Hope, Resilience, We'll make it.
This is not even close.
You really think you did something.
Better than those perks: NOED
Foils to those perks: Spies from the Shadows, Whispers, Bitter Murmur, Sloppy Butcher, Unrelenting.
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@ArkInk said:
Did they change the Pin add-on that lets him damage survivors with chains but had the secondary effect of making tunneling off hook extremely easy? If not, I hope it's in the changelist.
That aside, I honestly think Pinhead is basically perfect as is. Chains are hard to hit but rewarding, and the box creates a unique match dynamic not really found on any other killer. He doesn't really struggle to keep up the way other members of the cast do, in my experience. Not the strongest killers, but he's certainly not the weakest.
If I were to suggest anything else, maybe just some QoL on chain aiming. I'm a bit of a noob with him, but indoor maps can be a real pain with verticality in my experience.
That one is Engineer’s Fang and no you can still tunnel immediately off hook with it.
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@Sngfun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793563#Comment_3793563
TBF today's playerbase and dev team can deal with noobstompers way better than in 2018. You have to remember how much more dangerous noobstompers were back in the day, when people where less skilled and the playerbase was smaller.
Hell, pig suffered a similar fate, however was redeemed with buffs to ger more skillexpressive parts of her kit! Twins are THE macro killer and they thrive unlike everbefore!
I thought the Twins were on the roadmap for adjustment. Players were suggesting it’s gonna be a nerf.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793361#Comment_3793361
Wicked is often misinterpreted as a niche perk, but it's one of the best perks if you know how to zone a killer in the chase and force basement hook. It's typically best to use in anti-tunneling builds to unhook yourself in basement, track down the killer with aura reading from the perk, take aggro and waste stupid amounts of killer's time.
Chile. Nobody’s doing all that. There are better perks available and no one should be trying to goad the killer into chasing them from, to, or around the basement.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793355#Comment_3793355
Wicked's aura reading works on every hook, not just the basement. It's only the self-unhook that has the basement requirement.
I know. I’m saying you can only access the aura reading twice per trial and unhook yourself once per trial. There are better perks for those things.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793346#Comment_3793346
I mean Weaving Spiders only takes 60s now, Wicked you forgot about the 20s of aura reading after every hook, and Strength in Shadows is actually really nice.
Also who are you running into that's running Genetic Limits???? I haven't seen a single killer outside of adept Singularity or Chaos Shuffle run that perk. I still see Made for This somewhat often, and Troubleshooter occasionally, Scavenger just sucks though.
The invocation takes 60 seconds and is still not worth the time sink. No one runs it for good measure. Wicked has aura reading but so do other better perks that don’t require being in the most dangerous place on the map. And it can only access the aura reading twice per game.
Yes I still see people using the perks I’ve described. Not often, but occasionally (Machine Learning is semi common in my games). I do not however see Soma’s perks. I’m in low to mid MMR on survivor so I see a variety of killers and they do run off meta perks (though I’m seeing pain res overcharge a lot now).
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793232#Comment_3793232
Always?
Wanna compare Unknown chapter for example...
Singularity really is not on killer's side.
Also best example would be simple. Wanna compare generic perks?
Sure.
Unknown: The Unknown’s chapter dropped a survivor with a perk that took 120+ seconds in the basement to remove 1/10th of a generator’s progress & left the survivor broken for the entirety of the trial; a deliverance that only worked on basement hooks, and a self care that only worked in the basement. The killer’s perks weren’t great (except unforeseen) but none of them, not one, helped the survivors in anyway (Invocation) or required wild stipulations for value (Wicked and Strength in Shadows). Perks that don’t help the other side at base are neutral. Perks that do at best are perks for the other side—in this case the survivor released with what were basically killer perks.
Singularity: People still run Genetic Limits (I also see Machine Learning consistently used). No one uses Soma’s perks anymore. Not unless they’re meming around anyway.
Generic: The generic perks are largely the same: worse for survivor, better for killer.
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So survivors have counterplay. Devs tried making her faster in a PTB and she became machine gun Huntress.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793043#Comment_3793043
I don't really play much vs hux as survivor but every time i do, i escape. when a killer is mediocre, you barely need understand the intrigues of the killer.
Singularity isn’t mediocre.
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@VomitMommy said:
Killers are not better imo. I would say worse.
Definitely not worse. Killers always receive better perks even if they’re still not great.
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What does balance even look like in an assym?
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@Azulra said:
It's not that EMPs take too long to print, it's that you need to manually finish them. I knew that survivor mains were gonna complain about it, but it was a needed change on him since, before the change, it made EMPs too readily available and, therefor, made using his teleports hard to do since everybody would just have EMPs constantly to use.
OP is a killer main. I don’t think it’s a problem that EMPs need to be completed by survivors but it’s tough to use them efficiently in solo queue. You basically need someone constantly finishing them
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792827#Comment_3792827
What if that gets removed? Or no lobbies at all just loads directly into the trial?
I’ve been saying for a while blind lobbies are the best way to ensure accurate matchmaking. It’s just not a popular suggestion here
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792683#Comment_3792683
This is all true, except for one thing: Filler tiles very, very, very rarely happen in isolation, and Haddonfield was an exceptional case in that it was for the majority of its life continuously Survivor-sided until now. I agree Haddonfield should have actual tiles there, but I can't be crazy in saying the map DOES still have decent tiles in the form of the houses, right? Or that maybe you're intended to play different on this map from the typical design that rewards the same seven or so perks everyone runs?
They knocked the walls out of the houses beside those tiles which severely weakened them. There is the basement in house of pain which is probably the best tile on the map. There’s a good one in the street (I think but many say it’s questionable) but it is kind of in the middle of nothing so when the killer breaks that pallet you’re zoned.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792629#Comment_3792629
I don’t think it would be that hard to change.
have junk piles that behave like chests, and when you rummage through you get a part that behaves similar to some killers secondary items like vaccines etc.
Have gens only progress up to a certain point before a survivor with a part needs to interact with it to continue progress, and they’ve already got something similar with how Sables Invocation cuts part of the progression bar off, or how they stopped gen tapping by adding a point it has to be repaired past your stop it regressing.I wanna say they tried something similar with gens some time ago and it backfired/created glitches. Not necessarily finding parts but needing to do something to like unlock the gen first before they could work on it. I might be misremembering.
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@Sepex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792626#Comment_3792626
Your not wrong. If I see a soloq player wear a default Meg with a username like toothbrush6583 I doubt she'll be that useful 🤨
Right. My thoughts. If they look newbish I don’t stick around. I’m sure I’m not the only one because I see other survivors do so as well. I don’t see as many killers dodge now though, and when I play killer I don’t generally dodge as I’m in mid MMR anyway so it doesn’t affect me.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792643#Comment_3792643
If you hadnt misread my statement then why did I have to copy paste it? I replied to a post, a post of OP, that was about the skill expression in using iron will while looping. Maybe read what im replying to before typing?
If your just following me around the forums to disagree with whatever I say, thats fine by me. Im here to discuss things. Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing however is not what I would encourage you to do though.
You didn’t have to quote yourself, but I’d guess you did so because you wanted me to know the context of your statement that “holding W isn’t skill expression.” involves IW and not just at any loop.
To that I’d say… disagree. Losing track Of a survivor who holds W at a loop with Iron Will is a lack of skill expression. You have blood pools and scratch marks and their footsteps. If you lose track of them that is more of a skill issue than a survivor outsmarting you and leaving the loop.
And please remain civil. I’m not following you around to disagree with you (we actually agreed on another post you’d made recently but that’s beside the point). That’s insanely accusatory. If I see a bad take from anyone and I feel like it, I’ll respond. Just like you. This isn’t personal for me. Don’t personalize it for you.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792593#Comment_3792593
You don't loop those.
You loop stronger structures. Getting caught by the weak tiles is being caught out of position. Being caught out of position is a mistake. Making mistakes is punishable. Punishment comes in the form of being hit or being downed or hooked. If you're really desperate and stuck at those tiles, you simply greed the tile three times.
Weak map = planning your routes better, as either Killer or Survivor. No loop is so weak it's unusable, and no Killer is so map dependent they're unusable.
That’s a good point; however, they aren’t decorative. They exist to be used.. if only to get a stun on them, although this factors into their weakness because you’re unlikely to make distance to anywhere better. Filler tiles are meant to provide something between stronger tiles. But filler tiles in isolation aren’t structures that provide much if any value. Part of skill expression is to avoid being zoned but when we take a map like, say, Haddonfield that has been thoroughly nerfed there really aren’t strong tiles connecting to much else (including fillers). A lot of a survivor’s evasion happens in negative space. That is a byproduct of map design, not skill expression.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792593#Comment_3792593
greenville also has tiles with 2 pallets…
By the rocks? It’s unsafe.
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To answer your question, yes. Technically any killer on the roster can beat a high MMR SWF team.
It’s more difficult with some killers than others but every killer has the potential to do it. While game sense, perk selection, macro and micro play skill expression all matter, what it comes down to is snowballing a mistake made by the survivors.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3792624#Comment_3792624
I didnt correct myself. I pointed out that you mis- or overread my statement.
If you had followed this thread, you would know, that we discussed the perk iron will. How is iron will commonly used in chase? To leave the loop asap because the killer does not get an audio clue that its happening. I dont find that skillful. I stand by that.
We are having two seperate discussions now.
- Leaving loop with iron will = or =/= skill
- Tile design not allowing looping.
Please chose one.
I didn’t misread your statement. I responded directly to what you produced. I haven’t mentioned IW at all.