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Archvile
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MFT is simply a repeat of old Dead Hard, getting extra loops in chase for free, simply because you're hurt. It's proof that the designers either don't really understand why DH used to be busted, or they do understand but they are ok with reintroducing the same issue as long as it's on a new, shiny perk that can entice players. At least DH had the excuse of making Nurse more bearable to face, MFT just exists to make M1 killers even weaker.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3458624#Comment_3458624
I see, it was just worded weird, my apologies.
Almost every Exhaustion perk gives you 150% movement speed for 3 seconds. In those 3 seconds, you move 18m. Normally, you'd move 12m, so you get 6 extra meters of movement, not bad. MFT gives you a 3% Haste effect. In order for that to be equivalent, you'd need to be in chase for FIFTY seconds while injured. You are better off running SB or Lithe to delay the first hit.
Made For This is a "win harder" perk. It's not going to save you from someone the same skill as you or better than you. It's only going to let you dunk on people worse than you.
You don't really have to make a choice, though, you can run MFT and also Lithe. Judicious use of Sprint Burst is probably better on the whole, but that's better than most things, even deep wound Dead Hard when you could activate it whenever. Before it got nerfed people were loudly exclaiming that it would lead to a rise of ravenous Sprint Burst equipped gangs of survivors that would NEVER let you get an initial hit. That didn't materialize for the obvious reason that Sprint Burst is hard to use and is privy to some inherent limitations. What materialized instead is between 2-4 survivors most games running MFT because, sure, it may not be as good, but when all you have to do to get value out of it is press W and pre-drop pallets, why wouldn't you?
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It's a godsend for solo not only because it helps prevent monster 3-gens, but it helps even when the 3-gen itself doesn't materialize. Too many times it happens that on 1 gen left nobody has any idea where the last of the three gens is, so the killer can essentially defend a two-gen.
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I'll make my own preface by saying that I think 24 second heals are too long.
Having said that, I think healing-based slowdowns are inherently healthier than regression based slowdowns simply because they're more interactive. Sloppy butcher only slows you if you make the decision to heal, but of course staying hurt incurs more risks. Survivors will now have to do the risk-reward routine they do with Plague with every killer. Since they also gutted all the regression-over-time perks, the main risk of healing is now the killer possibly finding you mid-heal, rather than all your generators losing 50% of your progress while you group up with the Killer refusing to leave a 10-meter radius away from their 3-gen.
This is another difference between healing-based slowdowns and gen regression slowdowns: healing-based slowdowns don't do too much by themselves. In the kick-meta, the killer does not need to approach because any progress undone on generators must be remade with great effort. You must go to them. In the injury meta, it doesn't matter if all four survivors are hurt if the killer is not actively hunting them. They have to come to you.
Of course this means that Nurse and Blight will be even more problematic, but that's because those two killers are inherently problematic. The only way to solve that is to fix them, nothing else.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
The devs know that Hex perks suck, hence why the latest Hex perks (Plaything, Pentimento, Face the Darkness) all work differently from traditional Hexes. With almost every match having one or two Boon users, I think it's time to give killers a way to activate their Hexes again. Maybe after 4 hooks the killer gets the option to light a dull totem?
Yeah, BHVR have figured out that having hexes spawn at the start of the game is a horrible idea, so I expect all future hex perks to follow the "Pig Trap" philosophy (temporary impairment that is applied on a survivor and can be removed by wasting some time). If - and that's a big if - they decide to rework old hexes, I find it's far more likely they'll be changed to follow this new design strategy rather than BHVR completely changing the mechanics of totems as they currently work.
In the end the problem with hexes is that survivors can just find them before their time. Even if you don't spawn directly onto it, just moving around to find a gen to work on or escaping during a chase lets you explore enough of the map to find most totem spots. Making it so hexes only spawn once they have a chance to do something seems the best way to go, as any other choice relies on map rng and no type of rng is something you can rely upon.
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I'm fairly positive you can just hold down the left mouse button and it will fire the first available moment.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
Sadako's normal M1 attack shoots out a ring that translates to "curse" in Kanji. Her "Rotten Remains" outfit has a different weapon, though. In Hanja, it translates to "hatred," but I have no clue if it's the same in Kanji. Can anybody confirm what it says?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WHOAMG109U52/screen-shot-2022-12-04-at-7-51-02-pm.png
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286743#Comment_3286743
Yes, the Knight stops moving completely.
The Jailer and The Carnifex move at 4.1 m/s, iirc. Survivors move at 4.0 m/s and standard Killers move at 4.6 m/s. The Assassin moves at 4.4 m/s.
The Carnifex chases for 24 seconds, The Jailer and The Assassin chase for 12 seconds.
Likewise, there is now about a half second delay from when the Knight goes into his power before he can place Guards.
That's weird, literally every time I've tried leaving the loop against a Knight I've gotten hit instantly, whereas with the Artist at least it takes a few seconds for her to catch up, although she merely gets slowed down by her birds.
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@Pulsar said:
Knight does lose major distance for sending a Guard out. He completely freezes. Artist slows down, sure, but she doesn't stop moving entirely.
The Guards are all slow. If you start running as soon as you get spotted by them, they cannot catch up.
Hold W, run as soon as you're spotted by a Guard and never 3-gen against him.
Are you sure that's the case? I've never managed to run away from a loop without getting hit even if I started running the moment I saw the kneeling animation starting.
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The Dwight was probably standing behind you, blocking the hook spot, and he had dropped the flashbang in advance. Unless you're blocked in animation you can always prevent Flashbangs from working by simply looking up.
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
I honestly do not understand what's going on, but games like Fortnite literally have item rotation and it changes 24 hours and some items may never appear again and like no one has a meltdown about it, it really is not a big deal at all
Yeah, Fortnite! The game that has, for sure, never been criticized for being designed by a cadre of psychologists to siphon money off impressionable children. What a paragon of ethical business!
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270690#Comment_3270690
Still waiting for them to remove nemesis's infection 3 hit mechanic. a mechanic that has zero advantage for killer and only helps the survivor. I like playing nemesis, but I dislike having long chases because of dumb drawbacks.
I really love Nemesis' tentacle, but every single other part of his power is so badly designed. Even ignoring the zombies, the infection mechanic exists as a middle finger towards big trashbag man.
Compare it to Wesker's and the problems are obvious. Both Wesker's and Nemesis' power can be split in two pieces:
- Nemesis' power can be used to damage or to break pallets.
- Wesker's power can be used to damage or to move around the map.
However, while Wesker's power starts out at 100% power, Nemesis' starts at 50% power. Wesker does not begin the trial with reduced bound range or unable to slam survivors into walls until he's infected enough survivors. He just has his power. Nemesis' tentacle strike instead doesn't begin breaking pallets until he's infected at least two people (or hit the same person three times).
You can counterplay Nemesis in the same way you can counterplay Oni, by predopping pallets and trying to keep your distance as much as you want. However, while Oni's reward for eventually hurting somebody is immense mobility and instadown capability, Nemesis' reward is... getting to hit the same survivor two more times!
Now the pallet-breaking capabilities of the tentacle strike are pretty amazing, but while Wesker's power may be less directly useful in chases (although it's not like it isn't very good for entirely different reasons) the fact that it also lets him apply pressure all over the map for little cost makes it leagues better. Nemesis, for contrast, falls into the camp of very good chase, zero pressure killers just like Deathslinger or Trickster.
But wait! You could make the argument that Nemesis, just like Wesker, does have a little of map pressure in the form of vaccines. I think this is the most insulting part of his kit, really. If it were for everything else, Nemesis would be a firmly mid-tier killer. But the vaccines just make him infinitely worse than he should be, because... they're free survivor pressure. Unlike Wesker, there's no imminent existential threat caused by the infection. Even if Nemmy catches you with your pants down, you still go down in two hits like any other killer. This means that you don't really need to vaccinate unless the position of the vaccine is convenient. Which means... well, you don't actually waste much time by vaccinating. And even if you do, you get your time refunded because the next time Nemesis wants to chase you, he'll have to hit you three times all over again.
The infection mechanic ends up working more for the survivors than the killer most of the time. Especially considering that, for some reasons, infections caused by your zombies don't count towards your leveling up, which means survivors can strategically choose to get infected by zombies during chase to gain a free sprint boost. And if they do that while you're in Tier 1, f**k you, not only they've gained huge amounts of distance, but they've also denied your power further!
Nemmy doesn't need much. He doesn't need to be an S tier. But he does need his power to work for him and not against him. I'm not going to go as far as to say that his tentacle shouldn't give any sort of speedbost, but that should be reduced. Hits by zombies should help him tier up and should not give survivors a speedboost when infecting. The number of vaccine cases should be reduced and/or it should take a much longer time to vaccinate (at the very least it should take as much time to use the vaccine as it would take for Nemmy to catch up when running at you in a straight line after he's given you a speedboost).
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The simple matter of fact is that DbD does not try at all to be a competitive game.
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I feel such seething hatred for the reworked Haddonfield. The double-window house(s) are stupid.
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@dugman said:
Some general things I do
- Don’t worry so much if you lose two or three gens early on, the first gens are the hardest to defend since all four survivors are active and the gens are the most spread out. Most of the action really takes place on the last two gens when you have someone on a hook and someone else being chased and maybe a third person downed, etc.
- Rather than try and defend the entire map the whole game, take a moment early on to identify four gens that are more or less in the same half of the map and focus mainly on defending those. You’ll have a much better time in the midgame if you have established a smaller zone of control than if you have gens split across the map.
- To that end, in the beginning don’t overcommit to your first chases. If you can get a hit or down quickly, great! If they get to a pallet just force the pallet drop, break it (unless it’s a really weak pallet maybe) and consider switching targets to someone else who is actively working on a gen. Getting rid of pallets in your anticipated zone of control early establishes dead areas near the gens you patrol ghat you can take advantage of later in the midgame.
- After a down, take a moment to consider if there is someone or something else nearby worth chasing or breaking before picking them up for a hook. The downed survivor isn’t getting up right away so you have a little time to extend your pressure to get another hit or even another down if there’s another survivor you can get to. Especially if the survivor you down is only on their first hook, and you know there are other survivors who would be on second or third hook, keeping that first hook survivor slugged can give you about 10 extra seconds or so to reach a more valuable target and chase them off a gen or down them. Obviously you don’t want to skip hooking all the time, but sometimes slugging to extend your immediate pressure is worth losing that first hook state that you don’t need right away.
- Finally a general rule of thumb is, if a survivor wants you to do something, then your best bet is do something else. For example, do you have a survivor who is obviously trying to get you to chase them? Ignore them since they’re trying to distract you from someone else and go after that other target. Is a survivor obviously trying for a bodyblock? If you can efficiently get around them ignore the bodyblocker and hit the survivor they’re trying to protect. Did the survivors leave the Exit near you at 99%? If you’re not in a chase open that gate yourself, you’ll get the 500 bloodpoints for it and also start the timer they were hoping would remain stalled. Basically whatever the survivors actually want you to do is probably the opposite of what you should do.
I greatly disagree on the ninetynined gates bit. Survivors usually leave the gates ninetynined to prevent blood warden, not because of the timer, so I would be wary of opening gates for no reason.
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Tunneling will exist as long as the choice is between "Hook three distinct people for no benefit" and "Hook the same person thrice and instantly vaporize 25% of the enemy workforce".
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@danielmaster87 said:
You're still cutting out a significant portion of the station. I think it was a cool idea.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3161307#Comment_3161307
New maps are always confusing until you learn them. And Deja Vu getting more use sounds good to me.
Only indoors map ever cause problem for the playerbase as far as navigability is concerned, because outdoors map are designed in a way where "naive pathfinding" (just going around obstacles while still moving in the general direction of your target) is always possible. RPD was especially horrible at this which is unsurprising since it's literally designed to be labyrinthine and hard to navigate (otherwise you wouldn't get a map in RE).
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Maybe you encountered a bug? The cap is still definitely two millions.
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I can't play this game without Windows.
I really enjoy new dead hard too.
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The simple and obvious answer to this is that there's 16 survivor perks and only 4 killer perks in a game. Killer perks need to be qualitatively better, while survivor perks make do with quantity instead of quality.
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I suppose it's the same reason some survivors flail their camera around when hitting a window or dropping a pallet. Just to look flashy.
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All the truly despicable stuff on Killer is tied to add-ons, but if I really had to choose out of the perk pool, I'd pick Bamboozle or Blood Favor as they are a slight annoyance.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122242#Comment_3122242
I highly recommend that you watch those videos. Especially the second one is very revealing on the mindset of some people.
Exactly. The statement "I don't want to have to sweat every game" is almost always followed by an unsaid but implied "but I still want to win.". Lose enough games by playing like a memelord and you'll start getting matched with 20 hour trappers instead of omegablink nurse, it's as simple as that. But the fact that some people expect to be able to have a soirée and still win more than they lose is entirely baffling.
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Nurse is broken. That isn't news.
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I think everybody runs Thana right now simply because people are complaining about it when it comes to Legion and Plague, so they make the assumption "everybody complains about this => it must be strong". But outside of those two specific killers, Thana isn't good.
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I don't think it's as much a matter of brigthness as it is a matter of aesthetic depth. The game's graphics have gotten simplified, I'm assuming, to work well on consoles. I personally love the new Coldwind Farm, it's very Texas Chainsaw Massacre-y in ambience. However, it doesn't have much flair. The fog is ok (and of course it's still in the game, unlike mists, because fog raises fps instead of lowering them), but I'd love it if it had a visual effect were distant objects twinkle and tremble because of the heat.
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I’m having a good time as survivor, haven’t tried killer yet. The escape rate is overall much lower than before, but the actual matches are nicer. The game feels more tactical because it’s way easier to get punished for mistakes. Luckily I’ve met a very small amount of tunneling and camping.
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@Adjatha said:
I mean, it'd be nice if at least you got an offering from the thing. Prestige Cake or something.
But whatcha gonna do
A Prestige Cake is such a cute idea, I genuinely hope they add something like that.
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@Seraphor said:
There's no such thing as an anti-tunnel perk for survivors. That's the falacy both players and BHVR need to get over.
A killer who gets hit with DS isn't suddenly going to stop tunneling. Due to the sunk cost falacy they now have to catch that survivor.
Actual anti-tunnel perks are Killer perks, like Devour Hope, Make Your Choice and BBQ when it made you hook unique survivors.
Of course, if you eat the DS, you may as well just keep hunting the same survivor down. But the whole point is to make the Killer consider not eating it. DS's value comes not from actually proc'ing, but from discouraging the Killer from tunneling in the first place. Since DS has been nerfed, not everybody runs it consistently, so it's safer for Killers to gamble. However, the nerf was so harsh that even if the Killer does lose the gamble, it's possible for them to not be properly punished at all.
While I do think DS was overnerfed, at the same time I think it would be good for it to stay like this for a while. I have the intuition that, once you learn to play with new DS, you can still get some good value out of it. It's just that the value isn't automatic. If even after people have had the chance to practice using it stiill feels like garbage, it should be buffed to 4 seconds.
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It definitely takes way less to unlock all perks on a new character now. Not only you get tier ones for free, the small bloodwebs after a prestige let you get a bunch of perk tiers for very cheap. Today I banged out 25 perk tiers for half a million bloodpoints, for example.
If you play a single character and all you care about is getting rare add-ons, then that's definitely gotten worse.
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I do think DS was overnerfed, but this gif does nothing but show that people are not used to the new stun duration and not that the new stun duration is inherently too short. If you go frame by frame you can see that Kate is pretty much in the center of the Shack by the time Oni appears in the door frame. She was probably aiming for the door in order to do a long loop around shack or possibly attempt to get to a different tile. Then she notices that the Oni is way closer than she thought he'd be, so she course corrects towards the window, but by that point she's taking the curve way too wide.
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@drakolyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079769#Comment_3079769
True. I'm sorry it was late.
Thana with other perks push it on 164 secs. Thanatophobia and pentimento for example.
I know i repeat it, because i have seen it nearly every game.
Assuming you have full stack Thanatophobia and one stack of Pentimento, that's a 55% slowdown which should result in 139.5 seconds per gen. What's the third perk that lets you get to 164?
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New DH is at its best when countering lunges, but it's more of a matter that not every single person in the lobby will always be running it. If you lunge and they have it, you're still getting punished, but the chances of that happening are way slimmer.
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@Sumnox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081361#Comment_3081361
I never expected any perk to particularly replace Deadhard, but that still doesn't answer my complaint. The point is there's absolutely nothing that comes near in terms of usability and power to what we had before, and things that didn't need any nerf got a nerf (Iron will) and things that got buffed are still dumpster worthy (Lightweight, Pharmacy)
Of course nothing comes close to the previous power level of Dead Hard. That's why it was nerfed, because it was way too good. Imagine if they nerfed Nurse tomorrow, but then they went and "Oh by the way now Wraith has a purple addon that lets him attack while cloaked"... that would be senseless. If something is too powerful you don't nerf it just to replace it with something equally as powerful, you just nerf it and let the power level go down.
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Before the update, the killer had to essentially chase Survivors twice (at the very least, with dead hard being a third chase extender), but since survivors don't gain nearly as much distance on hit as they did before, I think the new meta will revolve around denying the killer the first hit. Sprint Burst and Windows were always good for that and, even though I haven't had the chance to try it yet, I think new Lightweight shows some promise, although I expect it to still be niche.
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Currency-based punishments are ineffective because they're either too small or too large. If the bloodpoint/shard penalty doesn't grow quickly enough, then you're effectively not being punished for throwing the game. If it grows too quickly, you could potentially be punished so much it'd discourage you from playing completely. Imagine being multiple million bloodpoints in the red knowing you'll have to grind for hours just for a chance to get back to actually progressing. Or, if you don't care about progression for one reason or another, you could simply make your bloodpoint/shard debt grow indefinitely without really being impeded from ruining other people's games whenever you want.
The truth is that, when it comes to playing a game, wanting to play the game is the only assumption you can really make about the player (and even then, knowing DbD players, that wouldn't be correct a lot of the time), thus preventing them from playing when they want to play is the only real punishment you can dish out.
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There's an option to disconnect because no self-respecting piece of software would ever ship without providing a way to sever connection with the server. As for the punishment, making it simply a matter of MMR would make it extremely rife for abuse. "Sweats" who care about their MMR don't disconnect for no reason. People who disconnect are people who think they're wasting their time. The thing is, feeling like you're wasting your time because you're playing against a killer you don't like/you don't feel like you can beat/because you're on a map that's got bad rng/whatever other reason is subjective. Leaving your teammates stuck in a likely unwinnable 3v1 match is objective fact. Because of this, the game needs to find a way to discourage such behaviour. Furthermore, if all it did was make you lose MMR, it would make smurfing extremely easy. You could tank your rating and get to bullying lower rate players in less than 30 minutes, probably.
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@LunaticLizzie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079842#Comment_3079842
We don't care about the people being straightforward? What's the point in a matchmaking ban at all at that point? Literally just to catch out dirty dirty ethernet-unplugging match dodgers and people who are already getting punished by their ISP merely for existing in an unoptimal space?
Since there's no way to discriminate between people who disconnect of their own volition and those who don't (when disconnecting by means other than the "DISCONNECT" button), matchmaking bans are applied uniformly, but if we lived in a world where it was somewhat possible to do, then of course you'd have a very easy time punishing the people who are like "I quit!". It'd be like sending to prison the people who go to the police station to confess... way easier than catching those who run away.
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If you're making an explicit request to be disconnected from the server, then yes, of course the server knows about that. But of course we don't really care about the people who are being straightforward, we're concerned with those who would try to cheat it. There's no reliable way for the server to tell what happened when you disconnect. All it knows is that the data you're supposed to have sent hasn't arrived. Imagine your job is, every day, to drop a little paper boat in a river. There's somebody near the sea who checks that the paper boat arrives safely. If one day the paper boat didn't arrive, how could they tell what happened? Did you forget? Did you feel ill and physically couldn't send the boat? Did you actually send the boat, but it got stuck in a rock? Was it splashed away by a fish or bird? There'd be no feasible way for them to tell whether you were negligent or if something happened to the boat.
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The server doesn't know why you disconnected. All it knows is that it was receiving packets, and then it wasn't. Furthermore, not only not all modems take five minutes to reset (mine can easily reset in a matter of thirty seconds), but you don't need to kill the modem, you can simply remove the ethernet cable out.
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@drakolyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078855#Comment_3078855
"Camping hook has always been a non-issue for people who arent hooked. If a leatherface is camping, then literally just do gens."
So, there we have the first problem. The other 3, dont know if he is camping. They either look 1 by 1, or get downed on an instant. Especially with insidious.
Also "Just do gens", with the new slowdown perks, thana for example, on the max is 164 for one gen.
So, until the team got the information, either some more are hurt or run back to a gen, its already the first hook state.
This strategy only works on SWF's.
"And off the record and decisive being disabled after the gates are powered is a quality of life improvement for killer. There was nothing more frustrating than hooking someone when the gates arent powered, they get unhooked, powers the gate and you down them and then you literally can do nothing because all they have to do is hit a skill check and you dont get the kill. and now that they are disabled after the gate it incentivizes more teamwork after unhooking someone to protect them from getting picked up or hit again. Even then they still have dead hard they can use they just have to have the right timing when they use it."
Well i agree with DS, but not with off the record. The perk is deactivated completly, while it only should for endurance.
Also the case is, that its now frustrating for the survivor, cause not only are always every survivor there (especially when you are alone), your perks deactivate now completly.
It should be equally fair.
"Tunneling is a get gud issue on both sides. If a killer is tunneling its going to cost him the game, if a survivor is getting tunneled they are going to have to play extremely well or just take one for the team and get downed.
Slugging has always been around, and I had to deal with it yesterday against a legion with Knock-Out, if you want to prevent slugging separate from your team and then pick them up when you can, otherwise leave them and do gens."
And the same argument is made above. Also if a killer wants to tunnel you out, nothing will help you. And the killer has the advantage of that. Always. In Solo Q especially, since teammates will play selfish.
And with thanaphobia or other slow down perks, with buffed gens doesnt do the job.
"Not only that Thanatophobia is had a 2% change which is barely anything even with added gen time."
Its already proofen thats not true. A full Thanatophobia goes from 90 secs of a gen, to ridicoulus 164 secs of gen time. And with plague, for example, you see fast on which gen survivors are. You are fast infected again and if she gets mid chase her bad vomit, you are down.
Legion is better now, Legion got buffs and legion profits from every buff killer got. And especially gets better with the buffed slow down perks. I dont think Legion is low tier anymore. Spreading also only works on big maps.
"And if the 5sec endurance time isnt long enough, then like run Borrowed time??? Like everyone did before the endurance was a thing."
You know, thats the core problem. Killer now you always get 5 secs of borrowed time. So its useless. They wait automaticly 5 seconds. In solo q, i never see someone take borrowed time anyway.
Sure its a bad teammate situation, but thaths why it need to consider and solo q needs buffs.
Since you talk about your Survivor experience, can i have a look at your steamprofile? Would like to know.
You keep repeating it, but Thanatophobia does not make a gen last 164 seconds, that's a 82% slowdown. Full stack Thana applies a 22% slowdown, which is 109 seconds.
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The cap was raised but the tooltip wasn't updated. This was mentioned in the patch notes.
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@Wolfven said:
Forced prestige is BS, the old method of getting perks at lvl 40 was fine. Why am I now forced to P3 EVERYONE just to have perks unlocked on other characters? On top of that adding BP cost to actually prestige.
Reducing the amount of BP gained in the shrine by 50k is also an asinine move.
"reduce the grind" LOL sure BHVR.
You're not forced to prestige anybody to level 3. You prestige a character to 1 and you get all of their perks unlocked at tier 1 on EVERY other character. If you want to level those you can find the tiered up version of them on the bloodweb OR you can prestige the character a second and third time to unlock tier 2 and tier 3 perks on every other character.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073393#Comment_3073393
You only need half a brain cell to realise this patch is not good for solo q.
I don't disagree. Killers got buffed, which, given the asymmetrical nature of the game, implies Survivors got nerfed. But, again, the patch has been out for a day. Many people haven't even had the chance to begin to adapt to its changes. A combination of adaptation and MMR stabilization could lead to an evening out of the experience, or it could not, but it's simply too early to tell.
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@Marigoria said:
Did you say the same when you guys were crying about dead hard? Doubt it.
Dead Hard was in the game for five years. The new patch has been out for a day.
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@dspaceman20 said:
What about Adam and Elodie? There no black people in AOT?
There's one black character, but they get introduced in the last season of the anime/last quarter of the manga and they're not super important unfortunately.
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I am convinced that for the majority of development time, BHVR designed DbD on the assumption survivors wouldn't be able to communicate. When it became obvious that their party-based survival horror's success hinged on people, well, being able to party together, they begrudgingly began working on SWF. This must have happened late in development, given that the mode was not available on launch. Hell, I'm sure there were internal controversies on whether SWF should be added at all, I can't see it having been an easy decision. On one hand, the game is not designed around SWF (and this is an objective fact given the huge amount of info perks that were and are available, see Kindred for a glaring example) but, at the same time, I'm not positive DbD would still exist in an alt-2022 where SWF was never added. I imagine the reason KYF was instead available on launch was because it was planned from the start. Of course, when you're playing with friends, you can self-regulate voice chat usage.
Now, as for the main question: where "should" survivor power be? That's rather subjective, but when it comes to game design I am a pragmatist. Killers will meet normal players and will meet SWFs. If killers want to be able to win consistently, unless SWFs are one in a thousand (which they're not), they'll have to gear up to face that specific threat. This means that, in turn, they are going to be overly equipped for solo-q players. The simplest solution is simply to equalize SWF and Solo-Q by giving everybody voice chat.
Now, I'd assume most players would not use voice chat still. That's been largely my experience playing other games in solo-q. But having the option in itself is enough to level the playing field. Of course, SWFs would still be at advantage because they'd have more experience playing together, but it would be a gigantic boon for solo-q players.
I don't think a ping system should be added to the game. If you add a ping system without voicechat, then you're still just buffing SWFs, who now have voice chats and pings. One of the few things that SWFs have to practice is team cooperation, coming up with callouts, learning maps to be able to communicate properly, learn not to talk over each other, etc etc. A ping system would make that much more trivial, while still only barely helping solo-q players.
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It's funny that the Shroud of Binding is the highest tier shroud available to survivors but also the worst one. I don't really play SWF but even in Prove squads I'd expect you'd rather use Union.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067862#Comment_3067862
"That said, their greed 100% caused the 4k, which is why a lot of people don't like using kills as a metric for how the match went. Games like this completely pollute the data, and many SWFs die by being overly altruistic instead of because they got outplayed the whole match."
This is what any rational minded person will see when they watch this video. The survivors died as a result of misplays and Hubris. I doubt very many people if they had played this match and had it go exactly the same way would have had fun ( 1 chase, camp, tunnel, pressure, game over).
"Acting as if he didn't lose the match is extremely disingenuous. The survivors threw the game in order to try and get some fun out of an otherwise dull match, or because they felt bad about feeling the poor camped survivor behind. True would have lost the game had it been a more goal-oriented group of people."
The way you begin this argument is disingenuous. The three survivors not on a hook could have left and escaped with their points. That's a "tournament win attitude" that a lot of SWF people play by. If as True suggests we start looking at when hooks happen it will show that most of the "action" happens after the survivor objective is usually complete. This makes for one sided gameplay for the survivors.
"even if he didn't camp, I don't see the match going much differently"
Clown without the pinky finger is weak and that map is complete garbage for any killer to play besides Nurse/Blight. I think you're right and that's why he camped to go for an expected "safety" of potentially two kills.
"The thing is, talking about "gen speeds" is not really that useful in itself, because repair speeds may be the same on Coal Tower map and Mother's Dwelling from a purely mathematical standpoint, but that doesn't matter when it takes twice times as long to reach a gen on the latter than it does on the former. No amount of generator charges that feels fair on Mother's Dwelling is going to be also fair on other maps, because the problem isn't the gens, it's the design."
Repair speeds on Coal Tower and Mother's Dwelling are extremely different. Know why? If you try to shift+w on Coal Tower you have a very high chance of running into someone on a generator in about 15 seconds. The same thing won't happen on Mother's Dwelling in most cases until you've been running for about 60 seconds due to the size difference. A map like Coal Tower has a chance to be fair to all killers because you can potentially pressure two people during one chase. All the old maps used to work like this but were eventually resized so it just stopped happening.
The funny thing about Mother's Dwelling is that it makes the faster killers better because they can zoom around the map and survivors have to "walk" by comparison. Hooking someone in a far corner on a large map takes a large portion of the hook timer just to get close. The only thing that might make large maps fair would be to reduce the pallet counts for large maps. Maps larger than Coal Tower could have fewer tiles and more dead zones so that you have far fewer pallets per map surface area. That could potentially be an interesting way to make large maps fair to all killers.
The game is an outlier in that it is a small map but has 25 pallets. If we changed 80% of those pallets to be unsafe (translation : fair pallets that can be mindgamed - in other words throwing the pallet does not create a "mini infinite" that the killer has to break to resume chase) then it would be a much more fair map to all killers.
The way you begin this argument is disingenuous. The three survivors not on a hook could have left and escaped with their points. That's a "tournament win attitude" that a lot of SWF people play by. If as True suggests we start looking at when hooks happen it will show that most of the "action" happens after the survivor objective is usually complete. This makes for one sided gameplay for the survivors.
I'm not sure what you mean. It seems we agree to some extent? Most of the action happened after the gens were completed because the survivors decided to not just leave the game and have some interaction instead. This isn't a situation where survivors try to turn a 2k into a 1k and get punished for it, it's just them being overly altruistic towards their friend because both them and True knew the game was, for all intents and purposes, over. It's the same thing when killers chase a survivor, down them, and then still carry them to the hatch. It means "I won, you lost, we both know it, so there's no point in not giving you five thousand bloodpoints."
Repair speeds on Coal Tower and Mother's Dwelling are extremely different. Know why? If you try to shift+w on Coal Tower you have a very high chance of running into someone on a generator in about 15 seconds. The same thing won't happen on Mother's Dwelling in most cases until you've been running for about 60 seconds due to the size difference. A map like Coal Tower has a chance to be fair to all killers because you can potentially pressure two people during one chase. All the old maps used to work like this but were eventually resized so it just stopped happening.
That's my point. Even though the gen speeds may be mathematically the same, in the sense that a survivor that spends one second on a generator will always complete one charge, the effective gen speeds are different because of the way the map is designed. It's nice that you found an additional way in which this is true but, again, we're not disagreeing.
The funny thing about Mother's Dwelling is that it makes the faster killers better because they can zoom around the map and survivors have to "walk" by comparison. Hooking someone in a far corner on a large map takes a large portion of the hook timer just to get close. The only thing that might make large maps fair would be to reduce the pallet counts for large maps. Maps larger than Coal Tower could have fewer tiles and more dead zones so that you have far fewer pallets per map surface area. That could potentially be an interesting way to make large maps fair to all killers.
I don't doubt this would make the map more bearable, but I'd prefer if they just gave up on making huge maps. A gigantic map with no pallets may be less stacked against the killer, but who would want to play on that? It would just more of a press-shift-and-w simulator. All the fun gameplay happens at loops and pallets. I'd rather have maps that have a decent amount of pallets but that are also small enough that throwing them down is something of a commitment from the survivor's part, and you can't just prethrow every single pallet and still complete five gens with more to spare.
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Acting as if he didn't lose the match is extremely disingenuous. The survivors threw the game in order to try and get some fun out of an otherwise dull match, or because they felt bad about feeling the poor camped survivor behind. True would have lost the game had it been a more goal-oriented group of people.
The issue is, even if he didn't camp, I don't see the match going much differently. A detail I don't see mentioned is that while his pressure was suboptimal, it wasn't null. There were only two survivors working on gens since Dwight was just wasting time. In the time it would have taken True to go and attempt to disrupt the remaning two people, Dwight would have unhooked the Meg and not much would have changed, he'd still have at least two people working on gens. Given the size of the map and the communication the survivors had, there'd be little way for Clown to exhert any area of pressure.
The thing is, talking about "gen speeds" is not really that useful in itself, because repair speeds may be the same on Coal Tower and Mother's Dwelling from a purely mathematical standpoint, but that doesn't matter when it takes twice times as long to reach a gen on the latter than it does on the former. No amount of generator charges that feels fair on Mother's Dwelling is going to be also fair on other maps, because the problem isn't the gens, it's the design of the map itself.
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Sometimes I wonder if such things are very based on region, because for me it's quite often the opposite. I have to remind myself that, 95% of the time, there's no reason for me to get off the gen to unhook because the other three survs are probably well on their way. It seems universal that people are way too wiling to unhook unsafely without BT, I do see some unhook farming every now and then.