Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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@tjt85 said:
My entire Survivor build on PC is dedicated to anti-tunnelling right now (Off The Record + Borrowed Time + We'll Make It + Made For This). On Switch I don't have all of those perks, so I've had to go full stealth. If they can't find me, they can't tunnel me.
It definitely feels like most Killers are using every dirty trick in the book to finish their games at light speed (slugging, camping, tunnelling, all at 5 gens). Do they actually have fun playing this way?
And nearly every Survivor in my Killer and Survivor matches has had players that cannot resist doing victory teabags at the gates. Why is it like this every event?
For the record, I'm not saying I'm a saint. The gloves will come off if Survivors go out of their way annoy me. And sometimes I can't resist a few teabags before I'm about to die and want to let the Killer know I disapprove of their play style. But it's not typical. When I start playing this way, I know it's time to call it a night.
I just wish players would approach the event with a more of a chill vibe.
The thing is that DBD of today is a far cry from the DBD two years ago, and not for the better, as we all know.
Yeah, hard-core tunneling at 5 gens ain't much fun for the killer, but it's way more fun then the alternative: getting a sub 4min game because the survivors slammed gens like there is no tomorrow.
BHVR will likely never acknowledge this, but the introduction of SBMM and the MMR system killed old DBD. It introduced a kind of sweat and competitive into the game that was unheared of before and it never stopped since.
Someone commented on their 10ys old nice getting a 4k or @Nazzzak 6ys old getting a 1k. I think this is adorable and they are definitely very bright and precious kids, but there is no way in hell that they would have gotten any kind of success in he games I had to endure of late; at least not on my main, eith whom I maintain somewhat of a 75-80% win rate.
Yeah, MMR ain't working probably, but with Pyramidhead I am matched with hard-core SWFs way more then with anyone else and it really shows. Without tunneling these games would be over in sheer minutes, everyone sticks to their gens like glue and mercilessly hugs then like their live depends on it, and even a very quick first chase and down with lethal won't give me so much as a 1s respite. I either press that advantage or let 3 gens pip in unison. And I am kinda trapped in that playstyle: Pyramidhead is my main and the killer I usually use to climb grades, but that also means that 8/10 games are extremely sweaty, every know and then the game throws a group of potatoes at my feet and I have no means go detect this, until I am suddenly at my 5th hook at 4 gens remaining.
Then I might slow down, but for most of he time I am stuck in mostly high pressure games with him, and that's a direct correlation of MMR and SBMM. What could I do differently? Purposefully lose my next 20 games to drop out? And what then? If the game matches me against casual players I would eat them up once I started playing serious again.
MMR is somewhat doing its job, but by doing so it has transformed DBD from a goofy fun party game onto a Sloppy, unbalanced, competitive nightmare held together by curses, toxicity and balance bandaids. The players long ago optimised the fun out of the game, so both sides know that tunneling and gens before friends is dbd way to success. And you can't make he community unlearn this tactics. You can only change the game and its rules.
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Balancing side objectives for survivors is hard and unrewarding:
-make it beneficial for the survivors (Boons, Snowmen, Void Haunts) and crafty players will optimise and exploit (legal) the living daylight out of it, until the killers are left in shambles
-make it mandatory, OR ELSE (Sadakos Tapes, Pinheads Box, Pigs Reverse Traps) it will be "totally unfun", "oppressive " and turn them into pub stompers and noob killers
-make it neutral and everyone will ignore it
-make it take the killers power away and survivors will rejoice and killers will cry and not play that killer in favor of Nurse, Blight and/or Wesker
Solution 4: rework Nurse, Blight and Wesker by giving the survivors hard counterplay (mess with the Nurses box of captured breath/Blights serum distillery/ Weskers Oroboros cloning facility) and watch then backed against the wall with no comfort pack against abusive SWFs left. Profit?
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Well, believe it or not, I usually don't tunnel as my usual MO, but playing in a certain way out backing me against the wall will make me. And I regard playing a map offering of the strong survivor or exploitable maps as an open declaration of war, expecting no quarter and giving none.
Burn maps at your own risk, but I will play as scummy as I can in this cases. How else will survivors learn not to use this unfair items? I actually don't care if RNG decided that you had to go to a certain map 3 times in a row (well, not entirely true, this people have my sympathies, but I have no way of detecting them), a burned map offering is 9/10 times a SWF looking for an easy win and to ruin my fun of the game.
Getting send my RNG to Gardens of Miwery is devastating enough, but if you send me there on purpose, well, I'll make sure that YOU pay an equal price for that.
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@tjt85 said:
BHVR need to turn sacrificial wards into brown offerings. It's honestly my number 1 most wanted quality of life improvement.
I would burn one pretty much every game because I hate map offerings with a passion. No mercy or hatch escapes for any Survivor that brings one into my games.
Burning a map offering is my no 1 excuse to tunnel at 5 gens. I am always pretty open about it and somehow survivors get always defensive, like "Bro, you tripping? I didn't know that TheGame/GardenOfMisery/TheCornfields are survivor maps, I swear. I just chose it for fun." One such instance I would believe and feel sorry about, but dozen upon dozen of "accidentally strong maps"? And with everyone running WoO/HeadOn plus Flashlights? Yeah, sure....
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I played about 10 Alien matches yesterday and his tail is finally usable again, but I don't know ... at this point I wonder why he has the turret counterplay and can his power taken away? It doesn't feel any more powerful then comparable ranged killers.
Either make the tails power above the curve, but with the caveat that it can be taken away, or make it normal strong (like it is now), but have it up indefinitely and only reset on a down or pickup.
Right now it got a severe identity crisis...
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@C3Tooth said:
I've seen alot of Myers, most of the games.
The fabled "Halloween-Effect" and the pull of big licences.
Would be nice though, if some of the more iconic killers, like Myers or Freddy, would get some more love and QoL updates, if not reworks.
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It's always good practise to play both sides, even as a killer main it's good to walk, say 33% of your time, in the survivors shoes. Not only will it increase your empathy for the other side, but it will also make you a way better killer, learning and experiencing crafty survivor tactics and hiding spots first hand.
That being said, non of the tome challenges are especially hard or, well, challenging, with the exception of having someone to run into your trap Haunts, that's basically just rng.
Its mostly stuff like "repair one gen" and "succeed at 8 skill checks ". Heck, that's just free challenges and just asks you to play a bit of survivor.
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@TheBoop said:
Couldn't it be fixed just by spawn system? So there is never a situation where every survivor spawns on different gen and they have to work for it.
That would probably help. As I stated somewhere above, my proposed solution was just a 2min brainstorm and I wanted to start a discussion to maybe come up with something workable.
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Yeah, I am fine with this. Right now, when I am getting hit by DS I kinda thing "lol, this dude just wasted a perk slot".
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@Archol123 said:
But doing gens with other survivors already has lower efficiency and with your idea so does doing them alone... So what exactly is the point? Then people will just bring proove thyself because you get less efficiency regardless of what you...
Also facecamping was never an effective thing to do, proxy camping was always better... And hook grabs did not work properly anyway because of weird delay or whatever it was, just like gen grabs...
Doing gens alone is not inefficient, its actually the most efficient way to do gens. When I started my DBD journey in 2021 a typical game would play out like this: I find a survivor, chase, I down them eventually, meanwhile one gen pops, hook. Rinse repeat. This would go on for a while and things would be rather casual till the 2 gens mark, when things got spicy: the playfield had shrunk, the survivors had accumulated a couple of hook stages each, someone might have been on deathhook or not.
But now the game is in fast forward mode, the survivor playerbase as a whole learned, opposed to a couple of "good players", that splittin up on gens is way more efficient, so most of the time survivors will look for their own gens at the start of the trial and stay there till its done or the killer chases them off.
In theory there is nothing bad about good play choices, but the game is straining under this ultra efficient gameplay. Even with Lethal Pursuer and a good first chase chances are that two gens will pop by the end of it, sometimes even three. Whats left of a trial at this point? Sure, the killer can always make a comeback, but 1 hook vs the first 3 gens done is a ratio that allows only one response by the killer: tunnel that one survivor who got hooked and leave them no chance to escape, because if they do, they can just sit on a gen like everyone else.
I don't believe that an anti-proof-thyself is the best solution, but thats why I wanted to start this conversation. Against so-so survivors you can sometimes chase them off a gen and they will hide till they don't hear your terror radius anymore, but against good ones, they will jump right back onto it the very second your back is turned. I guess that survivor mains have no idea how much pressure this puts on the killers shoulder and that this leads to tunneling.
Yes, some killers will tunnel at all times, no matter if they dominate or not, but even thouse who actually don't want to and who love the cute little interactions that sometimes occure between killer and survivor, these get pummeled by gens flying left and right and the only solution seems to be to actually become the monster that everyone despises.
The meta will always try to move towards the most optimal playstyle and right now thats the sub 6min game with half the survivor crew never even seeing the killer in person. Everyone always talks about this "we just played the best Billy player who totally tabled us and who didn't tunnel and camp one single time", yeah that can happen, I have had this kinda games myself, but they aren't the norm, they are the big outliers that only happen when the survivors somehow mess up big time, and only against killers who can get fast downs.
Everyone wants to promote the 9 hooks gameplay, but how can we get towards this? I posted a lot of solutions in the past about this, but I am no game designer and I am probably missing parts of the big picture. But right now the game is really straining under the pressure put on it, ie killers tunneling like their live depends on it and survivors efficiently slamming gens like there is no tomorrow. I am as open to a solution to this conundrum as the next guy and I am definitely not the kinda killer main who can't see 5ft beyond their own problems, but I got a feeling that this particular problem here isn't talked about enough.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
I really don't want to increase face in generator time, its the least fun part of the survivor game.
I'd rather we had a mechanic that forced survivor motion when hooks happen. I don't know what it should look like, but things like ultimate weapon have that effect, so that is a pleasant sign from the developers.
You have rapid brutality in that build though...
No bloodlust, which is the compensation mechanic for those medium sized loops that you might try to tail over, but have wonky hit boxes that block your hits anyway. And just those structures combined with small survivor hitboxes are a problem, adding MFT means I just leave and try to catch someone out of position. Which usually means tunneling.
So, some buff that lets hook trades and proxy camping stay as they are, but ensure that the unhooked survivor gets to be well away, in exchange for longer total generator completion time could work. I guess, just no collision no track marks for like 20 seconds or until any action is taken would be good, and I'm sure that's been suggested a million times before. And just something creative to force survivors to move around after hooks.
Just for clarification: I am not asking for a general gen time increase, just that doing the first three gens seperately isn't that efficient, as it leads to the kind of games that back killers instantly against the wall ... which leads to tunneling the first survivor ... which leads to ruined games on both sides.
Ideally survivors would do the first gens together, as to give the killer a bit more breathing room and to prevent the popping of 3 gens one after another. I know that if I get what I want survivors would probably optimize everything out of that situation, too, but one gen popping after the next one is way less stressful for the killer, and feels less sweaty.
But your ideas are also good; I always thought that the unhooked survivor bodyblocking for the unhooker was a very unhealthy gameplay element, as most killers, myself included, take that as an open tunnel invitation: if you don't want to get away, but stay in the chase game, be my guest. If a survivor would lose colision and be untargetable, they could (would) just zoom off.
Regarding Rapid Brutality, I have it equipped, because it helps with catching up to MFT users, although the window is pretty small, RB combos well with STBFL. But once that timer runs out, the pain begins. Ugh.
Also as an update: basically every singel game tonight has been an utter sweat fest and the survivors I faced went 100% by "gens before friends" and used every second to push gens; even looking the other way became detrimental and even the smallest mistakes were exploited without mercy.
I havn't seen the inside of the void for like 8 games, because I just got no time. And even before I rarely could effort to free a Haunt, missing out on so much BP.
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@Ayodam said:
I mean y’all wanted Prove nerfed and so it was. Lol. Now you don’t want survivors splitting up on gens.
Its not "y'all", its me making a suggestion that could be soley a me-problem. But judging from the response , and the nice discourse we got here, I think that I am not the only one who sees the problem at hand.
@jesterkind said:
I don't think that a debuff is the right way to go, because that would probably be too punishing overall.
Rather, I'd look at the source of the issue. In your examples, you highlight specifically losing three generators in your first chase, and there are only one real reason that would happen if your chase is reasonably fast: The survivors spawned spread out. This, in my opinion, is the single reason that the killer early game can feel so impossible at times, though it must be mentioned that toolboxes make this even worse.
If we were to see an update that contained both a pretty substantial rework to toolboxes and the change "survivors now spawn in groups of either two or four", these issues would be fixed overnight. Survivors who spawn together and spread out are spending some of the time they're trying to gain back travelling to a different generator, but survivors who spawn spread out just get gifted that efficiency for free.
Survivors shouldn't be punished for making the right decision and pressuring multiple generators at once, but they also should be required to actually make that decision to begin with instead of being given it on a platter as they spawn in.
Thats some good point you make here. One thing thats related to this is killer spawn, too! When I spawn at the edge of the map, I have a pretty good general idea where at least one survivor could be. But sometimes I spawn smack in the middle of the map with gens basically all around me, and thats aweful. Its basically a coin toss in which direction to head and it could very much happen that I patrol two gens, but chose wrong and by the time I head back 3 gens pop without me so much as seeing a glimbs of the survivors. A survivor going down in the first 20s of the match is nowhere as punishing as this, and there is no "git gud" or "game sense" involved, its just a coin toss and if you lose, you lose the match right at the start.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
I don't think global nerfs is the way to go, MFT nerf is coming I'm pretty sure ? and then I would try small changes like deleting gen repair speed from toolboxes and rework it, maybe gen speed from resislience.. then see how it affects the game but slowly you know, changing 30 things at the same time like 6.1 update was pretty bad
You are probably right. While MFT isn't the sole reason for this, its a pretty big part of the problem and slimming that one down a bit will definitely help.
I really think that the efficiency right now is way to high, though, and even without MFT, if you make one mistake in your first chase, you already lose half the gens and got nothing to show for it.
One thing that always rubbed me the wrong way with DBD was that there is no catch-up mechanic of any kind for the side that has currently fallen behind the curve. If the killer gets 4 hooks and scares survivors away and they only get 1 gens done in that time, the trial is basically over and just a waste of time 9/10 games. Same if the killer only gets 2 hooks on two different survivors when 3 gens get done. Yes, you can sometimes come back from such a state, but not if the survivors play it save and correct.
Comeback mechanics are unpopular, because players don't want to "get punished for playing good" or even better "the other side getting rewarded for playing bad", but comeback mechanics can make a game more fun and interesting. Right now DBD is mostly "stomp or get stomped" by a throw of the MMR dice.
But I am pleasantly surprised, we got pretty measured responses so far :)
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One game I had already killed two survivors, downed one of the last ones, nodded at him and made some moves till he wriggled on the floor and then hauled him over to a haunt, slashing the air and letting them wriggle off. By the time they wriggled off, the haunt had disappeared and I was pretty sad, having no void energy left to try again and with the two last survivors on death hook, it was pretty impossuburu that game :V
Next game I went into the void fully stacked and on my way to feed the second Haunt, the first one must of spawned directly on a survivor and I got the challenge done :D This crazy Haunts of the void, you never know what they are up to, next.
BTW, I have a sinking feeling that the second page of the tome will have us trigger two Haunts in the same match, mark my words
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I could show you probably halfe a dozen of these just from the even days.
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It looks something like this if you report someone correctly. You still don't get a detailed report, but of course you could just look up that date and what players you reported there.
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Yeah, the game has become pretty unstable of late, I got loads of crashes, which are especially annoying when they happen right at the end, when you are about to end the trial, but I also got a fair share of crashes when I tried to pick someone up. Its gotten so bad that at this point they could/should killswitch the DC penalty.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565990#Comment_3565990
If a killer participating in this event by enterring the portals to get ghosts - you as a survivor basically playing without a killer.
You're free to slam gens while the killer is wasting time on basically nothing. Those ghosts are practically useless.
You're not even getting a lot of bloodpoints for doing so. A good source of bloodpoints are just spending them to open a portal.
This. The ghosts should actively hunt down survivors and either expose, hinder or highlight them with killerinstinct or maybe block a gen for a time. Thetrapp ghost are utterly random and there effect is rather miniscule and shortlived, so I don't get the killers side of this event at all.
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Usually, when I hook someone and UW procs no screams within 10s I know that the survivors are hiding in the void realm and I got quite a few with their pants down there. But as the killer you really have no time to waste toying with any specters. Hunting in the other realm isn't risk free, though, as the transfer is quick enough that they can escape during the wiping animation. And the hook in that realm blends really well in with the surroundings. I have got downs in the realm and just couldn't find the damn hook, but that might be just that I am still confused by the layout and this should rectify itself by tomorrow.
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@Grigerbest said:
So you have to play match normaly and collect orbs.
Then you have to open a portal, go inside this portal and bring the energy to the "ghost" to get some buffs...
And then you need to exit a portal, then you have (probably wont even happen) find this ghost on a real map to get the same buffs for like 15-20 seconds? Or get survivors run over those ghosts to get them some debuffs.
While you doing ALL THIS, survivors just doing gens and getting out.
I'm so sorry, but event sounds like a huge chunk of a wasting time on not very benefit buffs, that probably not even going put any effect on your gameplay.
Please let us use our ghost allies to expose survivors on demand or break pallets, that was the best event ever :D :D :D
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I thought that wounded survivors were slower, but it turned out that I just had as hard a time as catching them then their unwounded companions.
I also didn't know that the deep wound timer would stop in chase and thought myself quite clever, trying to run some Bill to death with Legion. You can easily guess how that turned out ;D
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565435#Comment_3565435
More gross generalizations. Fun!
You are right ... ok, lets put it in a different way:
not all killers camp and tunnel. But enough do, so that it is considered a problem and you as a survivor can be expected to encounter this problem. And its such an unpleasant experience, that the times were it happens stick that much more to your memory, then the other way around.
Not all survivors go for this cheap and extemely unfun (because extremely uninteractive - its basically scripted and could roll on auto pilot) tight loops using MFT, BUT enough do that it is considered a problem by many killer players, and being submitted to its mind-numbing effects can really make you question your whole experience and if this game is still worth playing...
Better? :)
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565429#Comment_3565429
I know, i know. I´m burrying my own grave with this statement. But to me, there is little skill and 0 mind games involved in running around the same piece of wood. So its simply not a good chase.
Survivors often say, that they love mind games, but then loop the same small tile without any view blockers ad nauseum. Killer can´t moonwalk or mind game or anything. Its just boring. Especially on slow killers.
I was of couse sarcastic with my statement, but forgot the /s marker, sorry about that ^_-
But for real, the way MFT allows greeding absolute trash loops and getting away with it is depressing, especially when you KNOW that there is nothing in it for you. In order to get the pallet out of the way you have to blood lust and then purposefully not respect it, because otherwise your lunge might be short 2 pixels and they can lead you around an extra 3 rounds. Madness! This is not mindgames, that is just BS, even though a lot of players might argue that "wasting a killers time without expending ressources and successfully greeding is the hight of skill". Why though doesn't this kind of buffoonery feel earned and you as killer shake your head in bemusement as the clever survivors tricks, but you only feel how you die inside bit by bit, loop by loop, until all humanity has been driven out of your body, leaving it an empty husk and you can only regain bits by camping and tunneling and stomping the next group of noobs as hard into the ground as you can muster?
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@Tsulan said:
A good chase consists of not running around the same piece of wood for 5 times.
What are you talking? Thats the hight of fun and how you outplay the killer. Bonus points if there is a pallet at that trash heap and you can get the killer get exactly nothing for that fun chase, but also know if they break off that pallet will stay for later. Fun.
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Survivor
Controller = Blast Mine/Quick&Quiet/HeadOn/RedHerring
Houdini / Escape Artist = Overcome/Quick&Quiet/LuckyBreak/InnerHealing
Information Broker = BlastMine/Wiretap/Kindred/OpenHand
Killer
Inflictor = Coulrophobia/Distressing/Unnerving Presence/Terminus
Hetzer = Lethal Pursuer/IamAllEars/UltimateWeapon/DeadManSwitch
Bulldozer = Endurance/Hubris/SpiritFurry/STBFL
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I see you are big pyramid head main and you sometimes enjoy playing Singu (nice!).
Yeah. Pyramid Head is just so satisfying to land some sick, blind shot through a wall and hear that scream. Pure endorphin bliss. And Singularity, well, I am doing better and better with him. I actually don't know if they shadow nerfed the EMP somehow, or if peeps just got worse in playing against Singu, because he is so rare, but during his introduction to DBD my matches were much more aweful, and now I am having a lot of fun with him.
He still got some issues, but there are quite some cool tricks that you can pull off with him and mindgames that wouldn't play out like this with any other killer. Part of me is just stubborn and wants to get better with good 'ol Hux, but maybe this other peeps, who claimed to "git gud" were right and he is better then they claim? But when I get stomped with him, I get stomped hard.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563831#Comment_3563831
If you're playing solo I think you should be able to see the killer's perks. Like you I've also been in that situation where I have to wait for the game to end just to see whether or not they're running something. i also think both survivors and killers should be able to see who was on SWF etc. It'll also make stats easier to translate for survivors as well as killers, it feels like we're left in the dark most of the time.
You can't see the killers loadout while the trial is still playing out, all you can see is their name; as the game can't determine if you are on coms with someone else, it doesn't show you anything beyond that.
And yes! I would welcome seeing who was in a SWF with whom after the match. It would also help a lot with killers thinking that SWF are all seal team sixes if they saw how often they stomped a SWF. On the other hand there were quite a few matches were it was quite obvious that the survivors were in a SWF and they just claimed "nah, we are all solos and never played before.", trying to gaslight the killer. I think people would realise how many duo-swfs are out there, who die to being altruistic towards their partner or kill themselves on hook when their partner died earlier. I see basically no drawback to showing the SWF status in the post-game-screen
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@[Deleted User] said:
How did you make these stats? I wouldn't mind trying something similar.
Ah sorry, I somehow skipped over your comment. There is a third party webpage called Nightlight where you can upload screenshots of the matches; their software detects most perks and items, but always struggles with the survivor perks in an eye (Kindred, Dark Sense, Object of Obsession etc) and the different medkits and reagents, so you have to help the AI out to understand us better. You also have to click on your own character, so all in all it takes about 5-15s per match uploaded, when you know what you are doing. But thats the reason why only dedicated players upload there and no casual player would take this extra burden on themselves, which already skewers the date set; yet its always pretty accurate with what people talk about anecdotally and the last couple of times BHVR showed us the most used perks stats that matched 6/10 on the survivor side, 8/10 on the killer side, which sounds pretty accurate to me, taking into account that BHVRS stats at that time were about a month old.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
I think it would be interesting if next time you play survivor matches you also keep track of your team's escape rate. I feel solo escape rate doesn't tell the whole story and it sucks that if you die early but your team makes it out you get nothing, despite probably contributing to that win.
That's true. In this regard I would wish for BHVR to implement a simple way to review your last, say, 10 games. That way we could just play the next round and didn't either have to watch a whole game that might not be entertaining, just so we can now if that killer actually ran that and that perk. But as it stands right now, I don't always feel like it, which sucks, but it is what it is.
But this is a big reason why Nightlights stats are quite crocked, they give you a very good idea what's going on, but the survivors stats will always be way more inaccurate.
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Got a couple of Demo-puppy games in. Dayum, when MFT loops him around a tree or thrashcan, there is nothing he can do, but Rapid Brutality feels quite good on him.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563718#Comment_3563718
When you tell solo to bring aura perks to be able to co-ordinate with other solo survivors and you use one single perk to do 4 differents things, including denying solos co-ordination then yes it is.
But I don't think you are up for that discussion when all you took away from that post was" mm...blindness strong now?"
Still waiting for someone to convince me a perk that so efficient it only takes up one perk slot is somehow "mid" or "not that strong actually".
I think no one is saying that the perk is mid or "not so strong", everayone is acknowleding that it is overtuned, but killers lived for 5 month with the equally as overtuned MFT, so this begs the question: do this two overtuned perks chancel each other out? Are they so good that we are expected to play with just 3 other perks and always equip this one here? Is it BHVRs attempt to bring back unballanced, hilarious matches? Who knows.
UW is very strong and undoubtedly the best tracking perk, BUT if it were just that I think it were ok. I use it all the times after downing and hooking a survivor to get into the next chase, and in this regard it works great. This minimal downtime is often required in todays gen-rushing meta and even when you are doing great at the killer and downing survivors at a good pace, gens keep flying. So this effect alone isn't OP, its just "the best in its class with no competition".
Though all the other stuff, like the blinding and interruption, thats debateble. I would be a-ok if it was just a tracking perk, but with survivors abusing the living daylight out of MFT and Resilience and possible Hope, I will take UW and also run DMS in lieu every so often, just to get a breather. This is our new meta, the "overtuned meta".
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@UndeddJester said:
So I'm a pretty new player, but I've spent a lot of time since I started watching and studying how to play the game from far better players.
One of the major and most important strategies of DBD for both sides centres around the first player that gets knocked out of the trial. The moment a survivor dies, the chances of victory for the other survivors dramatically decreases. This is why: -
- Tunneling is widely lamented as the most effective strategy.
- Tombstone Piece on Myers is such a problematic add-on and artificially propping Myers up.
- Survivor builds almost always have to have some kind of loop strength built in to them, even if it is just sprint burst.
The killer is basically looking for the weak link of the team, and trying to get them out ASAP. As survivors you're trying to prevent that.
The problem with Ultimate Weapon, as far as I can see, is it is the most powerful tracking perk in the killer roster. It has: -
- No activation requirement.
- Long uptime.
- Low cooldown.
- Extremely easy to use.
- Very little counter play.
An important basic lesson that all players should follow, is if you are dead on hook... you need to hide and stay safe. Just being alive and doing nothing is so much more valuable to your team than getting killed, just because the Killer has to continue factoring you in to their decision making and have you in the back of their mind.
Ultimate Weapon basically allows the killer to find whoever they want, whenever they want. They can always find the weak link and use it to snowball the game.
Then of course, everyone knows how good it is at slugging for the 4k. It's the same issue, you can find survivors whenever you want, with no condition or pre-requisite.
This doesn't even mention the fact that UW causes huge problems for solo queue due to how easy it is to keep the team blinded for half the game. The SoloQ staple Kindred gets utterly brutalised by this perk.
Outside all this pish, the real power of UW is in its availabilty. It's so versatile as an ability because you can it use it to find survivors at the moment you REALLY need it. It can take a small advantage and snowball it out of control so easily, because you get to decide exactly when you want it.
You're right it's decent on m1 killers... but its best on fast moving strong chase killers. Your Blights, Nurses, Weskers and Onis are all incredible with this perk.
I've argued to death with several people now about it, and I know this'll turn into the same thing, so I won't bother coming back at anyone... but it looks like people are starting to wake up to how good it is. If you hit its cooldown, it's up time or even if you just remove the Blindness, the perk is far healthier, but as stands, its hands down the best tracking perk in the game.
There is a lot of truth in your post, and indeed, Ultimate Weapon is the best tracking perk in the game, but its not even on the same level of brokenness then MFT, for example, the recent most strong survivor perk. UW is very strong and allows a killer to get right back into the chase after hooking someone, but its not aura reading, so you only get one assessment of the moment and know in which direction to head, but after that its up to your own skills and powers.
But I have a theory: BHVR has finally understood that a perfectly balanced game is also a boring game. With the game being in its objectively most balanced state then ever, it should also be the most fun it ever way, right? Well, but somehow we all are feeling that this isn`t the case. With the game so balanced, the players used the one big screw that they could access to swing the trial into their favor: gen rushing and camping/tunneling. Without reliable means of goofing around and having fun people were prioritizing this two aspects, leading to the state of the game we are seeing right now.
So maybe, MAYBE BHVR is selectively releasing objectively overtuned perks to give the game some breathing room, to allow for spectacular missplays and big triumphs instead of just the same old, same old getting tunneld while slamming gens.
So I am fine with survivors keeping their MFT it the killers can keep their UW. But of course we must be careful not to introduce any more thus overtuned perks, or we will end up with just 4 overtuned perks. Both, MFT and UW don't mix perfectly with the existing meta, like MFT not working while exhausted and UW not providing aura reading; there are perks that sinergise with them and create their own new meta, yes, but not neccessary the old reliable ones.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563292#Comment_3563292
I get the sense he wants or thought he could bulldoze with GF stalk like Myers. Idk. They’re quite dissimilar despite both being stalker m1 killers.
You guys always make the most bizzare and amazing assumptions.
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563070#Comment_3563070
Are you seriously trying to compare Residual Manifest to Nightfall?
😆
""If there was something equivalent that survivors could do to killers (like obscure their vision) they would be throwing fits and demanding nerfs.
But since it’s the other way around, it’s totally fine as evidenced by all the mental gymnastics on display in this thread.
This community is insufferable.""
Ma man proposed that killers would throw a fit if there awas an option that "like obscure their vision" and that "they would be throwing fits", yet displays their own mental gymnastics when Residual Manifest isn't obscuring enough. Of course Residual Manifest isn't the same to Nightfall (hint: nothing in the game is, its Dredges unique thing), but it obscures a killers vision and takes valuable information away.
BTW, do you know what 100% obscures a killers vision and has been in the game from basically day 1? Thats right, Flashlights! Crazy, ain't it? There are even chainblinds and extra long blinds, but I guess I am also conducting some mental gymnastics, to liken flashlight blinds to Nightfall. Under this definition of yours, obviously nothing would satisfy your demand, as anythign that would legitly blind the killer for 30s would basically win the survivors the game then and there.
Nightfall is supposed to be scary, some players actually try to sit this time out in a corner and cower in fear, just like in a movie. Many say that Dredge is the only killer that remotely tickels their horror vibes and scares them from time to time.
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@ReikoMori said:
That's the exact problem though.
The most vocal of folks just wanted change without consideration of how to make good change.
A lot of us who were actually playing her in ways that weren't focused on extended the game forever didn't even get a look in. For all the things that changed they still made her a weak killer who's got nothing other than being able to bulldoze through chases. Her entire kit just makes it so no matter what you're getting hit. You don't need to be smart or crafty, literally just drop the drone and bloodlust them until they get hindered and you get the hit. Head empty, only chase.
Yet, that's what folks asked for though. A Skull Merchant who is forced to engage in chases no matter what and that is what they got, but it isn't good or fun for either side. Rather than give her options and maybe a new way to interact with the game, they gave her the bare minimum viable product version of her power and got rid of any of the interesting things she had or restructured it to be mostly worthless.
Skull Merchant rework is what you get when rush to make changes without even attempting to collect feedback from people who playing the killer to find out what they even liked about the killer.
I played like a dozen games with her back to back, to get a feeling of her new power and I still don't fully understand how she works ^^"
No, I read her power description and all and understand that scanning a survivor three times either damages them or sends them into deep wound and gives them a claw trap, but it nearly never happens because I did something skill full, but rather randomly, often at the other end of the map. You can set up a drone during a chase, forcing survivors to the abandon the loop or risk taking a hit, and the hinder and haste can come in handy, but I still havn't gotten into any "Skull Merchant mindset". A lot of survivors though accused me of playing a killer requiring no skill at all, I guess thats those that haven't read the patch notes?
One thing that bothers me is how rare and random you give survivors claw traps. 3/4 times when I look at my radar I see nothing, then at other times suddenly two survivors have claw traps on them. But the claw traps themselves got a rather short timer, you either need to have a survivor nearby right at that moment, to capitalize on the haste effect during the looping or run after the trapped survivors who might be just holding W. I really think that survivors should appear on the scanner more frequently, thats the main schtick of the SM, isn't it? Tagging survivors and tracking them around the map?
BUT the way survivors randomly get injured surely shakes things up a bit. I also never seem to be able to predict when I will get hasted or undetectable and I find the "reverse direction" quite tedious, even though I get the feeling that this is one of the nooks and cranies that make a good Skull Merchant player.
I actually would wish that we had two direction add-ons:
1) Every x seconds the drones change the direction that their scaning beams face.
2) changing the scaning beams direction changes it for all drones on the map, so you could just do this at random and maybe catch a survivor off-guard.
But now that I might play the SM from time to time, the big elephant in the room is this: which weapon is the best looking with the most interesting FX effect and should I buy?
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I played like a dozen games with her back to back, to get a feeling of her new power and I still fully understand how she works ^^"
No, I read her power description and all and understand that scanning a survivor three times either damages them or sends them into deep wound and gives them a claw trap, but it nearly never happens because I did something skill full, but rather randomly. You can set up a drone during a chase, forcing survivors the abandon the loop or risk taking a hit, and the hinder and haste can come in handy, but I still havn't gotten into any "Skull Merchant mindset". A lot of survivors though accused me of playing a killer requiring no skill at all, I guess thats those that havn't read the patch notes?
One thing that bothers me is how rare and random you give survivors claw traps. 3/4 times when I look at my radar I see nothing, then at other times suddenly two survivors have claw traps on them. But the claw traps themselves got a rather short timer, you either need to have a survivor nearby right at that moment, to capitalize on the haste effect during the looping or run after the trapped survivors who might be just holding W.
BUT the way survivors randomly get injured surely shakes things up a bit. I also never seem to be able to predict when I will get hasted or undetectable and I find the "reverse direction" quite tedious, even though I get the feeling that this is one of the nooks and cranies that make a good Skull Merchant player.
I actually would wish that we had two direction add-ons:
1) Every x seconds the drones change the direction that their scaning beams face.
2) changing the scaning beams direction changes it for all drones on the map, so you could just do this at random and maybe catch a survivor off-guard.
EDIT: but now that I might play the SM from time to time, the big elephant in the room is this: which weapon is the best looking with the most interesting FX effect and should I buy?
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@Dogma_loki said:
If there was something equivalent that survivors could do to killers (like obscure their vision) they would be throwing fits and demanding nerfs.
But since it’s the other way around, it’s totally fine as evidenced by all the mental gymnastics on display in this thread.
This community is insufferable.
There is a rather unknown Haddie perk called Residual Manifest. It ain't meta, but blinding the killer to gens, hooks and their own items is surprisingly disorienting and I am quite happy that no more people are running this perk. But nerfing such a low-pick, low-power perk or throwing a fit about it? Naah.
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Oh yeah! From 36 of my DBD friends, only one is inside the game right now, this is rare and a clear indicator that "something is up" ;)
I guess right now no one can actually join the servers, but those who are currently playing can still stay. Mybe thats just a big update?
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@tippy2k2 said:
I don't know what they do or how to get them or even that they existed until now but I have 445 of them so I feel smugly superior now to anyone with a lower point value than me!
Beat me, I only got 379 ... you surperior beast! :*
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I had quite a few games where all 5 participants DCed and got a penalty. And I also had a start up where I was greeted with a EAC message that I should validate my files, as they found something, OR ELSE! It was resolved after file validation, but stuff like this is kinda scary, and I never ever so much as installed item overlays, because I definitely don't want to tinker with any of DBDs files.
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@radiantHero23 said:
The problem is the hatch.
Due to its Rng-aspect, it's more reliable to slug.
I would much prefer a more exciting end of the match for the killer. Like a chase or something like that.
Like both get transported into a trial ground by the Entity with the survivor 20m ahead. Can they loop the killer for them to reach the visible hatch or do they lose it all?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
A buddy of mine was saying killers slug for that 4k due to life not being fruitful or meaningful to them.
I literally said I dont think its that serious. He laughed and nodded, saying 'Not for you, no."
Kind of resonates now lol
On the other hand there are a lot of matches where the survivors (in a SWF) are dead set not to let the killer getting a single hook, if they can prevent it, bodyblocking, saboing and flashlight saving, like their life depends on it, and even if you crush and stomp them into the ground, you often don't feel satisfied afterwords, because of what a miserable experience that was.
There are lot of aspects in this game that some players love, others hate and some even thrive on. You can't please everyone, BUT each time you take away one of these aspects, you dull down the game and make every match feel the same. I really don't love this kind of matches, but if we took away just bodyblocking, for example, imagine how much gameplay elements would suddenly break away.
And slugging for the 4K is sometimes a nesseccity when you are going for an adept. We could also just tell survivors "well, there would be no slugging if both survivors just accepted that the killer won and both calmy walked to the hooks to give up.", but that would be silly ... or would it? *mysterious sound cue playing*
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@GentlemanFridge said:
GF, more than any other killer, needs to remain unseen to do his thing. Where Myers can brute force stalk juice, GF has to be quick and quiet in order to get marked stabs off.
That difference in design is probably a very good thing to knock into my head. When Myers is seen, so what? Stalk and kill them. When GF is seen, the jig is up and all he can do is sigh in frustration and either get a quick jab in and fade back to black or brake chase. The thing is that his power has a length cool down when revealed, no matter if he is in chase or not.
Just a random thought: maybe his power could cool down much quicker when out of chase and unobserved, just like the alien in tunnels. So when knocked out of stealth, you could chase, or go back into seclusion and quickly try again from another angle.
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@egg_ said:
"Part of this must be lack of experience with Ghostface and knowing the good stalk routes"
I think you kinda answered yourself
So this is all there is to Ghostface? No other issues?
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Due to the tome and its three challenges Dredge now gets played a fair bit and people realise how much they hate a non-played killers power and call for nerfs, because its "totally unfun", "extremely unfair" and "utterly OP! OMG how can such an ability be left in the game? Wake up sheeple!".
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@Xernoton said:
I wish we had gotten Xenokitty. 😥
Who would play them, though?
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He wasn't programmed to harm the pets ... so he became the pets. Oh lord!
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Hmm ... I must have messed up somewhere ...
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I hadn't a chance to even see the bar fill up even a little bit as the survivor, but when I played as killer there was one situation, where one survivor really tried to tilt me, flashlight clicked, repeatedly fast vaulted, t-bagged, the whole shabang. They sadly weren't THAT good at looping and I eventually cornered them.
When I hooked them the second time I thought "you know what? Lets put this AFC mechanic to the test" and I nodded at them and stared straight into their soul. They struggled all the way to 3rd stage and died, all the while I was expecting them to unhook themselves at the very last moment, thus "wasting" as much of my time as possible. I will never know if they did this to spite me or if they didn't know about this mechanic? We must not forget that not everyone reads patch notes and the sorta casual players probably didn't notice any different markings or key prompts.
I then tested this with a couple more survivors, all on 1st hook, and not one unhooked themselves.
