WolfPad06
WolfPad06
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Late to the point, but I'm a Professional Chef and any cook worth their salt will taste every component of every dish every single time they make it, and often, the restaurant staff will taste the dishes in their entirety to make sure the components work well with each other.
You want to know the most VALUABLE information a Chef can get though? Customer feedback.
Because it doesn't matter if the staff likes it. If the customers do not, it will not sell, and will hurt the restaurant.
And that's one of the biggest problems here. The staff pushes through decisions when they have consumer feedback stating it is not wanted, because they think they know what's best all the time.
I'm all for trying new things, but when something is been tried and tested to not be enjoyable/positive, there's no excuse not to change it or fix it (Legion changes, Nurse basekit changes, paid rift instead of events, constant nerfs to both sides, etc.)
DBD gets away with it because they have no significant competition right now, but things can change very quickly. (PUBG anyone?)
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073847#Comment_1073847
No I meant clarify the next time you refuse to answer OP's question and instead rant about what got you angry in recent games. Got it clear mate?
Why is it, every single post I go to, you're there making inflammatory post and instigating fights where none are present?
Anyway, I'd say the biggest issues are map design (and within that reason, tile strengths and distribution).
I know it's very difficult to balance, because each killer has a different power that is strong in some situations, and weak in others. However, some maps can be so difficult to deal with by some killers that just spawning on that map is already a loss at high level of play, since that killers strengths cannot be used in said map.
On the flip-side, some other killers can render tiles and areas of maps completely unsafe, which is very frustrating as survivor as well.
I don't want a grey, monotonous gameplay for this game, where everything is completely equal. I don't care for that kind of balance, I want "play and counterplay" type of balance where you can bounce back from a situation your character is weak in by using your strengths in other areas/situations, and those weaknesses and strengths are fairly evenly distributed for every killer and survivor within maps and within perk builds.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1069075#Comment_1069075
It's not that the game isn't rewarding people for hiding, it's that it's discouraging them from pursuing their objective. I'm sorry Nick, I know you want to have an interesting discussion about this, I'm just too exhausted today 🙁 I wouldn't have commented on the thread if I'd known it would be so contentious.
All I'm trying to say is I like the general idea, I just don't like that it tries to force the survivors to be aggressive. If there were a way to implement it without penalising stealth builds so heavily, while still being fun for killers, I would be all for it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1069071#Comment_1069071
I feel like you didn't read my original comment on this thread. I actually like Scott's idea, I just wish it weren't so polarising. I would be happy with it if only some adjustments could be made such that it doesn't affect stealthy players so much, while still being helpful and enjoyable for the killer.
I did read, but what you're proposing simply isn't possible with the design of this game.
Killers NEED to interact with survivors to do their main objective, survivors do not need to interact with the killers to do theirs.
So the very nature of stealthy gameplay penalizes the killer by denying them interaction opportunities. Therefore it makes perfect sense the stealthy playstyle is penalized (or really, just less heavily rewarded) than the playstyle than encourages interactions.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Riskier play should have greater reward, not the other way around.
(That wouldn't be the case even with this change, due to the strength of some loops/maps, but it's the right direction.)
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1068969#Comment_1068969
I'm not saying survivors should only rely on stealth. I'm saying it should be an option early game, just like in the scenario you're describing. The only problem is, survivors can't use stealth to start making generator progress under this system the way you describe, because generator progress is slowed to a crawl until someone gets found by the killer.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1068977#Comment_1068977
Leaving your opponent to make progress on their objective so that you can make progress on yours is pretty much the opposite of going out of your way to help them do theirs. It's not comparable.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1068982#Comment_1068982
Again, please read my wording more carefully. There is nothing "substantially useful" about searching chests or doing totems at the start of the game.
I don't think you're understanding the point of Jund's suggestion. Or maybe you are, and find it unrealistically unfair.
Stealth early game is still completely possible in this scenario, it simply LIMITS the progress survivors are able to make in the first few seconds on the game to allow weaker killers (or killers with set up) to not fall behind so terribly in the early game.
Nobody is suggesting you block all generators, just reduce the speed by which they are repaired. The chances of encountering 4 survivors who all prefer a stealthy playstyle in one game is rather low, so in practice you'd be having this debuff for a very little amount of time before someone else is found and the normal game resumes.
Even if all 4 survivors preferred a stealthy playstyle, it makes no sense for stealthy play to be optimal, as opposed to risky play. Otherwise we might as well have AIs for killers.
After all, being truly stealthy you are not moving fast (in order to not leave scratch marks) and avoiding potential confrontations with the killers, which means you'll be stepping in and out of the gens often when the killer is around.
Now before you say "But why must my playstyle be penalized?", it's being limited in the beginning because the gen rush meta is a big problem in this game (especially for setup heavy killers), and as survivors, taking this small nerf at literally the first few seconds of the match will improve the health and balance of the game greatly. Does is affect stealthy players more? Maybe, but such is the way of balancing, your preferences sometimes get affected more than others.
Finally, please keep in mind this is literally just in the beginning of the game. It can last 10 seconds and have pretty much no impact, or last 80 seconds where a trapper or hag are able to set up without 3 gens popping, from which they are extremely unlikely to recover.
Yes, it's a small nerf to survivor objective speed, but I think it's not only necessary, but balanced enough to not cripple survivors in the late game, when they are arguably weakest.
Most of all, it's EASY to implement, as opposed to re-balancing every killer, perk, item, add on and map. BHVR would just have to iron out some details that could be exploited by certain killers, perks or items and this could be live in a few months.
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Like people are saying, she still has the potential to be the best killer in the game, and those who mastered her before can do just as well with her now probably.
I, personally, just think she's not very fun to play as anymore. Her add-ons have pretty massive downsides, or are just memes/useless for doing well, and the double cooldown mechanic just makes her feel sluggish and unrewarding (even if, with add-ons, the effect isn't too big).
Most of all, the last time I tried nurse on Dedicated Servers I had such an awful time with the rubber banding and the wonky blinks I haven't touched her again after that.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/996045#Comment_996045
OMG my 950 hours in DbD aren't real! Nor are my streams! ;)
Another example of a relevant, well worded and polite thread asking the developers about the intentions of certain, impactful, decision where the main post is completely ignored in favor of meme responses to other irrelevant posts.
You've been called out on this before, are you really just going to keep doing this?
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Yeah but you still have to walk to the gen to fix it, so a toggle wouldn't be enough. My left hand also gets tired from using the WASD keys and maybe I want to scratch my head WHILE I eat doritos so I might need it.
I think maybe just have a "passive gen progress" toggle so you can spawn in the game and no matter what you're doing the gen will just get repaired passively anyway? It'd be a lot less frustrating to play for me (and new players of course).
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I mean, just look at how the Dev Update was worded.
There is absolutely no way anyone can claim there is no bias here, I don't know how many filters that post had to go through before being posted but did nobody stop and say "hey, doesn't this sounds like it's focusing purely on the survivor experience?"
And what the new Ruin does is quite cool, but not on a hex perk. There is rarely a game when a hex perk makes it to end game (unless they activate on end game like NOED), and if they do the reward is usually insurmountable (5 stack Devour for example).
What does it matter if the new Ruin gets to endgame when endgame will arrive 5 minutes into the game, with all 4 survivors alive? The perk ONLY works on gens not being worked on, the killer has to chase 1 of the 4 survivors and the other 3 are free to work on any of the 3 gens without a single penalty.
The only build this perk will be mildly decent on is a 3 gen endgame build, which is far and wide considered the most unfun thing to go against anyway.
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@Raccoon said:
Didn't they say Static Blast would be a full-tier in a previous forum post, and now it is just "an amount?"
Just made a question about this.
I think they did change it.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/935856#Comment_935856
Thing is, you shouldn't analyze data without context. I don't understand how people can't grasp that.
The devs have context, we don't. Would it be nice to see more context in this post? Yes, it absolutely would. But that doesn't mean we can go and interpret the raw data to our heart's content without thinking about what it means.
Exactly, what's the point of releasing this data to the community without context? What does it actually acomplish?
I know the dev team has the context to interpret the meager data they show us and we do not, I never said those posts using the data disclosed are valid.
What I am saying is releasing data without context, and then shutting down any attempts of trying to interpret that data with personal game experience WITHOUT providing the context or reason as to why they're shutting it down is completely scummy.
Now, we get another data post WITHOUT context where we're just supposed to take the devs word for it that THEIR assessment of things is correct.
It's not about the post itself, it's about the principle. The data posts are completely useless and irrelevant without more context or explanation for said data. It just makes those who play the characters in question and disagree with what the data show feel like their opinion and concerns are invalid.
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I love how, when the community uses BHVR's own stats and data to make an argument about a killer/suvivor performance, there's the inevitable dev comment of "well stats are just that, there's a lot more that goes into it, don't take it too seriously".
Now we get another dev using stats, and only stats (barely a months worth, at that), to basically conclude a killer deemed unfun and ineffective by those who play them most, to have ACTUALLY received a buff! And here everyone who got to test the changes and found them detrimental thought they were nerfs! Silly us, what we feel and experience is wrong when there's DATA!
Oh, but only some data. The data that supports dev's decisions. The other data we shouldn't read too much into.
I'm not liking theses mixed messages and double standards.
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I think the changes are solid.
Doc will be sacrificing some tracking for better chase potential and even perhaps better stall.
Static blast doing an entire tier worth of madness is pretty nutty. Add Calm add ons, distressing and higher snap out of it add-on inside The Game map and you can disable all gen progress for over 12 seconds every 60 seconds basically (assuming they're already on T2 of madness).
The only thing I would change is giving the doc more range in his shock attack. They mention a little improvement but that attack needs more than a little improvement.
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I have to agree, and not only for killer. As survivor I have a lot of issues with sound as well.
Generator sounds being all over the place, impossible or downright wrong localization leading you to believe gens are somewhere other than were they are (specially indoor maps like Lery's).
Killer footsteps and terror radius really wonky.
Survivor breathing, grunts of pain and footsteps get completely wrecked by obstructions in a very unnatural way too.
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@Kerowaj said:
Or you know, you could just make mouse and keyboard inputs not stack and leave his power as it was.
Not making conflicting statements on forum in the span of minutes would be also nice.
Also, the glove addon is pretty weak now, it's on the level of power of speed limiter, so now oni is a killer with the most useless ultra rare addons in the game right now.
*Nurse wants to know your location*
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I wish they had the integrity to do so, but unfortunately their numbers and the precedent they've set simply don't allow for that sort of QOL decision to be made.
I believe in the AMA someone asked for this exact thing and a CM stated they are not planning to stop the quarterly DLC updates, but instead will cut down on (free) events to focus on the health of the game.
Which, as you can easily guess, is complete BS.
The true reason they will cut down on events is because:
a) They are free for the users, so while costing resources they do not provide any source of revenue.
b) They need the time to focus on their OTHER paywall content, the Rift.
I've burnt out of this game, tho it can be fun if you just don't take it too seriously and play with friends every now and then.
The entire game is built upon a foundation of toothpicks, and no matter how many DLCs and Battlepasses they release, eventually the sheer lack of quality throughout the game will be its demise. Look no further than PUBG for an example of this; some company with more resources will tap into the asymmetrical horror goldmine, do it properly and just completely blow DBD out of the water.
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So was the flick intended? Was it not intended?
There is a thread were Janik initially states it was never intended and few posts later, in the same thread, he says you should be able to flick 90 degrees as intended. What?
Also it was not mentioned, but Scott Jund demonstrated you can only flick at the last few frames of the attack of the demon dash, so instead of going a sharp 90 degree turn it's more of a slow 10 degree curve for 95% of the attack and then a sharp 90 degree turn on the last moment, which means if the survivor turn a corner they cannot get hit at all since you'll overshoot them initially while trying to turn and then just smash in their general direction but meters away from where they are.
I hope your upcoming change reverts this, as you're planning, because right now the Oni feels like you're trying to turn a 16 wheeler around a Micky D's drive thru.
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I'm happy I bought him with shards.
Since the ST DLC I decided BHVR won't get any more of my money again until I decide they've improved on their game enough to warrant it.
Also massively relieved I never got the Legion, seeing as how terribly they've treated that product.
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Someone I know (who plays Billy a lot) found out that if you bind your Q and E keys for camera turning, you can use that along with a mouse flick to turn up to about 240 degrees on the Demon Sprint. So whatever flick nerf they gave him can apparently be circumvented by this, making him really strong if you're skillful enough.
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Yeah that's a big no.
The pallet count and distribution is an extremely delicate balance, in fact it's been a topic of some controversy since the game came out.
It's taken the devs about 3 years to reach something close to a balanced distribution of pallets in the maps, that allow survivors some defense without being extremely safe every time. I don't think ANYTHING in the game (offerings, add-ons, perks, etc.) Should mess with pallet distributions.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/855128#Comment_855128
It shouldn't be a skill check because I can't macro a skill check and do nothing the entire time like I've done for thousands of hours now.
So... You don't want your lazy alternative that cannot be used on console to be removed because you will now have to actually do something instead of using a macro? Yeah, nah.
Anyway, the skillchecks I propose will be more than generous when the struggle phase starts, say half the circle like I mentioned, so maybe you will die the first game because you don't know it's coming but any more than that won't really be common at all, otherwise you'd just not be able to do any objectives anyway.
I'd rather it be something completely different too, something fun or visually interesting, but I think the skillchecks would be easy and quick to implement so that's something the devs could do in a single midchapter patch.
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Scott jumped the gun on calling him uncounterable I think.
He is an extremely skilled killer. True that he tested with Oh Tofu who is a very skilled player as well, but finding counterplay always takes longer than just learning to use the power.
Just as you can't balance around potato ranks, you also can't just balance around a man who plays DBD 12 hours a day for a living.
For Oni to be uncounterable at loops, you have to be very obvious with your pathing as survivor and they have to perform theirs flawlessly, it won't be that common for most of the player base.
He is strong no doubt, but I'm sure a Nurse that NEVER makes a mistake is far stronger, and that doesn't really happen, so why expect Oni players won't ever make a mistake either?
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Increasingly more difficult skillchecks every other second, starting from about half the circle, would probably be a good solution to this.
It keeps it tense and interactive without being so incredibly obnoxious.
By the end of your bar, the most "difficult" skillcheck could be something close to a DS skillcheck. A bit more challenging but by no means too hard to hit.
I've lost hopes the devs will change struggle soon though. It's been requested since forever and they still haven't done anything about it at all. Probably because it doesn't make them any money.
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@Almo said:
We did not change Deep Wound time just to "fix" Legion. It was an idea we came up with that could help with the Legion frustration problems, but then we evaluated it and the other ramifications it would have. We decided that it was a good idea for several reasons and went with it.
Could you elaborate on those reasons that made you think it was a good idea?
I don't want to be rude, but it feels to me like you (the devs) are not playing the same game the community is. You keep changing the things that don't need to be changed and ignoring the urgent ones.
I don't think I've ever seen a single message in here, or in Reddit, that says the mending time is the reason Legion is frustrating to play against. Actually, I don't think anyone considers Legion to be a source of frustration since the rework EXCEPT the Legion mains!
Same deal with Spirit, you slightly nerf her without really tackling the issue most survivors had. I'm not saying she should've been nerfed harder, but maybe take a bit more time to assess and fix the core of the problem than just change some numbers here and there that will not improve the situation in the slightest?
Nurse was not made particularly weaker after the update either (in the right hands), just much harder to pick up and significantly less enjoyable to play.
I guess I'm just a bit tired of you guys saying that this is "our" game when you make changes that go opposite of what most of the community wants or needs. Including much requested features like scrapping the struggle mechanic, colorblind options, etc.
Probably because those will not generate more revenue, so why add them?
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Actually they should make him 105% speed until he activates his demon form, but he can only activate it once 4 gens are done.
Oh also also, if he gets stunned he gets teleported to a corner of the map in timeout for 40 seconds. We can't have him being too strong.
We gotta buff him to make up for the nerf tho, so he will be given a the ability to see special colored scratch marks that will allow colorblind people to actually play this game, but only he gets that ability, it's not a setting in the game.
It also means you can't get him with shards anymore, $12.99 or 1500 auric cells only.
He also dies instantly if he misses a swing.
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@Peanits said:
I know this isn't a very serious thread, but let's try to turn this into something constructive. How many average kills do you think something should get per match before you consider it to be overperforming? We can talk specifically about red ranks if you prefer.
You're asking the wrong question.
The problem is the Emblem system. It is not set-up in a way that every match always has a loser side and a winner side; sometimes both sides can win (pip) or lose (black pip, negative pip).
In a perfect world 2 kills should be a good average to strive for, but the emblem system doesn't give a damn about the kills. you can get 1 kill but max out on all other emblems and still pip, or get 3 kills and still black pip because the game went too fast.
You guys need to take a look at how "winning" and "losing" is determined before saying stuff like "over-performing" and making changes to either side.
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I think the changes were pretty spot on, though time will tell.
Retracing your steps while she phases in a chase is now a legit strategy cause she won't bump into you, and vault animation because it needs to be consistent with every other killer.
I honestly don't think there's a way to make her have more counter-play without completely destroying her power. The devs backed themselves into a corner with her design because if she has a tell when activating her power she'd be pretty weak, if she doesn't she becomes a coinflip.
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I think the changes were pretty spot on, though time will tell.
Retracing your steps while she phases in a chase is now a legit strategy cause she won't bump into you, and vault animation because it needs to be consistent with every other killer.
I honestly don't think there's a way to make her have more counter-play without completely destroying her power. The devs backed themselves into a corner with her design because if she has a tell when activating her power she'd be pretty weak, if she doesn't she becomes a coinflip.
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Not excited at all.
I'm hoping I'm terribly mistake and the trailer is a massive red herring to what the content will be, but if it is what we all think it is, I *might* only buy it with shards of available, not spending money on it.
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Weaker, stronger, the same. None of that truly matters
The point is that Nurse now feels less fun and enjoyable to play as. The "fun" add-ons hurt her lethality so bad it makes you miserable to even try to play as Nurse with them on.
Since the update I have not seen a single Nurse in my survivor games (I'm rank 3), and when I play killer I have no desire to play her anymore, though that is also because dedicated servers have completely destroyed the accuracy of your blinks anyway.
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It's just the entire way they go about updating the game..
And before anyone says "iF yOu ArE sO SmArT wHeReS uR gAmE?11", I do not claim developing asymmetrical horror games is a breeze, and I have no clue how to even code anything, but I've been gaming my whole life and I can tell when developers are listening to feedback and really trying to improve the game for the players.
I do not think the DBD devs know very well what is best for their game, and yet they make rash decisions on both new and existing content that just do not work most of the time.
Example:
Some DLC is rushed out to the PTB with minimal optimization every 3 months (which is super quick for the size of their team). The content is alright but the new mechanics/changes/balance bring with them tons of (often game breaking) bugs, now the devs have only 2 weeks to address the bugs and balance the killer and suvivor (perks) before they go live. Naturally the bug fixing HAS to take priority and we're left with absolutely no changes to the content even if overwhelming feedback was given, or worse yet, they massively nerf stuff so they don't risk outrage (like Freddy when he came out) and just say "We'll fix that in the future".
This MO of releasing half-assed content every 3 months that they KNOW will have to be changed/reworked later just makes their resources and time stretch thinner and thinner, it is not a sustainable way to develop a game, or do anything really. Why can't we have optimized, well though-out content every 6 months instead? Where the PTB is much longer and feedback can actually be tested and bugs fixed BEFORE the content comes out?
That isn't the only problem, the devs also suffer from a "nerf instead of buff" mentality where if something is too strong, they decide to immediately nerf it instead of buffing the other side's counterplay to it. Then the other side becomes a bit too strong because they do not have to deal with the aforementioned thing and so they get a nerf too. This becomes a vicious cycle where each side gets progressively more superficial to play and requires less skill, effectively killing the fun for most people who enjoy challenging games and creating a boring, repetitive experience that they try to refresh with super often new content (unsuccessfully).
TL;DR
DLC is released too often for it to be balanced and bug free, likewise the PTB is too shorty to fix both the bugs and do the balancing (former takes priority). This means everything has to be eventually "reworked" anyway which wastes time and resources.
Devs prefer to nerf each side back and forth instead of buffing the counterplay to something that is too powerful, making the game superficial, repetitive and quite frankly boring.
I just wished the devs were more about quality instead of quantity, but they gotta get the revenue from somewhere right? No matter how bad that content is, it will not be delayed or pushed back when there's money to be made.
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I've said it before, I'll say it again:
The base kit nerfs are not just affecting her chase potential, they affect her map mobility A LOT.
To even get to survivor before they can hide (as soon as they hear your TR) you NEED to use the blinks. You get there with no blinks, you go through fatigue allowing survivors a head start to run, hide or juke, and THEN you have to SLOWLY walk for 3.5 seconds before you get your 2nd blink back. Believe me, against any decent survivor you will need 2 blinks to hit them once you find them, and I won't even talk about what happens if they have SB or DH.
Alright, forget the competitive aspect of the nerfs, the new changes are not FUN for Nurse players. They make her feel sluggish and unrewarding.
Having 2 cooldowns is annoying and boring. I'm all for nerfing the Nurse's lethality at high skill levels, but this was done HORRIBLY and with no regard to how much it would affect the fun of playing her.
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Well, it's gonna be a simple matter of getting into a 4 man SWF and contacting the killer via Steam or whatever platform you play on so you can just... help each other complete this ridiculous challenges.
For example they could let you save 3 people during the EGC to get the challenge and then you let him hook you all on the basement so killer gets theirs.
I honestly see absolutely no other way to do some of these for either side. This just shows (again) how incredibly disconnected the gameplay devs are with the way this game is played.
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This is true, I am rank 3 survivor right now after probably a week or so of playing and I do not feel like I deserve it (I've played with other red ranks that put me to shame).
The thing is that it isn't really a "ranking" system like other games, where the rank distribution is % based. Here, if we all farmed with the killer every match so we all basically max out our categories, everyone would be in red ranks.
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Bad move tying the Serum to the battlepass.
The "event" is just a reskin of hooks and gens with some cool background on the main menu.
Sure the extra BP is nice, and the skin are absolutely amazing, but it doesn't feel like a Halloween event, it feels like a regular battle pass.
Think about it, the coolest part of the "event" (the skins and the lore) can be done completely after the actual event days.
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I feel devs listen to feedback in a very broad sense. If people complain about something for long enough, it'll get changed.
The problem I think OP has (and I also share) is about feedback on specific changes and their values, not the changes themselves.
BHVR has shown good instinct on initial changes and nerfs for the most part, I just don't understand the necessity to further nerf thing that felt properly nerfed in the first place, especially when they get tons of feedback saying so, for the live build.
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I am not calling you specifically entitled @Mochan. It was a general statement.
And I agree with you on most of what you say, shaking the meta would be an improvement of the game.
I just do not agree with how the devs have been handling changes. I am a fan of the "buff not nerf" approach to multiplayer games.
Lately it has been one nerf after another for both killers and survivors (except Freddy rework), and it just makes the game less fun to me.
Instead of nerfing BBQ, how about we buff other killer perks? And in turn buff their counterplay for survivors? Raise the skill curling not lower it.
Besides, if BBQ stops being used so much, you're gonna see a lot more proxy camping than it is now. The perk literally encourages interactions between ALL the survivors and the killer, which is a good thing.
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Lobbies are slow in general, but I can see why Killers have to sweat so hard in events. It's the only way to get stuff done.
However, since this event is only for BP and not the putrid serum, I barely think it's worth trying to get the event gens or hooks specifically.
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Am I crazy for thinking Killers should get points if an event gen is done (if they put down an offering) and survivors should get points if the killer uses an event hook (again, assuming they put down the offering)?
I know they are competing against each other but man it is so much easier to get the extra BP as survivor since even if you don't do anything as long as you put down the offering you get the gen extra BP. As killer you have to do it all yourself!
I don't think anyone would complain if both sides got more BP.
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I play on higher setting and skillchecks are very strange. Some will be butter smooth 60fps and some will be a choppy mess.
My suggestion is to not only disable v-sync and put everything on low if you're getting frame drops, but to also go into your GPU manager (Nvidia control panel if you have one of those) and disable some GPU and Memory intensive setting for DBD specifically.
That or save up and upgrade your PC =P
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/798459#Comment_798459
BBQ does have counters for stealth players:
- lockers
- gen auras
- discordance
- sole survivor
- being inside the TR
Those are just 5 off the top of my head... but I've heard there are 7 out there in total.
I suppose it's a symptom of the grind that's in place. If the grind wasn't so bad, I don't think BBQ would be as prevalent... but then I have a feeling you'd find another perk to complain about.
@Mochan This.
The fact you know there's a 90% chance the killer is running BBQ means you should be using the counters that are available to you if you want to play stealthy.
Not using them because "it's just not your playstyle" is entitled and shows a lack of willingness to adapt.
Same thing can be said for survivors who face a Nurse and "looping" is their preferred playstyle, they will die because you need to play stealthier against the Nurse since loops are not reliable.
Or Killers who get annoyed at stuff like DS, because they like to relieve the pressure of 4 survivors and quickly kill 1 of them. They will eat the DS and lose a bunch of time.
I'm not saying Keys are OP (aside from some specific situations), but this game runs on counters and counter-counters pretty much every game. Just like Plunderers could now counter Franklins (and I don't think that is wrong in the least), you can run SS, Distortion, or do any of the counters to BBQ if you know the killer is running it.
I think, when we start discussing nerfs and/or buff, we need to take a look at what (if any) counters there are to the subject in question, how many they are, if they are reliable, if they can be preformed with or without perks and how effective they are as counters.
I think BBQ has way too many, erffective, counters to be considered OP. Honestly most killer probably run it for the BP gains for the most part (I like surveillance more for gen protecting and map info but I need muh points).
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@Mochan said:
I have always thought that keys just as they were were fine. Because they had counters. Not perfect hard counters, but counters nonetheless. Hard counters are bad for this game, after all.
But it seems the recent "change" to Plunderers has introduced a hard counter to the soft counter to keys that was Franklin's Demise.
Now, even if you make survivors drop the keys, we can just see them again! Oh yeah!
(To be clear: I don't like the changes to Plunderer's because now I can't see chests that were opened by other unscrupulous survivors who were so greedy they dared to open one of my rightful legally-entitled chests. That means I may be running around the map looking for the third chest but it's already been opened!)
But for all you who depend on Franklin's to counter items, sorry. Now my perk counters yours. In a fashion.
This is curious to me because I've seen you complain about BBQ and Chili many, many times even though the perk has at least 4 soft counters to it.
So you think a hard counter to that perk is warranted but a hard counter to Keys is not?
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Why do people not understand that her power, unlike most other killers, is necessary just for her to be able to GET anywhere, not just to win chases.
Maybe in chase the base kit changes won't be so terrible on good Nurses, but traveling through the map now is going to be a pain because you will need to use 2 blinks to get to where survivors might be and then suffer fatigue AND the recharge cooldown just to start the chase.
Sure you can use the recharge add ons to get something similar to old nurse, but then the rest of the add-ons will become completely unused by any Nurse that wants to do well in high ranks. Making the rework on then pointless.
"But maybe its not about winning! It's about having fun!" I hear you scream from the back. And you are right, but using the "fun" add-ons is not fun when your character feels sluggish and you feel like you stand no chance to do well. It's just frustrating.
I'm sure there was a way to make Nurse have more counterplay and keep being fun to play as, but these changes weren't it.
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When I play on my own I play killer, when I play with friends I do survivor (obviously).
I find both equally fun and equally frustrating sometimes, but I have to say that I tend to want killers buffed more because as survivor it is very boring when a killer is really weak and you just sit on gens for 10 minutes until you win.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/794778#Comment_794778
"Nurse mains HAVE to run recharge add-ons"
Except for the good ones who will easily adapt to the cooldown and be free to use any add ons they like.
Yeah, they'll adapt by USING the recharge add-ons. They are consistently the strongest ones you can use after the rework.
This is not about adapting, there's no "adapting" to not being able to use your blinks right away while moving as slow as the nurse. It just makes you a weaker killer in most chases.
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I think what makes killers usually get points easier is how the game-flow unfolds in a game of DBD:
All of the actions the killer does to gain BP are the same for them succeed in their objective (sacrifice survivors), and they kind of seamlessly link and flow into one another.
Find Survivor>Chase>Use Power>Hit>Hook>Repeat
The killer needs to do no more than what they have to do to win the game to max out (or nearly) all of their BP categories.
On the other hand, survivors are usually pushed into doing one or two of the main categories they need to max out their BP. Some of them are reactionary and depend on how well the killer does (altruism) and are not directly their objective to survive.
For example:
If you are chased all game, you will max out on boldness but get nothing on altruism and objective points.
If you do gens all game, you will max out objective but get nothing on boldness and altruism.
If you save/heal people all game, you will max out on altruism but get nothing on boldness and objective.
Sometimes you can do a bit of each, but unless you're farming you will virtually never max out on all categories. Which is something the killer can do in a regular game but hooking everyone 3 times and using their power effectively.
So it is not that killers get an unfair amount of points, it is that survivors get an unfair amount of points.
Just give the guy who is being chased some lightbringer points if a gen pops while they are in chase. Or some altruism points if someone safely unhooks someone else while you're fixing up the gens. Survivors are supposed to be one team after all, so they should gain points as a team instead of only as individuals.
PS: I know this already exists with stuff like "Distraction" and "Assist" BP events, but we need a lot more of those, with a lot higher BP gain.
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@Huntedfailure said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/794335#Comment_794335
They not only have a schedule to keep up with that most other game company with even larger teams don't have along with having to make sure that nothing is broken to the point of it being unplayable.
Who's fault is that though? They have chosen their own pace to release content. It's a classic case of "biting more than you can chew".
You do realize people have paid money to play this game right? It sounds like you are defending them on the premise of everything they have done has been a charitable act for us.
It is not.
Promised content and a working, playable build is EXPECTED. This is true for every single product and service on the market.
Imagine going to a restaurant, where you order and pay for a hamburger and fries. They collect you money and tell you the order will be out in 10 minutes. If you receive a hamburger and fries in 10 minutes, is it anything more than you expected? What if you're waiting for 45 minutes? Or if they did not give you the fries? Wouldn't you be upset? What if this happened EVERY time you went to the restaurant, and not just once?
Would you say "oh give them a break, some restaurants take up to 25 minutes to get your order out, these guys have to do it in 10"? Or was it their fault for saying they would have it ready in 10 minutes when they couldn't deliver?
The world is extremely competitive, you either deliver or exceed expectations or you'll be (rightfully) sunk down by the competition who does.
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Yeah it's a mean thing to do if unprovoked.
However, I've had teammates before who do absolutely NOTHING all game except crouch, hide and generally be useless. Basically throwing the game.
That might be the only time I think snitching on them is warranted. You want the dead weight off your team and them being hooked/downed might distract the killer from the rest of the team who are actually doing something.
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Not really.
Equip the blink recharge add-ons and the good ol' Nurse will be the same as always. Destroying survivors and ignoring game mechanics.
So what is the end result of this "rework"?
Survivors will not get any more counterplay than before (with recharge add-ons), and still be frustrated by the top Nurse players who killed them with base Nurse anyway.
Nurse mains will be bored because now they HAVE to run the recharge add-ons to do well with her, so there will be no variety and her new add-ons will only be seen in meme builds by content creators.
So basically, all the base kit rework is doing is making playing as Nurse less fun for killers, since now she needs the add-ons to be played as before. Survivors will still get destroyed by good nurses, that won't change.
I think they did a pretty good job so far.
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It's a bit more complicated to notice sometimes.
For example, when I play with my friends, I will sometimes unhook my friend right before he goes to struggle of the sacrifice even if the killer is close. This is because the killer will end up wasting time re-downing and re-hooking my friend and the end result will be the same (struggle phase). That is not farming per se, and I've encountered many survivors who do this because it is the optimal play.
Assuming, however, that the survivor is sandbagging their team and clearly farming them for points or WGLF stacks. I will tunnel the farmer and possibly farm points with the rest of the team (assuming they want to).
Call me vengeful, but I think purposely and selfishly making other people's experience unfun and frustrating should be punished as severely as possible, to deter them from doing it again.
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@justarandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/792651#Comment_792651
Spirit requires less skill than Billy. All you need for spirit is good headphones and good ears.
And for Billy you just need a right hand.
Seriously though, both Billy and Spirit have great map mobility, but these are the differences than make a mediocre billy a much higher threat than a mediocre Spirit:
-Spirit has a power bar cooldown, Billy does not.
-Spirit cannot see survivors while phasing, Billy can while sprinting.
-Spirit moves at 4.4m/s, Billy at 4.6m/s
-Spirit's power allow for normal hits, Billy is an instadown.
-Spirit's power cannot break Palletes, Billy can.
A good spirit has to use her power, mobility and mindgames properly to be a threat. Spirits who just chase like normal M1 killers will probably get bullied, so there's definitely a good amount of skill and game knowledge required to play the Spirit.
There's a reason Billy is one of the first killers a new player will pick up, his power has no downsides, incredible utility and besides learning how to drift and flick the chainsaw, there isn't much depth to him.
TL;DR
At casual and mid level, Billy is a much bigger threat than Spirit. This tends to indicate that to do well with Spirit you need to develop skill and game knowledge much further than to do well with Billy.