Valimure
Valimure
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- Valimure
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063866#Comment_4063866
Facts. The map is awful. Outdated. Needs to go.
Oh 100% agree. Every pallet is safe, and every building is a god loop. It's insane how it hasn't been reworked yet.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4056686#Comment_4056686
So, fair…doesn't mean what you think it means.
I'd love to hear your arguments as well and we can actually have a discussion!
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4056149#Comment_4056149
So basically you want 2 main buildings?
Yeah, I think it would be pretty fair for how open the map is in general compared to most others.
As killer you're very susceptible to blinds because there's very few walls to stare at. As survivor, the map has a lot of dead zones with no pallets - even in 2v8.
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Run Boon:Exponential and just laugh when they try to do this :D
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TBH as a Dredge main I don't think he needs that significant of buffs; the add-on changes are what are really needed. I basically run Doll + Recorder every single game because everything else sucks.
Looking at locker density would go a long way to help as well. So many killers get their unique interactables scattered throughout the map, I don't think it would be particularly difficult to do the same thing for additional lockers when it's Dredge. I really struggle on maps like Coldwind, Shelter Woods, and The Game because lockers just don't exist in half the map.
Anyways, nice write up. In particular I'd love to see us finally get some Iri add-ons that actually do something. :P
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Tonics need to be better for killer. I'd propose:
Blue: 90 seconds of Lightborn
Green: All Survivor suffer from Exposed for 60 seconds
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Are we sure that there are only four zombies in 2v8? Because I swear to God there's one on every single generator I'm trying to do lol
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Rotten Fields feels pretty empty / open still. Would be nice to have the house + barn on opposite ends.
Still having major issues with Greenville. Please add at least one generator spawn to the parking lot, potentially even two. Right now, it's completely barren and empty causing the rest of the gen spread to be way too close together.
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Now that there are five survivor classes, I think it's time to lower the maximum number of one class from four down to three (or possibly even two.)
It's much more interesting seeing a varied team composition than everyone running the same things, and it also encourages more people to actually do objectives instead of float around the killer all game.
As killer, the one extremely annoying thing I'm consistently running into is our lack of blind immunity during grab animations. It's especially bad on Wesker when you land a great wall grab but people are hovering around with Flashbangs, and even worse when survivors are doing gens in your face because they know you can't just grab them off of it without being blinded.
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@SoGo said:
Yes, yes, this.
I would even suggest this for the regular game.
The parking lot is always empty, and it always feels like a waste of space.
In general, Greenville has a problem with the gens forming a cluster in the middle and the theatre side ending up a zone where no one goes.
True, 1v4 would really benefit from it having a gen in that corner as well. I think it's just especially noticeable in 2v8 due to how many extra gens there are!
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When I queue up I'm doing chores or on the toilet while I wait. I need that minute to finish up and make it back to the computer. :P
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Bumping this up as I just had two of the same map back to back.
In the second one, the Jane brought a Coldwind offering that obviously got rejected; I'm guessing map offerings are canceling all map repetition prevention, even if the map isn't chosen.
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I had a lot more difficulty doing this as a survivor, killer can climb them quite easily… but will hit collision if they try to attack, oddly enough.
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Dredge, Artist, Plague
Dredge because I feel like Nightfall actually brings a bit of horror into the game and it's fun to jumpscare people from lockers.
Artist because I used to main Vel'koz in League of Legends so I love using geometry to get hits from a distance.
Plague because it's hilarious to see a lobby of full med kits and know they're gonna be worthless.
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@Silentium said:
Is there a point on playing against ghoul on any map that's not indoors?
I mean that's a whole 'nother can of worms in and of itself lol.
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Skull Merchant getting haste from some doofus across the map when you were the one being chased was enough for me to see that's not a fun mechanic. 10% would also be way too high.
Bloody Coil is already one of his best add-ons, buffing it with your suggestion would make it completely oppressive, especially when paired with Iridescent Stone.
As someone who played my fair share of Trapper, some buffs that might help:
- Basekit Trapper Sack (so he starts with all traps)
- Increase the disarm time from 3.5 seconds to 5 seconds
- Remove ability to trigger his own traps / allow him to walk over them
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SWFs using Sprint Burst 2 or 3 times in the same chase is just excellent.
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@SmokinACES109 said:
It does nothing except stun the killer once per trial. Whats the problem here?
From what I understand once charged it gives you permanent Finesse, Quick and Quiet, and a smaller hitbox until you actually use the stun.
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It has nothing to do with Fog Vials. Maybe their implementation caused it, but you can load into a custom bot game and test this.
Chase begins as normal, but upon losing LoS you can no longer trigger chase until you hit a survivor, which then starts and subsequently ends chase again as soon as they break LoS once more.
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@EinRaikou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972411#Comment_3972411
Shack is effectively unbeatable unless running bamboozle, as the windows dont block due to chase not starting. Survivors can vault back and forth endlessly.
Not only Shack but a lot of main buildings as well. Without bloodlust and window blockers... Playing pretty much any M1 killer right now just isn't viable.
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Hopefully this is priority #1.
The game is entirely unplayable because of this bug.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972140#Comment_3972140
His map mobility is not that insane, simply because survivors can tell you are teleporting and often can even see where, then simply prerun…
I would say it's same, or slightly worse than Dredge mobility. Far worse than Kaneki, Blight, Billy…Pretty sure the audio thing is a bug, but as someone who mains Dredge and knows how utterly map dependent he is… I honestly think Springtrap (and any killer who has their power-specific item placed near gens) is a lot better off with their teleports.
Shelter Woods, for instance, has 8 lockers throughout the entire map. The Game only has two sets of lockers on the entire upper part of the map. Ormond has one half of the map that only has a single set of lockers in it. It's sad :(
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You can do this with virtually any loop, chase only initiates if the killer can see you so you can just walk around corners and then run again.
If we're talking about this loop though we also need to talk about Garden of Joy, Father Campbell's Chapel, Disturbed Ward, Badham, and Glenvale.
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While all killers have a weak early game, Oni is especially bad in that he essentially doesn't have a power until you've injured a survivor. You really need to snowball the match in your favor by making the most of his power, so I wouldn't suggest him for someone new to killer.
I'll also say that the first two generators essentially don't matter. You're pretty much guaranteed to lose them no matter what killer you're playing unless you have a really good first chase. Bring a good combination of slowdown + chase / information perks to help keep rolling that snowball downhill after you've gotten that first hook.
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It's unfortunately one of those things that is very rarely used in solo queue and just being abused by SWF teams.
You can't really nerf it without potentially screwing over the majority of the survivor playerbase who aren't using it in that way.
I've also had the thought that protection hits should count as conspicuous actions, but the problem is that there are so many situations that the killer can force something to count as a protection hit when it really isn't (hitting right off hook) and then there's issues.
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Why is this still an issue costing me downs?
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@Skitten56 said:
These would be a nice changes to the map. Balanced Landing is just so map and rng dependent as it is. It is the main reason I stopped using it. I thought for sure on the new map Balanced Landing could be used on the back dock and rear windows but it just doesn't.
It would be great if BHVR added an additional effect to it to make up for this inconsistency. I personally think the perk should reduce all the survivor's falling sounds all the time, regardless of whether the survivor is exhausted or not. This would at least give it more usability, though not really much to make up for perks weak points.
Yeah it just seems like they totally overlooked it when making this map… I was going through them to see if there was any other map in the game where it's not usable at least somewhere and found it was the only map without a two story building or hill.
Silencing the sound of falling wouldn't be too strong I think, yeah. Might be a nice little bonus since it is pretty situational.
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The biggest issue I have with bots is that they become absolutely worthless inside the killer's terror radius.
All they do is hide in a locker or run for their lives if the killer comes anywhere near them.
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lol, the downvotes are hilarious.
You try to help someone and people with zero game sense who don't actually want to have a discussion but instead just complain rush to push a button because they have no actual argument to make.
Can't imagine why this game is dying. :P
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Scott actually did a video a couple days ago explaining how running too many slowdown perks is detrimental:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mx6XvVVSE4Getting a quick down during that first chase is super important to snowballing the game. You have two perks that essentially require you to find and chase the obsession first without actually intending to down them, and that can eat up a significant chunk of time.
Pain Res and Gift of Pain are both great and I run them as well (Gift of Pain is double slowdown due to essentially having Sloppy Butcher built in as well) but I'd switch up at least Dying Light for a better chase perk, depending on who you're playing.
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@Haddix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967697#Comment_3967697
Uhh that's blatantly, provably false.
- Springtrap has a 2-second throw recovery at which he slowly moves 2.76m/s.
- Huntress has a 2-second throw recovery where she moves at quickly at 3.74m/s.
Her post-shot cooldown is literally better than his by a large margin.
You're free to test in-game or look directly on the wiki's very useful movement speed page!
Interesting, it's listed differently on his wiki.gg page vs Huntress' for some reason. Thanks for the correction.
Still… It only takes 4 to 5 seconds to catch someone after landing a Hatchet. Don't think landing it needs to be made easier.
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@HexPectoPatronum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967697#Comment_3967697
That's not true, they both have a cooldown of 2 seconds according to DbD wiki and I noticed the same when I played him. Yeah, he doesn't have to reload but he only has one axe, while Anna has 7 hatchets. It balances out. I give you the map mobility, but that hasn't been the point of my post. It's not about making Springtrap and Huntress both equally strong, it's about a little buff for Springtrap. The rest is fine.
He's not slowed during it, he just can't buffer any other commands during those two seconds.
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He already gets faster after throwing it.
He also doesn't have to spend time reloading, and he has one of the fastest cross-map traversal teleports in the game.
Don't think he needs any buffs; he's honestly one of the more balanced killers on release we've had in awhile.
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As a Dredge main, all I need are:
- Additional locker spawns near generators if there aren't any there.
- Reverse the mechanic forcing him to spawn into locked lockers; if any in a set are unlocked, he goes to that one instead.
It takes .2 seconds for survivors to completely neuter his power which is extremely outdated with the killers we have on the roster now. If I use the power and incur the full recharge time to emerge from a locked locker, it's already enough additional slowdown for me to just bust every other lock in the vicinity without being potentially neutered again if I need to teleport there in the future.
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@Stibfa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967007#Comment_3967007
Yeah you want to back that claim up?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8Q1G2BNEFIBS/1000025923.gif
If ghouls skill ceilling is so low please Post a clip of you bodyblocking survivors mid loop like this. Hes easy right? So it wouldnt be an issue. Just play a game and get a clip!
That was definitely a skillful play and an instance where it's cool to get downed; you outplayed the survivor. I think my issue is more with how low his skill floor is rather than how high the skill ceilings goes.
In that clip I noticed you used all three dashes. What if the cooldown was left as-is when used this way, but changed to a 2.3m/s slow for 2.5 seconds (like Legion) if it's canceled early?
This would deal with my primary issue with him, which is using his vault to just instantly close distance and invalidate pretty much any loop.
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@PR0BKA said:
Skill issue. Ghoul becomes m1 in 90% of loops after getting first hit. If you cant loop m1 killer please consider learning how to play of quit the game.
If the loop takes longer than two seconds to make it around then Kaneki wins.
If it's less than two seconds then it can be mind gamed and Kaneki wins.
Vaulting a window or a pallet is worthless when he can catch up with zero effort and no distance is made upon him canceling power.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965159#Comment_3965159
Geting hits at a loop without using the vault is almost impossible if the survivor has any brain. His power isn't like Blight that you can hit at any time during the dash. Also his leaps is very imprecise and difficult to control where you want to be exactly.
Blight cannot attack during the first dash.
But also, because Ghoul has no slowdown upon canceling power it's incredibly easy to catch someone after vaulting before they can even make it back around to that vault. He makes God pallets worthless.
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@CrypticGirl said:
They're actually introducing a "play while you wait" thing in 2v8, but I have so many questions about it. Like, if a Killer lobby is found in the middle of their Survivor match, what happens? Does the Survivor get DC'd as they're transferred to the Killer lobby? Or do the Survivors have to wait while the Killer finishes their Survivor match?
It sounds like it will just save your place in the queue. So a match wouldn't necessarily be "found" while you're in the middle of another match, but when you get out of that match you'll be higher up in the killer queue than when you initially queued up.
My assumption though, is that with multiple people using it… you're still going to go 3-4 survivor matches before you get your spot as killer.
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964651#Comment_3964651
Because Ghoul is new and strong. And plently of people complain about Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Springtrap, and Dracula…….. those are some of the killers I've seen the most "go nexts" against before the update (bar springtrap, who has gotten threads demanding nerfs)
Hey y'know what, sure let's leave it as is.
Can't wait to see it get the SM treatment instead of the slight adjustments it needs.
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…Now that I think about it I actually haven't even seen Springtrap's map since the showcase ended. Did they forget to put it into the regular rotation?
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@letmeworkatbehavier said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964698#Comment_3964698
this is coming from my experience as killer but the window blocker is actually more over powered than I thought
Yeah used correctly in shack or a main building it puts me back so far in a chase.
I do agree that the entire event still favors killers a bit though. Remote hooks are amazing for Scourge Hooks, which sometimes end up screwing me over in main matches.
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The pallets are the worst power.
The window blocker is what you want to use, it's downright godlike on the right windows and can basically reset a chase back to square one.
Stealth is also super underrated. It's easy to lose a killer in a jungle gym with it.
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Bumping because this is apparently still bugged. I was so confused on Dredge - I could hear the heartbeat but I couldn't see Killer Instinct anywhere.
Good to know for the future I guess, I'll just teleport to all lockers in the vicinity.
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You also can't shift + w away from
- Huntress
- Springtrap
- Executioner
- Deathslinger
- Demogorgon
- Wesker
- Blight
- Nurse
- Trickster
- Nemesis
- Xenomorph
- Unknown
- Dracula
Yet I don't see as many threads about those killers. Wonder why that is?
Oh, right. Because there's skillshots to dodge and punishment for the killer missing.
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He needs some actual slowdown upon dashing like every other killer in the game. I'm tired of this mechanic of "Ghoul landed near me and there's not a pallet or window within 6 meters, so I lose."
My rough idea for a rework:
- Remove ability to injure / deep wound from a distance with power
- Kagune Leap now has two modes: Grab and Leap.
- Grab uses a 20m max distance projectile like Deathslinger to grab a survivor; if it connects, the survivor is instantly pulled towards the Ghoul and the Ghoul is pulled forward relative to the distance the projectile traveled (Something like 20-14m = 6m each, 14-10m = 5m each, 10-6m = 4m each, <6m = 3m each) If the two collide as a result of this power, the survivor is injured or downed. This cannot injure over pallets, but can injure through windows.
- Leap essentially works as it does now and allows free movement using grappling.
- After using his power, the Ghoul is slowed to 2.3 m/s for 2 seconds.
He retains the 4.6 m/s move speed and mobility to differentiate him from Deathslinger (which is also why it's not an automatic injury from his power) but survivors actually have the ability to try and dodge a projectile or have an extra couple of meters of distance if he chooses to simply land next to them.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963869#Comment_3963869
Why should the killer get to choose a map at 100% success rate but not the survivors? It's not any more fair regardless of which side does it. The offering nerfs were needed for both sides, no one should be able to guarantee a map.
It's an asymmetric game; killer is supposed to be the power role.
As I said in that post, there are also specific builds that require certain maps to work, such as Scratched Mirror Myers.
But let me be more clear… I'm in favor of leaving it the way it is now. 20% chance is fine. All I'm saying is that, if they wanted to change it further, turning it into a better game of cat and mouse where the killer can choose one map but four survivors have the opportunity to block it would be a lot more fair than the old system used to be.
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It would also help the situation tremendously if Behavior did a full balance pass of the maps and fixed the major outliers.
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The changes were fine and needed.
If they were going to change them further, it would make far more sense to allow killers to choose the map at a 100% rate to allow specific builds to work while Survivors have the option of banning maps with their add-ons. Add in Sacrificial Wards for Survivors as well, of course.
I've only seen a killer bring a map offering not related to their build / when trying to get adept a small handful of times. Meanwhile, when playing killer I was being brought to Autohaven, Eyrie, or The Game every other match.
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Generally when you make balance changes the goal is to make small, incremental tweaks over time and see how that affects the meta.
Not completely blow up the game.
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This thread is several years old and necro'ing it is going to confuse people…
You'd be better off making a new thread, especially since Distortion has already been nerfed (what the OP was asking for.)