How Was MMR Changed?
Before it was based on kills but now it's based on …what?
For those that want to raise their MMR, it's a great change. No matter what you do if you're trying your MMR will go up …or what?
I just want to understand.
I was never one to take up nasty strategies like tunneling or slugging from the start of a match. I like going for my 8 hooks before I start killing people and if they brought cake I might let them go… but even then I might end up at higher MMR even though I'm not getting kills?
I get it, I have enough hour that I shouldn't be part of the newb-welcoming squad, a role I was happy to play, but now I might just suffer no matter what I do?
If someone wants to keep their MMR lower that it should be it used to be killers could get 8 hooks and giver the survivors a sporting round… but what do they do now? Play a li bit and AFK?
Disclaimer: Not encouraging anything. Just want to know how the system works.
Comments
Escapes and kills are still the main determining factor, but a lot of the stuff that effects badges (the ones to pip) also play a factor. Basically that means as killer, things like getting more hooks rewards you more MMR / you lose less (from my understanding), and for survivor things like altruism and gens completed it's the same.
If you're 8 hooking then getting a 4k, you're probably getting maximum MMR increase. The flaw with the system is that slugging and getting a 4k with zero hooks effectively keeps your MMR low which is people's concern. If you want to be able to keep your MMR low to be able to 8 hook, I don't think that's what you should be aiming for. You should be in your own lobbies, and if you want to still be able to 8 hook or similar before killing like I try to do, I usually just end up running stronger perks. Other than that, if you want to be chill you can give hatch. But please don't intentionally lower your MMR.
It will be interesting to see what MMR brackets Onryo's fall into if they just go only for condemned kills.
Despite Onryo being weak, I already hate Onryo's spam TV condemned playstyle. I can't imagine how awful it would be if those Onryo players almost exclusively went against babies
I simply don't understand why they never explain MMR in more detail.
Now would be the perfect opportunity to do so.
I get it that they won't show a number or something to prevent bullying each others ranks (high MMR = no lifer/unemployed, low MMR = noob, no skill). They also do not need to explain what algorithms or whatever they use.
But some examples would help with understanding the actual system.
Just simple things like
That would help a lot of people to get the basic idea.
This right here is probably why they don't go into detail about it. You're supposed to play normal and land in the appropriate lobbies. You're not supposed to alter your actions to manulipulate the system and end up in a lower bracket than your ability belongs in.
The point is: people who want to manipulate their MMR will find a way to MMR within the constraints they are given.
If people think they can limit their MMR by constraining their kills then we get games where people get 8 hooks and zero kills (providing the survivors unhook) and those are rather sporting games.
If people think they can limit their MMR by limiting their time in chase, hooks and kills well where does that leave us? Killers that limit their time in chase, hooks and kills? What kind of killer does that resemble now?
I double checked this and no, because of the way the system calculates the MMR (don't forget it's like a 1v1v1v1 etc) then that is not going to be the way you keep your mmr low.
Yeah hooking a lot gives mmr so want to avoid that now
but you will still get MMR…
Slugging is not going to be a way to avoid getting MMR I'm pleased to say.
There is a rumor that you wont gain mmr if you slug without hooks, is that true?
that is categorically, not true
I still have and will always play for 12 hooks. Regardless of efficiency it's how I enjoy the game.
Peanits once said that how much MMR you can gain is a thing. Would it be accurate to assume that kills via slugging may not net someone as much gain as if they 12 hooked everyone instead?
This goes without doubt, yes.
Its absolutely irresponsible to have literally no transparancy at all on MMR while it is the determining factor for matchmaking and therefor completely responsible for how good our games will be. I dont want to get again into low-MMR-hell just because there is no way I can know what i have to do to avoid loosing MMR as long as my teammates are completely useless due to MMR reset.
Ive now played several games with people under 100h of playtime that cant loop a killer long enough so that the team has even a chance at escapes.
Its my guess, but as survivor, if you escape through gates at very least your mmr wont decrease, however in order to increase it you need to well in all categories as well to gain mmr (max out as many as you can, like obvious, do gens, do chases, and save survivors from hooks heal them etc)
I do base the guess on previous statements, where they say the new system mix of old emblem and kill/ escape.
No mmr loss:
-Escaped through gate
-Died but maxed out the categories (dont know the exact numbers what you need to accomplish)
Gain mmr:
-Escaped and did well on categories
Decrease mmr:
-Died and did very few categories
-Hatch escape(neither escape nor death), with little categories points
For killer, this one hard to get, but ultimately we got a confirmation that a kill still get you mmr points even if you do poorly at points. Its just might be slower climb. Maybe you also less likely to lose mmr even if you didnt kill anyone but maxed out the points in categories.
So I really would like the system to be laid out, but:
Just simple things like"If you play killer and get 1 kill, but 9 hooks → MMR stays the same (you would have needed 2 kills for a MMR increase)""If you play survivor and get 3 out of 4 iridiscent emblems but die in the end → MMR increase".That would help a lot of people to get the basic idea.It's not like that as at the end of the match each individual survivor is compared to the killer (and then their current MMRs are compared to each other). So even if you do a bunch of activities that gain points, whether that results in a net gain or not isn't known until compared to the other side.
If people think they can limit their MMR by limiting their time in chase, hooks and kills well where does that leave us? Killers that limit their time in chase, hooks and kills? What kind of killer does that resemble now?Hypothetically, it requires the killer to not even play the match if enough factors are taken into account. Given how boring that would be, and how frequently the player would have to engage in it, its unlikely that many players would actually do it. While the current 8 hook, then let them go, would be an easy way to get around (though not one I find to be particularly worrisome).
Before it was based on kills but now it's based on …what?For those that want to raise their MMR, it's a great change. No matter what you do if you're trying your MMR will go up …or what?I just want to understand.Survivors are graded on an individual basis. Other actions in the game, which generally (generally being an important word here) correspond to the emblem system, award points during the match. Escapes and deaths are still the preeminent point getter. Those points are compared with the other side at the end of the trial and the side with more points gains MMR (with killer vs survivor being 4 comparisons). How much you gain/lose is
1: I suspect determined by the level of difference (I'm not sure if they said this precisely)
2: Modifies by comparing starting MMRs
Beyond that, there are no plans to divulge what the actual specifics/number break downs are (based on another thread).
It's a secret recipe that BHVR will only half-ass explain in some stream somewhere one time.
Exactly why the system doesn't focus on kills and escapes on its own anymore, your own progress in the match is counted heavily - so your own chases etc.
Then just give us information on what exactly influences the MMR. Telling us nothing clear doesnt help anyone. For gods sake stop being picky on MMR and just show us how it works. We havent seen any reasonable argument so far to hide it and make games worse for everyone.
Honestly I still think that for survivors it should count the amount of escapes rather than just if you escaped. I'm not sure but the new system still sounds like if you run the killer for 5 gens then die and the rest of your team gets out you might still lose MMR because all you did was chase and nothing else and you didn't escape. Hopefully however the MMR is calculated it accounts for that but I have no idea
I feel like if players know how it works then it'd be easier for you to get feedback on what its flaws are too
I've said it on a couple of things, but I feel that BHVR frequently tries to reinvent the wheel instead of taking the obvious choice - in this case just factoring in the other survivors.
BHVR really, really doesn't want to officially say survivors are a team. Sure, to have success they have to play as a team, most survivors play it as a team game, they allow SWFs which explicitly act as a team, and their new MMR system rewards actions that ultimately benefit the whole group, but they want keep the idea that each survivor is 'independent'.
All of that would be more easily accomplished and understood by just factoring survivors in as a group without the complexity. They could even maintain 50% is determined solely by the individual results, 50% by the others if they still want it to be individual focused.
Hopefully however the MMR is calculated it accounts for that but I have no ideaAs a hypothetical, it would also depend on what the killer does, but I really doubt the ability of the computer to determine skill on that precise of a level.
If you only did chase(nothing else) and didnt escape , its quite probable you still lose mmr. But if you managed to score in altruism or and in gens as well, then probably keep mmr.
If chase would be enough then nobody would bother with gens its such a boredom and you get max points too fast yet nobody else want to do it, you are forced with 0 rewards , now imagine if escaping would be meaningless.
And team escape is outside of your control like get babies or good ones its already certain what will happen likely
Work on a gen and do well in your chases. Your MMR will go up. Help your team to the best that you can.
It should do the opposite honestly. You should gain more MMR points because of certain playstyles. Same with hard tunneling. I've done my fair share of full team slugging when everyone was injured, out of position, and easy to nab. This should raise my MMR even more because I'm not approaching the game casually in these cases. Sweaty tactics should make you sky rocket.
But I do fear it's the opposite if they're going on your ability to spread hooks. If that's the case, the wincon should also be changed to hook amounts.
Mandy did at least state that slugging will increase your MMR. There were “rumors” that it would actually decrease it and according to Mandy this isn’t true at all. So that’s good to hear.
For all the infectious fright, Distressing Clourphobia blights, ghouls, or any killer that does this. Have at it.
They can skyrocket your mmr all they want but the soft cap is so low it won't matter. The skill difference between actual cap and soft is massive so matches will just be mixed. It practically only exists to keep just freshed installed players out of the pool and if queue times are bad enough well they get in anyways.
How do you know this?
Is this speculation or has BHVR released official ranges on this data?
Unless they did massive changes to soft/hard cap since last time people have datamined it's accurate. If you played during the initial rollout of mmr when they didn't have soft cap you could wait 30+ mins if you won too much. I believe dowsey waited multiple hours in queue to even get one match in while winstreaking on twins.
It's either force people including their content creators to wait excessive queue times for a 'fair' match or sacrifice match quality for people to actually get games
It makes at least some difference, even if brackets are big and matching is loose. I was sweating for my life for months. I struggled in many of my matches. Killer was a constant fight against good players and survivor was mostly hatch games. My killer matches since the reset have been such steamrolls I'm actually surprised when more than 1 or 2 gens get done, and I've had more back to back 4 outs than I can ever recall with survivor. These aren't the people I was put with before.
I didn't really think there was much matchmaking until this reset, but this free for all is apples and oranges to what I'd been experiencing before.
Yeah I think currently that's how it works, and often why people who use certain playstyles quickly end up against opponents who can handle them better. Just curious as to whether the new changes now mean the opposite
I keep saying this, and have seen other people say this as well: BHVR is refusing to state whether this game is casual or competitive and its kind of taking away from everyones experience because of this. if there's an MMR overhaul focused on making the lobbies more evenly matched (So far in my games this has not been the case) At this point just make ranks mean something AND actually identify what the win condition is as opposed to vaguely leaving it up to player interpretation. Just add a by default ranked system, since so many people are afraid of splitting the queue. I would even just add Rank + BP Rank so the ash 4 to Iri 1 still remains as an identifier for how active someone has been this month and the overall rank is a signifier of their MMR range.
The ONLY reason I can think of that they wouldn't do this is because MMR is actually all over the place still and they know it is, in part because they are backfilling survivors from anywhere and any skill level (which I think a lot of people suspect they have always done to diminish queue time). I am positive in my games its not consistent, anyway. and "We don't want people being called out for their MMR" is just a fact of life in literally any PvP game that features real MMR, as always, just disable the chat if you don't want people being rude in it, they can even hide the Ranks of players until after the match to help with lobby dodgers (even though there's always a workaround to that).
My concern with the old system was abandons, and Peanits was gone by that time so we never really got any info. I assume bots are empty shells, so if the MMR wasn't calculated until the end, based on outcome, did you gain no MMR by slugging full teams. And since these matches just get deleted on survivor stats, did they keep theirs? At least this new way is calculating throughout the match (I guess?) so it stands a chance to be better.
I don't know about others, but after a few days and doing the thing I always do (solo q) the matches somehow feel "better".
According to the profiles of other players the amount of hours played is not all over the place for me anymore. It is - very roughly - a bit more homogenous or even. The only exceptions were a 32 hour survivor and a 78 hour killer within the first 3 games.
Apart from that I get put into lobbies with far more hours than I used to be and those hours match mine "better" I guess?
And tbh it does make the matches more fun. Although I must admit my escape rate is a tiny bit high to me at the moment. But I guess that will stretch out within the next one or two weeks when the MMR has set down a bit and set people where they belong in this new system.