Is judgement weak?
Have to admit i haven't watched much ptb footage of the judgement. But after 4-5 matches against judgement today they seem super weak to me. Every game saw gens finished, and only 1 was a 3k (should've been a 2k but an ill advised endgame rescue attempt went very pearshaped) the others were all 0 or 1ks.
The beam is mad easy to dodge, and i rarely juice time in chase they way i have been against judgement. I've seen a couple of players drop quickly in chase. But usually chases last forever.
Maybe I've just been up against players who've only just picked up judgement and down the line once ppl are good with it then they'll become more of a threat. But I just fail to see how that beam can be effective with how hard it's telegraphed.
Revised opnion: after playing a few more games against judgement and having brought it as well to play a few games as them. I'm quite liking them. They're extremely fiddly to use but can work extremely well. I still think their power is a little too easy to dodge, but I've hit some absolutely wild flickshots, and there's a lot ways to show skill expression. I've found that setting up a shot behind you then whipping round and casting is a great way to hit people at close range. And a lot of her addons seem to affect how their power works so you can use it in unique ways. It's honestly nice to see a unique killer who really plays in a different way and it'll be interesting to see how players develop with her. She is very all or nothing though. Either they snowball hard when they gets multiple hits at once, or get absolutely juiced in chase if the player struggles to get hits in chase against aware survivors.
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It's day 1. My second match was over in 3 minutes, and another just took 15 mins and we only got 2 gens done. YMMV.
I mean most people are playing her for the first time today and she's the hardest killer in the game to play. She's quite strong but it takes a little while to get there.
I've played her a few games, and I'm starting to think she might be the strongest killer in the game.
My opinion may change as MMR adjusts and survivors learn counterplay, but right now I feel like I have constant map-wide pressure running Thrill, Ruin, Retribution, and Surveillance with aura reading add-ons.
I've had multiple games where I have 3 slugged in the first minute.
Unlike the Ghoul and Dracula and Jason, The Judgement is actually pretty too hard to use. So she has a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling. We'll probably be seeing more bad Judgement players since she just released. But once you go against a good Judgement you'll know how oppressive this killer can be. I truly think this is the first hard to use killer BHVR has released since Blight.
She is just hard to use I would argue, but to me she seems like a solid A tier killer. No mobility but great chase potential and some solid range. Give it time and you'll get some good Judgements as well that will really challenge you.
I'm hitting 1 out 12 beams.
I played survivor POV to figure this out.
Not only do you as survivor see the beam, hear the noise, you actually see the Judgement UI elements as the killer is aiming for you in real-time.
That is tad too much.
All this is not being helped by the fact you can dodge the power by going two steps to the left or right.
You can mind game her like nurse by charging at her because during her power because she is locked out of her M1 and has a mandatory non lethal zone that drifts away from her.
Playing shack with her is super frustrating. The only thing that works for me is that flick tech and I'm super bad at that. Even if you get good at that, you still are shooting blind.
She is super susceptible to survivor haste buffs, window loops destroy her. I was dropping one chase after another and was like "HUH?!"
Her powered up state has zero impact for me. I can't even tell what it does.
Most of her add-ons have massive drawbacks, You see auras 4 seconds everybody sees your aura 4 seconds +2 seconds every time they see auras, some add-ons don't do what they should / are bugged.
The whole aiming UI is wonky and buggy and sometimes leaves the aiming circle on the ground, after the power has ended, permanently.
She's 4 meters tall and light up as a christmas tree so tracking her even from really far away is super easy. She might even be the easiest killer to track in the game currently. All attempts at stealth builds are doomed from the start, except maybe for indoor maps.
She plays like Huntress, if she were 5 X times more gated, needed 10 X times more effort and 15 X times more skill to play.
And then you get what? Huntress with Pyramid cage?
I cannot see that balancing out at any rate.
I thought we were past designs like this since Trickster.
I doubt she'll be stronger than Nurse. Seems like a good A tier killer to me. But totem builds might become a bit of a problem with her? I don't know. Maybe she shouldn't get reduced cooldown in her zealous mode.
After playing Judgement for the most of the day, imo judgement can be a good to even great killer. The beam is cool and i am a really big fan of the Iri Mirror addon as its really satisifiying to get use out of. But the time it takes to learn them along with the skill ceiling being as big as a skyscraper, will push most people away and we will most likely barely see them in game unless its a baby killer or a p100 who can hit every shot even if they seem impossible. The casual players will never get invested with this killer and since i got all the achievements today, i'll probably only play them once in a blue moon.
This killer has an annoying power to use; constantly spinning around and looking behind and to the sides is awful. On top of that, it’s super inconsistent and difficult—and even though it’s strong, in a month this killer will be keeping The Twins company at the bottom of the playable roster.
This isn't the kind of game where someone wants to spend hours trying to figure out how a character works; it’s simply better to play as a simpler one. I’m not even going to buy it. It should have been an accessible Killer since it was created by the community, but they did the exact opposite—it shouldn't have been this complicated. It’s a disappointment.
It may not be a lot, but there absolutely are people who will main Judgement and destroy everyone. It's unfortunate that you don't jive with it, but I'm glad they took an actual risk with this killer's design. But at this point there are so many killers to choose from that not everyone needs to love every killer. I hope they can keep coming up with creative power designs, even if it's a bit awkward.
She's not awful, until she is.
In skilled hands she's oppressive. The problem is that she's so easy to counter it's laughable. A good, coordinated team is impossible to handle.
Let me re-iterate that, I didn't say hard to handle, I said impossible. Her tells from the beam visibility to the beam interaction points themselves mean that a group coordinated and paying attention are not going to be hit by her lasers at mid to long range. Given her effective inability to handle looping and her 4.4 status, this means she becomes incapable of competing against high end players or SWF's.
Outside of that she's pretty damn decent. She's effectively nothing but a SoloQ slayer. Which… is really weird that they would release, but here we are.
Nope, it's easy to tell she's actually very strong it's just she's got a high skill ceiling unlike pay to win killers like Ghoul or Jason. People are gonna say that she's weak but it's really just she's hard to play and you need to be good at hey gameplay to win.
i died to judgement due to being tunneled out or a ttv letting me get 2 staged but she gets a 1 or 0k when i face her in general since her beam is so telegraphed
We tried to be very clear around the PTB time that this Killer is going to take some learning - its not a Killer that you're just going to pick up and play well instantly, it is very high skilled, probably one of the highest (if not the highest) in the game so far.
I know that's not for everyone, not everyone wants to put the time into learning how to play a killer - or has the time even with how busy life can get (yes that's me!), but we fully expect those who are putting the time in and can pick up this killer to be absolutely beasts with it. We also need to see how survivors are able to adapt to the power, its part of why we were looking at the vignette and what would be required there. Its going to take some time before things start to become apparent here.
My biggest fear is that the classic " insert new killer IS OP" posts after a new killer release will cause her to get nerfed, when in reality she rewards high skill gameplay with her high skill ceiling.
Considering how hard you have to fight against her power as the killer to get it to do anything, yeah, she's very weak.
She's pretty boring to play against, but I think most killers since 2019 have been pretty awful. She's alright to play as, though.
we just had Jason do we really need another easy simple killer? I yearn for a challenge. evidently killers do not as I barely encountered any Judgments. whrres the community passion and drive to strive to improve and become the world's best?
yeah this killer is weak the beam is to easy for survivors to read and to easy to dodge if the devs want to make the beam a hard ability to use then it needs to be hard for survivors to counter it if they want it easier for survivors to read and dodge then they need to make it easier to use simple as
the question is how the power works and not the dificult, could be hard, but, looking away and turning its awful and annoying
That's a person by person thing though. Investing hours isn't exactly a huge ask in a community where you regularly see people with 5k+ hours. Sure, there's plenty of options if you don't want a challenge. If you want simple, you can play Wraith. If you want easy, you can play Ghoul. And some people want something new and with a satisfying learning ladder to climb, so here's Judgment. Not everyone is compelled towards with the path of least resistance.
I wouldn't say weak, but way too difficult for the average person to want to play. Heck I haven't even played against a Judgement yet today and I've played about 15 matches. That never happens during a killers release week
I played against one who could do the close range shots really well and they was terrifying and had great long range pressure.
I feel boons really mess her up though, shadow step circle of healing lets you reset from her long range pressure really easily, I've been using those 2 with steadfast and Flow state for faster boons and they have a hard time unless I'm focused out.
i wouldnt say so. theres definitely a learning curve and shadow step hits a lot of builds hard but i think shes pretty good atm. maybe giving a little more flick duration during zealous would be lovely but asides from letting her shoot down so as to go beneath a floor theres not much id change atm.
Gotta agree with Mandy here. I'm pulling consistent 3k's and 4k's when I don't hit SWF's. SWF's are impossible to face if they pay attention, but meh who cares. Still slaughters the bulk well enough at the moment.
Up until the PTB phase, I thought he was a very difficult killer to master, but a rewarding and challenging one.
However, I gave up on him when the developers began considering implementing warning prompts that even survivors who weren’t paying close attention to the game screen could avoid. That’s because no matter how much I practiced, my efforts might end up being for nothing.
Unfortunately, I apparently have been learning slingshots wrong for the past three hours where I have been doing them in reverse where you send it towards the survivor then flick behind you where you can't see them anymore.. BUT it has worked in my favor as NOBODY EXPECTS THE UNEXPECTED!!!
I have asked multiple players about this and it did indeed confuse them when they are used to the more optimal version of the slingshot and therefore its harder to dodge.. Especially since you have to look away from the killer to dodge so you won't know when to dodge, as not even I know when I am going to send out my power.
Also little tip for multifloor maps just send your power to the edge of a stairwell and it will instantly drop down to the lower floor, you can continue to flick from there. Again most people don't expect something from directly above them to suddenly appear on the same floor as them.
Wait, you're not meant to slingshot like that? What the hell have I been doing then lol?
Also usually that's fine to do, but when you load into forgotten ruins it's just sort of ggs guess I'll die, because there's no real way down and those portals make being 110 a nightmare unless you get the sickest 2tap of your life
I send the beam towards the survivor first then look away and blindly guess where they are without looking at them, the other is where you send it behind you then look at the survivor and shoot it while staring at them. MB for it being a bit hard too read previously
No I do it that way too LMAO I send it behind them and rotate 180 to flick back towards them/flick 90 to send it hurtling round a loop to get them. Genuinely the most fun I've had since release Sadako, maybe First coming close. Just give us more Zealous curve window so I can get better at the 180 flicks lol
Couple issues you should note as they aren’t skill related:
yes you made a very high skilled killer but you made it one of the easiest to counter so this will put off people playing the killer as what is the point of learning a high skill killer when it so easy for survivors to counter
I'm going to eat my words like I did with Henry but this killers insane. Maybe I'm blinded by my hate towards Lara Croft and her hidden 4th teachable Lithe but now that survivors have to out mind game me instead of running I feel that Judgment Day has arrived.
Henry has T-Rex arms holding him back but Judgment does not. I can feel out every survivor in a lobby and feel out a weak link with ease compared to other killers. Even Nurse can't just leave chase willy nilly to be like "maybe I should say hi to Dwight in the next province over"
I won't argue, though. I wish my boy Pinhead was seen as weak and not strong so he'd get a buff, but with Judgment I'm happy if you all see her as weak because I'm content where she's at.
Is Henry not insane? I feel like he's most definitely a top 10 killer (same with Judgement imo)
in a vacuum yeah, Henry is insane. Him and Unknown are the "Potential Killers" who theoretically can wipe teams with ease. Seeing Hens hit 150 wins and quitting because he got bored was something to see. Not that anything's changed with Henry really, but survivors got used to it.
Maybe survivors will get used to Judgment too, and then it's theoretical strength may not be worth as much. People realized you can just pre run Henry and slow him down but Judgment doesn't have that weakness.
People realize that generators are the obvious beam targets and side step but we will see how Judgment fares against people who dodge. At the very least, Judgment only suffers from imposter syndrome from missing hits, which Henry also has, but I believe what holds Henry's play rate down is that his counter play bores killers so they don't play him. Dodging Judgment isn't boring thats just failing to land the power.
I finally had a chance to play a few matches against Judgment and I found the ranged attack pretty easy to mind game/dodge. Unfortunately I was also matched with teammates who couldn’t manage to dodge a visible and audible beam of light from halfway across the map. Killer seems fine if you have semi-competent teammates, which seem few and far between in solo queue anymore.