The abandon feature
Why does the abandon feature not work when people are slugging for the 4k? Its extremely boring to be bled out while the killer searches for your teammate whos across the map in a locker.
Im also somebody who plays both sides & dont see the issue on either side if that happens. Especially when the killer fails at finding the person that they then pick you up right before you bleed out to make it even longer to waste time.
Also i dont even mind being slugged during the match id rather have the abandon feature when theres only one teammate left rather than the beginning of the match.
Comments
Even without perks survivor have a potential chance to wiggle of into hatch, as one would say "killer could potentially catch survivor at gates so he shouldnt get abandon in endgame"
The abandon feature isnt there because your bored or because your team mate keeps charging a slug in front of the killer all while the other slugs refuse to crawl away from each other making it harder for a killer to patrol and cover them.
hope this helps
the abandon sysyem is to stop people from holding the game hostage, aswell i have had killers lsugg for the 4k and i was able to get the last gen done pick up the last person and 2man escape
U obviously didnt understand my point. I dgaf ab slugging. Idgaf ab the abandon feature. Im saying i dont get why we have it yet it doesnt acrivate if its only 2 ppl. Never once have i seen the option to abandon when ppl slug for the 4k. Yet thats the most boring part. Yet if i get slugged for a tiny bit when there whole teams alive i get asked if i want to abandon instantly. Like if the match is over then its over. Idc ab giving them the win. I dont want to sit there n wait to bleed out. I want to go next match
most the time the killers go look for you. If they slug for the 4k its extremely boring. All bc theyre scared of somebody getting hatch. A 3k is still a win. We shouldnt have to sit there n wait to bleed out when the match is over. Its actually insane the fact ppl even down voted the msg to begin. Swear killer mains are soft af. We dont owe nbdy a 4k. And having to loop around n pick smbdy up when theres multiple gens left is impossible to counter. Its a waste of time the games a bp simulator
Its not even end game tho thats the thing. There could be just 2 ppl and 4 gens left. I dont think its cool theres no way to counter it. If were in solo q and our teammate isnt picking us up we shouldnt have to sit there and bleed out nor should we be forced to give them the 4k either. They shouldnt be scared of smbdy escaping thru hatch they have entitlement issues lmao. We dont get the option to abandon for some reason if its legit just 2 survivors. When we should get the option. Yet if they slugged us when the other teammates are alive too wed get the option. Thats what i dont understand
The 1v2 slugging for the 4k scenario really should be addressed. If the killer puts that survivor on a hook they have the option to make no attempt on 2 skill checks and they're sacrificed. If they get left slugged and don't get an abandon option they should have an option to speed up the the bleed out with a "hold the wound open" interaction or the slug should just bleed faster automatically in that scenario. Instead of it taking 4 minutes get it down to 90 seconds at most.
But I also think killers should have the option to abandon 60 seconds after Endgame starts. Far too often there's one survivor who just refuses to leave for no other reason but to spite the killer. I think most of those survivors would leave of their own accord if they knew the killer can just abandon without having to escort them out and see them teabag. It would be better for everyone.
Killers have repeatedly been told that they aren't allowed to abandon in the end game (after gates have opened) and have repeatedly been made to force survivors out of the game by the gates for no reason as some sort of bm ritual. This forum perpetuates that message repeatedly.
This is the killer version of having to wait when someones slugging for the 4k. Both of them nothing can be changed as they are right by the exit gates waiting to leave as soon as you appear or you are on the ground with no way up and you just have to wait. Both of them are unfun (even if you still have the small chance to get a kill/hatch if a survivor monumentally ######### up waiting at the gate and you have noed or something) and one of them has been repeatedly stamped on, so this is being given the same birth by the killers.
But no, its not entitlement to slug for the 4k. The entitlement is saying you deserve the hatch showdown because theres 1 person downed on the ground. The killer doesn't have to give you hatch/the hatch showdown, the killer is allowed to slug p3 to try get a 4k, because their job is to kill everyone. And I do think that the "if other teammates were alive we'd get the option" your talking about is the abandon feature when a gen hasn't been popped in 5 mins. You can't just abandon when your on the ground 1st hook with 3 other survivors are alive. And the 5 min rule applies in the end game and in this slugging situation.
Personally, I think the abandon feature should only be used when your held hostage for over a minute. So I'd be fine with "survivor X has been slugged for a minute, they can now abandon rather than wait for the bleed out as a killer wants the 4k". I also want a feature to abandon for killers after the gates have been opened. In the matches they can still get things, they will willingly stay most the time as an extra kill is and extra kill. But give them the option to dip rather than sit there waiting for the teabaggs.
Believe it or not, not everything has to be a condition to just legal dc. I feel like they've been too loose with it already but not my choice.
Slugging for the 4k is the definition of entitlement. You are going out of your way to deny an intended endgame mechanic and forcing one player to have to wait with nothing to do all because you feel entitled to a 4k win instead of the 3k win you already have. Have I gotten them up and managed a two out before, yes but we are talking like twice in thousand of game. The survivors that wait in the exit gate to make you watch them leave are being equally idiotic, both are a complete waste of everyone's time.
100% agree with this. I don’t understand why this gets downvoted, because it would help reduce perceived toxicity on both sides. The only reason people don’t like this idea is because they want to keep their ability to BM the other side. People wonder why toxicity is such a big problem in this game - well, that right there is a reason why. Let both sides move on to next match when it’s clear the opponent is intentionally wasting their time.
I'll make you a deal. I'd agree to giving survivors an Abandon option if they are in the dying state for more than 60 seconds while 1 other survivor remains alive and on their feet, if killers get to Abandon the moment the EGC begins and no survivor is hooked or dying.
You can even replace the killer with a generic bare-bones chase + M1 bot. It's the end of the match, who's gonna care? The bully squads that want to force someone to watch them leave? Who gives a **** what they think anyway?
I support this idea
Totally okay with this.
Facing a bully squad is just as bad as facing a tunneling/slugging killer. Neither should exist, and it's insane that BHVR actually put in a decent number of perks to create that issue in the first place.
There's a big difference between strategic flashlight and sabo use and 3 people constantly running around a killer that can't even hook them like a bunch of mosquitos.
Personally I am fine with this too.
But a lot of survivor mains are resistant to the idea of killers being able to just open the gate and abandon.
A decent compromise might be 60 seconds in both scenarios. Slugged for 60 seconds in the 2v1 a survivor could abandon or 60 seconds after EGC starts killer could abandon.
Not ideal but easy to implement reduced misery for both sides.
You aren't owed the ability to enter the endgame. Thats like saying "I'm owed the ability to open the gates". Your not. You aren't owed the ability to enter the hatch stand off, thats entitlement. The hatch was added so the last survivor alive had a way out, you are not the last survivor alive if the other guys still there.
You aren't owed a 4k, the one making the decision in the moment is the killer. Wild entitlement to arbitrarily decide an intended game mechanic doesn't apply to you. I'm not asking you to not win, just to let the match end.
I'm not the claiming entitlement on one side. Im saying if your definition argues that a killer deciding to slug to allow them to not reach the end game is entitlement, then any action the killer takes to prevent you reaching endgame is also entitlement since thats an intended game mechanic that apparently doesnt apply to them. Can you not see the fallaciousness of your own argument here.
Just because a mechanic is in the game doesn't mean you have carte blanche to use it, for example the end game gates. You have to power the gens to get the access to the gate. This doesn't mean your owed the ability to open the gates just because theres a scenario that you can.
The scenario where a killer slugs for the 4k is just as entitled by your definition here as defending generators or bringing slowdown perks to try and stop you getting to the end game, its just entirely unreasonable.
Are you seriously trying to conflate playing the match out with going out of your way to deny hatch? And people wonder where the toxicity in the game comes from. You deserve all of the exit gate tbags you get.
LMAO, has no argument so resorts to being petty.
Your argument was "X is in the game, so Team A deserve to use it. Denying team A the ability to use X is entitlement"
I then mapped that onto " powering the exit gates is in the game, by your logic they deserve to use the gates every game. Any attempt to deny that is entitlement".
If you want to flesh out your argument more we can have an actual back and fourth. Or have you realised how much of a dumbass a stance like that makes you look. You can change your stance, or flesh out your position and provide an alternative reasoning as to "its in the game" as to why survivors are automatically more entitled to hatch than the killer doing their job. Ill wait.
No man, I just don't see any point in having this conversation again with another person that is clearly lacking empathy and respect for their opponents. If you can't understand what an awful gaming experience it is to be forced to sit on the ground so the killer can get their 4k win because the 3k win they have already secured isn't enough for them (entitled) then what's the point? Go look up the other thread we had on slugging for the 4k recently.
"No man, I just don't see any point in having this conversation again with another person that is clearly lacking empathy and respect for their opponents. "- says the guy who said I deserve toxicity because I dared to see your argument to the logical conclusion. Just because you debate like a 10th grader doesnt mean I don't have respect or empathy for survivors who get tunneled. In fact I've made multiple posts as of late surrounding how anti-tunnel and camp should be implemented in an attempt to casualise the game, but also that will mean efficiency on the survivor side needs to be looked at.
"if you can't understand what an awful gaming experience it is to be forced to sit on the ground so the killer can get their 4k win because the 3k win they have already secured isn't enough for them (entitled) then what's the point? Go look up the other thread we had on slugging for the 4k recently."- Its is equally entitled to expect the killer to give you the hatch showdown as it is for the killer to expect the 4k. These are equivalently entitled. And in fact, I added that the survivors should be able to abandon so they don't have to sit there. But you shouldn't be given carte blanche to a game mechanic just because its there. Thats not how games work. You don't get every gun at the start in tlou, you aren't owed extra money in csgo to purchase whatever weapons you want, you aren't owed an automatic farm bot in league to farm for you, these mechanics are all there, but they can also be denied.
Are you ok? No one mentioned tunneling, we are talking about slugging for the 4k. I don't think tbagging in exit is toxic either, just a waste of everyone's time, thus the comparison to slugging for the 4k. There is nothing entitled about wanting a match to play out in the intended way and that includes hatch whether you like it or not, trying to circumvent that is by definition entitled. It cannot be the survivor being entitled because it is not their choice, the killer has decided that they deserve the 4k. As you said, that's not how games work.
Slugging for the 4k isn't a waste of everyones time though, by definition its the killer playing efficiently.
" There is nothing entitled about wanting a match to play out in the intended way and that includes hatch whether you like it or not, trying to circumvent that is by definition entitled."- What is the intended way? If it was intended for the final survivor to always get the hatch why not spawn it under them as soon as the last person goes down? Its not. Its not intended for every game to have a hatch stand off either, otherwise It'd be hard coded into the game in a way to allow them to have it spawn under them before the last guy dies. The hatch is meant as an alternate escape wincon, its not guaranteed and expecting every game to be allowed it is also entitled.
" It cannot be the survivor being entitled because it is not their choice, the killer has decided that they deserve the 4k. As you said, that's not how games work."- it absolutely can though. Saying you deserve the hatch standoff is entitlement. The killer isnt forced to give it to you, so acting like they have to is entitlement by definition.
Entitled: "Informally—and often used disapprovingly—it describes someone who behaves as though they deserve special privileges or things without having to work for them. [1, 2]"- The killer still has to work for the 4k. They still need to down you. They still need to catch you before the other person bleeds out (which if you stealth and do side objectives its incredibly hard for killers to find you).
In contrast, you don't need to work at all to get the hatch standoff, in fact you could do little to nothing all game and still enter a hatch standoff. You are being arguably more entitled by expecting to get hatch than someone slugging so they have the opportunity to deny hatch.
In what universe is searching the map for 4+ minutes to find the last survivor efficient? You could be in another match by that point. Not even remotely efficient, if you already know where the last survivor is then sure go for it but that isn't usually what happens.
The intended way is clearly a hatch showdown in the matches the killer won, trying to claim otherwise is ignoring hatches existence as the failsafe for ending the match that it is. No one is asking for an escape, we are asking that hatch showdown occur as clearly intended.
When the killer slugs for the 4k the 4k becomes guaranteed 99 times out of 100, that's not working for it in any sense, hatch showdown is you actually doing something. Again no one is asking to be given hatch, just for it to be allowed to spawn in as intended so there is a real chance. You are just choosing to interpret things in a way that is favorable to you.
Because when there's two survivors left its highly likely the killer is going to down one of them. How long should it be before the down survivor can abandon?
By current rules, if there's only one non-bot survivor they get the ability to abandon too. Does the match for the survivor end when there's only two left now? Guess the killer just needs to clean up the mess or abandon as well.
Or killers can start slugging for the 4k at three survivors and avoid getting bots. Then we can start this conversation all over again.
"In what universe is searching the map for 4+ minutes to find the last survivor efficient? You could be in another match by that point. Not even remotely efficient, if you already know where the last survivor is then sure go for it but that isn't usually what happens."- efficient in the sense the killers job is to kill all of you. Slugging for the 4k stops 1 of you possibly escaping, so its playing efficiently in the sense of them doing their role.
"The intended way is clearly a hatch showdown in the matches the killer won, trying to claim otherwise is ignoring hatches existence as the failsafe for ending the match that it is. No one is asking for an escape, we are asking that hatch showdown occur as clearly intended."- The intended way is actually for you to come back and escape via gates. Its not a failsafe to get you out, otherwise It'd spawn at your feet after a set amount of time. Your stretching its role to justify your entitlement.
"When the killer slugs for the 4k the 4k becomes guaranteed 99 times out of 100, that's not working for it in any sense, hatch showdown is you actually doing something. Again no one is asking to be given hatch, just for it to be allowed to spawn in as intended so there is a real chance. You are just choosing to interpret things in a way that is favorable to you."- "when the killer slugs for the 4k the 4k becomes guaranteed 99 out of 100 times" thats because they don't hide and do a side objective every so often (like touch a gen for a few seconds, do a totem or open a chest) and stay away. and again hatch spawns when everyone's dead in some games, is that it "working as intended". No, I'm stating how your argument is fallacious and YOUR interpreting things in a favourable way.
My interpretation is: Hatch is a last chance given to survivors in a losing game. There is ample ways for a survivor to hide from a killer whilst they're looking for the 4k, and wait out the other survivors bleed timer to still have said hatch off. However, to act like the killer slugging to try and find you is entitlement in itself is entitlement because the survivor believes they are owed the hatch stand off. You have repeatedly stretched its use/meaning and used broad general terms and avoided being specific because you know the second you do It doesn't stand to scrutiny.
Your interpretation is: Game mechanics are a guaranteed right to every survivor, for a killer to attempt to deny the hatch is entitlement, even though there are multiple instances where you wouldn't be able to get a hatch standoff in which you'd be fine with (a 4 escape, all 4 survivors on hooks ect) . The survivors aren't entitled even though they are expecting the killer to not attempt to fufill their role as effectively and fully as they can (to kill ALL survivors, is the killers role. Not just 1 or 2, their role is to kill all of them) and the killer attempting to fufill their role to the full extent is entitlement.
I think you need to go look up the definition of efficient as well because that is not what that means.
Ya, this is a disingenuous argument, anyone that thinks getting the exit gates powered with two survivors left with more than a single generator left either misunderstands the game or is being intentionally delusional. I never said it was a failsafe for escaping, it is a failsafe for ending the match, otherwise what incentive does the survivor have to continue playing?
Hiding and doing totems and the like will fail and either way you are forcing two players to wait for your personal satisfaction. Its clearly just you wanting an easy 4k instead of actually having to work for it as intended. There is nothing fallacious about my argument, the killer feels entitled to a 4k and slugs to get it, wasting everyone's time in the process.
Your interpretation is meaningless when taken against the actual facts of the game. When three survivors escape through exit hatch spawns, how did all four survivors end up on hook if you slugged for the 4k? Your entire argument boils down to "I'm not entitled its you your entitled" with zero substance behind it. You just think survivors are entitled and cannot stand me using that argument against you when its the actual logical statement when talking about slugging for the 4k. Besides we have actual statements from the developers about hatch.
All of your arguments about touching other things while waiting for bleed out fall directly under the "all the killer has to do is patrol." You have already won and just want a 4k win instead of a 3k, that is entitlement, trying to turn the argument around doesn't change that and is frankly nonsense that isn't worth real engagement. For the record, I would be in favor of an endgame rework because I think the entire endgame is silly in most cases but until then asking that killers not slug for the 4k is just asking for basic respect and sportsmanship from my opponents.
"Efficient describes a person, system, or machine that achieves the desired result with a minimum of wasted time, energy, or resources."- the desired result of killer is killing all 4 people. it prefaces that you have to achieves the DESIRED RESULT with a minimum of wasted time, energy or resources. It doesn't say to change the desired result to make it easier to achieve/take less time to achieve. I'm glad I understand definitions because you sure as hell dont.
"Ya, this is a disingenuous argument, anyone that thinks getting the exit gates powered with two survivors left with more than a single generator left either misunderstands the game or is being intentionally delusional. I never said it was a failsafe for escaping, it is a failsafe for ending the match, otherwise what incentive does the survivor have to continue playing?" - The survivor has the "i queued up to play a game and so have to see it through incentive". Its why we punish leavers, because by entering a game, your agreeing to see it through unless some out of control circumstance forces you to leave (in which you take the leaver penalty and it only happens once). If you don't want to see a game through, DONT QUEUE UP. Its that simple.
"Hiding and doing totems and the like will fail and either way you are forcing two players to wait for your personal satisfaction. Its clearly just you wanting an easy 4k instead of actually having to work for it as intended. There is nothing fallacious about my argument, the killer feels entitled to a 4k and slugs to get it, wasting everyone's time in the process."- It won't fail. and its not an "easy 4k instead of having to work for it like intended", its survivors believing they are entitled to remove a killers right to a 4k they earned by stopping the survivors from completing gens and so need the out because how dare the killer get a 4k. Thats why hatch was added, because survivors en masse were like "how dare killers get a 4k, I deserve a chance to escape even if I've messed up all throughout the match, and if I don't get that Im going to hide and hold the game hostage". The hatch is a bi-product of survivors not being able to take a loss. And so killers wanting the 4k, aka a flawless win, is justified.
"Your interpretation is meaningless when taken against the actual facts of the game. When three survivors escape through exit hatch spawns, how did all four survivors end up on hook if you slugged for the 4k? Your entire argument boils down to "I'm not entitled its you your entitled" with zero substance behind it. You just think survivors are entitled and cannot stand me using that argument against you when its the actual logical statement when talking about slugging for the 4k. Besides we have actual statements from the developers about hatch." - Zero substance. Buddy, you've been saying your entitled to a hatch standoff. I've said neither side is entitled to either. Im saying just as you are entitled to your hatch stand-off, a killer is entitled to sweat for the 4k. Both are equally justifiable. Your the one who can't justify why survivors deserve the hatch stand off outside of "but why would a survivor continue to play".
"All of your arguments about touching other things while waiting for bleed out fall directly under the "all the killer has to do is patrol." You have already won and just want a 4k win instead of a 3k, that is entitlement, trying to turn the argument around doesn't change that and is frankly nonsense that isn't worth real engagement. For the record, I would be in favor of an endgame rework because I think the entire endgame is silly in most cases but until then asking that killers not slug for the 4k is just asking for basic respect and sportsmanship from my opponents."- my arguments do fall under the "all the killer has to do is patrol", your right, and all the survivor has to do is hide. Both can be true. Both can be equally valid statements. You are also being entitled by saying you want hatch standoff instead of being able to take the loss you got handed. YOU LOST THE GAME. YOUR ACTIONS UP TO THAT POINT LOST YOU THAT GAME. YOU DON'T DESERVE CHANCE AFTER CHANCE AFTER CHANCE TO WIN THE GAME AFTER LOSING. THATS NOT HOW ASYMETTRICAL HORRORS WORK.
If your desire is to win then a 3k is a win and slugging for the 4k is inefficient, you could get more wins in that time. If you define a win only as a 4k then that is on you and you maybe need to think about why you specifically need a 4k so badly.
I DID STOP. Despite all the bull claims about killer being miserable I swapped over to basically only playing killer now and you know what happened? The game became infinitely more enjoyable because I stopped having to deal with entitled players like you. Anyone that thinks the killer experience is miserable is clearly expecting to win every single one of their matches, they don't want a fair match just winning every match and many like you can't stand that even a single survivor might escape, its the true entitlement in this game. You are not worth any more of my time.
Small edit: ya I went too far saying "anyone" and the like but my sentiment about the killer role remains, it is in a perfectly fine position (not that there are no issues) unless you go in expecting to win every match, some killers could use buffs but the majority are doing perfectly fine
"If your desire is to win then a 3k is a win and slugging for the 4k is inefficient, you could get more wins in that time. If you define a win only as a 4k then that is on you and you maybe need to think about why you specifically need a 4k so badly."- Maybe you need to think about why you need a hatch stand-off so badly. Im fine with either personally, but to act like you deserve and are owed this hatch standoff is ludicrous entitlement.
"I DID STOP. Despite all the bull claims about killer being miserable I swapped over to basically only playing killer now and you know what happened? "- And there you are, pivoting again. You said if you don't have a chance at hatch why would you see a match through. I said If your not willing to see a game through, dont queue up. Thats your incentive. You queue'd up to a multiplayer game, you chose to play, so you should see it through to the end.
"Anyone that thinks the killer experience is miserable is clearly expecting to win every single one of their match, they don't want a fair match just winning every match and many like you can't stand that even a single survivor might escape, its the true entitlement in this game. You are not worth any more of my time."- LMAO, the strawman is real. Pretending its not entitled to repeatedly cry about not getting a hatch stand-off because the killer decided they wanted the 4k when you aren't owed a hatch stand off. The killer isnt hacking. They aren't entering the mainframe to stop you getting the hatch. If your not willing to play a game out, gtfo. The game is better off without people like you.
Outlasting each other for hatch while telling the killer to just let them escape via hatch is the peak of entitlement AND hypocrisy tho.
The whole waiting for hatch spawn/deny hatchppawn situation is not solely the killers fault.
Id rather say the survivors are stalling the game moreso than the killer.
So Survivors are expected to…what? Offer themselves to the Killer? a.k.a. give up? Isn't that the kind of culture we're supposed to discourage?