is the game becoming more catered towards survivors now due to some of the perks survivors have been used a lot specifically like bully squad perks or let alone heavy gen rush builds with the recently added perks (AGAIN DONT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY I JUST WANT OPINIONS!)
The new survivor perks are some of the most bold designs they've put out in a while.
That being said, these new batch of perks have taught us that Elusive is an EXTREMELY strong effect. To that end I think it's obvious that I am of the opinion that Cross Examination is ridiculously overpowered and needs a heavy nerf and/or additional activation conditions.
I can't see any immediate balancing issues with Lend a Hand, so there's that. Seems like a cool and useful effect overall.
Wide Open Throttle seems fun and useful too, though I can't help but wonder if the Haste is a little strong, so that remains to be seen.
All that being said: No, just because survivors are getting some cool perks doesn't automatically mean killers are taking a back seat. Killers got some amazing perks with Henry, and are getting some cool tools with Jason (in addition to Jason himself).
What is taking a backseat however is live balance. They added Diminishing Returns then haven't said a word about it or any buffs to affected perks, not to mention the pile of perks that were already in need of buffs before they added Diminishing Returns. They haven't added any way to see which parts of your build or power may be diminished. They haven't reworked MMR as announced. They haven't done anything regarding unique hook bonuses or slugging. I get it: timetables change, but refusing to balance live content concurrently with major releases isn't cutting it anymore. Make different PTB builds if you have to. But returning to the glacial pace of balance changes that you used to have isn't okay with an ever-growing roster.
is the game becoming more catered towards survivors now due to some of the perks survivors have been used a lot specifically like bully squad perks or let alone heavy gen rush builds with the recently added perks (AGAIN DONT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY I JUST WANT OPINIONS!)
I don't think this is a new trend, this is more so a coincidence (the fact we got 3 potentially meta perks in one survivor)
Before this one, we got Tae-Young (1 good perk, 2 eh ones), the Stranger Things survivors (4 decent perks and 2 mid ones), and Vee (2 good perks and one big flop).
Overall, the trend is we get usable, relatively good but not meta perks.
So this chapter giving 3 powerful ones is more so an exception.
Cross Examination will be the most broken thing to ever come to this game
love how these comments always get downvoted and no one is willing to actually discuss why they disagree. I suspect its because its obviously an insanely powerful perk and survs want to use it regardless of how bad its going to impact the game
if it releases into live as it is, its a guaranteed slot in my build as i play more stealthy and thats far stronger than any other stealth perk in the game. its not even a competition.
They are good, typical expected response though of everyone freaking out that survivors may get actually decent perks instead of slop.
They're very different. Instead of the design philosophy of "In this niche situation do x 1/2/3% faster" we've got stuff which geneuinely has interesting and unique effects. I'm quite excited for both Lend a Hand and Wide Open Throttle, as I'm expecting some interesting builds/unique plays. Although, going to be warring with Megs cleansing dull totems with no totem perks of their own.
I've noticed people's worries about the two above mentioned perks have eased, and while some are still concerned about the combo of Lend a Hand and Resurgence, it still requires set up, meaning survivors will delay themselves early game to get faster heals later. That's not too bad. The issue here is Resurgence, not Lend a Hand.
However, I'll argue 'til I'm blue in the face that Cross Examination needs fixing. What makes it so broken, anti-skill and anti-fun right now is how it can be used in way that is highly likely not the intended use. If people want the switch to stealth while in chase, give it a cooldown or give it a condition, such as gaining its effect after cleansing or doing x% of a gen, and losing it on taking hit. Otherwise, it needs to be specified to not work in chase as I'm quite confident the idea behind it was to allow you to follow the killer, maybe pick up a slug they leave behind without being spotted, or hide for a save.
They're very different. Instead of the design philosophy of "In this niche situation do x 1/2/3% faster" we've got stuff which geneuinely has interesting and unique effects. I'm quite excited for both Lend a Hand and Wide Open Throttle, as I'm expecting some interesting builds/unique plays. Although, going to be warring with Megs cleansing dull totems with no totem perks of their own.
I've noticed people's worries about the two above mentioned perks have eased, and while some are still concerned about the combo of Lend a Hand and Resurgence, it still requires set up, meaning survivors will delay themselves early game to get faster heals later. That's not too bad. The issue here is Resurgence, not Lend a Hand.
However, I'll argue 'til I'm blue in the face that Cross Examination needs fixing. What makes it so broken, anti-skill and anti-fun right now is how it can be used in way that is highly likely not the intended use. If people want the switch to stealth while in chase, give it a cooldown or give it a condition, such as gaining its effect after cleansing or doing x% of a gen, and losing it on taking hit. Otherwise, it needs to be specified to not work in chase as I'm quite confident the idea behind it was to allow you to follow the killer, maybe pick up a slug they leave behind without being spotted, or hide for a save.
Yeah this is what I'm talking about. Just an overreaction to survivors getting something usable. Tell me do you also argue till your blue in the face that nurse should be nerfed or how about ghoul? What about stupidly strong killer perks like noed? Just need to ask to see if you are someone who is logically consistent or not.
Yeah this is what I'm talking about. Just an overreaction to survivors getting something usable. Tell me do you also argue till your blue in the face that nurse should be nerfed or how about ghoul? What about stupidly strong killer perks like noed? Just need to ask to see if you are someone who is logically consistent or not.
Omg, is this my first time being accused of being a killer main?
It's like my very own forum baptism! However, I'll bite on the whataboutism for some fun:
Nurse needs work, yes. I'd prefer her to have a unique item/station to limit her, ideally keeping her play as is but giving survivors more agency against what is an impossible killer to counter at certain levels of play.
Ghoul is not OP, but is unfun to go against and gives massive value for autoclicker-tier gameplay. Ghoul needs a sidegrade to make him more skill intensive, and his mark shouldn't be tied to deep wound. He doesn't need slowdown on top of mobility and chase power.
I hate Noed. It's a pity perk for bad players. I never use it and want it either immediately visible so survivors know to find it, or reworked entirely.
Omg, is this my first time being accused of being a killer main?
It's like my very own forum baptism! However, I'll bite on the whataboutism for some fun:
Nurse needs work, yes. I'd prefer her to have a unique item/station to limit her, ideally keeping her play as is but giving survivors more agency against what is an impossible killer to counter at certain levels of play.
Ghoul is not OP, but is unfun to go against and gives massive value for autoclicker-tier gameplay. Ghoul needs a sidegrade to make him require more skill intensive, and his mark shouldn't be tied to deep wound. He doesn't need slowdown on top of mobility and chase power.
I hate Noed. It's a pity perk for bad players. I never use it and what it either immediately visible so survivors know to find it, or reworked entirely.
Omg, is this my first time being accused of being a killer main?
It's like my very own forum baptism! However, I'll bite on the whataboutism for some fun:
Nurse needs work, yes. I'd prefer her to have a unique item/station to limit her, ideally keeping her play as is but giving survivors more agency against what is an impossible killer to counter at certain levels of play.
Ghoul is not OP, but is unfun to go against and gives massive value for autoclicker-tier gameplay. Ghoul needs a sidegrade to make him require more skill intensive, and his mark shouldn't be tied to deep wound. He doesn't need slowdown on top of mobility and chase power.
I hate Noed. It's a pity perk for bad players. I never use it and what it either immediately visible so survivors know to find it, or reworked entirely.
Any more, bud?
I mean, it's kinda hard not to assume you are a killer main when you are arguing against a perk that's actually good at countering a lot of the top tier killers and weak against the low tier killers.
I mean, it's kinda hard not to assume you are a killer main when you are arguing against a perk that's actually good at countering a lot of the top tier killers and weak against the low tier killers.
It's pretty evenly strong against all killers, to be honest, with slight improvements vs aura junkies. The problem is the way it ended up being used, not as a stealth perk, but as a chase perk to freely remove scratchmarks, noise and guarantee a variable amount of distance.
If you want to keep its usefulness in chase, as opposed to the clear design intention of it being an out-of-chase-track-the-killer type affair, make it conditional like Overzealous, so if the killer outplays it or you try to break chase at the wrong time, you're punished instead of getting another shot at it.
love how these comments always get downvoted and no one is willing to actually discuss why they disagree. I suspect its because its obviously an insanely powerful perk and survs want to use it regardless of how bad its going to impact the game
if it releases into live as it is, its a guaranteed slot in my build as i play more stealthy and thats far stronger than any other stealth perk in the game. its not even a competition.
Or maybe, just maybe, the perk hasn't been finalised or released so people are just sick of the doom-posting over something that hasn't even happened yet. Crazy, I know!
Or maybe, just maybe, the perk hasn't been finalised or released so people are just sick of the doom-posting over something that hasn't even happened yet. Crazy, I know!
It's pretty evenly strong against all killers, to be honest, with slight improvements vs aura junkies. The problem is the way it ended up being used, not as a stealth perk, but as a chase perk to freely remove scratchmarks, noise and guarantee a variable amount of distance.
If you want to keep its usefulness in chase, as opposed to the clear design intention of it being an out-of-chase-track-the-killer type affair, make it conditional like Overzealous, so if the killer outplays it or you try to break chase at the wrong time, you're punished instead of getting another shot at it.
Not really, it requires terror radius so it's weak against stealth killers, you can't really loop against trap killers like hag, trapper, or skull. Doctor has screams so he can more or less ignore it by instantly finding you again. Legion has killer instinct. Ranged killers can hit over most loops so you are really only left with dashslop killers that are primarily affected by it.
Not really, it requires terror radius so it's weak against stealth killers, you can't really loop against trap killers like hag, trapper, or skull. Doctor has screams so he can more or less ignore it by instantly finding you again. Legion has killer instinct. Ranged killers can hit over most loops so you are really only left with dashslop killers that are primarily affected by it.
It's specifically strong on tall loops so the ranged aspect doesn't really apply outside of orbitals which are crapshoots anyway.
It's actually significantly stronger against Hag and Trapper because it's clear, intended use buffs some of the best counterplay against them: One survivor follows them and disarms all their stuff. Then when they have to M1 chase you without any set up, the elusive in chase applies again.
Legion only has KI in Frenzy, so if Legion actually wants a down, they'll be dealing with it same as anyone else.
Or maybe, just maybe, the perk hasn't been finalised or released so people are just sick of the doom-posting over something that hasn't even happened yet. Crazy, I know!
i mean you kind of have to "doom post" to make it very clear the perk is problematic if it stays as it is right now and the only way that would get changed to be different on full release is if its discussed….
like….you do know thats the point of the PTB right?……right?
It's specifically strong on tall loops so the ranged aspect doesn't really apply outside of orbitals which are crapshoots anyway.
It's actually significantly stronger against Hag and Trapper because it's clear, intended use buffs some of the best counterplay against them: One survivor follows them and disarms all their stuff. Then when they have to M1 chase you without any set up, the elusive in chase applies again.
Legion only has KI in Frenzy, so if Legion actually wants a down, they'll be dealing with it same as anyone else.
Oh no, a 3v1 because one person is wasting all their time following me. How horrible having one less person on gens. And sure, it's strong on tall loops just like how ranged killers are strong at short loops, I don't really see an issue with one side having an advantage on loops unless you think we should remove all short loops. Also, legion is really simple. You just injure them and then come back to down them while they are injured and before they can get to any loop.
i mean you kind of have to "doom post" to make it very clear the perk is problematic if it stays as it is right now and the only way that would get changed to be different on full release is if its discussed….
like….you do know thats the point of the PTB right?……right?
I'm pretty sure they'd have stats or observed matches showing how it performs. Those are probably better than a bunch of people competing against each other to see who could shout the loudest about how a perk is overpowered while it's busy not having an objective, measurable effect on anyone's escape rates.
is the game becoming more catered towards survivors now due to some of the perks survivors have been used a lot specifically like bully squad perks or let alone heavy gen rush builds with the recently added perks (AGAIN DONT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY I JUST WANT OPINIONS!)
it's been catering towards survivors for years but cross examination is ultra busted and wide open throttle makes it so that the devs are going to put out perks that give haste but on cooldown so that makes non mobile killers even worse. lend a hand just promotes faster heals (which diminishing returns was allegedly supposed to address)
it's been catering towards survivors for years but cross examination is ultra busted and wide open throttle makes it so that the devs are going to put out perks that give haste but on cooldown so that makes non mobile killers even worse. lend a hand just promotes faster heals (which diminishing returns was allegedly supposed to address)
Giving off big "How do you do fellow survivor" vibes. Complaining about wide open throttle is hilarious.
I'm pretty sure they'd have stats or observed matches showing how it performs. Those are probably better than a bunch of people competing against each other to see who could shout the loudest about how a perk is overpowered while it's busy not having an objective, measurable effect on anyone's escape rates.
then why are they actively asking to recieve feedback via people praising or critiquing it?
Giving off big "How do you do fellow survivor" vibes. Complaining about wide open throttle is hilarious.
wide open throttle gives haste on a cooldown which is a big problem for the future since i can easily see there being a mini lithe or something similar
wide open throttle gives haste on a cooldown which is a big problem for the future since i can easily see there being a mini lithe or something similar
Yeah I'm sure that you'll never be in a situation where it goes off and screws you over. Totally free perk with no downsides at all.
I think they're heavily overrated, the haste on throttle is modest and finding an opportunity to actually vault a pallet in chase isn't as common as you think and I predict a lot of survivors trying to force the perk and going down because of it.
Lend a Hand you kinda have to measure the time it takes to activate vs how much time it's saving on heals, it's probably fine but nothing insane.
Cross Examination just needs a time nerf to about 2 seconds and it's fine and on a lot of the open maps it's gonna do less than people think
It's so funny how this has more downvotes than upvotes. This site is genuinely just an echo chamber for survivor players. Every single CC. Every single top dbd player has said the same thing.
Cross examination is a disgustingly overpowered perk that should not exist in its current form. Elusive is too powerful of a status effect to just hand out willy nilly.
Not a single argument gets made for why it's balanced, they just downvote and move on because they can't actually retort anything.
In this instance, to be fair, I think it's more that people who are being overtly hostile and unhelpful are getting downvoted.
Downvotes don't mean anything, of course, you shouldn't pay attention to them. Here though, of we want to find an explanation, I think it's more that posters ranting about how the devs must favour survivors because this perk is the most broken thing to ever exist in the game is just kind of annoying.
Plus, of course, if you disagree with the overall opinion of a given thread you get downvoted, that's just how it works.
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Comments
Cross Examination will be the most broken thing to ever come to this game
The only survivor perk in recent times that has entered the meta is Finesse. The rest of the meta are all very old perks.
The new survivor perks are some of the most bold designs they've put out in a while.
That being said, these new batch of perks have taught us that Elusive is an EXTREMELY strong effect. To that end I think it's obvious that I am of the opinion that Cross Examination is ridiculously overpowered and needs a heavy nerf and/or additional activation conditions.
I can't see any immediate balancing issues with Lend a Hand, so there's that. Seems like a cool and useful effect overall.
Wide Open Throttle seems fun and useful too, though I can't help but wonder if the Haste is a little strong, so that remains to be seen.
All that being said: No, just because survivors are getting some cool perks doesn't automatically mean killers are taking a back seat. Killers got some amazing perks with Henry, and are getting some cool tools with Jason (in addition to Jason himself).
What is taking a backseat however is live balance. They added Diminishing Returns then haven't said a word about it or any buffs to affected perks, not to mention the pile of perks that were already in need of buffs before they added Diminishing Returns. They haven't added any way to see which parts of your build or power may be diminished. They haven't reworked MMR as announced. They haven't done anything regarding unique hook bonuses or slugging. I get it: timetables change, but refusing to balance live content concurrently with major releases isn't cutting it anymore. Make different PTB builds if you have to. But returning to the glacial pace of balance changes that you used to have isn't okay with an ever-growing roster.
I don't think this is a new trend, this is more so a coincidence (the fact we got 3 potentially meta perks in one survivor)
Before this one, we got Tae-Young (1 good perk, 2 eh ones), the Stranger Things survivors (4 decent perks and 2 mid ones), and Vee (2 good perks and one big flop).
Overall, the trend is we get usable, relatively good but not meta perks.
So this chapter giving 3 powerful ones is more so an exception.
They are good, typical expected response though of everyone freaking out that survivors may get actually decent perks instead of slop.
I only dont like Cross Examination
love how these comments always get downvoted and no one is willing to actually discuss why they disagree. I suspect its because its obviously an insanely powerful perk and survs want to use it regardless of how bad its going to impact the game
if it releases into live as it is, its a guaranteed slot in my build as i play more stealthy and thats far stronger than any other stealth perk in the game. its not even a competition.
They're very different. Instead of the design philosophy of "In this niche situation do x 1/2/3% faster" we've got stuff which geneuinely has interesting and unique effects. I'm quite excited for both Lend a Hand and Wide Open Throttle, as I'm expecting some interesting builds/unique plays. Although, going to be warring with Megs cleansing dull totems with no totem perks of their own.
I've noticed people's worries about the two above mentioned perks have eased, and while some are still concerned about the combo of Lend a Hand and Resurgence, it still requires set up, meaning survivors will delay themselves early game to get faster heals later. That's not too bad. The issue here is Resurgence, not Lend a Hand.
However, I'll argue 'til I'm blue in the face that Cross Examination needs fixing. What makes it so broken, anti-skill and anti-fun right now is how it can be used in way that is highly likely not the intended use. If people want the switch to stealth while in chase, give it a cooldown or give it a condition, such as gaining its effect after cleansing or doing x% of a gen, and losing it on taking hit. Otherwise, it needs to be specified to not work in chase as I'm quite confident the idea behind it was to allow you to follow the killer, maybe pick up a slug they leave behind without being spotted, or hide for a save.
Yeah this is what I'm talking about. Just an overreaction to survivors getting something usable. Tell me do you also argue till your blue in the face that nurse should be nerfed or how about ghoul? What about stupidly strong killer perks like noed? Just need to ask to see if you are someone who is logically consistent or not.
Omg, is this my first time being accused of being a killer main?
It's like my very own forum baptism! However, I'll bite on the whataboutism for some fun:
Any more, bud?
Another NOED hater? my respect for you grows
I mean, it's kinda hard not to assume you are a killer main when you are arguing against a perk that's actually good at countering a lot of the top tier killers and weak against the low tier killers.
It's pretty evenly strong against all killers, to be honest, with slight improvements vs aura junkies. The problem is the way it ended up being used, not as a stealth perk, but as a chase perk to freely remove scratchmarks, noise and guarantee a variable amount of distance.
If you want to keep its usefulness in chase, as opposed to the clear design intention of it being an out-of-chase-track-the-killer type affair, make it conditional like Overzealous, so if the killer outplays it or you try to break chase at the wrong time, you're punished instead of getting another shot at it.
Or maybe, just maybe, the perk hasn't been finalised or released so people are just sick of the doom-posting over something that hasn't even happened yet. Crazy, I know!
I think that no one trusts BHVR anymore.
Not really, it requires terror radius so it's weak against stealth killers, you can't really loop against trap killers like hag, trapper, or skull. Doctor has screams so he can more or less ignore it by instantly finding you again. Legion has killer instinct. Ranged killers can hit over most loops so you are really only left with dashslop killers that are primarily affected by it.
It's specifically strong on tall loops so the ranged aspect doesn't really apply outside of orbitals which are crapshoots anyway.
It's actually significantly stronger against Hag and Trapper because it's clear, intended use buffs some of the best counterplay against them: One survivor follows them and disarms all their stuff. Then when they have to M1 chase you without any set up, the elusive in chase applies again.
Legion only has KI in Frenzy, so if Legion actually wants a down, they'll be dealing with it same as anyone else.
i mean you kind of have to "doom post" to make it very clear the perk is problematic if it stays as it is right now and the only way that would get changed to be different on full release is if its discussed….
like….you do know thats the point of the PTB right?……right?
Oh no, a 3v1 because one person is wasting all their time following me. How horrible having one less person on gens. And sure, it's strong on tall loops just like how ranged killers are strong at short loops, I don't really see an issue with one side having an advantage on loops unless you think we should remove all short loops. Also, legion is really simple. You just injure them and then come back to down them while they are injured and before they can get to any loop.
I'm pretty sure they'd have stats or observed matches showing how it performs. Those are probably better than a bunch of people competing against each other to see who could shout the loudest about how a perk is overpowered while it's busy not having an objective, measurable effect on anyone's escape rates.
it's been catering towards survivors for years but cross examination is ultra busted and wide open throttle makes it so that the devs are going to put out perks that give haste but on cooldown so that makes non mobile killers even worse. lend a hand just promotes faster heals (which diminishing returns was allegedly supposed to address)
Giving off big "How do you do fellow survivor" vibes. Complaining about wide open throttle is hilarious.
then why are they actively asking to recieve feedback via people praising or critiquing it?
Because they want player experience not just raw data.
wide open throttle gives haste on a cooldown which is a big problem for the future since i can easily see there being a mini lithe or something similar
Yeah I'm sure that you'll never be in a situation where it goes off and screws you over. Totally free perk with no downsides at all.
that sounds like a skill issue
Right, of course, my bad you are totally right. Ladies and Gentleman I don't think I've ever seen such an airtight argument before.
I think they're heavily overrated, the haste on throttle is modest and finding an opportunity to actually vault a pallet in chase isn't as common as you think and I predict a lot of survivors trying to force the perk and going down because of it.
Lend a Hand you kinda have to measure the time it takes to activate vs how much time it's saving on heals, it's probably fine but nothing insane.
Cross Examination just needs a time nerf to about 2 seconds and it's fine and on a lot of the open maps it's gonna do less than people think
In this instance, to be fair, I think it's more that people who are being overtly hostile and unhelpful are getting downvoted.
Downvotes don't mean anything, of course, you shouldn't pay attention to them. Here though, of we want to find an explanation, I think it's more that posters ranting about how the devs must favour survivors because this perk is the most broken thing to ever exist in the game is just kind of annoying.
Plus, of course, if you disagree with the overall opinion of a given thread you get downvoted, that's just how it works.