Is balancing patch comming any soon?
I would really love to see some meta shake up.
Some QoL changes like decluttering the bloodwebs.
Some killer changes, perk changes. Some tweaks, some buffs maybe.
Is anything coming?
Correct me if I am wrong but since Krasue PTB we didn't get any meaningful changes… only new content.
Comments
Survivor changes I would like to see are:
Killer changes I would like to see are:
That's a few of my wishlist changes I hope to see one day.
just a heads up in case this is meaningful to you, Vigil doesn't decrease the exhaustion timer by 66%, only 30%. If you look at the perk on Nightlight you can see that it's a wording change, it now "increases recovery speed" by 66% which is very confusing, but it results in 40s exhaustion timers being around 24(?) seconds or so. Not saying Vigil doesn't need a nerf, but it's not the percentage that's the issue, it's the fact that it applies to things like exposed
thank you!! ill update my knowledge with this, i didnt know this 😚
Firstly its 3 seconds- 3 seconds with 150% is 6 meters advantage, killer with 4.6 speed will catch up in 10 seconds which will result in 40 meter range, so survivor could choose the safest loop within this margin with no real counterplay from killer side or just waste 10 seconds… not by smart positioning, reaction check or good guess but just because lithe/sprint burst exist
if 3 seconds of 150% haste at start of every chase is not op nor "insurmountable" then give killers haste perks with same scaling and similar clanky set of "exhaustion" counters on survivor side, strongest and most similar in terms of activation condition rn is rapid- it realistically works once per chase and give only 2 meters advantage over 10 seconds
The whole point of bloodlust (if you go back to when it was added in ye' olden days) was added to prevent infinites, where the killer could never catch the survivor vaulting between multiple windows. Well, if you have enough pallets in one spot, you can basically create an infinite where the killer has to either spend half a minute staring at pallet-break animation, usually losing one or two gens in the progress (3 if its the start of the game). Or, you have to be playing a killer that maybe could outplay or mind game the survivor as they juggle between those say, 5 different pallets. But that's only certain ranged or mobility killers, depending on the exact type of loop (tall vs short, long vs wide, etc.)
Problem is 90% of killers I face lose in those situations because they try to play one pallet for too long, get bloodlust, then have to lose it breaking a strong pallet. Chaining loops used to be something difficult, took a ridiculous amount of skill. Nowadays, its far, far easier. With ridiculously lopsided map RNG? Modern infinites, basically. As long as the killer isn't a character like Bubba, Myers, or Singularity, who can just plow through all of the pallets in an area as quickly as possible (so like, 80% of the killer roster) then any decent survivor can have a 3 minute chase in those overcrowded tiles.
Map balance will always be this game's key issue, I'd say an underlying issue given that people tend to overlook it and focus entirely on the killers themselves.
Why should chaining loops be exceedingly difficult when most modern killers have a low skill floor and most modern maps are killer-favored?
Not exceedingly difficult, just more difficult than it is now. Compared to how matches played out on most maps just a year ago, directly contrasting them, you'd think BHVR went with the nuclear option. Some maps used to have only 12 to 15 pallets maximum. One of which was Dead Dawg Saloon, I believe. Modern maps are not killer favored, Trickster's Delusion, Greenville Square, Nostromo Wreckage. Not even just looking at the most recently added maps, looking at the overall selection we have in public matches, almost every map that isn't equally balanced is survivor sided. Pallet density did nothing to help. Garden of Joy got reworked and for about 4 months was actually playable for once, just for them to introduce the increased pallet counts and now its back to being dreadful. Oh, or how about Badham Preschool? That map is hated universally by both sides, but why? Because its hard to loop on survivor, has a big learning curve. But once you know how, its incredibly survivor sided. House of pain, the basement house, the school itself, it has a fixed shack spawn you can reach from either house pretty easily. The basement house has this one long-wall filler tile with a pallet right in the middle that always seems to spawn between it and shack. Like 6 breakable walls on that map too. House of pain has that nickname because of its 4 or 5 window spawns. That map never needed more pallets. Now it does. How do you think the majority of the killer roster feels having to kick 10 god pallets on top of the map having 12+ windows, 4 of which are very safe god windows? It's just like Dead Dawg Saloon, it has so many windows, why did it need more pallets?
There are far better ways to balance maps than the way BHVR has approached it. They need to reign in the RNG and make it more reasonable, individually creating conditions and exceptions for how the spawns should interact with each other. Increasing the pallet count didn't actually fix dead zones, it just created giga-looping zones lol
Curious how you left out the Walking Dead map.
Nevermind the fact that it doesn't matter how many pallets there are if most of them are trash, killers are doing just fine according to the most recent data + killstreaks that are on-going all over the tier-list.
If you're struggling this much, just run Legion pallet break build. This reads to me like you want only one or two strong areas of a map you can brute force so the rest of the trial can be easy, no thanks.
you clearly havent played killer if you think a perk that says get the second strongest effect by doing nothing is okay or in any way balanced
First, I appreciate that you make posts like this, so thank you.
I agree with most of your changes in the survivor section.
I think it's crazy to call for Lithe to be nerfed without calling for Vigil or Sprint Burst to be nerfed first or as well. Personally I think Lithe should be the standard for exhaustion perks, I'd rather see weaker exhaustion perks buffed closer to Lithe's usefulness and the game balanced around that.
I heavily disagree with reverting flashlight changes to Hag, Wraith and Artist. If these mechanics were brough back the Wraith lightburn stun should be cut in half and the time to remove a trap/bird doubled. However, I am in favor of bringing back the mechanic of flashlights stopping Nurses from blinking.
Explain what you mean by "Killer Hitbox no longer blocks pallet from being dropped for pallet saves and in general" because to me I can only see one way to make this work and that would be to remove the killer's collision when picking up, which would be a beyond terrible change. It would remove the only counterplay that killers have for picking up under a pallet which is to bodyblock one side, so if another survivor is around they just wouldn't be able to pick up at all. Also, flashlighters/bangers would be able to run through killers picking up to make their saves.
I agree that Thrill of the Hunt should get a nerf and with your QoL suggestions but I think some of these killer nerfs are a bit much. Aside from Jason getting adjusted I'd rather see weaker killers buffed rather than stronger killers nerfed.
Most recent data? Where can I find this?
Also please don't use win streaks(which I assume you meant from kill streaks) as evidence, as certain people can play Trapper, a known meh killer, and still can go on a streak.
Besides Ghoul, what killers have a low skill floor? Do you know from personal experience?
Winstreaks are such a flawed way to draw conclusions about balance. People don’t understand how population statistics work. Only a handful of the worlds best players at the very very high end of the skills curve can achieve these winstreaks, yet people act like it’s representative of the average players in the middle of the curve.
Everyone agrees that the Walking Dead map is garbage for survivors, even people who play killer. How is cherry-picking this specific example supposed to prove that the person you are responding to is wrong about all the other maps they are talking about?
Thats the thing, win streaks are not exactly good for information on a player base scale.
Even more so with you being able to march with new players who don't know much about the game
They said that balance changes and QOL along with bug fixes will be midchpater, but we didn't really have midchapters lately. Shane's perks were out with Jason so it was just a skin release. His perks are not very popular either, so nothing really changed for months.
Bodyblocking one side of the pallet seems to be a bug brought around since they messed with collisions a while back. The pallet prompt fully disappears. You probably noticed a lot of survivors going for pallet saves and not being able to drop the pallet and getting smacked or downed. Feels really bad considering this has never been a thing since the beginning of the game. Removes a core aspect of the game that a lot of people love. The counter play is to find the survivor hiding for the save. Never has been a problem before, I don't know why it's been made a problem now. If you can't find the survivor hiding for the save, the pallet save is the reward for being able to stealth around the killer and being able to save your teammate.
Or slug and build more pressure. Find the survivor hiding for the save, now you have 2 downs and the game beins to get a little bit chaotic and intense.
I also don't know if it's just me but i've never had issues with Vigil/Sprint Burst because it punishes the killer for not commiting to a chase and you realistically only get one use out of exhaustions if you do actually commit, so the hysteria about Vigil has never made sense to me… Also Sprint Burst doesn't annoy me as much as Lithe, because I know Lithe players aren't really thinking in chase, you can see it… They just lithe away for a free escape every time. Whereas Sprint Burst, it can be wasted and actually has a skill and bit of technique to it to get maximum use out of it.
That's their goal. I assume that's the data if killers don't get big changes lately.
I did play as a pig last night on disturbed ward with stbfl, brutal, bamboozle and forever entwined, without dash addons - 4k2.
I don't know man, when you stop breaking pallets all the time and start properly mindgaming people you get good result, what else can I say?
I did play 2 matches on pig yday and both matches ended up being 4k… m1 killers are not that bad if you can play smartly.
I will make my own list too! I will "steal" some ideas because I like them.
Survivor:
Killer:
In general I wish we could have some fresh air, meta shake up and other perks to be useful, not only meta perks.
You cannot make few pallets into infinite loop, especially with bloodlust.
It's just not possible to run from pallet to pallet and never get a hit.
Minute long break? That's not 2016 anymore.
Pallet breaking was buffed twice in history and is now good enough.
You also have perks and addons that shorten the breaking time significally. You have tools, you just don't use them.
You are just making things up.
Go watch people play 1v1’s on YouTube. Good players can literally take you on a 5 minute pallet tour without getting hit once. Killer powers have counters and only survivors who are wholly unaware or massively misplay will get hit rotating between loops on most maps now. The average player is plenty capable of a 1 to 2 minute chase by themselves with this pallet density. I know this because I AM that average player, and I’ve done it. Claiming I’m making things up when virtually every YouTuber who plays killer in this game has agreed that the pallet spawns are messed up is an interesting rebuttal.
We’ve been living with these changes for almost a year now. Here, watch Scott bring up the fundamental problem on basically launch day of the pallet density update
https://youtu.be/KrZDD9MYcPI?is=BeS3qU7LWFJNvVxLI won't be wasting my time on dbd content creators that are not fun to watch.
I hate dbd rants, us vs them videos etc.
Brother, I've got 12 000 hours on this game, there will be nothing I didn't see.
You can't chain 5 pallets into infinite loops against decent killer.
It only works if killer doesnt understand zoning.
Don't get brainwashed from watching those YouTube content creators, they are really destroyers of fun.
You are supposed to have fun from a video game.
Watching them puts people in a weird power or ego trips.
I don't think it's a bug and I have never seen it called a bug by anyone until now.
I've been playing since 2018 and as killer as far as I can recall I have always been able to consistently bodyblock one side of the pallet, regardless of whatever collision changes have been made, especially if the survivor wasn't centered under the pallet. I haven't noticed any significant changes in the amounts of survivors going for pallet saves on the bodyblocked side of the pallet. During what period was it easier to get pallet saves?
Survivors can often choose to go down under pallets, they can crawl to either side of the pallet to force which side the killer can block, Background Player exists, there are more unsafe pallets now (so it's easier to get to either side of the pallet when the killer picks up) and there are more survivor stealth perks in the game including current Cross Examination, which seems tailormade to help a survivor stay close to the killer undetected.
Also, there already is the Power Struggle, Flip Flop, Unbreakable and usually Plot Twist build that already was a pain in butt which has just been buffed because a teammate can bring and use Lend a Hand on them.
So I hard disagree that pallet saves should be made any easier than they already are. Pallet saves should not be easy enough so that good killers could be easily bullied by mere duos. And I hate the idea of the counterplay being only "just slug."
Contradictorily, I do think the timing of pallet saves should be made slightly more forgiving since latency affects them too much currently.
“You vill drop ze 20 pallets per match, and break ze 20 pallets per match, and you vill like it!”
M1 killers are indeed that bad. Play against any competent players and you will be dog walked. Theres a point where a killers kit is so fundamentally weak (like pig) that even if you're the best player in the world on them you are going to struggle a LOT to keep up with any efficient survivors especially in current pallet density when there's another pallet 10 meters away. Getting semi-consistent 4k's as pig is just a tell of what kind of survivors you go against let alone one running STBFL as their best perk.
I think vol4r is literally just ragebaiting at this point, I wouldn't bother replying to them. 12,000 hours but claims to get consistent 4k's on Pig using a perk that hasn't synergized with their kit for over 2 years now, and another perk that literally exists just to kick pallets like .3 seconds faster. They downvote me because I speak the truth.
Yes, content creators tend to be negative because they play the game so much and this game for some reason just makes people eventually see the worst in each other. And yes, vol4r is 100% correct, the game is all about having fun. Its a video game after all.
But you know what, I have to agree with the CC's on this one, I don't think I find having such a surplus of pallets fun for either side. I want to feel rewarded for winning a chase as survivor, it feels cheap dropping so many pallets and seeing so many killers on the roster almost helpless to do anything. And I want to feel rewarded for zoning properly as killer. I shouldn't mindgame and play a pallet perfectly, force the survivor into a losing situation, just for them to break line-of-sight for 1 second and suddenly be at an equally or sometimes even more powerful tile/pallet like 10 meters away.
Is it really so controversial to say I want better map design, balanced for both sides to have at most a 60/40 or 40/60 fighting chance? Right now a lot of maps can get as bad as 20/80 depending on RNG and which killer is being played. Which maybe no one would believe me until they've played as or against a Trapper on RPD with all potential pallet spawns up, lol
It is, because your are expecting people to want to improve in the game.
People view it as a party game, when in all honesty it's a very toxic one if it is so.
But they also seem to think Party game and Competitive is mutually exclusive. Which it isn't.
They are not if player plays well.
Wait, you might be rage baiting honestly.
I don't need stbfl not to lose stacks on m2 to get good value out of this.
I use brutal for the zoning and quicker break on harder pallets.
How you are gonna feel rewarded for chasing a survivior who doesn't have any resources to work with?
We are playing different game apparently.
you’ve solved your own puzzle
You’re bringing a perk that’s whole design is to chew through resources quicker so they have none (brutal strength), I am discussing that I find it more fun when good killer plays aren’t met with ‘hold W to the next pallet/window’ literally 5 times in one chase. “Just zone bro” isn’t a valid argument when in every direction there’s a viable tile to loop at.
My whole point is that the current state of map RNG and pallet counts doesn’t reward good killer plays anymore, I never said I’d feel rewarded chasing survivors into dead zones. But dead zones have to exist or else fundamentally chases will likely NEVER end! If you can kick 5 pallets in a corner of the map, and there’s still 2 safe windows and 3 more pallets, then what was the point wasting a minimum 10-15 seconds at each of those 5 pallets to begin with? It’s why playing survivor feels so godawful and boring now, every single killer that wants to win is tunneling, face camping, and 3-gen-ing on the part of the map that looks like it has the least viable loops. You know how unfun that is? Idk how they do it, guess they find winning more fun than having actual chases anymore. Like imagine playing killer and spending 90% of the match sitting in one quadrant of the map kinda just waiting for survivors to inevitably lose. Jason is the best at it too, he can just bounce around any three generators and stall the whole game until survivors just give up. All of this is symptomatic of the map design making killers realize there are more viable pallets than there are 15 second intervals it would take to finish all 5 gens. Even if you broke every pallet in chase under 10 seconds each, survivors just pre-dropping them Willy Nilly, you’d still lose. I play a lot of Bubba, he chews pallets like no one else. I know very well that this is the case. Survivors shouldn’t be able to just go in ‘autopilot mode’ as some have called it, and send the killer on a pallet tour every match. The killer is forced to bite his tongue and only try chasing wherever he’s kicked all of the pallets already, and that’s literally what you just called unrewarding!
Let me sum it up, to be sure we’re on the same page. Less Pallets = more rewarding chases. For both sides.
Im not saying gut pallet counts either, I think the current counts are only 2-3 pallets too high on most maps. The problem is the spawns these pallets have, there are too many safe pallet loops now thanks to the increased count. I want to feel rewarded for reaching a good pallet, being able to win mind games, stunning the killer being important again. Instead, right now you can pre-drop and run to the next loop before the killer can reach you almost every single time. And it’s a problem in a lot of loops even for mobility killers. If the distance is too short, Ghoul can’t do anything. If the distance isn’t narrow Wesker can be dodged to lose even more distance. If the distance is too open, Blight will have nothing to bump off of. They’re not even immune from the hold W predrop strategy, they just have circumstances where they might be able to catch or cut off a survivor before they reach the next loop. But most maps are so dense now it’s even hard for them to do it anymore. Imagine how killers without mobility feel. I play Cenobite for crying out loud, the only reason I ever win is because people don’t know you should never drop a pallet until you get hit with a chain. So they often give me free hits while slow vaulting. Otherwise, I’d literally have to kick 20 pallets per match, which just isn’t viable if you want to even make the match a close loss. The devs clearly realize this because in their livestream they mentioned that they’re changing the win condition in the MMR system so that it isn’t based on kills anymore but instead overall performance.
The reason people should take this seriously is because pallets and loops have to be at least relatively well spaced, or else there’s no reason for killers to even bother playing on half of the map. The only reason I don’t lose every match not using the boring camping playstyle is because I main Cenobite, and the box forces me to consider its spawns on the majority of the map to activate the other half of my kit. For other killers, they can just play in the most mind numbing way possible, forcing all survivors to come to them by the end of the game, and just slugging or hook trading until it’s snowballed into a loss.