It's time to stop slugging for good BHVR.
Survivors need base kit unbreakable after 60 seconds. Slugging is busted beyond belief in this game. Whether killers like it or not base kit unbreakable is the answer. It will force them to hook survivors as the game intends. BHVR please fix slugging asap.
Comments
And replacing them with? You can't just blanket nerf and call it a day.
True, but every 30s plus endurance 10s (endurance only if 2-3 survs slugged)
Give them something entirely new is my point. You can assign them to whatever you want
Friend, my point is you can't just make this statement and not give us suggestions. If you don't have suggestions of how to actually make the perks better besides "just nerf and put different effects on" without giving examples of what kind of effects, this discussion makes no sense and just comes off as venting.
Now please list the perks you want changed and what exact changes you want, in detail, so we can continue the conversation - or else move on.
My point isn't to nerf them. My point is that if you implement basekit unbreakable, the perks that allow you to pick yourself up faster shouldn't be doing it anymore. Maybe unbreakable can allow you to be mroe silent while in the dying state or maybe it just should get something completely different, essentially a completely new perk. It's not about what the perks should do, it's about these perks becoming too strong with basekit unbreakable
If they don't take away slugging we're going to need a massive unbreakable buff. lol
Run unbreakable and/or WGLF if you have issue with slugging…
Do you want a survivor strike? Because the game the way it is, this is how you get it
Oh I see. I kinda like the idea of Unbreakable doing something with maybe the Broken effect instead, since I really like risky perks - like you become "Breakable" to gain the benefit of being "unbreakable" later, or maybe you pick yourself up once and become Broken but for the duration leave no scratch marks, grunts of Pain, or any blood drops until Broken wears off (once a round of course) similar to Off the Record sort of without the endurance. Or maybe, we can just scrap basekit Unbreakable and make Unbreakable have unlimited pickups, but they cause you to be Broken each time for so many seconds or it takes longer to pick up every time.
As per the faster pickup perks, maybe if Unbreakable is basekitted or made stronger, they can do something else on pickup - like when you are picked up it heals the other person a bit, or when you get up/are picked up it shows auras on something, or when you get up/are picked up it gives you a slight Haste for so many seconds, IDK. We already have perks for this though.
Let's say we did add basekit Unbreakable, unlimited basekit Unbreakable. I don't think that is the solution but if they went that route, then a lot of changes would need to be made. Here's how I'd make it fair:
That means this mechanic only activates IF the Killer is truly doing toxic Slugging in any way, they ACTUALLY leave you to bleed out, or they are humping you on the ground. You can't abuse it to run the timer out. You can't force the old never hook me corner shenanigans, and you can't benefit from slugging this way anymore.
I will assume for the sake of argument, you mean that any perk that benefits a Survivor being Downed and then gives them a way to get back up themselves needs changed if we basekit Unbreakable, just so those perks cannot be abused. Let's say we basekit an unlimited Unbreakable. If so then we'd change these:
Then the following items need changes:
- Styptic: You don't get to heal a health stage later with this if you use your Unbreakable and then someone heals you with this.
- Syringe: You do not get the speed boost if you used Unbreakable to pick yourself up from Dying and then are healed with this.
- Refined Serum: Much like the Syringe above - if someone gives you this, you don't get the speed boost if you just healed by picking yourself up with Unbreakable.
And in addition I would add to combat Sabo-wiggle type plays that may abuse this, change these:
- Boil Over: If you go down after wiggling free within 30 seconds of being freed, you don't then get the basekit Unbreakable unless the Killer is actually standing over you and proccing the antigrief. Sorry.
- Saboteur (and sabotaging in general): Breaking hooks near a carried Survivor deactivates that Survivor's basekit Unbreakable if that Survivor is put back down or dropped due to a stun near that same hook until the hook comes back, that Survivor is healed from Dying, the Killer and all Survivors are 16 m away for 10 seconds, or the Killer can hook the Survivor. Breaking a hook near a Survivor in the Dying state does the same thing, but also pauses the anti-slugging and antigriefing timers until the Killer is able to hook or nobody is near the broken hook. This is to prevent sabo shenanigans making it so Killers can never hook in a given area, especially if many people have sabotage builds and the Killer is an M1 or low mobility. I'm sure a fix for highly mobile M2s that might abuse this could be found.
- Breakdown: Broken hooks prevent the slugging counter from activating if someone is downed near one, as per above.
- Breakout: If the Survivor is dropped because of Breakout, that Survivor cannot use the basekit Unbreakable for one minute if they are downed again within 30 seconds. No rewarding Survivors for mistakes like not thinking of how to plan an escape route if you know your friend has this perk.
- Deliverance: If the Survivor uses Deliverance to get off the hook, or any other free unhook perk like Wicked, and they are downed again within 30 seconds of that perk doing its job, they must wait one minute before Unbreakable can be used after they are downed again. No rewarding Survivors for bad plays like self-unhooking in front of the Killer.
- Flip-Flop: The same as with Breakout.
- Power Struggle: Also the same as with Breakout.
Way more generous hook spawns - We already have 2-3 hooks available from every corner, how much more generous do you need?
Nerfs to sabotage - There is a built-in nerf to sabotage, it is the 'drop Survivor' keybind. You can also simply fake left then go right. I've had matches where I literally sabo'd 3 hooks, and the Killer still got a hook. As with all things in games, try it before you call to get it nerfed. I tried Supports in Marvel Rivals, and holy moly they need nerfs badly. A 12s effective invincibility circle? Really? No anti-heal in the game at all? Heal does more numbers than DPS, and they have generous auto-aim? Ludicrous. Compare that to sabo, where you have at minimum, 2 directions to choose from, giving the Survivor a 50-50 for sabo out the gate, being able to redirect if you see/hear a sabo, and finally dropping them if you carried them for less than ~13s safely, yeah sabo is super easy to counter.
Pallet saves - What? They are plenty easy to counter, especially with the bug that allows same frame swings to prevent a rescue. Plus 99% of the time if you instapick you are safe, so if 99% of the time there isn't a threat, I'd say it doesn't need any nerfs, and a buff if anything. Plus it isn't like pallets are infinite. I love it when they pallet rescue at shack, because that is a free godpallet down.
Flashbang saves - Only fair point, you shouldn't be able to be blinded while facing a wall (as in touching it, not just facing any direction and a wall exists 30m out), and the noises need to be fixed, not merely falsely claimed to be fixed.
Overall though 60s self-pickups would only allow for 3 self-pickups tops, and that is assuming they never crawled, which could even drop that to 2.
They already tried to implement the Unbreakable basekit and it didn't work out very well, they had to revert it. Besides, they've already shown with data that slug is not a very common thing, so it doesn't matter.
I also remember the nightmare PTB where they tested a new gameplay mechanic where the game automatically ended if all four players were slugged at the same time. I recommend looking up footage if you weren't there to experience that in real time.
You've put a lot of time and thought into this response. I really appreciate the unique perspective you bring to your ideas, but you also have to put yourself in the developer's shoes. If you were a community manager and you were trying to relay audience feedback to an engineer that has no otherwise exposure to the community or what they care about—how would you translate your ideas to them? Your ideas need more alignment with the tools we have available to us to build from. The best way to get your voice heard in the community is to speak the same language as the developers that build the game. One thing that comes to mind is the Conspicuous Action system we have in place. I would take your ideas and analyze them from that perspective. How would Conspicuous Actions impact the system you proposed, and are the times in alignment with other perks already in the game? The more natural the solution you present is, the easier it is to understand and implement solutions for it.
Boil Over: If you go down after wiggling free within 30 seconds of being freed, you don't then get the basekit Unbreakable…To rewrite your suggestion here:
… unless the Killer is actually standing over you and proccing the antigrief. Sorry.Tenacity: Has a time limit of 30 seconds of crawlingIts like every match now. Slugging slugging and more slugging. BHVR please fix
Ever play a weaker killer against a team that knows what they're doing? If you try to hook ASAP after every down, you won't stop the gen completion.
If you sap knockdowns, you'd have to pump up a lot of the weaker killers at the same time, which is a ton of work that detracts from chapter creation and the producers ARE NOT gonna go for that.
So maybe you should think about packing up and forgetting about all these low-vibe, sore-loser style terms like "slugging, camping and tunneling" and just figure out how to deal with it using the tools at your disposal instead of demanding that the game be fractured and a giant chunk of the killer roster be rendered more or less useless just because you're not getting the experience you desire like a soda out of a vending machine.
Camping and tunneling are viable. Slugging is NOT! Bypassing 8 hook states is NOT fair to survivors.
Hey, whoa, timeout - what do you mean "bypass?"
It's possible to get three strikes on hook, at no point were survivors EVER entitled to that…and they shouldn't be considering how fast the gens can be done, not every killer kit is S-tier and capable of consistent 12-hook matches.
would like to just say, this game has been dogwater lately because of slugging. I don't care what they do, but I've been spending my time elsewhere. It needs to be addressed
Killers are more than broken enough to 4k almost every match without slugging. Killers have been buffed like crazy and their perks and add ons mixed the right way they don't need to slug. Slugging makes it incredibly unfair to survivors. Plus we ARE entitled to three chances on hook. The game was meant for killers to hook survivors. It says right in the games instructions in the tutorial. Oh yes down each survivor once instant win. Real fair. BHVR PLEASE fix slugging! Look at your messages here! NOBODY thinks slugging is fair besides killer mains who never play survivor.
Especially solo q survivors. They REALLY get it bad.
"NOBODY thinks slugging is fair besides killer mains who never play survivor."
I wouldn't make a blanket claim slugging is unfair. It depends on the situation. There is a time and place for everything. Yes, some of the examples shown on these forums are unacceptable and Bhvr really need to look at solutions to those situations.
you gotta love how literally every single thing the killer can do to win in this game that isn't being super nice reddit wholesome chungus 8 hook before killing anybody is seen as a problem that needs an immediate solution
The fact your are lying so much shows how your position is not based on actual evidence. I didn't say it was impossible to hook someone from a corner, just that most of the time there is only 1 hook available. And I don't have clips of it because I didn't expect people to ask me for evidence for normal game occurrences.
Also, unless you play Nurse or Blight or something getting a hit on skilled Survivors consistently every 20 seconds is pure fantasy. And if you also want evidence for that, just watch Otz's newt Xeno video. He plays a full game and while he has some chases that fall into the "20 second per health state" category, most take longer, while he was using a killer with an amazing chase power. And we also need to take into account the time to spot the Survivors, or the Chases that he drops early, or the Survivors getting a late start because they pushed through a gen or went for an unhook, or the Survivor that didn't mind taking a hit because they were just running to the gate. If we talking Survivors that don't have such downsides, and on a normal M1 killer, then consistently 20 seconds per hit is pure fantasy.
Simple fix if there is only 1 survivor left standing the others(or the first downed) can pick themselves up. This doesnt remove slugging for pressure while it gets rid of both slugging for 4k to drag out the match and malicious 4man slugging
Nah. Slugging is the only counter to a 4-man sabo-boil over squad that uses the map to their advantage. Just run unbreakable or smth
I think that would be a fair counter. This may be a hot take but it should be you can pick yourself up right away. No waiting for recovery.
Just to be clear from the start and to make my bias on this matter transparent: I am a mainkiller player - and would honestly agree with the original suggestion of 60 sec Unbreakable basekit.
The reason you slug a survivor is not because you want to spoil someone else's fun, but because it prevents the survivor team from making the generators. They have to send at least one member of their team to help their downed comrades get back on their feet. This takes time - and during this time the downed player is not able to sit down at a generator and repair it. Grabbing him by the hook is ineffective because there are currently a lot of perks and mechanics/counter-strategies that make it very difficult to hook the downed player without him or another survivor being able to prevent this instantly and stun the killer for several seconds.
...which costs momentum and, given the tight schedule that the killer has to follow in order to exert sufficient pressure so as not to lose the game, often leads to certain defeat after the second such incident. And yes, I'm looking at you, DS.
60 seconds is a good amount of time so that the team members feel sufficiently motivated to put their own actions on hold to help the downed player, because otherwise he will be out for so long and they will be facing the killer alone (which fulfils the reason for the slug), but not so long that the player has no realistic chance of participating in the match again.
Less time, such as 30 or 40 seconds, would be less effective because it would bring him back into the game too early and encourage him to simply stay in the area and chase him down again immediately after jumping up. He would effectively be back on the ground in the long term and the other players would be able to do the generators in peace, but effectively it would be boring for them as they wouldn't get any chases.
However, I would also be open to CursedPerson's suggestion (‘Simple fix if there is only 1 survivor left standing the others(or the first downed) can pick themselves up. This doesnt remove slugging for pressure while it gets rid of both slugging for 4k to drag out the match and malicious 4man slugging") because it is still a fair way out that also makes sense of the Slugg strategy.
Strange, I have evidence of common nuisances and bugs. So either you are the one lying about 'only 1 hook available', or you don't know the maps well enough. Here is an example of a nuisance I took a screenshot of, and it was common on Thompson House at the time.
As far as the 20s/health state, I'm not talking about the context of an entire match. I'm talking about under a pallet, where you can block one side and have to risk the other side with a pallet or flashlight save. You can push them off, get a free hit, or get the free pickup within that timeframe. If a player can't do that, then it is either super bad map gen RNG (something like 4 pallets in a row, in which case getting the pallet destroyed is more valuable than the Survivor being unshouldered), or a skill issue.
Also who is talking about going against comp teams or 'skilled Survivors'? Standard DBD queue doesn't have 'skilled Survivors' (at least in comparison to how skilled you can be as a Killer), so this isn't relevant except for custom matches if that truly is your point. I just hit play and queue like everyone else, and this is never an issue to 'worry about slugging because they threatened a pallet save'. I can instapick in 99.95% of cases without even a risk of a save (pallet/flashlight/flashbang/etc.). I can simply use my brain in the remaining 0.05% of scenarios and come out on top.