Frustrated P100 Sadako Main.
I have had a lot of time to think about this, I have gone through and seen all the changes and tried my best to adapt.
Before I mention my thoughts, briefly, I understand there are other killers in the roster that need to be tended to, and they should be priority. Sadako has had her chance few times so we can come back to this but I want people to know what I’m thinking and feeling. Especially behavior.
Reworks are important sure, but not changing the character from what we paid for. (Trickster, Sadako, Freddy, Skull Merchant)
I have over 2000 hours in this killer. Here are my thoughts and frustrations.
Against low MMR survivors, this killer breezes through them, because they don’t know how TVs work. If I am playing against decent MMR survivors or high MMR survivors, may the odds forever be in my favor.
Behaviour you’ve done amazing work! However, please 🙏🏼 Tapes must be “cursed” OG tapes must return. I’m all for my TVs getting shut off but please they need to be reminded this is a curse! Otherwise counter play is too easy.
1) Tv spawns are not ideal. This affects her ability to condemn. (I shouldn’t have to bring an offering to make it better.)
2) Survivors pre run due to the Visual Terror Radius. Defeats the purpose of being a stealth killer. (Keep lullaby)
3) Survivors Counterplay is too easy. TVS are constantly off. No condemn, which means no slowdown mechanic, and no mobility. 2 aspects of her power out the door. (Wellstone addon. 6 seconds of 70? Isn’t gonna cut it)
4) Tapes need to be a threat again. (OG Sadako.) This will at least buy me some slowdown. Tapes need to slowly build condemn like they use to. This was a very unique feature that got removed and it made me so sad. It’s like playing pig, slappin a trap on someone’s head but saying “Ha!! No timer!”
5) Please bring passive condemn tapes back. Survivor grabs tape. Tv is off. No condemn stack granted. Passive condemn now grows for holding onto the tape. (This goes with point 4. Just trying to break it up.)
6) Tape insertion is 1 second. That’s steep. 1.5 is healthier. There’s very little counter play for her against survivors on this. (I could be wrong but It use to be 3 seconds for inserts)
7) Addons - After 2 addon passes I really thought there would have been more balance changes than this.
*Clump of hair needs a numbers buff or base kit. The main issue though with selecting this addon is that Survivors know you’re coming due to the visual heart beat.
*Distorted Photo is good but the issue is a survivor has to “Witness” you manifesting to take effect. Very annoying. Which means you’ll rarely get value out of it.
*Mothers Mirror - needs to be base kit. New effect needs to be added to it.
*VCR - is useless. They know which TV you are coming out of due to the auras.
*Tape editing deck - this is built on the old design that I love. In its current version it’s useless. Seeing their aura after putting in a tape is poo, they’ve cleansed. The tape is gone and now I get to see their aura for it? It’s a slap in the face.
Yoichis fishing net. Bring back old effect. (We don’t need 2 blindness addons. Sea soaked cloth and this one)
Rickety Pinwheel and Seasoak cloth punish you if you use your power. You no longer have an addon. (These 2 addons should be merged into green, and the addon would be better if it still worked while the tv was off)
Thank you so much for those that read this, and have supported me since I have started my journey out of the well. Honorable mention @jonifire helped me get my thoughts organized and he too has some of his own thoughts on the topic but if we are in this to improve overall quality for everyone to make it the best experience possible, we have to finish the rework we started. Please. 🙏🏼
Comments
I call her 3.0 version global condemn lite. While it is not a true map wide condemn like 2.0, it still retains many of the flaws that came with global condemn but at a reduced value. The main flaw being that it can apply condemn on multiple points of the map at once without require Onryo to be nearby and as a result survivors have to disable TVs in order to protect themselves. This means that with one action survivors can protect themselves from condemn while also limiting Onryo's map mobility by teleportation. This is the opposite of 1.0 where survivors didn't need to turn off TVs to protect themselves and were actively discouraged to do sure by the threat of cursed tapes.
However, while I strongly prefer Onryo's release mechanics when it comes to condemn and TV tapes, in any version of her power were survivors are punished by not turning off TVs such as 2.0 and 3.0, we cannot have passive condemn from TV tapes. This is because it would create a lose-lose situations for the survivors.
For example with her global condemn lite 3.0 form, a survivor has to grab a tape before working a gen in order to protect themselves from condemn. If they do not do this, then the survivor will quickly gain condemn as Onryo teleports around. However if grabbing a tape applies passive condemn as well, the survivor is equally punished for grabbing the tape to protect themselves and takes the risk of condemn over time. Both of these scenarios can be dangerous if the survivor wants to make any gen progress and it gives survivors no means to effectively counter condemn while progressing the objective in a timely manner. A lose-lose situation as said and one that I think would be unhealthy for the game.
These problems come from the concept of map wide condemn, even if it is in a reduced form such as her 3.0 current version. I've been saying it since the 2.0 PTB but any sort of map wide condemn on Onryo makes her hard to balance and punished soloq/new players; attempts to balance this results in her being too weak in higher MMRs against skilled teams.
I truly believe the best way to make Onryo balanced and fun for all MMRs is to go back to single TV condemn upon Projection like in her 1.0 version but with some new QoL buffs such as an increased basekit condemn range to 18 meters, while also reverting the changes to TV tapes so that survivors holding tapes gain passive condemn again.
”I truly believe the best way to make Onryo balanced and fun for all MMRs is to go back to single TV condemn upon Projection like in her 1.0 version but with some new QoL buffs such as an increased basekit condemn range to 18 meters, while also reverting the changes to TV tapes so that survivors holding tapes gain passive condemn again.”
This ☝🏼
💯 agreed. I want this so bad. I never wanted these new changes with condemn. I do appreciate the Deb trying to do something different to make her stronger, but I still wanted to keep all the other stuff the original
3.0 condemned pressure is a nice balance between 1.0 and 2.0. I don't think passive condemned should make a return and her yellow and purple addons need an addon pass. The lack of viable addons is what makes her feel restricted. Having addons that give various debuffs to Survivors who hold tapes would encourage them not to hold on to tapes indefinitely.
On the topic of basekit buffs, I think making current ring drawing basekit and the addon increasing the amount of Condemned stacks to other Survivors from 1 to 1.5/2 when a Survivor holding a tape is hooked would introduce more pressure on a macro level. This would help offset the relatively ease Survivors can find a tv and turn their tapes in.
The previous iteration of Ring Drawing giving one Condemned stack when healing a Survivor from injured to full could also make a return via another addon.
This would be nice too :)
One thought I had while playing today is to give Sadako Any Means Necessary as part of her power, if BHVR were to give her a chase power. Yes, the survivor perk.
Allow her to reset a pallet at a certain range, put a cooldown timer on the reset being usable again and .5 seconds before Sadako can M1 post-reset + when the pallet can be thrown again. I get so many survivors (and a lot of subtle speed cheaters) just holding W and throw pallets and something like this would help that a tad.
I'd have to mull over how best to balance this sort of thing further.
It’s funny how you wrote this and it became a power for Vecna!!🤣
It would be neat. I definitely still have my frustrations with her and I hope Bhvr will just tweak a few small things on her. She’s nearly there.
The directional lullaby is still killing any and all stealth I am trying to incorporate.
My foresight scares me sometimes and Vecna may be one I dedicate some time to now that I got to P100 on Sadako as well.
The lullaby being directional is absolutely a slap to the face too, that and apparently when I perused the bug section some have found out her demanifest intermittence on killer side isn't matching what is seen by survivors in third person, so mindgames aren't working correctly either.
Fun times as a Sadako main.
Edit: Referring to this video made a month ago by JCGlitchmaster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvIkoeBKnBkYeah :/
This video has been reported on the bug thread by blueberry. (It won’t let me tag him for some reason)
It’s because I’m Demanifested at the moment so you can’t interact with me.
Would be nice if we could at least get an acknowledgement that they’re working on those bugs as they are actually a substantial nerf.
Also that her disappearing is actually not lasting the duration that it’s supposed to as well. Between that and the desync it’s quite substantial.
Yep, she struggles with balance of feeling like a presence in the game when her mechanics outright are so easily countered and out playable.. yet inexperienced players are just outright slammed.
Agreed 💯
What?
Constantly tonight. Survivors had my all my TVs off which shuts off not 1 but 2 of abilities by holding onto tapes because there is no punishment. This leaves me with a terrible stealth ability, and basic M1 killer. It’s awful feeling.
I’ve had to take a break. It’s an awful feeling. I really hope the devs fix her two core issues. Bad Stealth and survivors holding tapes free of charge no punishment. I had to walk away from my console.
Weren't you one of the guys that hated her 2nd version and was very happy when they first released her current version?
I wasn’t no. Did I hate the tp cooldown? Yes.