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Freddy is in such a sad state atm

M1_gamer M1_gamer
in General Discussions

Its pretty sad to see the state Freddy is currently in. He has one of not the most boring power in the entire game. Hes not really fun to play as. (love playing against him eventho its been so long since ive seen him.) hes IMO the most neglected character in the game. Wish my old main could get some love. A more interesting fun power, redesign and some cool cosmetics would be nice.

How do you feel about his current state?

Comments

  • Killing_Time Killing_Time

    @Seegson said:

    Freddy was never fun, plus he will not get cosmetics cause the license holders are not willing to cooperate with bhvr anymore

    Can you blame them? Look at what they've done to a horror icon. He's a joke!

  • Snowflake_Syndrome Snowflake_Syndrome

    @Devil_hit11 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338307#Comment_3338307

    In this day and age I only play MM using extra stalk+ either purple tombstone or infinite T3. With those addons he is easily an A tier killer if you understand how to use that kit. If you don't want to take my word for it ( I mained MM for 2 years) go watch coconut's video.

    I think almost everyone just plays J.Myer+Tombstone piece Myers. I am also laughing when you said that its only "A-tier". That implies that you don't think its S-tier because these add-on with proper build is easily top #1 top #2 build in entire game that only starstruck nurse could rival in term of power-level. Recently since addition of Pinhead and addition of Nemesis, Their perks have elevated Tombstone piece Myer to unprecedented level of power. Previously, Tombstone piece was meme build for Myers where the objective of the build was to find obsession, escape chase 3 times, become 130% then stalk everyone else and instant kill people after reaching 99% EV2. This strategy sounds simple because it is however finding obsession was pretty difficult in a timely manner. if you were facing a Myers, a lot people know his PWYF perk and would hide against it in case he had the add-on. If you didn't finish stalking people before 5 gens were done, then you'd lose with 0-1 kills. Simple killer to beat, right? That is until Nemesis & Pinhead comes along. Lethal Pursuer and Deadlock really ascended this build because they took away weakness of his add-on. With Lethal pursuer+PWYF+Corrupt+Deadlock, Lethal allows you to find obsession right at the start of the trial and CI+Deadlock are such powerful early game slowdown perks that its almost impossible for you to use all 5 generators with this amount of early game delay that these two perk provide. For how easy it is to find obsession, get 3 stacks, stalk everyone and instant kill 2 people with his purple add-on, you would have to be completely new to lose with this build. I am pretty sure that most player could probably go on 100+ win streaks with this add-on combination and perk combination. Its that absurdly strong. Its very hard to counter. The odds that 4 soloq player have distortion to counter Lethal and play perfectly to avoid his instant kill mori is very low.

    That is kinda why I said that Myers has lowest skill-floor & lowest skill-ceiling in the game. he is all raw power and not much else. Judith tombstone is also strong with myer's but its overall weaker then tombstone piece because the ability to mori 2 people in 1 ev3 is rare because survivor can just jump in lockers. The 9% slowdown is also large disadvantage for chaining instant moris with add-on. So yes Myer with instant kill mori is very likely an S-tier killer. Not a very skillful S-tier but I digress.

    I think corrupt and bloody coil is somewhat overrated. Corrupt intervention is a perk to to safe guard a bad start but when it comes to trapper. he always has bad start and him having good start is meaningless. its wasted perk slot. bloody coil is an easy to counter against trapper. you can disable traps with injured characters. he has normal TR. he cannot stealth you when your disarming traps. he has no anti-shift w tools or gap-close skills. his chase is reliant on you not knowing where his traps are but in swf, you can follow him around and disable any traps he does set. in chase, his setup time is long so the application of using his power in chase is non-existent. this is why iri stone is good for him. it takes away his weakness which is people disablign his traps and following him around. it allows him to put traps at pallets or windows without risk of survivor disabling his traps. if you disable his traps with said add-on, the add-on will re-arm them for him so your wasting your time trying disable traps. it makes him good 3 gen-lock character as he can turn an entire area into deadzone with the add-on. 3 gen-locking has never been easier then now with current gen-kick meta perks. With overcharge/cob/eruption/stbfl, his play-style has never been stronger then now. he plays the game at 1 gen and he either loses or wins based off your ability to break 3 gen. with current strength of these perks, trapper is arguably just as good at holding endless 3 gens as hens showcases with knight with 60 minute games.

    As I said, doctor has good 1vs1. the doctor that tru3 or otz faces are not good doctor's. A common strategy for vs doctor is pre-dropping pallets but thanks to his green range electrode add-on, he can prevent survivor from pre-drop pallets which is typically weakness for m1 killers. doc has other weakness though. He has no gap-closing or lethality so hold-w with health-states or bodyblocking is strong but i am not entirely sure how common this is in soloq. swf can easily abuse this but its uncommon soloq. to cover this weakness, doctor is big user of STBFL despite having no ability to preserve stacks, its his only option vs bodyblocking and health-state hold-w gameplay. a lot of killer are forced to break safe pallets and god pallets but doctor's ability to apply shock therapy to prevent them from being dropped allows him to counter just about any loop. At least when I play doctor, most of pallets remain standing against me. I barely break pallets as him because I can prevent most of them from being dropped and if they are dropped, I usually get hit for letting survivors drop pallets. Because how good his 1vs1 is at disregarding survivor's skill-level at looping, You can tunnel people with doctor indiscriminately. No survivor will ever be able to loop you for 5 generator if you use his shock therapy perfectly. He is not time efficient at tunneling as other top-tier killers but he is consistent at winning the chase. His biggest enemy like most killer is gen-speed. As long you successfully tunnel 1 survivor out of the game by 4 generator completion, you are very likely to close out the match as doctor. His madness slowdown and tracking can easily close out 3vs1 without much contest.. I would not say he is top tier but he is far from worst killer in the game. I used to main him for like first 3 years of dbd back when he was a lot worse. After his update, he was a lot stronger. I still play him occasionally but I have other interests in other killers more so then him.

    What a wall of text 😱

  • Xernoton Xernoton

    @DBDVulture said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337962#Comment_3337962

    -"I think freddy is up there with top 3 worst killer in the game"

    First off I do not agree MM is one of the worst killers in the game. If we picked some really good players ( and took away their voice coms during the game) I feel like I could do way better with MM than most people's favorite killer streamer could do with Doctor.

    In this day and age I only play MM using extra stalk+ either purple tombstone or infinite T3. With those addons he is easily an A tier killer if you understand how to use that kit. If you don't want to take my word for it ( I mained MM for 2 years) go watch coconut's video.

    I don't agree Trapper is in the bottom three either. Why? He is "ok" with bloody coil. You play corrupt+ some gen regerssion and bloody coil. You can pick where you three gen and then you control that the entire game. Your power physically turns loops off and that is very hard to get around. If bloody coil became base Kit trapper would jump up to B tier instantly.

    -"Doc has really good 1vs1. he requires a lot of precision and map knowledge to use his shock therapy"

    I'm going to assign you some homework. Watch Truetalent and Otz play against doctor. Watch them play as doctor. You will discover that Doctor's main kit power is detection. The anti loop was literally an afterthought as he didn't have it when he came out. Doc's power can be completely ruined by latency (just like all grabs in DBD). Both these very experienced players when against good survivors need about 6 shocks to get a hit. That is a garbage tier power for anti loop.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337971#Comment_3337971

    "Freddy can only teleport when there are gens left. He gets weaker and weaker with every gen completed. In the end, he has nothing."

    While you're not wrong about this it means Freddy can 3 gen better than 90% of the killers.

    "There is nothing in his addon-pass which helps his abilities besides Masterpiece and Sketch"

    Once again you are not wrong. Freddy had some brutal addons. The devs went medieval on his kit AND his addons - freddy was brutalized.

    Reducing his total snares was fair. Reducing their snare power was not necessary.

    Nobody even bothers to learn the "dangerous" freddy addons because that's not a thing anymore. Swing chains/paintbrush live on only in memory.

    Freddy with old tinkerer was a monster with multiple gen regression perks.

    Freddy is now severely limited by someone running We'll make it OR CoH. He had very good at hit and run gen defense and that's mostly dead.

    The problem with killer reworks is that Freddy was only punished and killers like Legion/Pig/GF got a number of positive changes. Pig lost her abusive gear combo - yay. Pig now no longer can have everyone remove traps on the first try. That's an amazing QoL change.

    The reality is that we have come to a point in the road with balance where we are either talking about Blight/Nurse and SWF or we are talking about everything else. Nobody really gives any F's in chat for the last category. But the big other three elephants in the room are what are ruining the game.

    Who then is worse than Freddy? Doctor and Ring are the most obvious killers. If you don't play the condemn/no hook game then Ring is a worse version of freddy. Like legion she gets the first hit easy and then is in an even worse position. Since we are on the topic - Legion with Iri button and Julie's mixtape is crazy strong. A lot of people say : legion sucks. Again I'll say I could beat Otz or True on "the Game" if they play best doctor build and I play best legion build. Clown with no pinky is worse than freddy but Clown has the option for "Maximum effort".

    Largely speaking Wraith is probably worse than freddy on most of the maps. Sometimes I play wraith but if I do you can bet I have purple move speed and purple aura vision. Freddy probably just needs to have some decent addon choices and he would be "ok".

    No offense, but challenge accepted. MM is nowhere near Doctor. Not even in the same dimension. Doctor has a chance to really play around strong loops and guarantee hits where Michael can do what exactly? Ahh, yes. Stalking. Stalking until he reaches tier 3, which will not help him in loops. In the right hands Doctor can get very oppressive to the part where latency makes little to no difference. He also has some great addons to help him.

    I'd argue that Otz might not be the best example to make Doctor truly shine. He is a very good player in general and no doubt quite good with Doctor as well but he makes mistakes that someone who mains this killer simply doesn't. He could control the survivors movements so much better by simply pushing them away from certain structures with the shock and there is also room for improvement when it comes to him managing tier 3. It's a bit like watching an insane Clown main and comparing them with Otz. Both are good but one is just better.

    Wraith isn't this bad either. He struggles with maps, yes but predropping is completely useless against him and his extra speed while cloaked is a big deal. His anti-loop can sometimes (admittedly on very rare occasion) guarentee hits as well.

    I'd put Freddy down there with Trapper right now. Even Myers can at least some times get dangerous because of tier 3. But Freddy? Well, he has a teleport, I'll give him that. But that one takes forever to charge and channel. He has a side gimmick that is more of a detriment to him than an addition. Survivors that are awake are immune to his already weak anti-loop. It's half of what Clown has and even he sometimes struggles in chase. Freddy's addons are horrible as well. The paint brush isn't bad and the masterpiece is ok as well but the rest is just worthless. With the nerf to his dream pallets even the one niche where they could be utilized is gone.

  • DBDVulture DBDVulture

    @Xernoton said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338307#Comment_3338307

    No offense, but challenge accepted. MM is nowhere near Doctor. Not even in the same dimension. Doctor has a chance to really play around strong loops and guarantee hits where Michael can do what exactly? Ahh, yes. Stalking. Stalking until he reaches tier 3, which will not help him in loops. In the right hands Doctor can get very oppressive to the part where latency makes little to no difference. He also has some great addons to help him.

    I'd argue that Otz might not be the best example to make Doctor truly shine. He is a very good player in general and no doubt quite good with Doctor as well but he makes mistakes that someone who mains this killer simply doesn't. He could control the survivors movements so much better by simply pushing them away from certain structures with the shock and there is also room for improvement when it comes to him managing tier 3. It's a bit like watching an insane Clown main and comparing them with Otz. Both are good but one is just better.

    Wraith isn't this bad either. He struggles with maps, yes but predropping is completely useless against him and his extra speed while cloaked is a big deal. His anti-loop can sometimes (admittedly on very rare occasion) guarentee hits as well.

    I'd put Freddy down there with Trapper right now. Even Myers can at least some times get dangerous because of tier 3. But Freddy? Well, he has a teleport, I'll give him that. But that one takes forever to charge and channel. He has a side gimmick that is more of a detriment to him than an addition. Survivors that are awake are immune to his already weak anti-loop. It's half of what Clown has and even he sometimes struggles in chase. Freddy's addons are horrible as well. The paint brush isn't bad and the masterpiece is ok as well but the rest is just worthless. With the nerf to his dream pallets even the one niche where they could be utilized is gone.

    -"challenge accepted. MM is nowhere near Doctor. Not even in the same dimension."

    I think you're just not used to seeing anyone play michael well. Otz for example doesn't even use Bamboozle which is madness. And he never brings one of the two addons that makes the killer "not suck". He loves to bring the shards which in my opinion are nearly worthless. Instead he brings coup which quite honestly is just not needed because MM already has a longer lunge and most people can't account for the difference. A long time ago I played MM for two years straight so I know a thing or two about this killer.


    Now to be fair MM just got nerfed by the 6.1X update that trashed Bamboozle and Fire up not stacking with his power vault. This killer just didn't need any nerfs. FIre up used to be the ultra secret best perk on him. It made everyone assume you were using things like lightborn and brutal strength.

    Rules would basically be someting like : killer picks map no other offerings (killer hosts). No character/item/perk repeats. Survivors must use the same build/items for both rounds.

    The survivors must also not know the identity of either killer. It would not be fair for example if someone used calm spirit knowing it would help vs doctor.


    -"I'd argue that Otz might not be the best example to make Doctor truly shine."

    Otz typically runs a goofy build on doctor but is actually quite proud of how he plays this killer. At some point in the last 3 months or so he had a high kill streak and it was one of the times he would camp and tunnel aggressively to protect his streak at the start of a game.


    -"He is a very good player in general and no doubt quite good with Doctor as well but he makes mistakes that someone who mains this killer simply doesn't."

    This I will agree too as both he and literally every streamer I watch except maybe Bronx play Nemesis with less than full understanding. Nemesis plays a lot like Demo so it makes sense that Bronx being a demo main has no trouble transitioning to his true main: Nemesis. At the end of the day Otz is an entertainer so if he makes a goofy play as part of the show there's going to be a payout. He either can laugh it off or make a clip for the highlight reel with an amazing play.

    I think both Otz and True can play Doc with near perfect understanding of when to shock at loops. They are very good at doing fakes but there comes a point where doctor is just ourclassed.


    Almost nobody for example realizes that if you are chasing a survivor around a building wall with Nemesis the whip attack is almost unavoidable unless someone has perfect frame dodging if the whip strafe is outside to inside. If you try the same attack with an inside to outside whip drag then the survivor can very easily turn out to avoid the whip. I see about one successful dodge in 100 of outside to inside dodges against building walls.

  • M1_gamer M1_gamer

    @TerraEsram said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338199#Comment_3338199

    No problem, so just like always, Basic question of rights, surprising then that, with what is happening with Netflix, and that Bubba almost suffered the same fate, that Freddy was not ejected from the roster by the rights holders

    I just wonder how they could then at first, have the rights, and what caused the dispute

    yea rights are a pain. lets hope bhvr and the holders can foarm a better relationship so we can get some freddy content.

    @Snowflake_Syndrome said:

    Any comment on this from BHVR would be great. Was hoping to see this thread with a big red tab bar. But nope.

    yea would love to see bhvr talk about the neglected characters of the game.

    @kingcarl2012 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363595/freddy-is-in-such-a-sad-state-atm

    There are several things I would like to see done with Freddy. Outside of the gameplay stuff, getting some Robert Englund voice lines would be amazing.

    1. Ability to have both snares and pallets at same time.

    2. He needs a full add on pass again.

    3. His teleport has 2 major issues, his best add on is the one that makes everyone start asleep, partly because his teleport charges sooo slow at the start of the match, so I would make his initial charge faster.

    The other issue is his teleport gets weaker as he is losing the game, I would suggest that he be allowed to teleport to completed gens and when he does he should come out with an undetectable effect, nothing crazy like 4-5 seconds, this could be really cool for ambushing a gen from another gen, or ambushing at a boon near a completed gen.

    4. Sleep is somewhat lackluster. Alarm clocks should only give immunity to falling asleep over time, not when getting hit by Freddy. I also think he should get some base effects/add ons like the ones that doctor has for madness but for sleeping survivors, to still incentivize waking up.

    agreed. im down for anything to make him more interesting.

    @yauniqua said:

    were you around for freddy-pop or forever freddy???????

    yup, been there since og freddy. loved it lol

    @Star99er said:

    Idk about his basekit but they should definitely buff/rework some of his add-ons. Like why is one of his ultra-rare add-ons just blocking the exit gate for a measly 15 seconds? 💀

    that made me giggle a bit lol but yea he really needs one.

    @appleas said:

    Ironically, the bug whereby dropping dream pallets recharged Spirit Fury was an interesting idea. That way Survivors would be much more wary of dropping pallets and it would buff pallet Freddy’s chase potential.

    For the sake of balance, dropping a dream pallet could just recharge half a charge on Spirit Fury so 4 dream pallets dropped or 2 normal pallets being broken would be required for one use of Spirit Fury

    that bug was fun ngl.

    @Wylrin said:

    Any time I think about the state Freddy's in, I take a moment to remind myself that this is 2010 remake Freddy that is being tortured and not the original 1984 Freddy, which is enough to get a chuckle out of me, I'll admit. X3

    In all seriousness, though, I agree that Freddy needs... something. I don't pretend to know what that something should be, but he definitely needs something.

    People have already touched on his addons being underwhelming, to put it mildly, and I definitely agree. Though there are some neat things you can do. Pair Surveillance with Outdoor Rope and you basically become a gen jockey sonar detector... assuming anyone's actually in the dream world.

    Why are the alarm clocks even a thing? Even if they didn't grant the 30 second immunity to Freddy's power, why should it be so easy to escape the dream world? Against a horror icon that amplifies his lethality by keeping you asleep, being able to wake up by yoinking a magic clock just sounds silly. I really like the mechanic of the wake up action taking longer and longer each time. If the clocks weren't a thing, that might actually come into play. Every time someone wakes you up, it becomes progressively more and more of a struggle to escape the place that's trying to kill you. I feel like that would fit thematically, a never-ending nightmare that, while possible to escape, is increasingly more and more difficult to as Freddy tightens his hold on you.

    I honestly preferred the original Freddy power over the current one. I don't claim to know what's best for Freddy, but if he returned to his original state with tweaks to improve his performance in modern Dead by Daylight, I'd be ecstatic.

    Speaking of original Freddy's power from strictly a lore perspective and not a gameplay one, everything Freddy did just made sense. Pulling survivors into the dream world manually gave their transition into the nightmarish landscape more meaning. It wasn't just a side effect of smacking a survivor, it was its own action that ended up serving multiple purposes once they succumbed to sleep. Being able to see survivors outside of his direct area of influence also made perfect sense. You're in his world. He's going to be very much attuned to what's going on in his own plane. It also gives Freddy a sort of feeling of power. If you're a survivor and escaped a chase with Freddy, it can be generally understood that he knows where you are, he knows everything. It gave the impression - real or not - that if you escaped Freddy, it was because he was playing with you and was coming for you later. Of course, from a gameplay perspective we know that Freddy might just have other priorities right at that moment. But just the feel of "escaping" him knowing full well that escape from his immediate vicinity does not mean escape from the Nightmare was something I felt was unique.

    I could go on and on, but I feel like anything else I'd have to add would just be reiterating what's been discussed at length already.

    yea fair. i did like playing as old freddy since i felt like freddy more then than now.

    @Killing_Time said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337380#Comment_3337380

    Can you blame them? Look at what they've done to a horror icon. He's a joke!

    "look how they massacured our dream demon"

  • Witchubtet Witchubtet

    I feel like Freddy suffers from being a M1 killer with huge potential but lacks creativity. His dream pallets are amazing at destroying survivors flow and his teleport is a good map traversal. It’s just his add-ons are some of the worst. Gen noise and footstep noise? Garbage. If he had some amazing information and disabling add-ons he’d feel amazing. Maybe using his power to block windows he goes through like bamboozle.

  • yauniqua yauniqua

    Did. you. ever. play. FOREVER FREDDY. or. FREDDY POP?

    Dont skirt around my question.

  • Marik1987 Marik1987

    I think we all agree that Freddy need something, right?

    I would rather have a killer with less Killrate in total, but more fun and higher skill ceiling, so that good players can have really good results and a good feeling.

  • ironblade ironblade

    I bought freddy and only played him once knowing full well that he's not good.

  • M1_gamer M1_gamer

    @Marik1987 said:

    I think we all agree that Freddy need something, right?

    I would rather have a killer with less Killrate in total, but more fun and higher skill ceiling, so that good players can have really good results and a good feeling.

    yea i think genraly everyone agrees he needs atleast a new add - on overhaul.

    @yauniqua said:

    Did. you. ever. play. FOREVER FREDDY. or. FREDDY POP?

    Dont skirt around my question.

    as i said before i was around during those periods but never played with those perks. i don't use slowdown of any sort and never will.

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