So still no nerfs to camping and tunneling with the new update
So the ptb patch notes just released, and sadly we are not getting any nerfs to camping or tunneling, yet again. These cheap and skillless strategies will continue to be way to effective for the little effort required, and survivors continue to be at the mercy of killers to not camp and tunnel.
I wonder how long BHVR is going to not address this issue. Killer queue times will continue to be problematic most likely, and understandibly so. Who wants to go against such cheap and unfun strategies?
Please, BHVR, do something against these strategies. Killers were buffed in numerous ways, and are more viable now in general. Now it's the survivors time to get something in return. You have to nerf camping and tunneling properly, so they aren't the go to easy way out strategies for killers anymore, now that killers have been buffed. It's ridiculous.
I do not know any other online game that has such cheap, unfun, and skillless strategies be so effective. Can't even think of anything that comes close to this. It's ridiculous.
I am really hyped about this new chapter, and can not wait to play Wesker. But the prospect of 10 minute killer queue times just to play Wesker really dampens my excitement to an extent.
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Well they kind of will have to if they ever want to go back to normal queue times for both roles.
You can not prevent camping and tunneling completely, but you can nerf those strategies enough so they aren't as effective as playing normally, and therefore discourage people from using those strategies.
Lmao how is this a bad thing? It simply discouarges camping. So no, it's not a problem when survivors don't have to play as risky to counterplay freaking camping? There is no other online vs game I can think of with such a cheap and pathetic strategy being so effective.
Two Honest questions incoming regarding to camping and tunneling
1) Do you believe that each survivor is entitled to three hooks per game?
2) Do you believe that each survivor, after being unhooked, is entitled to a reset in their game, meaning that after being unhooked, they should get some time to regroup and whatnot without having the killer come after them, since they were the last one the killer came after?
When has BHVR EVER not used perks to solve the issue? You act like this is something new for either side.
Don't like how kicking a gen does 0 damage and can be reverted with a simple tap that takes a nanosecond? Run Pop, but oh wait we're gonna nerf it when too many people start using it even though its (past tense) mandatory for certain Killers to be decent
Don't like getting hard-tunneled at 4 gens even when you're a good looper? Just slap on DS, but oh wait we're gonna nerf that when too many people figure out that it can also be used offensively
Don't like losing 2 gens in the first chase on an oversized map? Just run a full slowdown build instead of the interesting quirky perks that synergize with your Killer's kit, but oh wait we're gonna nerf those too when good players start stacking them even when they don't have to
Don't like going down immediately after getting unhooked? Just waste a perk slot by default for all of your matches by running BT, but oh wait we're gonna buff it while simultaneously encouraging you to replace it by making you get baskeit haste/endurance for a few seconds that can still easily be ignored by bodyblocking since there's still collision for some reason
They've always used perks and addons as bandaids to fix the foundation of the game's design/balance instead of fixing all of it directly because it takes way less effort and because they know most people will find a way to justify it no matter how cringe it can get
The game is balanced around the option of camping, and BHVR said proxy camping is fine. It is specifically facecamping that BHVR said they wanted to do something about.
BHVR still hasn't addressed the reasons why killers camp, and one of those reasons are survivors that use voice communication to tell each other where the killer is, so that the survivors can hide easier if the killer goes too far away from the hook. Proxy camping is a valid counterplay to survivors hiding.
I agree with the increase to the endurance effect you get on unhook being increased to ten seconds. But if you increase the hang time by another 20 seconds for each survivor, its nullifying the increased gen time and we are back at square one. I think what should happen is if a killer stays within 16 meters of a survivor and dosen't enter chase or leave the area after 5 seconds the hook state slows down. The effect will get weaker and weaker as each gen is done, until there is no longer a penalty to camping once the exits gates are powered. This way camping only becomes effective in the late game, which would at least make the games be more fun and discourage from camping early.
To an extent, yes, but it depends on how they play.
But there are easy nerfs to camping that wouldn't go so far. Increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds and removing hook grabs would be more than fair, now that killers got a bunch of baseline buffs. Then BHVR should also increase the haste and endurance effect duration from 5 to 10 seconds, and we are good to go. That would be a healthy, solid start to counterplay camping.
This might not make survivors "entitled" to be 3 hooked, and immune for a certain amount of time after being unhooked, but it would be a start. And it would balance queue times again. But honestly, the two points you raise here, would be good to get this game into an optimal state. Make sure survivors have a good chance of all surviving long enough before one survivor dies, but make the killer viable with such a playstyle.
Also, do you believe a killer should be entitled to a 3 or 4K just because they stood in frotnt of a hooked survivor and tunneled them out of the game?
Don’t worry maybe a hook rework will be here with the Nurse rework 😂
It 100% doesn't nullify the increased gen times. Gen times buy killer time to go for more chases, and chase survivors off of gens. How long a survivor can hang on a hook won't matter in that case.
In the case of a fair playing killer, the pressure to unhook survivors isn't really the time they can spend on a hook. But more the fact that you do not want two survivors hooked at the same time.
So no, giving survivors a bit more time to unhook another survivor won't nullify gen time increase, since killers have more time to work for more, additional hooks against survivors, no matter how fast the survivor on a hook will reach the next hook phase.
It really isn't anymore, not after the bunch of buffs killers received.
I understand that camping needs to be at least somewhat of an option, but it can still be made less effective without making the killer powerless in the scenarios where he needs to camp.
In most cases, a killer needs to camp when other survivors are nearby. But the killer can still spread damage among those survivors, despite the hook phase duration being increased from 60 to 70 seconds, and hook grabs being removed.
And no, survivors going for stealth shouldn't be a reason for killers to just sit by a hooked survivor and kill the survivor without any skill at all.
If people want queue times to go back to normal, nerfs to camping and tunneling will need to happen.
I don't know how you process that new "Kinship in a bottle" type perk and still say that camping isn't being addressed.
Because it's a band aid solution? That literally said in the last miss chapter they are reworking survivor's meta perks because they want to address problematic tactics (camping, tunneling) without people feeling forced to run certain builds.
Guess what? They are releasing a perk that in its current state will definitely become meta because it bandaids a problematic tactic.
There won't be any nerfs to camping or tunneling, the devs have already stated (numerous time's) that camping and tunneling are strategies, so no matter how annoying it may seem it's not going anywhere.
What "juicy killer queue times" Jesus H. Christ, do you even listen to yourself, the "killer queue times" arent longer or shorter than your average competitive multiplayer game, enough with this #########, im telling you man, survivor mains are one delusional bunch, sheesh.
What is a killer supposed to do if there is a hooked survivor, and the other survivors are hiding because they are waiting for the killer to move away from the hook? How is the killer realistically supposed to find these survivors that might be hiding on random parts of the map, and might be using voice communication to tell each other where the killer is?
And what is the killer supposed to do if one of the survivors is repair a generator way on the other side of the map, and is protected because they are using voice communication, and they know they can leave the generator and hide if one of their friends tells them the killer is moving towards their direction?
Voice communication and hiding is such a massive game advantage, and killers need the option of camping to counter it.
Reassurance ends camping.
Just make Reassurance a baseline ability that survivors can do. It uses a new action button anyway.
Campers suck. You're boring and you ruin the game for everyone.
These are easy.
1) Survivors and killers aren't entitled to anything. Survivors have three hook stages as resources to use/lose to off set the five gen resources the killer can use/lose. Survivors aren't entitled to being unhooked, but neither is the killer entitled to a kill just because there's a survivor on a hook at any stage.
2) I would prefer the game be balanced in a way that makes it possible for 5 players to participate in most of the game. If the most efficient way to play the game is to eliminate a player immediately, that's a core game problem. If the 'best' play for a killer is always 'never let the first survivor recover' rather than creating map/gen pressure, then that is also a core game issue. The answer here isn't that survivors are entitled to a reset, but killers should absolutely have a more meaningful choice in whether to focus on one person, or create map pressure. Currently, tunneling one person out early gives nearly infinite map pressure for the rest of the game, so there's no choice to be made here. The killer always sees removing a survivor by any means necessary as 'the best play', and that's a problem with the core game.
Nah. BT protects survivors after they are unhooked. Reassurance, well, reassures them, that their time hanging on the hook is affording the other survivors time to do stuffs.
Kinship, which is not DLC perk, can also be used to punish camping. It's just that nobody uses it because they'd rather the devs make camping completely unviable somehow.
For $14 US Dollars they’re selling a band aid to a problem they created. Kind of scummy if you ask me. Not Diablo Immortal levels of scummy but certainly at the every least borderline P2W.
While I'm not a huge fan of paid DLC being required for it, Reassurance is a damn strong anti-camping perk.
Camping (as in hard facecamping) needs a work, and the devs have expressed a desire to discourage it for a good while now - but it's a very tough issue to fix in a way that won't break the game.
How the hell do you nerf tunneling though?
Kinship is trash. If memory serves correctly, even you made a thread proposing changes similar or the exact same to I have in the past.
Other than the fact that kinship, also, is a bandaid solution, there's also to point out that it's basically useless in soloqueue, as there's no way whatsoever to tell your teammates that you have it. It's only good in swfs, and still niche, because it requires that specific person that has it to be on the hook and camped
I did. It doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt campers though.
All it takes is for people to start using it and then it will be common knowledge to all but the worst solos. It happened for Kindred, BT, Unbreakable, and all these other perks.
Just watch the new anti camping perk get nerfed into oblivion because killers can't easy 4k anymore and actually have to follow their own advice and git gud.
If u nerf tunneling more then it has already been. Then u need to nerf gen rushing. Oh wait they did, but then u need to nerf gen slowdown, oh wait they did, but then u need to buff the basekit of weak killers so they can play better, but wait they already did. If u dont want to get tunneled/camped hard then dont t bag/click. If u dont do that then u will be 60-70% less likely to grt tunneled or camped, unless ur talking about the end game when the killer doesnt have a choice (someone on hook 10-20m away from a 99d gate. Just please stop complaining about neccecary game mechanics, the devs are working hard to make the game more enjoyable for us all.
They're more concerned at the moment with making sure the next chapter goes live without too many problems. If they do look into balance issues, it will likely be in a mid-chapter patch, like the last one.
Isn't that what bhvr has done forever though? Like regardless of their varying strengths, boons have no real counterplay still. DS being created and bunch of other stuff that happened before I even started playing dbd