Endgame BT/DS/DH stack - Opinions/Feelings?
Seeing the old NOED discussion come around again has made me wonder how people 'feel' about 'losing' kills in the endgame to stacked BT/DS/DH plays.
I'm always a bit torn, personally, as games that have players with DS up by the end are usually ones that I decided to play chill/not tunnel and everyone has a decent score - Players will often say 'GGWP' or w/e if they escape on their last hook due to DS or BT or DH.
Whereas the games where I identify someone as 'really' good (compared to me, that's pretty easy T_T) and remove them ASAP (could be tunneling/camping, could just be prioritizing them over other people) usually results in "La Meta" being their build and them 'feeling' like their game was ruined (while I walk away with 3-4k) because their obvious build was obvious and I didn't feel like dealing with it.
What are YOUR thoughts/feelings on chaining 2(+) second chance perks (+possible bodyblocking, I suppose) in the endgame?
Comments
I see it as an inherent risk that comes with tunneling in any situation. I'm content to trade hooks in the endgame because I'm not risking DS/BT and I'm giving them another chance to mess up the unhook if they try it again. If it's Deliverance/DS/Unbreakable/Sprint Burst, then yeah, that's a straight up god build and it's tougher to play around
It's too strong. It leads to situations where no matter what you do as killer, save for one or two specific killers, all the survivors are guaranteed to get out. They might not, but they'd have to royally mess up for that to happen.
The killer had to make it all the way to endgame with 4 survivors alive for that to happen. So that's pretty much on them.
If you are playing a killer without a 1 shot and no endgame perks, getting 4 man outed is always the risk you take by playing poorly. I would not complain about hitting endgame when I stacked early / midgame perks and failed.
endgame as is is already just a waste of time most of times, at best you could trade bunch of hooks but that's it.
If it happens then it happens... It sucks but if I don't get DS out of the way then I get GGEZ from Survivors but if I get DS'd then I called a Tunneler
As for BT well IDK... if I hit that Survivor then I'm called a Tunneler If I don't then it's GGEZ
As for DH that depend on if they are close to the exit gate (either opened or 99%) then it's GGEZ if not then I get BHVR'd and GGEZ
So yea... it's hard to deal with but if the Survivors pull it off then yea GG
You can't win if its EGC and you are up against a decent team and 3+ are alive unless you have the ability to one shot down. The person on hook will be protected via BT and will body block the unhooker. Typically the speed boost from getting hit + DH/exahustion will be more than enough to get them to a gate from any point on the map and both gates will be 99%'d. The other survivors will also be trying to get in your way. If you are playing an extreme mobility killer/they move into a dead zone you have a chance otherwise it's basically a guaranteed escape. This is without even considering DS which I don't think is that good since the nerf. All you need for this is BT + smart plays on the survivor side and everyone bring an exhaustion perk.
So you think a killer having 4 survivors alive in endgame is always a result of them playing poorly? And that they should be forced to camp, tunnel, slug, and/or use an instadown killer instead, and that's "playing well"? Also, they're not allowed to complain when they lose?
Well it depends on playstyle but generally if you aren't cycling between the vunerable survivors (the ones who've been hooked) and are instead taking any hook you get then subjectively you could say that's playing poorly but it's a playstyle thing.
Playing 'poorly' isn't how I would describe it myself, it's a bit unfair but it's def something that would make sense for someone to say
If 1 survivor isn't dead by the last gen getting done I'd say it's on the survivors to mess up from that point on, really.
Never been a fan of the concept of body blocking either for survivor or killer. Running behind someone for a protection hit yes, but standing in a doorway, at a pallet, under a hook to block is a dumb mechanic but one which is very frequently used by both sides.
I find it funny that we can determine an early/mid/end game in a game that only lasts 5-6 minutes at most lol
If a survivor brought DS and held onto it until the end game and they get the chance to use it I see nothing wrong with that. Same goes for a survivor who brings BT with the intent to save someone else, that's fair imo because they brought that perk to help someone else rather than all selfish perks. And finally DH, this one is a bit harder to justify since it undoubtedly feels like BS to lose a hit to but it is a valid exhaustion perk that is in the game so again, if they brought it they can use it.
Just like how killer can bring strong perks of their own. If end game scenarios like this have you down I think your best bet would be to use No Way Out or maybe even more end game perks that make EGC significantly more difficult/amp up pressure on survivors. I hate NOED but heck even that is completely valid too. I use early and mid game stall perks personally but this is mostly because I don't have things like No Way Out and Bloodwarden but from my personal survivor experiences, No Way Out is incredibly painful to deal with and very effective. Also shout-out to Save The Best For Last, it makes camping in those situations into wins for you as you can much more easily trade with the reduced attack cooldown.
The problem with this is that there is literally zero killer perks comparable to the ones described. Can you imagine an Anti BT? "When a survivor safely unhooks another survivor, they are reduced to 50% move-speed for x seconds". Reverse DS? If a survivor touches a gen before being healed to full they are stunned for 20 seconds? Maybe a reverse DH? Coup De grau on a 45 second cooldown. Press ctrl to extend lunge range on your next M1.
Well it's pretty simple how I determine it. Perks that work straight off the bat are early game. Corrupt, Whispers, Lethal Pursuer, Ruin, etc.
Perks that work once you get a hook are mid-game. Pop, Pain Resonance, Dead Mans Switch, etc.
Perks that work once all the gens are done are lategame. NOED, NWO, Rancor, etc.
😂🤣
Have BT mean survivors don't have collision so they can't use their 12 seconds of invincibility alongside DS to prevent you from trying to not tunnel and I'd be a lot more okay with it than I currently am.
Still advocate for that choice restriction system tho