a fair NOED nerf?
Personally, i don't think NOED needs to be changed at all, but I still came up with an idea and I'm curious what you guys think:
NOED is only active on people who didn't hit the second hook stage. That's all, thx for coming to my TED talk
Comments
How about we talk about a NOED buff instead?
Doesn´t sound fair, that survivors can eliminate the perk before it even spawns. More so with Boons that override the NOED mechanic.
NOED is fine.
NOED shouldn't be a Hex Perk. That way it might finally move the game slightly away from it's survivor bias.
You can't honestly tell me that NOED is fair for Solo's
Of course it is fair.
The only "fair" nerf I can come up with is that survivors will get cursed and exposed as soon as the last generator is completed
Oh? Is it?
Cleansing 4/5 totems and still being hit by one of the strongest effects in the game is fair?
Honestly, if you say yes. I have zero interest in continuing this conversation with someone that irrational.
Yes.
Do Bones
So just to get this into perspective. Its a unbearable task for a solo survivor to cleanse 4/5 totems, but cleansing 5+ boons is totally fine for killers?
Please don´t pretend like the solo survivor HAS to do everything. Because there are 3 more, that can also do bones.
Exactly. Solo survivor is so easy. You shouldn't even get hit once in endgame anyway.
Oh, I do. And I actually took down some stats for around 24 games. Want to see?
hex totem are powerful ( not all of these ) so that’s okay for being destroy, especially for noed …. Because survivor only know noed existence after an survivor insta down.
boon are strong too but can be destroy in 2 seconds by the killer.
So, nope, don’t take this mechanics arguments.
however, noed could have better buff, like …. An speed boost buff
You've seen me around. I was one of the first people to say Boons were going to be an issue and I stand wholeheartedly by that. Boons are a huge issue.
That doesn't mean I don't recognize that NOED is also a very unhealthy perk. In my experience, in my games, all 5 totems are done extremely rarely. It almost never happens.
NOED should give you instant downs per remaining Dull Totem. Survivors didn't do any totems? 5 instant downs, they deserve it. They did 4? One instant down, you still get pressure or a Kill depending on who it is.
As of this moment, NOED is basically useless against SWF but extremely good against Solo's. Does that not seem to be an unhealthy design? Should we not want it changed into something more healthy and usable?
I play in solo Q alot and you know how many times I had to worry about NoEd....out of 20 games only 6 of them resulted in NoEd activating. Do bones just leave enough for anyone who has a Boon. NoEd is a very fair Perk. Only reason anyone who be mad at it is because the 4 survivors didn't either A) Do Bones or B) Bless Totems and Do Bones. I mean come on its 4 on 1. Just bring a map or Small Game and your all set.
Your carefully selected stats from your small sample of carefully selected games. Sure, why not.
I didn't actually.
They are pretty unbiased and are a representation of 24 Solo Games. I miscounted and I thought my 24th was my 25th :(
I will say what I said when I used to argue over why DS should be nerfed.
If a perk changes your style of play in order to directly counter it without any proof of said perk being in play, something is wrong. The real reason people don't want NOED to be changed is because it would be a nerf to Killers, which I agree, we shouldn't be doing right now.
How many times was NOED in the trial? How many times did it activate when it was present? How many times was it not present?
Out of curiosity what does the "proc" stand for?
It means activated, my apologies.
There was one game where NOED activated, but it was cleansed immediately because someone was cleansing the Dull as it changed into a Hex.
So only 10/25 games resulted in 3 or 4k. Seems fair to me
The fact that Noed itself can turn a 1k into a 4k without an effort, being able to remove it before it activates is nothing but fair
Oh, no. I'm ######### that's not up for debate.
Look at how many totems were cleansed on average, please. That was what the experiment was about.
I was curious to see how many totems usually got cleansed. MMR is so inconsistent I wouldn't rely on Kill Rates.
Cleansing a totem is not difficult.
Making sure in soloq that all 5 are cleansed is the difficult part. Organizing a search in soloq for that last totem is the difficult part. There is no communication to tell which areas were cleaned. So it is a lot harder for solo players to deal with it.
Getting hit by an unexpected NoED is the unfair part. Getting hit by NoED after you cleaned some totems is the unfair part.
But it seems like you don't want to understand this for some reason. Also why are you mixing boons into this? If you think they are unfair start a separate thread about it. But you saying that boons are unfair therefore NoED is also fine proves my point and you also admit that NoED is not good in it's current state and needs a rework.
Those 20 times it was always a threat. But when I play solo Q I always expect NOED. When I always expect it I'm never surprised when it does happen
The main change to NOED I'd like to see to help solos is that if you cleansed 2+ totems your just immune to NOED's expose.
However the killer gets to see on the HUD which survivors are expose and which ones aren't.
It would encourage people to do bone as not doing bones is what makes you vulnerable to it while giving solos a way to get around NOED regardless of their teammates ignoring bones.
But your point was NOED is unfair. Unfortunately your stats don't support that. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. Just that I don't consider myself a great survivor and even I don't suffer from NOED too much.
I think actually it shows it would benefit from a buff.
How would you buff it?
I think that'd only be masking the issue.
Most Solo Q games do not have time to do 5 totems. If there's one next to a gen? Sure, most people will knock it out, but almost nobody can afford to go running around the map looking for one. It's 70 seconds off of gens at base, not including travel distance or the Killer interrupting you.
I don't think NOED can be salvaged in it's current state. It's useless against SWF, but too good against Solo's. Nerf it? Way too weak against SWF. Buff it? Way too good against Solo Q.
I think it would be better to scrap it and give Killer's a new perk of equal power.
It is.
My stats do support that. Out of 24 games, how many times did we cleanse all 5 totems?
Expecting it doesn't mean it's okay.
I expected to get hit by Old DS. It sure wasn't fair tho.
NOED has always only punished lazy survivors that only push gens. Survivors are somehow allergic to do bones. Even when the killer isn´t pressuring and has like 2 hooks by the time the gates are powered.
When they then get hit by NOED, it es entirely their own fault. You can´t tell me that survivors can´t take 14 seconds to cleanse a dull totem when they are not being chased. Small Game really helps with that. It has a totem counter and people should really consider changing their loadout, if they keep having problems with NOED.
I remember a particular match, when old Undying was still a thing, where i cleansed 5 hex totems alone. While my teammates took turn on the hook (they farmed each other). Then after the match, they complained how OP Undying Ruin is, when they didn´t even touch a gen.
In resumen: do bones and ask your teammates before the match, to also do them.
Why does a different logic apply to Boons? They can be relit as long as the survivor with the perk is alive and there are still totems around.
The fact that survivors can repair all gens by the time the killer gets his third hook is fair?
NOED doesn´t magically drop all 4 survivors to the floor. He still needs to find and hit them.
Equip Small Game (totem counter) or Detectives Hunch (shows you chests, gens and totems on the map). All you problems with NOED will vanish.
I already replied to you why it is unfair, but you seem to ignore that message. and still pushing this "how easy it is to do bones".
Ask your teammates before match? Most people don't even read it ignore those messages. And if they are on console they won't even see the messages.
Sure... maybe you are a super awesome survivor who repairs gen, cleanses a totem and even heals another survivor all at the same time while also looping the killer. But for the rest of us solo players noed is extremely bad and unfair as I described in my comment earlier.
I don´t ignore you. In fact i posted a response with a solution on how to find those pesky totems.
The game gives survivors all the tools to get rid of NOED before it even spawns. But refusing to use them and then complain about the outcome is just lazy.
I usually end a match with more points than the killer. Because i cleanse a totem when i see one, when i am being chased, i make a mental not that there is one. But just doing gens and ignoring totems will get you nowhere.
Yeah... Bring small game for NoED, DS and BT for camper tunnelers, etc etc. Needing to bring a perk to be able to counter an unfair element of the game is not a good solution.
No Hex required.
I do, in fact, bring Small Game. I get to count how most people don't do totems in Solo Q.
I'm currently gathering more data to back this up. I have played another 50-ish games and I'm aiming to get to 200.
If the Survivors are winning, sure, they should be doing totems. Zero reason not to. But if they aren't, if it's 6 hooks and 3 gens, they literally do not have time.
Why don't you want it changed into something more useful? Is it just because it would be a nerf to Killers?
There is no point in continuing this discussion. Enjoy you are the awesome survivor who handles everything.
Killers are currently forced to take several gen slowdown perks, because otherwise the match ends in 5 minutes or less.
My loadout is: WGLF, BT, Bond and whatever i feel like, but usually something that helps with a daily or archives. Unless i have a "stun the killer" mission, i won´t use DS.
So, you think old Object of Obsession was a fair perk? Because we know the Kill Rates for people who used OoO were through the roof.
Likewise, Pig's Kill Rate is very high. Should we nerf Pig into the ground because she has a 60% Kill Rate?
No, of course not. Because there is nuance.
I do not believe you are intending to discuss this in good faith, mostly because of your "buff" idea. So I'm done speaking to someone who isn't going to take anything seriously.
Have a good one.
The surprising part is, i woulnd´t advise killers to use NOED. Because i find that it skews with the kill rate data the devs rely on.
But i understand when killers use it. As of right now, gens are going incredible fast. In most of my survivor matches, 2 or 3 gens are done by the time the killer gets his first hook. To put this in perspective. Thats like starting the match with 1 less survivor.
Refusing to do bones and then complain about NOED is the exact same reason why Undying was nerfed. Which in hinsight, was a mistake.
Is it annoying when the teammates don´t do anything? Sure! Especially when you equip Bond, you´ll marble at your teammates that sit afk in a corner. But i don´t ask for killer nerfs, just because i have bad teammates.
I'm taking more stats like I said.
Maybe I'll equip NOED on my Killer's and record how often it activates. Would you be interested in seeing that?
I mean, i could send you screenshots to prove my point. But i doubt you would change your playstyle.
Just see the escape as a 5000 bloodpoint bonus. Because at the end of the day, thats all it is.
Agreed we should end the debate. Anyone who uses the "whataboutery" argument has already lost.
It is irrelevant what I think about Pig and OOO (be happy to talk about those separately) My opinion on NOED (the source of the discussion) remains, based on my experiences, and stats provided, are it is fine.
The reason for my buff idea was a counter to how survivor sided the game is atm.
I enjoyed that debate. Sorry you feel the need to end it because we disagree.
I´m personally not a fan of equipping NOED. But i suspect that NOED would activate in (almost) all matches that reach the endgame.
That is not why I ended it.