So about the hit validation at pallets... (pallet campers)

scachich

(this is not a rant, i have been able to deal with pallet campers by using multiple methods)

Since this directly buffs camping pallets and allows the survivors to mess their timing at the pallet and still get a free escape... which i belive was brought in the first place because a few patches before it was clearly impossible to stun the killer with a pallet (you used it and they didnt get stunned and hit you anyway), along with the spirit fury bug, however i think that this does NOT fix the problem, and also creates another one....

Survivor messed up the timing and you get a hit? too bad!, we now cancel that hit because f*ck killers!, AND you can even hit then in the same side as they're in and the hit gets canceled anyway... truly a broken feature, now most survivor in my lobbies will just:

-Loop the pallet until i reach close to then, wait at the other side so i can get stunned but i respect it and stare at then and they just drop it , do this for like all the pallets in the map and they ALL DIE! because one person spent all the pallets by camping then, teach survivors to loop pallets, not to camp then.

not to mention the only way to effectively stop this is to bring enduring and spirit fury (they will loop it properly and pre-drop it).

-i suggest they would have to either improve they servers so the validation actually counts they as hit or not when its supposed to be.

-get rid of it, it just causes more problems than it solves.

My whole issue comes from me playing other killers, which im currently trying to learn, and its quite difficult to proplerly learn to play loops if all the survivor does is CAMP the pallet, the pallet should be a barrier between the killer and the survivor which will at most give then more time to properly play the chase and decide what to do next in the chase, not a free braindead escape at all times which will prevent 90% of hits.

what do you, fellow killer and survivors think of this?, should it be changed?

Aven_Fallen

They did not mess up the timing. It only looks like that on your end, but the Server registered the Stun and not your hit, so you will get stunned without receiving the Hit.

VioletCrimes

The pallets sometimes have a bug where I can’t throw them, even if I’m standing in range and pushing the button. So yes, pallets can be abused, but there are issues on both ends with it.

ThanksForDaily

Killers used to take bs hits and downs on pallets all these years.

That's why they all are baseball players.

Get used the new reality.

scachich

@Aven_Fallen said:

They did not mess up the timing. It only looks like that on your end, but the Server registered the Stun and not your hit, so you will get stunned without receiving the Hit.

so that brings us to another problem, match unsycn

EntitySpawn

I just wish I knew what actually made the decision, I upgraded my wifi (wired) hit a 32ping and still get rollback when on my screen I clearly got the hit way before.

Like seriously are the people I'm versing next door to the servers? Feel theres more to it than just connection

scachich

@Aven_Fallen said:

They did not mess up the timing. It only looks like that on your end, but the Server registered the Stun and not your hit, so you will get stunned without receiving the Hit.

then make it so i also get to know did they not mess it, insteand of then screaming as they got hit.

MadLordJack

@Aven_Fallen said:

They did not mess up the timing. It only looks like that on your end, but the Server registered the Stun and not your hit, so you will get stunned without receiving the Hit.

The problem is that it's too generous. It no longer registers the sidestep shuffle - because the system doesn't react fast enough, survivors see killers walking into pallets, while killers get stunned from (depending on how bad the survivors connection is) upwards of a metre away because they changed direction but the server didn't care. Which means that unless both killer and survivor have low ping, and I mean unrealistically low, killers are now faced with a lose-lose situation that honestly never existed for survivors (because if you were getting hit through stuns you could just throw the pallet early).

Mercês

See this.

@Mercês said:

"Stun validation has been added to the hit validator. If a Killer has a pending stun on the server, the server will reject the hit. This will be most noticeably in situations such as a Killer who is attacking at the same time a survivor is throwing a pallet, and it should reduce instances where survivors appear to take damage after stunning a Killer."

I work in the field, so let me explain on a technical level why it looks so weird but why this change is necessary.

The most awkward situations happen when:

-----------------------

FIRST SCENARIO. KILLER HAS A LOW PING, BUT ATTACKS ALMOST AT THE SAME TIME.

(*) The server queue look like this.

[Survivor A] [13:32:12:14] [Pallet drop] [Location X] (*1)
(Outcome) [Killer] [Status update] [Stun]
[Killer] [13:32:12:18] [Hit register] [Survivor A] (*2)

I'm supposing that killer's ping is 20ms, while survivors' is 30ms.

(*) The survivor perspective look like this.

[Survivor] [13:32:11:44] [Pallet drop] [Location X] 

Note that survivor (in real time) dropped the pallet at [13:32:11:44], with the 30ms delay, the server received that the Survivor dropped the pallet at [13:32:12:14] (*1).

(*) The killer queue look like this.

[Killer] [13:32:11:58] [Hit register] [Survivor A] 
[Survivor] [13:32:12:48] [Pallet drop] [Location X] 

Note that the killer hit the survivor at [13:32:11:28], with the 20ms delay, the server received that the killer hit the survivor at [13:32:12:18] (*2).

In the other hand, notice that the killer received that the pallet was dropped at [13:32:12:48], 50ms after the actual drop, because the server has to receive this input from the survivor (+30ms), and send to the killer(+20ms).

Notice that more extreme scenarios can happen if the killer has a higher ping than survivor but hits before the stun.

As you can see, there's no doubt that the survivor dropped the pallet early. Mathematically, this awkward situation will always happen when action_registered(survivor's clock + survivor's latency) < action_registered(killer's clock + killer's latency). As there's no doubt that the survivor dropped the pallet early than it received the attack (in real life time), It's safe to say that (*2) can be safely removed from the server's queue, since it doesn't make sense in our real life time. Unfortunately, doesn't make sense on killer's perspective.

-----------------------

SECOND SCENARIO. KILLER HAS A HIGH PING, BUT HITS BEFORE THE PALLET DROP.

(*) The server queue look like this.

[Survivor A] [13:32:12:14] [Pallet drop] [Location X] (*1)
(Outcome) [Killer] [Status update] [Stun]
[Killer] [13:32:12:18] [Hit register] [Survivor A] (*2)

I'm supposing that killer's ping is 60ms, while survivors' is 30ms.

(*) The survivor perspective look like this.

[Survivor] [13:32:11:44] [Pallet drop] [Location X] 

Note that survivor (in real time) dropped the pallet at [13:32:11:44], with the 30ms delay, the server received that the Survivor dropped the pallet at [13:32:12:14] (*1).

(*) The killer queue look like this.

[Killer] [13:32:11:58] [Hit register] [Survivor A] 
[Survivor] [13:32:12:34] [Pallet drop] [Location X] 

Note that the killer hit the survivor at [13:32:11:58], with the 60ms delay, the server received that the killer hit the survivor at [13:32:12:18] (*2).

In the other hand, notice that the killer received that the pallet was dropped at [13:32:12:34], 90ms after the actual drop, because the server has to receive this input from the survivor (+30ms), and send to the killer(+60ms).

This second scenario is the unfortunate one. But as you can see, if the killer has such a high latency, the survivor didn't had time to react the attack, or the animation, because it didn't even appeared on their screen because wasn't processed in the server yet. It's the kind of situation that the pallet is fully dropped and you suddenly get down. Makes no sense from the survivor's perspective.

-----------------------

People comment and upvote so more people can understand a little more about this. If your hit gets negleted by the server (1) you got stunned before, in real life time (2) you need to call your provider to ask for a better connection, or blame DbD's team for a poor server location.

Shroompy

Yknow, if you got stunned and got the hit. You werent supposed to get the hit right? (at least most of the time)

Hits that werent fair arent given anymore, simple as that

ouroboros_world

Just watch otz nemesis streak, he got 3 fake hits in a row lol, you can’t even hug walls as killer anymore because how big the pallet hit box is as well. But what can do about this game on a outdated engine that make super man 64 look good lol

WeenieDog

-I suggest they would have to either improve they servers so the validation actually counts they as hit or not when its supposed to be

How do you know if your perspective is the right one?

Afius

Pallet camping? holding W? Can survivors do anything that doesn't tilt the killer?

Zozzy

@Aven_Fallen said:

They did not mess up the timing. It only looks like that on your end, but the Server registered the Stun and not your hit, so you will get stunned without receiving the Hit.

Yes... that demogorgon that clearly lunged to my side of the pallet and swiped through my body, only to teleport back to the other side and get stunned with no hit, was clearly me not messing up my timing and totally not the new safety pallet patch.

Zozzy

@EntitySpawn said:

I just wish I knew what actually made the decision, I upgraded my wifi (wired) hit a 32ping and still get rollback when on my screen I clearly got the hit way before.

Like seriously are the people I'm versing next door to the servers? Feel theres more to it than just connection

sub 20 ping and i get validated against people with disgustingly high ping. there is more at play but sympathisers refuse to acknowledge it. They will give you a post about code and timings but all it boils down to is the survivor sees something different on their client and the server takes that data and rejects everything else.

ThiccBudhha

@Afius said:

Pallet camping? holding W? Can survivors do anything that doesn't tilt the killer?

I do not mind if they want to camp the pallet. We should get a trade to punish their poor decision. Or, well, formerly poor decision. I guess nowadays it is the big brain strategy.

Aven_Fallen

@MadLordJack said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476256#Comment_2476256

The problem is that it's too generous. It no longer registers the sidestep shuffle - because the system doesn't react fast enough, survivors see killers walking into pallets, while killers get stunned from (depending on how bad the survivors connection is) upwards of a metre away because they changed direction but the server didn't care. Which means that unless both killer and survivor have low ping, and I mean unrealistically low, killers are now faced with a lose-lose situation that honestly never existed for survivors (because if you were getting hit through stuns you could just throw the pallet early).

@Zozzy said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476256#Comment_2476256

Yes... that demogorgon that clearly lunged to my side of the pallet and swiped through my body, only to teleport back to the other side and get stunned with no hit, was clearly me not messing up my timing and totally not the new safety pallet patch.

This happened already before the changed they validation method. It is not something new which just came up.

FengisKawaii

@Aven_Fallen said:

They did not mess up the timing. It only looks like that on your end, but the Server registered the Stun and not your hit, so you will get stunned without receiving the Hit.

That´s not entirely true though. With the current system, a hit does get registered but as long as there is a pending stun around it within a (very generous) timeframe, it gets rejected after the fact. That´s why there are phantom hits all over the place now.

MadLordJack

@Aven_Fallen said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476458#Comment_2476458

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476646#Comment_2476646

This happened already before the changed they validation method. It is not something new which just came up.

Actually, it really wasn't. Not to the extent it is now. It is actually guaranteed for me instead of just being a chance. Any m1 killer automatically gets Enduring thrown on because there is no way for me to hit pallet campers or avoid the stun.

HR_Helios

@ThanksForDaily said:

Killers used to take bs hits and downs on pallets all these years.

That's why they all are baseball players.

Get used the new reality.

We had a problem as survivors so let's push it onto the killers cause [BAD WORD] em

Hoodied

@ThanksForDaily said:

Killers used to take bs hits and downs on pallets all these years.

That's why they all are baseball players.

Get used the new reality.

This is a horrible idea

as this is literally just "Instead of fixing the problem, lets just shove the problem to someone else instead", the pallet hit reg also doesn't even work properly as I now just get hits where I 100% know it hits however I just get a middle finger instead

ThanksForDaily

@Hoodied said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2476308#Comment_2476308

This is a horrible idea

as this is literally just "Instead of fixing the problem, lets just shove the problem to someone else instead", the pallet hit reg also doesn't even work properly as I now just get hits where I 100% know it hits however I just get a middle finger instead

They didn't shove the problem to killers. All these hits were bs and unfair.

Now it's how supposed to be.

Seraphor

In every case where it appears to you that you got a hit, but it gets 'rolled back', every single instance of that happening, the survivor will not see themselves getting hit. That's why it gets rolled back.

So on the survivors screen, they timed it right, got the stun, and got away, perfect timing.

OnisEquinePhallus

@EntitySpawn said:

I just wish I knew what actually made the decision, I upgraded my wifi (wired) hit a 32ping and still get rollback when on my screen I clearly got the hit way before.

Like seriously are the people I'm versing next door to the servers? Feel theres more to it than just connection

Because it's not actually based on your ping at all.

Even if the server sees your hit first, it will still cancel it if it's followed up by a stun.

BVHR just phrased it that way to defer negative feedback. It was a lie -- which, y'know, if that shocks you, let me introduce you to literally a whole google doc of shadow nerfs and false patch information people have been documented. If BHVR thinks something will be to controversial, they just lie about it. I mean, it clearly works so...