4 Vaccines is too much free hits for survivors
These are my suggestions after hundreds of games on red ranks as Nemesis.
4 free hits + 4 free hits from vaccines is too much. Survivors are very efficient on red ranks and you usually don't have much time. Devs said Nemesis is Not good on red ranks. This is your buff. Make his tentacle become dangerous sooner by removing 2 vaccines so there is only 2 every game on the map. Purple -1 vaccine add-on should be reworked into something different as well.
Another idea: make Vaccine remove contamination temporary. Let's say for 1 minute. After that they become contaminated again so survivors have to actually think when to use it
Another idea: Make his iri add-on base kit so survivors become exposed after using the vaccine. For same reasons
Also fix his zombies. They suck
Comments
Im also a nemesis main, and really this isn't a problem to me. 4 Tentacle hits is EXTREMELY easy to achieve. Nemesis isn't meant to have an extremely powerful early game. Spend the early game like plague, getting as many hits as you can. 4 vaccines isn't a lot, and towards the end of the game you should be tier 3 and they can't protect themselves. Nemesis is in a spot where he isn't really that weak, but he can't be buffed without getting even more oppressive and annoying. Right now his gameplay is just m1 or if they perform an action you m2, that's it. If he is gonna get buffed, it should honestly just he a rework
As i said in another nemesis discusion.
I would like "infinite vaccines" BUT corruption do something if not cleaned, something like plage.
Lets say corruption give a debuff for survivors like X% slower action, or zombies track contaminated survivors or whatever. Point is contamination do something.
For example a Lab Table with green,red, blue herbs (just decoration), only infected survivors can use it to craft a vaccine.
With this your "chest addons" change chest for work table should work more times in a game.
4 hits + 4 hits is 8 already. 8 times survivors get speed boost without getting injured. that's also 20s of you just waiting for your cooldown. Even if 4 survivors are right in front of you with vaccines and giving you free hits you'll waste 20s. That's a lot. You can not allow to waste so much time early game against good survivors. Of course Nemesis is strong in Late game and my suggestion is for his late game to start earlier or requiring some skill to use vaccines for survivors
I don't think we need another Plague
Yeah and I'm saying now everything needs to be a skillfull addition or make something take skill. Why complicate his power to make a very small thing take more skill. It' already a time waster for the survivors as well. If they go to find a vaccine, that's a base atleast 10 seconds as an average low number. Then 4 seconds to open the crate, then about 3 seconds to use the vaccine. That is a minimum of around 17 seconds (which could vary to less or more depending on spawns or map) 20 seconds is a lot, and survivors have to waste that too, not to mention when zombies do work as well, that is passive slowdown on gens, they aren't meant for an actually strong attacking unit. Pay attention to gens and patrol and pressure them, don't stick on 1 survivor for too long. This is just basic high rank killer tips. Nemesis is pretty good at that, zombies help out as well as give information, and you use your tentacle as an infection and then leave. The skill use in vaccine is already there, if they use them all early game, then late game when you are at your strongest they don't have protection.
We're playing two different versions of dbd then. Magic land where you have time to waste all 4 vaccines before game ends
When i'm playing Nemesis, the 4 vaccines are usually used in maybe the first 2 minutes...he's best at spreading the pressure, meaning you have more time as survivors will typically waste it vaccinating early on, and by the time they've all used them, you're tier 3 and at this point, his power is incredibly strong. And the zombies always seem to buy me some time by pressuring gens I can't get to for me.
What does being infected by Nemesis even do? As a survivor getting hit by his tentacle and being infected often seems pointless. Most of the time you don't even need to use the vaccine to complete the objectives and escape.
Makes looping a little bit less safe.
Is looping essentially where you run round the edge of the map? I'm new to the community so still getting to know the terms here.
I think a better compromise, if we trully need a buff (Nemesis killers have been quite capable in my experience), would be infinite cures, like Plague, but you have to be cured to leave the map.
Just remove the free speed boost for infection and call it a day.
What rank are you at, maybe that is leading to different matches? I'm a rank 1 killer, and I can win most of my matches, besides the obvious swf map offering teams. If they don't use the vaccines then I don't see what is wrong, you have a strong m2 tool. If they do vaccinate, there is only 4 and with a quick m2 again, you can apply contamination again. Getting tentacle hits is really easy, if his power was hard to land or use, then yeah I could see the extra hit being a complaint, but right now he is really oppressive, and the moment you reach tier 2, you shred through pallets like crazy. Reaching tier 3 isn't even necessary, but once you do, you can get that little extra range to really destroy. Doing vaccines wastes their time, even if it is short time.
rank 1 europe. Almost 5k hrs killer main
Oh nice, then I don't know why you are having such a tough time. Nemesis is in a solid B tier spot, only struggles because he doesn't have map pressure but even then, his zombies can still give strong information so you can go pressure
B tier is weak. My suggestions will make him A at least
Your suggestions just make him more obnoxious and don't really make him better. Like the problem with him is the fact that he is just another extremely oppressive 1v1 oriented killer, while being weak in the 1v4. You don't make killers "better" by just making the killers able to kill you without counterplay much faster. That would be like changing deathslinger to have 2 shots before reloading so he can kill you faster without slowdown. That doesn't fix what is wrong with deathslinger. Make Nemesis zombies work better if you were to change his current kit at all. Some killers are fine where they are at though, not every killer needs to be spirit. After 5k hours you'd think you would know that.
nope. i disagree with you. I meet a lot of competitive survivors and sometimes there is nothing you can do. Also as High rank survivor i don't see any problems with dealing with nemesis. He just isn't strong
he is very simple, you always m1, but if they perform an action, you m2. There you go that is the quick and fast guide from a nemesis main. I could propose the same argument as any killer. Watch. "I disagree with you. I meet a lot of competitive survivors and sometimes there is nothing you can do. Also as High rank survivor i don't see any problems with dealing with blight. He just isn't strong" Ya see how that sounds? Just because you aren't the best with a killer, or you go against weaker players doesn't make that killer awful, and besides that silly argument, against a comp team, almost all the cast of killers will struggle against them hard, except for Spirit, Nurse, and Blight, maybe one or two more.
Dude, i almost have 5k hrs, i know how to play Nemesis i know everything about him. I played hundreds of games with any possible builds. And you know what? He sucks. You can't change my mind because this is literally my job to play this game. Thanks for the guide and let's end this here
Ok well for this game being a job you sure don't know how to balance and look at both sides and all interactions. Hope you get better, saying your hours doesn't justify bad changes
Or maybe you're just worse player than me and don't see full image. Cheers
Main nemesis here, rank 17 killer, top 954943593459 Europe, zombies should have green shirts and have a meme addon that explode in confetty when killed.
agree
Now that i think twice, meme brown addon, Zombies Party: Zombies you kill give no comtamination charges but gives extra bloodpoints, and explode in confeti.
explosion kills you as well
Mettle of Man was one of the quickest nerfed perks to be introduced and was arguably one of the most OP survivor perks in the game due to the free third health state. Playing nemi is giving old MoM to each survivor twice. It is a HUGE problem no matter how many anecdotal 'its fine for me, I get 8 infections in the first chase 100 games in a row'. As to your 'Nemesis isn't really that weak' the devs disagree, they specifically called out he has a low kill rate in red ranks.
I would disagree that he's B tier. Nemesis isn't overall as oppressive as you think he is and he suffers quite a bit from his power extending chases. Now you can mitigate that issue on certain maps/tiles, but not all. He's a perfectly middle of the pack average killer with a power that is mildly useful in the chase even if it can be counterproductive. That said, Nemesis is essentially the evolved form Trapper in that due to being more reliant on m1's than his power he gets to synergize with a lot of perks which does make a big difference.
I would say the biggest pain points for him are
I would say that Trickster is more oppressive than Nemesis. Keep that doesn't mean better just that the way Trickster is designed is can't be anything but oppressive as he's a worse killer with an overwhelming 1v1 power. Nemesis doesn't excel at any one thing and has to respect things like loops, palettes, and isn't going to suddenly get any faster or break the laws of physics via movement. Now if he was pouncing or running around, or had his rocket launcher he's be oppressive.
Totally agree
I can actually agree with this. Personally for me, oppressive means there isn't much you can do against it, and that is how his tentacle feels to me. When I play him, I either get a m1, or I m2 them, there isn't much choice for survivors but holding w. Personally I'm fine with the speed boost survivors get from an infection, and the amount of vaccines, but I think contamination should actually be an effect, instead of just this imaginary health state. Zombies should just have a base fix to make them work more reliable, maybe make the tentacle more consistent as well around some certain objects, and then make contamination an actually scary effect. The tentalce itself though feels fine though, just make that first hit feel like it's actually applying something.