Permanent tier three Meyers, so much fun👎😵😷🤕

milwaukee354

I mean why, is having tier three for 60 seconds not good enough, it seems like devs cater to players complaints, instead of making the game fun

Aven_Fallen

Myers is an old Killer, some of his Add Ons would not exist anymore if he would be created nowadays. I guess you can expect the Infinite Tier 3 and the Tombstone Piece (Purple Add On) to be reworked at some point in the future.

In general, Myers will hopefully get an Update in the future, he is powercreeped and some of his Add Ons should not exist anymore and others are in need of a Buff or Rework.

Entity_Lich94

Myers hasn't been touched balance wise for a very long time so he's pretty outdated. That addon along with a few others could definitely do with nerfing and others could do with some buffs, including Myers himself

Sackboy123

Myers is very outdated, only fun addons being Scratched Mirror and the Tombstone

Hopefully some day he will ge a Buff, October would be the perfect time for it

LapisInfernalis

@Aven_Fallen said:

Myers is an old Killer, some of his Add Ons would not exist anymore if he would be created nowadays. I guess you can expect the Infinite Tier 3 and the Tombstone Piece (Purple Add On) to be reworked at some point in the future.

In general, Myers will hopefully get an Update in the future, he is powercreeped and some of his Add Ons should not exist anymore and others are in need of a Buff or Rework.

i agree except the Fragrant Tunft of Hair is most likely so stay, since it is needed for the Evil Incarnate achievement.

Here is what I proposed for a Myers update. It's almost a year old but most things are still valid.

@LapisInfernalis said:

Since Myers is one of the 2 remaining Killers, who don't conform with the add-on rules (the other being Huntress), I thought of how I would do a little add-on rework for our Stalky Boi. This also includes some buffs to him as well since he's a bit outdated/ powercreeped. I tried to keep the original idea of the add-ons in mind while making them a bit more interesting.

These are just examples. Please give me constructive criticism and don't kill me, ok?

BUFFS

Evil Within I:

• Grants the Undetectable Status Effect
• Grants Detection Immunity <- The same as before the addition of the Undetectable Effect. To hinder Spine Chill, Object & Premonition to give any information on Myers. Makes early stalking somewhat easier.
• Slightly decreased Movement speed (110 %). <- (was 105%) To give him some extra mobility at the beginning and to get Stalk a bit easier
• Slightly decreased Lunge range (open time: 0.4 s). <- (was 0.2 s) I don't know the exact value Boyfriend's Memo adds, but I thought of this. i.e. Gives room for another add-on with Scratched Mirror.
• Regular Vaulting speed (1.7 seconds)

Why? Myers' EWI is more a hindrance than anything else. Good Survivors or a ######### map (looking at you Coldwind Farm!) can starve you of stalk, making it extremely hard to get to EWII. The slow MS and no bloodlust make it even harder. Therefore the MS buff to 110%. Detection Perks are quite problematic in EWI as well. Even if the Survivors can't hear you (except they hear your Darth Vader like breathing), they still get notified by Spine Chill, a very commonly used perk, even in red ranks. That survivor is GONE, before you have the chance to stalk. Same goes for Premonition or Object. Object still lights up, when you are looking at the killer, giving you a direction where he is.

But wouldn't that be too strong? No. You want this game to be a bit scarier, don't you? I loved the dread at the beginning of the match when you didn't know what killer it was. I was always on the lookout for a Myers sneaking around. I would like to have that back. By chosing a good positioning, you can make it really hard to grab you from the gen.

Evil Within II:

No changes.

Evil Within III:

• Regular Terror Radius (32 metres).
• Regular Movement speed (115 %).
• Slightly increased Lunge range (open time: 0.6 s).
• Moderately reduced Pallet (and Breakable Wall) breaking time (15%) <- Make him more dangerous. Like a litte Brutal Strength.
• Moderately increasing Pallet stun recovery (25%) <- Same as above. Like a little Enduring.
• Moderately increased Vaulting speed (1.275 seconds).
• When triggered, all Survivors suffer from the Exposed Status Effect.
• Evil Within III lasts for 60 seconds, after which it regresses to Evil Within II.

Why? Myers has little in-build ways of shortening the chase and he needs to build up his insta down every time. Oni i.e. can do this by hitting survivors during a chase and gets a lot of mobility during his Dash. I thought of making Myers a bit more dangerous, so that everyone should watch out and don't let him get his stalk! And for myself, nothing was more scary than Myers with BS, Spirit Fury & Enduring a long time ago. But now with the gen speeds and his insanely slow early game he needs gen regression or slow down perks like Pop or Sloppy. This is why I decided to buff EWIII with these effects. I'm not sure if they should stack with the perks or not though.

Stalking:

• The default Stalk Point requirement for each Tier is 5 Stalk Points. <- (was 6) easier to calculate :)
  • Stalk Points are obtained by stalking Survivors.
• Each Trial features a reservoir of 40.4 Stalk Points distributed evenly amongst all four Survivors for 10.1 Stalk Points each.
• When a Survivor disconnects, the remaining Stalk Points of that Survivor are distributed equally to the other remaining survivors. <- So that a DC doesn't screw you over when needing a lot of Stalk (i.e. when doing the Evil Incarnate Achievement).
• Default Stalk range is 40 metres from The Shape. <- (was 2.5m to 39.85m) same as Ghost Face
  • The Stalk efficiency decreases slightly with distance, ranging from 1 SP/s (100 % efficiency) to 0.33 SP/s) (33 % efficiency). <- (was 0.8333 SP/s at 100% and 0.08333 at 10%) It would be a bit hard to get "99ed" from 40m away in 5s so I thought buffing the numers would do something at least.
    • This means that the Stalk Time requirement for one Tier of Evil Within ranges from 5 seconds (100 % efficiency) to 15 seconds) (33 % efficiency). <- (was 6s up to 60s) lessens the pain of stalking someone in the distance, without making it too strong.
• Once The Shape reaches Evil Within II, he has no means to return back to Evil Within I.
• The colour of a Survivor's outline while being stalked determines how many Stalk Points or evil is left in them, ranging from white (Evil available) to red (Evil depleted).
• Use the Active Ability Button (CTRL) to unleash EWIII. <- You will never accidentally use EWIII again while trying to 99 it. No need to stalk the last bit. [Edit: This needs some audio cue (like that from Oni). I thought of that eerie tone that indicated him staking you when he came out in 2016. In the Wiki it's the tune which is listed at the Evil Within I section of Myers' page]

Why? His salking mechanic is outdated and inferior to that of GF. I can understand that it would be too strong to give him the same stalk speed at 40m like right in front of him. By tweaking the numbers, I think that his stalking will be better but not OP.

ADD-ON REWORK

Judith's Tombstone (Ultra Rare)

A large and heavy granite tombstone stolen from Mt. Sinclair cemetery, belonging to Judith Myers.

• Kill healthy or injured Survivors with Evil Within III.
• Kill the last remaining Survior in a Locker with Evil Within III. <- No more locker hopping to deny the Evil Incarnate Achievement. At least for the last survivor. Maybe make this standard with a new nice Mori animation where Myers pins the Survivor to the locker. Like in the movie.
• Disables the ability to Stalk with Evil Within III.
• Tremendously increases the amount of Evil required to reach Evil Within III for the first time.
• Slightly decreases (110% ms) The Shape's Movement speed in Evil Within II and III. <- (was -9% = 95% in EWI and 105% in EWII&III) Nothing is worse than being a slug in EWI with this. Still slower than normal, but better around large loops. PWYF would be nice to have but not a necessity. If this would be too strong with PWYF, make it 105% in EWII&III but not EWI.

"Here lies our beloved daughter."

Lock of Hair (Very Rare)

A cut lock of blond hair bunched with a black elastic.

• Tremendously increases (+40s) Evil Within III duration.
• Slightly increases (+2.5 SP) the amount of Evil required to reach Evil Within III for the first time. <- (was +5) Makes this add-on more viable. The Hair Bow was just better, because it added 30s for +2.5 SP.

Scratched Mirror (Very Rare)

A standing portable vanity mirror which has been violently scratched with a sharp metallic object.

• When Stalking, Evil Within I reveals the Aura of Survivors within 32 metres.
• Evil Within cannot progress past Evil Within I.
• Slightly reduces (105%) The Shape's Movement Speed. <- (was 105%) Yes, this is not a nerf or a buff, but since i buffed EWI MS to 110% I needed to adjust this. 110% with a 32m wallhack would be too much. Pretty much old Jumpscare Myers before the introduction of Undetectable without M&A being a necessity.
• Each Hit Score Event grants 100 % Bonus Bloodpoints in the Brutality Category and additional 200 % Bonus Bloodpoints in the Deviousness Category.

Mirror Shard (Very Rare) <- (was Rare)

A large and sharp piece of a broken mirror.

• Stalking a Survivor for 1 second in Evil Within II reveals the Aura of other Survivors within 16 metres around you for 4 seconds. <- Maybe a bit too strong, but hey: I changed the rarity.

Vanity Mirror (Rare) <- (was Very Rare) Is still not as strong as Scratched Mirror.

A standing portable vanity mirror in perfect condition except for a fine layer of dust and face powder covering it.

• When Stalking, Evil Within II reveals the Aura of Survivors within 16 metres.
• Evil Within cannot progress past Evil Within II.
• Moderately reduces (8m) the Terror Radius. <- Makes Dead Rabbit or M&A a nice to have, but not a necessity. I would say it should stack. You will still be vulnerable to Object etc though (no Undetectable!).
• Each Hit Score Event grants 100 % Bonus Bloodpoints in the Brutality Category and additional 150 % Bonus Bloodpoints in the Deviousness Category.
• Slightly decreases (110% ) The Shape's Movement speed in Evil Within II. <- (was -6% = 97% in EWI and 107% in EWII) This was a worse Scratched Mirror with only a little MS bonus.

Reflective Fragment (Rare) <- (was Uncommon)

A tiny piece of a highly reflective material most probably from a broken mirror.

• When putting a Survivor into the Dying State, reveal the Aura of Survivors within 8 metres.

J. Myers Memorial (Rare)

A glossy page ripped from the 1965 Haddonfield High School yearbook, one dedicated to the memory of Judith Myers.

• Moderately increases (20%) Evil Gain rate when Stalking. <- (was 25%) A slight nerf since stalking is overall easier.

Glass Fragment (Uncommon)

A tiny piece of tinted glass, probably from a broken object. It is impossible to determine its origin.

• Stalking a Survivor for 1 second reveals their Aura for 3 Seconds. <- (was only usable in EWI) i made it usable in all tiers.

Judith's Journal (Uncommon) <- (was Rare)

A journal identified as owned by Judith M. Myers. Most of the pages are defaced with frightening and disturbing drawings.

• You become obsessed with one Survivor.
• Considerably increases (40%) the amount of Evil gained when Stalking your Obsession. <- (was 65%) A slight nerf, because stalking is easier. I think the Obsession requirement makes it less strong without Nemesis and DS or For The People is not allways triggered, so is will be Uncommon instead of Rare.

You can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.

Memorial Flower (Common) <- (was Uncommon)

A partially faded and dried pink larkspur picked up from a gravestone.

• Slightly increases (10%) Evil Gain rate when Stalking. <- (was 15%) A slight nerf since stalking is overall easier.

Boyfriend's Memo (Common)

A "romantic", if slightly sleazy, note left around to draw the attention of a female lover.

• Outlines a Survivor when you are able to gain Evil. <- I thought of something like Feddy's outlining of a sleeping Survivor (from his POV). This is mostly to help newer players to understand when you can stalk and when an onject hinders you to do it. Sometimes you think you can stalk through that piece of junk but you can't. This is meant to help with that by adding some visual effect.

"The note is signed: D."

[Edit: Memorial Flower & J. Myers Memorial could both be changed to "Slightly/Moderately increases (+1.25/+2.5 SP) available Stalk Points per Survivor." If the increased stalking rate is too strong. This would give you 1 or 2 extra Evil Within III and would make stalking for some add-ons (i.e. Tombstone) easier if one survivor decides to hide all the time.]

Sorry for the long post.

Edit: I corrected the math with the stalking points. Hopfully.....

@milwaukee354 said:

I mean why, is having tier three for 60 seconds not good enough, it seems like devs cater to players complaints, instead of making the game fun

I can understand that it might be a bit opressive if you are a newer player and actually don't know how to play against him well. Beginners or even mediocre players often let him stalk freely which is a great disadvantage for you and your team in the long run.

The opression you might feel with Perma EWIII, might be because you and/or your teammates heal up or hide all the time. Don't heal during EWIII, because if he gets you, the 16s (or 32s with Self Care) are totally wasted. Just stay alert and do gens. He has nothing really except an insta down, a longer lunge and a slightly faster vault speed during EWIII. You can still loop him quite well tbh. And Myers has the WORST early game of all killers. Even worse than Hag or Trapper.

If he gets to EWIII (especially with perma EWIII) before a gen is finished, that's your problem and not a balance issue.

Patrick1088

It takes a long time to get to EW3. If you can hide behind LOS and focus on gens, there's a good chance that you can do all 5 gens before he pops (happened a few times for me on certain maps). Big maps in general are a nightmare for him.

EW3 is hard, but he's essentially weaker for 70% of the match.

When I run EW3, I need Corrupt Intervention, Whispers, Discordance, and BBQ just to keep finding survivors to rank up, but ensure there's enough time to not get gen rushed.

Pukenplag

Myers is, with the exception of Tombstone Piece (super OP) and Vanity Mirror (super trash), the best killer add-on-wise, in my opinion. He has both "buffs" and gameplay changers (Scratched Mirror).

I sincerely hope they won't touch his addons except those 2 I mentioned.

Aneurysm

@LapisInfernalis said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2435886#Comment_2435886

i agree except the Fragrant Tunft of Hair is most likely so stay, since it is needed for the Evil Incarnate achievement.

Here is what I proposed for a Myers update. It's almost a year old but most things are still valid.

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/197144/how-i-would-rework-myers-add-ons-and-buff-him-a-little

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/273610/permanent-tier-three-meyers-so-much-fun-%F0%9F%A4%95

I can understand that it might be a bit opressive if you are a newer player and actually don't know how to play against him well. Beginners or even mediocre players often let him stalk freely which is a great disadvantage for you and your team in the long run.

The opression you might feel with Perma EWIII, might be because you and/or your teammates heal up or hide all the time. Don't heal during EWIII, because if he gets you, the 16s (or 32s with Self Care) are totally wasted. Just stay alert and do gens. He has nothing really except an insta down, a longer lunge and a slightly faster vault speed during EWIII. You can still loop him quite well tbh. And Myers has the WORST early game of all killers. Even worse than Hag or Trapper.

If he gets to EWIII (especially with perma EWIII) before a gen is finished, that's your problem and not a balance issue.

I really like your ideas for him 👍

supersonic853

Myers problem is in tier lists ive at least seen hes near the bottom and personally playing him hes pretty lackluster and powercrept. The only saving grace is how insane some of his addons are (the green ribbon for instance) but others are straight up trash (more stalk walking movement speed) id be fine with a GOOD addon pass and some basekit buffs to make his addons consistently useful and some not straight up busted

GeneralV

Myers is fine, and so are his add-ons. If he gets changed, he will end up with an overheat mechanic, paired with useless add-ons that only work if you get blinded after stalking someone.

xenotimebong

@Patrick1088 said:

It takes a long time to get to EW3. If you can hide behind LOS and focus on gens, there's a good chance that you can do all 5 gens before he pops (happened a few times for me on certain maps). Big maps in general are a nightmare for him.

EW3 is hard, but he's essentially weaker for 70% of the match.

When I run EW3, I need Corrupt Intervention, Whispers, Discordance, and BBQ just to keep finding survivors to rank up, but ensure there's enough time to not get gen rushed.

Eh, it depends on the map really. On a smaller and more open map like Dead Dawg or Coal Tower, getting to tier 3 is trivially easy. On a map like Mother’s Dwelling you’ll struggle more because of the size, and on a map like Lery’s you’ll struggle more because keeping LoS is a pain.

Perma tier 3 was obviously designed around the old maps with more pallets and stronger windows. On maps with fewer (and/or less safe) pallets, it’s pretty easy to 4k with it. Especially considering how many slowdown perks are in the game now. Stack slowdowns and run a map offering and you can 4k every game without even trying that hard.

onemind

@milwaukee354 said:

I mean why, is having tier three for 60 seconds not good enough, it seems like devs cater to players complaints, instead of making the game fun

Lol catering to killers

This has been a thing since his release in 2018

Seeing this makes me hope they keep infinite t3 out of spite when they change him

glitchboi

Infinite tier 3 is a lot weaker than you think. It takes 10 years to charge it up, it encourages survivors to hold W due to his 32m radius which disallows you from sneaking in and then going into tier 3 after 99ing it, etc. etc. People overestimate that add-on, it's honestly more of a hindrance.

stormy_

@Sackboy123 said:

Myers is very outdated, only fun addons being Scratched Mirror and the Tombstone

Hopefully some day he will ge a Buff, October would be the perfect time for it

make him more powerful than he is already

u mean ?

Sackboy123

Wouldn't say his powerful, at the end of the day he's only an M1 killer which can be looped very easily. Its why you rarely see him in high ranks

Crowman

@Patrick1088 said:

It takes a long time to get to EW3. If you can hide behind LOS and focus on gens, there's a good chance that you can do all 5 gens before he pops (happened a few times for me on certain maps). Big maps in general are a nightmare for him.

EW3 is hard, but he's essentially weaker for 70% of the match.

When I run EW3, I need Corrupt Intervention, Whispers, Discordance, and BBQ just to keep finding survivors to rank up, but ensure there's enough time to not get gen rushed.

In theory, survivors should be able to get most of the gens done before a Myers gets to EW3 with Tuft of Fur. But I've had too many teammates who seemingly just run at Myers and let him fully stalk to EW3 meanwhile I'm the only one doing a gen.

stormy_

@milwaukee354 said:

I mean why, is having tier three for 60 seconds not good enough, it seems like devs cater to players complaints, instead of making the game fun

i didn’t know which perk is that !? but do u wona make him more powerful?!

Tsulan

Myers is fine. Your team needs to feed him a lot before he gets his infinite t3. By then, all gens should be finished. Everything else is just an excuse.

Oh and the devs should take Myers as an example of how to make addons for a killer. Because his addons allow for completely different playstyles, which is the best thing ever. Since you never know what you are facing.