IMO Twins is the worst killer to go against and play as

Entity_Lich94

Twins have slowly become my most hated killer in the entire game. They are so boring to play against and play as for a number of reasons but just to say, I don't think for a second that they are too weak or too strong. They are an effective killer in the right hands and are not impossible to go against as survivor, but their entire design revolves around 2 very unfun tactics: camping and slugging.

Most twin players I go against will often do the same thing, get a hit with charlotte, then down you with victor and then use him to latch onto someone else. So then you're left on the floor until she comes along to grab you or until your team mates get you back up which with solo que who bloody knows when that will be.

If charlotte gets to you first, you then have the pleasure of having Victor staring at you from a distance waiting for you to be saved. When that happens the little bastard will down you, latch onto the teammate that saved you and once again your playing slug simulator waiting for someone, charlotte or other survivors to come get you. After all that its usually rinse and repeat onto death hook or for more slug simulator 2021.

Now you cant exactly blame people for playing them like this as its clearly a very effective tactic to use with them, its just how they work, but boy oh boy does going through this every time I see twins just make me want to stop playing. Even doing this when playing as them whenever I have a daily that wants me to down survivors with victor make me almost fall asleep with how dull it is to do this. Plus I just feel bad for the survivors I'm against.

Then there's Victor himself who I just find so dammed hard to actually avoid his pounces. Even when I trick him go 6 feet next to me or above, it'll still count as a hit because the server said so. But then again the opposite can happen where he's headbutted me but for some reason that's not a hit. It's one of the many things in this game that's just so inconsistent. If by chance you do avoid him and kick him, it seems to not really matter as he'll be back on top of you within 20 seconds if they want to get you that much, which makes them a very effective tunneller too which is also a pain to deal with. So you basically have a tiny midget with a hit box the size of mars who will camp and tunnel you most times.

I do get that sometimes killers do have to camp, tunnel and slug if they need to build pressure when gens are getting done too fast but twins just seems to promote this play style the moment they load into the game regardless on how its going.

Sorry this post was so long, it was a bit of a rant but I am so done going against this horrible killer and just feel like from now on, any dailies that involve them will just be scrapped

humanbeing1704

Honestly twins gameplay is pretty bad they are the only killer I have left to buy and they don't even seem worth 9k shards

Phasmamain

I actually don’t mind twins too much. They encourage teamwork and Victor can have some fun chases.

Trickster on the other hand is just depressing to fight

Snowbawlzzz

All you ever see them do is proxy camp, and there's really no change that can be made without a complete remaking of the killer from scratch.

Entity_Lich94

@Phasmamain said:

I actually don’t mind twins too much. They encourage teamwork and Victor can have some fun chases.

Trickster on the other hand is just depressing to fight

while trickster is bad, at least for the most part you don't get slugged for 3 minuets

gilgamer

Same

OniWantsYourMacaroni

Twins can be pretty ok to go against.

Just remember to

-Stay in groups

-Try to go into a locker if you're about be downed

-Don't be afraid to use pallets against Victor

xenotimebong

I can’t stand them either. People complain about other killers but I’d rather face 500 Spirits than play another match against the Twins, to be honest. The fact that Victor is a 150% stealth killer with built-in Bloodhound and a ranged attack is so dumb I don’t even know where to start with it.

I don’t give up easily when playing survivor, even in solo queue, but as soon as I hear the sound of Victor being released my desire to play the game just leaves me completely.

lagosta

Twins require coordination to play against. The most effective way is to separate into two groups of two. WGLF does wonders against them.

CashelP14

I really hate playing as and vs Twins also. Though I would say Hag is worse.

My reasoning for this is because a bad Twins player is fun to vs. They usually miss Victor a lot for some easy kicks (which is the best thing about Twins) and eventually give up on Victor.

A bad Hag will eventually down someone and if they place all 10 traps around a hook you can still die through hard camping and the bullshit camera turning. To me there's never any fun facing a Hag.

Power_Guy

I have the Twins, but I have been too scared to even try them. 😂

Mazoobi

I love playing as and against them. They encourage teamwork and as others have said, staying in groups or in pairs is VERY effective. Whenever I play with friends, we have a blast whenever the twins are the killer(s). It's so fun being chased by Victor and having to work around both Charlotte and Victor is a fun challenge.

I honestly don't understand how some people would rather go against spirits then killers that have legit counters.

glitchboi

Agreed, Twins is so ######### boring to play as and against. They're a solo queue destroyer because good Twins players require coordination to play against, so SWF is more effective in beating them.

To be fair though, it's preference really.

TacitusKilgore

Me who used to main them:

haha yeah guys, what a terrible killer am i right...?

TheClownIsKing

@Entity_Lich94 said:

Twins have slowly become my most hated killer in the entire game. They are so boring to play against and play as for a number of reasons but just to say, I don't think for a second that they are too weak or too strong. They are an effective killer in the right hands and are not impossible to go against as survivor, but their entire design revolves around 2 very unfun tactics: camping and slugging.

Most twin players I go against will often do the same thing, get a hit with charlotte, then down you with victor and then use him to latch onto someone else. So then you're left on the floor until she comes along to grab you or until your team mates get you back up which with solo que who bloody knows when that will be.

If charlotte gets to you first, you then have the pleasure of having Victor staring at you from a distance waiting for you to be saved. When that happens the little bastard will down you, latch onto the teammate that saved you and once again your playing slug simulator waiting for someone, charlotte or other survivors to come get you. After all that its usually rinse and repeat onto death hook or for more slug simulator 2021.

Now you cant exactly blame people for playing them like this as its clearly a very effective tactic to use with them, its just how they work, but boy oh boy does going through this every time I see twins just make me want to stop playing. Even doing this when playing as them whenever I have a daily that wants me to down survivors with victor make me almost fall asleep with how dull it is to do this. Plus I just feel bad for the survivors I'm against.

Then there's Victor himself who I just find so dammed hard to actually avoid his pounces. Even when I trick him go 6 feet next to me or above, it'll still count as a hit because the server said so. But then again the opposite can happen where he's headbutted me but for some reason that's not a hit. It's one of the many things in this game that's just so inconsistent. If by chance you do avoid him and kick him, it seems to not really matter as he'll be back on top of you within 20 seconds if they want to get you that much, which makes them a very effective tunneller too which is also a pain to deal with. So you basically have a tiny midget with a hit box the size of mars who will camp and tunnel you most times.

I do get that sometimes killers do have to camp, tunnel and slug if they need to build pressure when gens are getting done too fast but twins just seems to promote this play style the moment they load into the game regardless on how its going.

Sorry this post was so long, it was a bit of a rant but I am so done going against this horrible killer and just feel like from now on, any dailies that involve them will just be scrapped

“but their entire design revolves around 2 very unfun tactics: camping and slugging.”

Incorrect. This is just something most Twins players are utilising. But their kit is way deeper than that. There’s nothing boring about playing as Twins at all because there is a plethora of interesting strategies in their base kit. Someone bored of playing as Twins is simply ignoring all the other interesting things that can be done with them.

TheClownIsKing

Here is how deep their kit actually is (beyond camping and slugging)

@TheClownIsKing said:

(TL;DR - Twins now good. Much good killer. Do the thing with Victor. Win. Celebrate with cookie.)

So I absolutely HATED the Twins upon release. Some of you already know this as you may have read one of my few epic rants about how I thought they were the absolute WORST killer ever. I went within days of first trying them from “Twins are fun” to “HOW COULD THEY RELEASE SUCH A TOTAL JOKE OF A KILLER?!?!”

I was seriously having the most terrible experiences in DBD I had ever had playing as Twins, yet for some odd reason I was compelled to stubbornly keep playing them. I just HAD to understand them. I HAD to “get it” and find out why certain design decisions were made. 

I’m pleased to say that I think I’m there now. I’ve been surprised to find out just how cleverly designed the Twins are, and how complex and robust their kit actually is. Probably not since Doc and Demogorgan has a killer given a player such a large amount to digest, although Twins are probably on par with Demogorgan as far as versatility are concerned. 

To summarise everything Twins can do (in no particular order, and will be elaborated further down);

• Stealth.
• Map Pressure.
• Game Stall.
• Tracking.
• Anti-loop.
• Traps/Ambushes.

I won’t go into The Twins Camping and Snowball potential as that’s already pretty well known, so it’s just superfluous to cover it here. For the record I’m in full support of nerfing their camping capability. I.e. Victor should be auto destroyed if he’s already within a specified distance from a hook that Charlotte places a survivor onto. 

Stealth. 

Let’s start with base kit Victor. No other killer or power can move around the map at decently high speed, avoid all survivor detection perks, be difficult to see or hear until it’s far too late, launch into a blazingly fast attack before a survivor even realised what’s hit them, AND cause minor game stall in the process. It’s enough to make Wraith, Ghostface, Myers, and Pig jealous. 

Then as Charlotte, if both her and Victor have been used smartly, and is close by to a survivor that Victor is latched onto, Oblivious increases the odds of approaching that survivor from a vantage the survivor may not be expecting. The delay in Charlotte’s TR returning is a nice touch if wanting to go for other survivors revealed by Killer Instinct. 

Then we have Silencing Cloth, Drop of Perfume, and Cat’s Eye. All of these add ons bolster stealth play by adding further options in clever strategy. Toy Sword may offer Victor a faster pounce charge to try and get a survivor before they manage to turn a corner, but it’s much more satisfying charging pounce with Cat’s Eye, and then have the survivor accidentally run right back into you because they can no longer hear where Victor is. 

Map Pressure. 

This probably needs little explanation. As long as the player smartly manages the distance between Charlotte & Victor by ensuring they’re never too drastically far from each other, they’re able to control a significant chunk of the map by having Victor capitalise on what Charlotte does, and vice versa.

Game Stall.

Victor is probably one of the most effective stall tools out of all of the killer kits. Latching Victor onto healthy survivors regularly takes them out of their objective immediately, and many survivors only create further stall for themselves by going into a panic without thinking clearly about where exactly they SHOULD be running to. This is even more effective If Charlotte focuses her attention onto a survivor revealed by Killer Instinct, giving the Twins 2 for 1 game stall. 

We can’t talk about Victor latching onto survivors without also talking about kidnapping. Here’s my spin on it. I think pretty much any killer would give ANYTHING to have 1 survivor dead at 4, or even still 5 gens left to repair, leaving them to have to deal with only 3 survivors. The odds of success skyrocket when it’s 3 survivors (or less), with 3 or more repairs still left for the survivors to do. A survivor WILLINGLY taking themselves out of their team objective by kidnapping Victor is actually a MASSIVE boon to you as killer. There’s simply no greater game stall than a survivor literally not engaging in their objective. A kidnapper may as well be an Urban Evader doing nothing but creeping around the map perimeter. I almost never intentionally go after the survivor I just latched Victor onto unless I happened to have Charlotte already close by. I almost always try and find someone else. Even better if teammates have been revealed to me by Killer Instinct. If Victor is kidnapped, fine. I can keep monitoring their whereabouts after some time, and very, very rarely do kidnappers NOT at some point go “oh crap! I can see the others are struggling now.”, and will finally get rid of Victor so they can actually try to help again. Kidnapping Victor is a red herring. They’re trying to psyche you out. Don’t let them. 

Tracking.

This probably also doesn’t need much elaboration. Killer Instinct activating whenever Victor is either latched onto a survivor, or whenever he is used as a sentry is an invaluable tool that should be utilised at its utmost potential. This can work to help with game stall if survivors start crouch walking the 12 metres towards Victor to counter Killer Instinct. Using either Soured Milk, or Madeleines Glove (or both) makes this even stronger, whether for the increased detection range, or to make survivors crouch walk over a further distance as a counter to Killer Instinct. This also leads me into...

Traps & Ambushes. 

Victor, used as a Sentry, can additionally act as a trap/bait for survivors. Or when either Silencing Cloth or Drop of Perfume are used (whether with or without Soured Milk or Madeleines Glove) allow Charlotte to ambush a survivor given away by Killer Instinct when they’re approaching Victor. Even better if you set up intentional baits using either Toy Soldier or Iridescent Pendant. It’s shocking just how effective a strategy it is to send Victor to a key point of interest, such as a gen you’re certain survivors are going to quickly return to, leave him idle, but immediately switch back from Charlotte to Victor again because you’ve heard/seen Killer Instinct activate the very instant you switched to Charlotte, knowing that a survivor is running in to try and kick Victor (they can’t resist). Now you’re controlling Victor, the survivor is right next to you confused, and they are now able to be pounced on because of the vulnerable, compromised position they’re in. 

Anti-Loop. 

Whenever controlling Charlotte, and Victor is with you, The Twins have some of the strongest anti-loop in the game. Stop at the most advantageous spot in a loop for a survivor (provided it’s not within stun distance of a pallet), and then unleash Victor. With Charlotte body blocking the survivors ability to attempt another lap of the same loop, and Victor hot on their tail, they’re often forced to abandon the loop, which potentially puts them out in the open while you’re chasing as Victor, hoping they’re able to successfully dodge Victor’s next pounce. It’s worth noting that the reverse can be done too. If Victor is chasing someone that’s demonstrated that they’re adept at regularly dodging pounce, and Charlotte’s close by, then parking Victor in a spot at a loop that forces the survivor to stop and kick him in order to pass usually allows enough time to get Charlotte there to hit them while the survivor is animation locked. At Shack placing Charlotte on the inside of the Window, facing inward to unleash Victor leaves a survivor with only being able to do another half lap of shack, and through the interior once more before they can hope that Victor cannot land a pounce before they reach the pallet, something Victor can leap over anyway. At worst, if the pounce is missed, the pallet is down and Charlotte can get rid of it. 1 and a half laps by the survivor, and the pallet is gone. Some killers would die of envy to be able to get rid of shack pallet this quickly. 

Now let’s look at how the Twins 3 teachable perks compliment their abilities. I hold the philosophy that teachable perks are never random. I believe there’s a deliberate reason killers have certain perks tied to them. 

Coup De Grace. 

I wouldn’t exactly say this perk synergises with the Twins power directly. This perk is more about in the event that Charlotte is either without Victor, or it is not ideal to switch to Victor mid chase, Coup De Grace ensures Charlotte at least has SOMETHING up her sleeve up to 5 times per match. It’s also currently one of the best available counters to Dead Hard. 

Hoarder.

I’ve totally changed my tune about Hoarder. I was at first totally bummed out about the fact that a way couldn’t be figured out how to make the original concept work: that Hoarder also reduced item rarity. I dismissed the perk as being a complete waste of a perk slot. I’m still disappointed that the perk doesn’t reduce item rarity (making the perk somewhat risky to use), and I do hope this is revisited and they find a way to make the perk reduce item rarity, but Twins actually get GREAT value out of Hoarder. As weird as this comparison is, Hoarder is kinda like Overcharge. My meaning being: just as no other killer gets as much value out of Overcharge as Doc does, no other killer can capitalise on the information Hoarder gives quite the same way Twins can. Sure, you could use it on a high mobility killer, but survivors will hear them coming. Even Wraith is going to give himself away before getting close enough to a chest to uncloak. But Charlotte can immediately send Victor off in the direction of a chest notification, using Victor’s speed AND stealth ambush a survivor still locked in the chest opening (or pick up) animation by pouncing on them just outside of shriek range. Getting a basement chest notification is comedy gold. And with either Spinning Top and/or Franklin’s Demise, Twins get even MORE value out of Hoarder, either as extra tracking, reconnaissance (just to stay informed), or further ambush opportunities. 

Oppression. 

The gen regression potential of Oppression is pretty easy to understand (opinions on how effective this is or isn’t notwithstanding). But it’s more noteworthy how Oppression works as a tracking tool. Failed skill check after activating Oppression? Now you know where to send Victor next. It doesn’t get more straight forward than that. 

Closing thoughts. 

Twins are hard, and deserving of the difficulty advice label given in game. But this is more than just how they operate mechanically: both the challenge of accurately landing a pounce, and how punishing it can be for a single miss. It’s also because of how deeply complex their total kit is (comparatively speaking, against other killers). They’re a very rewarding killer once confidence is built around using everything at the Twins disposal at the appropriate times, and learning when to change gears to another of their many available strategies.

Entity_Lich94

@TheClownIsKing said:

Here is how deep their kit actually is (beyond camping and slugging)

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/260673/the-twins-my-comprehensive-analysis

They're kit maybe deeper than camping and slugging, but It's clear it what they excel in compared to most other killers hence why loads of them do it.

I'm not saying that they're bad in strength at all, it's obvious that they can be a very effective killer in the right hands. I just personally don't find their play style fun to go against or to use. It's fine if others like them and it's great if you and others found a way to play and enjoy them, I just really don't like them

Friendly_Blendette

@Entity_Lich94 said:

Twins have slowly become my most hated killer in the entire game. They are so boring to play against and play as for a number of reasons but just to say, I don't think for a second that they are too weak or too strong. They are an effective killer in the right hands and are not impossible to go against as survivor, but their entire design revolves around 2 very unfun tactics: camping and slugging.

Most twin players I go against will often do the same thing, get a hit with charlotte, then down you with victor and then use him to latch onto someone else. So then you're left on the floor until she comes along to grab you or until your team mates get you back up which with solo que who bloody knows when that will be.

If charlotte gets to you first, you then have the pleasure of having Victor staring at you from a distance waiting for you to be saved. When that happens the little bastard will down you, latch onto the teammate that saved you and once again your playing slug simulator waiting for someone, charlotte or other survivors to come get you. After all that its usually rinse and repeat onto death hook or for more slug simulator 2021.

Now you cant exactly blame people for playing them like this as its clearly a very effective tactic to use with them, its just how they work, but boy oh boy does going through this every time I see twins just make me want to stop playing. Even doing this when playing as them whenever I have a daily that wants me to down survivors with victor make me almost fall asleep with how dull it is to do this. Plus I just feel bad for the survivors I'm against.

Then there's Victor himself who I just find so dammed hard to actually avoid his pounces. Even when I trick him go 6 feet next to me or above, it'll still count as a hit because the server said so. But then again the opposite can happen where he's headbutted me but for some reason that's not a hit. It's one of the many things in this game that's just so inconsistent. If by chance you do avoid him and kick him, it seems to not really matter as he'll be back on top of you within 20 seconds if they want to get you that much, which makes them a very effective tunneller too which is also a pain to deal with. So you basically have a tiny midget with a hit box the size of mars who will camp and tunnel you most times.

I do get that sometimes killers do have to camp, tunnel and slug if they need to build pressure when gens are getting done too fast but twins just seems to promote this play style the moment they load into the game regardless on how its going.

Sorry this post was so long, it was a bit of a rant but I am so done going against this horrible killer and just feel like from now on, any dailies that involve them will just be scrapped

I agree they are a pain to play against but running around as victor and flying at people is so much fun.

Hex_Ignored

How can you say this when trickster exists? He is literally unplayable on console and while I don't have the update yet it seems he just got worse. He is also quite...interesting to play against because he is so lopsided. He either finds you in the open and downs you in 10 seconds or there is a rock you can loop him around for 10 minutes. There is no inbetween

Haddix

Twins are pretty fun to play against if your team (AND YOU) knows what to do against them. They're the most teamwork encouraging killer in the game, which is pretty fitting considering they're a teamwork focused killer (though Charlotte is quite literally just Victor's janitor after he poops his diaper all over the team). People just don't play them, and so they don't actually know what to do against them, get ######### on, then proceed to get frustrated and cry when it's probably their - and their teammates' - fault for not actually using any of the very Twins-specific counterplay to waste a considerable amount of their time.

Rivyn

@Entity_Lich94 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2393304#Comment_2393304

while trickster is bad, at least for the most part you don't get slugged for 3 minuets

Probably because it takes him three minutes to cross a map looking for somebody.

GrimoireWeiss

I like Twins. At least they are something different from the two archetypes we've been having of "ranged antiloop killer" or "killer that runs fast". Sure they could have some tweaks, but I feel people really understimate how creative their concept was.