The Spirit needs a serious visual design revision

Lyinginbedmon

The Spirit's visual design has, since her inception, severely irked me for what I feel should be obvious reasons. She's virtually nude, still very much recognisable as a young woman, her nudity is not appropriate to her lore, and the only available means of making her more clothed is to buy her most expensive cosmetic.

For greater clarity on my concerns, see this video.

I feel she needs a rework, as to expect everyone to play her with her current default appearance or shell out money to use her cosmetic is rather unacceptable. I enjoy playing Dead by Daylight and I want it to be as accessible to as many people as possible, but as she currently stands I can't in all seriousness say that how the Spirit looks is okay.

Malakir

Oh Op I just finished to watch the last 10 sec of the video. If you really are the author of that video omg. The guy actually say "brutalize a young woman" while she is the killer saying its inappropriate put her with the clown and Freddy.. WoW just wow

She brutalize people not the other way around! I know doesn't fit the narrative again my bad

Lyinginbedmon

@Malakir said:
Oh Op I just finished to watch the last 10 sec of the video. If you really are the author of that video omg. The guy actually say "brutalize a young woman" while she is the killer saying its inappropriate put her with the clown and Freddy.. WoW just wow

She brutalize people not the other way around! I know doesn't fit the narrative again my bad

The mention was not in reference to her being actively brutalised in her present state but, rather, the design decision of having her have been brutalised and then placing her into a violent context in nothing but the remains of her underwear.

It would seem you didn't listen very closely.

Wahara

I no UnDeRsAnd y do u CaRE????

LOL SO OFFInDED!11!

Wahara

No one else? Orion, possibly? Powerbat?

whistles

click click click

Come on. Don't be shy, I won't hurt you.

I'd especially appreciate azazer. I got my pimp hand ready for you, boy.

Boss

@Lyinginbedmon said:
I enjoy playing Dead by Daylight and I want it to be as accessible to as many people as possible,

As many people as possible?
Then why change/remove her?

People who like skimpy spirit women won't come and play then.
You'd literally deny people because of what you want.

Unless you just dislike those kinds of people, in which case your entire point is nothing but an opinion, and i'll be thankful you're not in the developer team.

Lyinginbedmon

@Boss said:

@Lyinginbedmon said:
I enjoy playing Dead by Daylight and I want it to be as accessible to as many people as possible,

As many people as possible?
Then why change/remove her?

People who like skimpy spirit women won't come and play then.
You'd literally deny people because of what you want.

Unless you just dislike those kinds of people, in which case your entire point is nothing but an opinion, and i'll be thankful you're not in the developer team.

My wager in that regard is that "people who like skimpy spirit women" is a significantly smaller segment of the population to attract than "people put off by naked women characters shoehorned into video games" is to deter.

Boss

@Lyinginbedmon said:

@Boss said:

@Lyinginbedmon said:
I enjoy playing Dead by Daylight and I want it to be as accessible to as many people as possible,

As many people as possible?
Then why change/remove her?

People who like skimpy spirit women won't come and play then.
You'd literally deny people because of what you want.

Unless you just dislike those kinds of people, in which case your entire point is nothing but an opinion, and i'll be thankful you're not in the developer team.

My wager in that regard is that "people who like skimpy spirit women" is a significantly smaller segment of the population to attract than "people put off by naked women characters shoehorned into video games" is to deter.

Maybe, idk about that and making a guess is kinda useless.
However, the difference is small enough for the developers to just not care.
The player count has, for a while now, raised its average amount of players by almost double the amount.
And events draw in a whole more like usual.

If there are people turned off by her appearance, backstory etc. so be it, i'm not here to change their choice.
I'm just saying, they'd need to have huge packs of people not wanting it to change this.

The people that stay silent are people who don't advocate change.
If they don't show they want to change what currently exists, which is The Spirit, they're passively accepting her.

Lyinginbedmon

Then I am simply one speaking up in favour of change.

PigMainBigBrain

@Lyinginbedmon said:
The Spirit's visual design has, since her inception, severely irked me for what I feel should be obvious reasons. She's virtually nude, still very much recognisable as a young woman, her nudity is not appropriate to her lore, and the only available means of making her more clothed is to buy her most expensive cosmetic.

For greater clarity on my concerns, see this video.

I feel she needs a rework, as to expect everyone to play her with her current default appearance or shell out money to use her cosmetic is rather unacceptable. I enjoy playing Dead by Daylight and I want it to be as accessible to as many people as possible, but as she currently stands I can't in all seriousness say that how the Spirit looks is okay.

"I want it to be as accessible to as many people as possible"

The game is Rated Mature, its not supposed to be accessible to minors.
That being said, if for some reason you don't have access to the game...simply

grow up....

Mc_Harty

@Wahara said:
No one else? @Orion , possibly? @powerbats ?

whistles

click click click

Come on. Don't be shy, I won't hurt you.

I'd especially appreciate @azazer . I got my pimp hand ready for you, boy.

You know if you're going to act cocky, you might as well tag them.

Don't worry... I'll do it for you since you suddenly forgot how after tagging me in a different thread.

Strange... it's almost like you enjoy talking ######### behind posters back.

PigMainBigBrain

Also op is an obnoxious SJW troll, he calls Freddy and Clown a Sexual predator.....

HE CALLED CLOWN A SEXUAL PREDATOR?!?!?!
A FICTIONAL CHARACTER WHO DISMEMBERS PEOPLE IN A CIRCUS.....NO WHERE IN HIS LORE DOES IT MENTION SEX....THE OP ASSUUUUMES THAT CLOWN IS A SEXUAL PREDATOR?!?!?!

Stop it op....get some help. And this is coming from a pig main, some of the most psychotic and methodical killers in this game.....get some help....

PigMainBigBrain

@GodDamn_Angela said:

@Wahara said:
@Lyinginbedmon

I wish you luck with this conversation, I really do. Gamers aren't exactly known for their awareness or sensitivities in relation to social issues. I attempted to have a productive discussion about the inclusion of LGBTQ characters in the lore section just to be branded as a social justice warrior with an agenda.

I hope you're prepared for 99% of the posts in your topic attempting to discredit you as a feminazi.

I'm gay.

I don't see why we need LGBT characters in the lore? Sure, it would be fine, but with how horribly written most of the lore is and how little we know of each character and the fact that one's sexuality does not matter, at all, as they are either Killers or people trying to Survive. I feel it would just be pandering and to "check" a box.

Do any of the characters even have defined sexuality? From what I remember I don't think any of the Lore defines any of the characters as straight, or anything else.

It doesn't but perverts are always trying to ruin things by sexualizing everything, its sick.

TheLegendDyl4n1

@Wolf74 said:
Can we get that as a skin for her please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcHOGTzdFf4

prepare for the ban hammer my brotha

TheLegendDyl4n1

i mean they could add more wraping around her just for the sake of people who think it is a little too revealing and to someone who doesnt play this like a parent who saw thier kid playing this and saw that they might not let them play anymore because of how revealing she is. kids can play this game too not just adults

ChesterTheMolester

TheLegendDyl4n1 said:

i mean they could add more wraping around her just for the sake of people who think it is a little too revealing and to someone who doesnt play this like a parent who saw thier kid playing this and saw that they might not let them play anymore because of how revealing she is. kids can play this game too not just adults

Kids should not play this game. And if some tits are the main reason some parents take away their game in contrast to the rest of the game then i question their parenting skills. And sanity.

Volfawott

Lyinginbedmon said:

@SIX said:
Actually, nudity is very common in Horror movies

I'm well aware, but not because it's a horror element.

To explain, the common elements of horror (ie. the things we put in movies because they scare people) are things that are frequently deemed inappropriate for younger audiences. Death is a big no-no in that regard, as are most forms of gore, and this results in horror movies being rated fairly mature.

Similarly, for one reason or another, nudity and sex are also deemed inappropriate for younger audiences and are rater mature. This creates overlap in that movies with one or the other are likely to be vying for much of the same audience. Once your movie achieves a mature rating, it's difficult to go back down, so it's been common practice instead to add more things relegated to that rating to expand your audience and draw in a larger crowd.

Nudity isn't in horror movies because it's scary (barring one specific and rare phobia), it's in horror movies because it sells.

Also, just to point something out: It's almost exclusively the victims that are nude, not the killers.

Well for the most part the original use of nudity and sex in horror films was to be immoral black mark for younger viewers kind of like subtle manipulating.

Teenagers who partook in sex, alcohol and drugs were often the ones that were killed by the slasher whilst those who didn't were more likely to survive.

This is why the final girl archetype existed the girl who never actively got involved in drugs, drinking or sex. 

Over the years as promiscuous teenagers became less of a moral outrage and more of a selling point they started to alter how sex is actually shown. This is much more noticeable if you compare older horror movies to newer ones you'll notice it's gone from simple making out and maybe mild clothed rubbing to full on tits and ass.

Lyinginbedmon

@Aari_Piggy66 said:
Lyinginbedmon said:

@SIX said:

Actually, nudity is very common in Horror movies

I'm well aware, but not because it's a horror element.

To explain, the common elements of horror (ie. the things we put in movies because they scare people) are things that are frequently deemed inappropriate for younger audiences. Death is a big no-no in that regard, as are most forms of gore, and this results in horror movies being rated fairly mature.

Similarly, for one reason or another, nudity and sex are also deemed inappropriate for younger audiences and are rater mature. This creates overlap in that movies with one or the other are likely to be vying for much of the same audience. Once your movie achieves a mature rating, it's difficult to go back down, so it's been common practice instead to add more things relegated to that rating to expand your audience and draw in a larger crowd.

Nudity isn't in horror movies because it's scary (barring one specific and rare phobia), it's in horror movies because it sells.

Also, just to point something out: It's almost exclusively the victims that are nude, not the killers.

Well for the most part the original use of nudity and sex in horror films was to be immoral black mark for younger viewers kind of like subtle manipulating.

Teenagers who partook in sex, alcohol and drugs were often the ones that were killed by the slasher whilst those who didn't were more likely to survive.

This is why the final girl archetype existed the girl who never actively got involved in drugs, drinking or sex. 

Over the years as promiscuous teenagers became less of a moral outrage and more of a selling point they started to alter how sex is actually shown. This is much more noticeable if you compare older horror movies to newer ones you'll notice it's gone from simple making out and maybe mild clothed rubbing to full on tits and ass.

Correct, it's very much inherited the morality-policing aspect of most folklore. "Behave or the goblins will eat you" etc. have been a standard for centuries, but the interest in moral virtue as a means to salvation in horror legends had a huge boost when religion got a hold of it. This has then carried over into horror media today.

ChesterTheMolester

Aari_Piggy66 said:

Lyinginbedmon said:

@SIX said:
Actually, nudity is very common in Horror movies

I'm well aware, but not because it's a horror element.

To explain, the common elements of horror (ie. the things we put in movies because they scare people) are things that are frequently deemed inappropriate for younger audiences. Death is a big no-no in that regard, as are most forms of gore, and this results in horror movies being rated fairly mature.

Similarly, for one reason or another, nudity and sex are also deemed inappropriate for younger audiences and are rater mature. This creates overlap in that movies with one or the other are likely to be vying for much of the same audience. Once your movie achieves a mature rating, it's difficult to go back down, so it's been common practice instead to add more things relegated to that rating to expand your audience and draw in a larger crowd.

Nudity isn't in horror movies because it's scary (barring one specific and rare phobia), it's in horror movies because it sells.

Also, just to point something out: It's almost exclusively the victims that are nude, not the killers.

Well for the most part the original use of nudity and sex in horror films was to be immoral black mark for younger viewers kind of like subtle manipulating.

Teenagers who partook in sex, alcohol and drugs were often the ones that were killed by the slasher whilst those who didn't were more likely to survive.

This is why the final girl archetype existed the girl who never actively got involved in drugs, drinking or sex. 

Over the years as promiscuous teenagers became less of a moral outrage and more of a selling point they started to alter how sex is actually shown. This is much more noticeable if you compare older horror movies to newer ones you'll notice it's gone from simple making out and maybe mild clothed rubbing to full on tits and ass.

Also worth mentioning that when (old school christian -) conservatism in the US started to slowly but steadily decrease the movies started to shift their tone in general. You might even argue that slashers turned from a horror sub genre to a comedy genre
(F13 series, Nightmare on Elm Street and Texas Chainsaw Massacre sequels, Evil Dead etc.).
Most likely cause they atleast in part still tried to generate money out of infamy.

azazer

Mc_Harty said:

@Wahara said:
No one else? @Orion , possibly? @powerbats ?

whistles

click click click

Come on. Don't be shy, I won't hurt you.

I'd especially appreciate @azazer . I got my pimp hand ready for you, boy.

You know if you're going to act cocky, you might as well tag them.

Don't worry... I'll do it for you since you suddenly forgot how after tagging me in a different thread.

Strange... it's almost like you enjoy talking ######### behind posters back.

Ha ha @Wahara thinking you're big and bad talking smack on the internet. What's more mc_harty is spot on. Trying to have the last word and not tag anyone is like muttering under your breath after you walked away. You're a sanctimonious NPC with garbage opinions. Everyone else in the gaming community can enjoy the game without getting a stiffy for a corps made of pixels. The fact that you don't makes you the deviant. You're a social Don Quixote seeing imaginary problems, demanding we fix the non existent issue, and when we kindly respond you to get bent pretend like the issue is with us. Don't bother tagging me after you couldn't do it the last time you aren't worth the seconds it would take to read your response 

Wahara

chuckle

I didn't think the tags would be necessary considering this thread has a whopping 5 pages already. This topic is where the buzz is. You can assume I'm a coward or maybe...you can assume I made a pretty reasonable guess that you'd be paying attention?

I didn't even have to get my pimp hand ready. Look at that. All that anger with no substance. It's beautiful. No attempt to actually address a point or form a structured argument. Speaking of which, did you know that the attitude you receive directly corresponds to the attitude that you come off with? It's crazy #########, huh?

powerbats

@MandyTalk @Peanits Would you mind dealing with this very obvious flame bait thread please? Also to those threatening other users with the ban hammer just stop.

Jack11803

@Wahara said:
chuckle

I didn't think the tags would be necessary considering this thread has a whopping 5 pages already. This topic is where the buzz is. You can assume I'm a coward or maybe...you can assume I made a pretty reasonable guess that you'd be paying attention?

I didn't even have to get my pimp hand ready. Look at that. All that anger with no substance. It's beautiful. No attempt to actually address a point or form a structured argument. Speaking of which, did you know that the attitude you receive directly corresponds to the attitude that you come off with? It's crazy #########, huh?

At least he’s capable of making characters out of others. A character not being specified as gay apparently causes the sky to fall. But exclusively for you as you try to make it everyone else’s problem.

Fibijean

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
i mean they could add more wraping around her just for the sake of people who think it is a little too revealing and to someone who doesnt play this like a parent who saw thier kid playing this and saw that they might not let them play anymore because of how revealing she is. kids can play this game too not just adults

This game is not for kids. It's explicitly rated as being not for kids, which means it's actually illegal to buy this game for a kid. So while I'm more or less on OP's side I feel the need to call out that line of thinking.

ChesterTheMolester

Actually im just gonna say this: 
If you wanna change her current outfit to fit your standards, then stop playing because it shouldn't change just cause you dont like it.

If you want an optional cosmetic for free that is less revealing then i have no problem with that request.

Wahara

@ChesterTheMolester said:
Actually im just gonna say this: 
If you wanna change her current outfit to fit your standards, then stop playing because it shouldn't change just cause you dont like it.

If you want an optional cosmetic for free that is less revealing then i have no problem with that request.

I'll sprinkle a bit of love on this post.

It's not that difficult to be reasonable. :chuffed:

Attackfrog

What does LGBTQ or gender or nudity have to do with this game? Is there some story line I am missing or political message I missed?

We are playing a game about humans trapped in a hellscape with murderous creatures and each game they are impaled on hooks or bled out through the use of chainsaws, hammers, knives and other utensils (Depicted quite graphically) Isn't our infatuation with virtual brutal murder a more relevant issue (as it applies to this game) than the killers' clothing?

And if female clothing is wrong, how would having a half nude male killer make it right? Does swinging the pendulum in the opposite direction make it right for you?

Jesus. Just play the game and make the social injustice arguments on a forum that might actually draw attention from folks who can make a change.

This is dead by daylight. Not the UN.

Malakir

Lyinginbedmon said:

As I've noted, the sarashi are traditional clothing but they would have been out of fashion for at least 80 years by Rin's time. One might as well expect the Nurse to be wearing a petticoat.

The likelihood that she was trained in katana usage by her father are extremely remote. In addition to her father being overworked for 20 years in his company, we know what era Rin is from. She most likely died in the late 90s, early 2000s at most, which puts her over a century into modern Japan and a good 2-3 generations into post-war Japan. Even in historical Japan, she'd more likely have learned kyudo (Japanese archery) and even then most probably only if she was actually a temple miko.

With regards to her inspirations, every single one of them involves a fully-clothed woman, right down to the Onryo who were always depicted in full burial kimonos. There's no influence for her that includes her extent of exposure.

Freddy has been a child molester since his inception, it just got more and more overt as the series progressed.

I never said that Freddy and the Clown abuse the Spirit, I simply noted the poor decision of putting a naked young woman in the same game, the same side even, as two adult male sexual predators.

True you never said it ( so you made that video..) But you imply that even now. I know its difficult but if you imply that its not much different than saying it just then to back off when someone points it out.

Yeah "inspiration", another hard word. If I inspire a lady magician to another that fully clothed I can make her semi nude if I want. I know not every body get what a designer or artist is sometimes but I was used to be a designer and if you get inspired of something doesn't mean you MUST follow exactly the trend, not at all. Like the gwynevere example, she should've not been in the game because unfit and too busty for the series by the author addictions but he accepted the DESIGNER work because he was so proud of it.

then if I can't change things if I get inspired by something this whole game shouldn't exist in the first place

PigMainBigBrain

@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
i mean they could add more wraping around her just for the sake of people who think it is a little too revealing and to someone who doesnt play this like a parent who saw thier kid playing this and saw that they might not let them play anymore because of how revealing she is. kids can play this game too not just adults

Except this game is not for kids, and regardless of what SJWs, Wood-burrow Baptists, or corrupt chinese censorship regimes say.......

You shouldn't censor Mature content, from a game rated for Mature players.... <------ I want to bring special attention to Mature Players. As the mental maturity level of the OP, and some of these other posts rings of stunted growth. Its just common sense, if you aren't mature enough to handle a mature game... I recommend playing something else more suitable for children. I mean, its akin to going to some museum and the statue is of a nude cupid, and some dumbass kid says "TEHEE HEE YOU CAN SEE THAT STATUES....PENIS!" <----omg HE SAID PENIS! LOLOLOL PENIS AND SEX! LOLOL HE SAID SEX LOLOL! Like seriously grow up.

https://www.roblox.com/games/142823291/Murder-Mystery-2

I would recommend hello kitty, but that line is unrealistic. Roblox is a game for kids and all ages. Its wholesome good clean fun for all your friends and family. You can all join in on good christian fun. Where its never ok to be a meanie. And theres no such thing as death, just OOF sounds. And absolutely no cursing, and no blood, no sex, no nudity, and everyone is a lego man so no real violence! Roblox is a community full of children, so anyone with the maturity level of a teenager who is sensitive to dark topics or graphic content can play Roblox without fear of getting in trouble from their parents even if you're 35 years old and still living with your parents.

No seriously...if you lack the maturity level to handle all the content in this game, go play roblox...I'm serious...you'll have a much better time in life as it seems you are not yet ready to leave the nest.

Wahara

I don't really know how to phrase it better than this. Here's my best shot.

Hey, guys! Did you know we live in a world where women get raped and assaulted on a pretty frequent basis? I know, it's nuts. Who would have thought? (I'm just using the super conservative estimate of 1 in 7 just so I don't trigger people. Sssh. ) Maybe that doesn't seem like a high enough number for you to care, so to put it in perspective, it means that there is almost a 100% probability that several people you know and love have been violated in a heinous way. Unless, of course, you just don't know any women or never come into contact with them.

Is it reasonable to assume then, that these 1/7 women who play dead by daylight, may have, say, I don't know, a high likelihood of being put off by a brutalized, near naked woman who's breasts are also cut? Not put off in a "Gosh, this is so scary kind of way." not even in a "Gosh, I am so offended, how DARE they have a character who shows any skin!" kind of way, but put off in a "Gosh, this is tapping into a great deal of emotional pain" sort of way? And if you do agree that is reasonable to assume, wouldn't the denial of a simple request to remedy that problem, such as a more fully clothed skin, make you a giant #########?

That's all.

Volfawott

Can we all not be out each other's necks. 

Also if anyone is an angry lesbain @Wahara
it's me.

Wahara

Let's do crimes together.

Sassy

Enough.

OP, your feedback about clothing options for The Spirit has been passed along.

This thread is going down a road with a dead end sign.

Locking.