Re-Balancing (Almost) Every Survivor Perk
The meta in the game could use a real shake-up. Here's my idea on re-balancing most of the survivor perks, so that survivors have more viable options.
As a foreword, these are just my ideas, not actual implemented changes. No "BuT KillERS, SUrviVORS oP," I will make a post like this for killer perks as well in the near future.
Let's jump in!
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- Ace In The Hole -
- After retrieving an item from a chest, select 3 of 4 randomly generated add-ons of rare quality or greater. Allows for the use of 3 add-ons. Increases luck by 3%.
- Adrenaline - (no change)
- Aftercare -
- After unhooking or another survivor unhooks you, or you heal a survivor or another survivor heals you, you will see each other's auras. When hooked, survivors who could previously see your aura gain a 10% increase to healing, sabotage, and unhooking actions until you are unhooked. Aftercare resets once you are unhooked.
- Alert -
- When the killer breaks a pallet, wall, or generator, their aura, as well as the aura of the broken object is revealed for 6 seconds.
- Any Means Necessary -
- Reduced cooldown to 30 seconds.
- Appraisal -
- Start the trial with 3 tokens. Consume 1 token to rummage through an already opened chest for an item 80% faster. For each generator completed, regain a token. Increases luck by 3%
- Autodidact -
- Start the trial with a -25% penalty to healing skill checks. Each successful skill check grants an additional 15% progression bonus for hitting healing skill checks, up to 5 tokens. Guarantees at least 1 healing skill check every 15 seconds.
- Babysitter -
- After unhooking another survivor, the rescued survivor will not leave scratch marks or pools of blood until they are healed or the survivor who unhooked is downed. Reveals the killers aura to both survivors for 5 seconds.
- Balanced Landing - (no change)
- Better Together -
- Survivors will see the auras the generator as well as all other survivors within 32 meters. If the killer downs a survivor, all survivors working on the same generator will see the auras of all survivor for 10 seconds.
- Blood Pact -
- While not the Obsession, see the Obsession's aura. After healing them, move 7% faster while within 16 meters of each other. While the Obsession, heal all other survivors 20% faster.
- Boil Over -
- Struggle sway is increased by 75%. Obscures the auras of all hooks while being carried.
- Bond -
- The auras of any survivors within 40 meters are revealed to you.
- Borrowed Time - (dev change)
- Botany Knowledge -
- Healing speed and med-kit efficiency is increased by 40%.
- Breakdown -
- After being unhooked or unhooking another survivor, the hook is broken for 180 seconds and reveals the killer's aura for 6 seconds. Increases luck by 3%.
- Breakout - (no change)
- Buckle Up -
- Determine the progress of survivors' ground recovery by aura intensity. After healing a survivor from the dying state, they gain the Endurance status effect for 8 seconds. Reveal the killer's aura to both survivors for 6 seconds.
- Built to Last -
- Your item will have its charges replenished by 50% for each generator completed.
- Calm Spirit -
- Do not alert crows or scream. The auras of any survivors or the killer who disturbed crows within 24 meters will be revealed for 5 seconds..
- Camaraderie -
- Gain a token when a survivor is hooked. For each time a survivor is hooked, you gain 5 additional seconds of hook time. If multiple survivors are on the hook at once, gain 10 additional seconds for each survivor.
- Dance With Me -
- After performing a rushed action, you leave no scratch marks for 7 seconds. 30 second cooldown.
- Dark Sense -
- When a generator is completed, see the killer's aura for 10 seconds. When the last generator is completed, see the killer's aura for 20 seconds.
- Dead Hard - (no change)
- Deception -
- Interact with a locker while running to trigger a loud noise and erase your scratch marks for 5 seconds. 25 second cooldown.
- Decisive Strike - (no change / reduce timer to 30 seconds, timer pauses while being chased and on the ground, deactivates when another survivor is downed)
- Deja Vu -
- Reveals the auras of the three generators closest to each other at all times. While on one of the highlighted generators, the auras of your teammates are revealed.
- Deliverance - (no change)
- Desperate Measures - (no change)
- Detective's Hunch -
- After a generator is completed, generators, totems, and chests within 64 meters of that location have their auras revealed for 20 seconds.
- Distortion -
- Start the trial with 3 tokens. A token is consumed each time your aura would have been revealed, it is hidden and scratch marks are erased for 10 seconds. Regain a token when a generator is completed. If your aura is revealed due to cooperative interactions, your teammate's aura is also hidden.
- Diversion -
- After being chased by a killer for 15 seconds, Diversion activates. Activating Diversion will remove your scratch marks for 3 seconds and create a loud noise notification from 20 meters which will leave behind scratch marks.
- Empathy - (no change)
- Fast Track - (no change)
- Fixated - (no change)
- Flip-Flop -
- 100% of recovery progress is converted to wiggle progress, up to a maximum of 75%. After escaping the killer's grasp, gain the Endurance status effect for 10 seconds.
- Pharmacy -
- Unlock chests 80% faster. The unlocking sound is silenced. Produces an Emergency Med-Kit each time you open a chest.
- Open-Handed -
- You and your team reads auras from an additional 16 meters. Increases luck by 3%.
- Off the Record -
- Being unhooked or unhooking another survivor will not trigger a loud noise. The unhooked survivor and survivor who unhooked will not have their auras revealed, leave scratch marks, blood trails, or grunt from pain for 40 seconds.
- Object of Obsession - (dev proposed change)
- No One Left Behind -
- Once the exit gates are powered, the auras of all survivors are revealed to each other. Gain a 50% action speed bonus to unhooking and healing other survivors. Open exit gates 5% for each healthy survivor, for a maximum of 20%. See the location of exit gates at all times. Grants 100% bonus bloodpoints in the Altruism category.
- No Mither -
- You begin the trial healthy. You leave no blood trails and breathing and grunts of pain are reduced by 50% You can recover yourself from the dying state. After recovering yourself from the dying state, you become broken for the remainder of the trial. While broken, breathing and grunts of pain are reduced by 100%.
- Mettle of Man -
- Your aura is no longer revealed while healed after Mettle of Man activates.
- Lucky Break -
- While injured, Lucky Break will prevent you from bleeding for 120 seconds. If healed during this time, the duration of Lucky Break will reset.
- Lithe - (no change)
- Lightweight -
- Your scratch marks fade 4 seconds sooner. Footstep volume is decreased by 50%.
- Left Behind -
- ???
- Leader -
- When survivors are within 16 meters of you, their healing, sabotage, totem cleansing, chest unlocking, and exit gate opening is increased by 25%. The effect lingers for 15 seconds outside of Leader's range.
- Kindred - (no change)
- Iron Will - (no change)
- Inner Strength - (no change)
- Hope -
- For each generator completed, gain a stackable 1% movement speed bonus for 30 seconds. When the last generator is completed or the exit gates are powered, gain 3%, for a maximum of 7%, until the trial ends.
- Head On - (no change)
- For the People - (no change)
- Plunderer's Instinct -
- The auras of all chests are revealed to you. The speed at which you unlock chests is increased by 50%. Grants a better chance at finding an item of higher rarity.
- Poised -
- The repair progress of generators is converted to 200% healing progress for yourself and all survivors working on the generator. You do not leave scratch marks within 12 meters of completed generators.
- Power Struggle -
- Reduced wiggle requirement to 20%.
- Premonition -
- 5 seconds after escaping a chase from a killer, see the auras of the killer and all survivors for 5 seconds. 30 second cooldown.
- Prove Thyself - (no change)
- Quick and Quiet -
- Don't make a loud noise when performing a rushed action. 15 second cooldown.
- Red Herring -
- After being chased for 20 seconds, and running past a vault location, press the rushed action button to create a loud noise notification at a vault and a 20 meter trail of scratch marks, while hiding your own scratch marks for 5 seconds.
- Repressed Alliance -
- After repairing a generator for 60 seconds, Repressed Alliance activates. Activating Repressed Alliance on a generator blocks it from all interaction for 45 seconds. Reactivating Repressed Alliance will automatically remove 5 seconds from the timer and unblock the generator.
- Resilience - (no change)
- Saboteur -
- Saboteur does not deactivate until you fully sabotage a hook.
- Second Wind -
- Second Wind will work with med-kits and Autodidact. Second Wind will automatically heal you once the Broken Status ends if you would have otherwise been healed earlier. Reduce heal time to 10 seconds.
- Self-Care - (no change)
- Self-Preservation -
- Increased range to 20 meters.
- Slippery Meat - (no change)
- Small Game - (dev change)
- Smash Hit - (no change)
- Sole Survivor -
- When a teammate dies, gain a 25% progression bonus to generators, healing, sabotage, totem cleansing, exit gate opening, and chest unlocking for 60 seconds. You become the Obsession.
- Solidarity -
- Healing another survivor will also heal yourself if injured at a 100% conversion rate.
- Soul Guard - (no change)
- Spine Chill - (no change)
- Sprint Burst - (no change)
- Stake Out -
- Being within the killer's Terror Radius for 15 seconds grants a token. Hitting a good skill check will grant a 1% progression bonus on generators. Hitting a great skill check grants a 2% progression bonus. Consumes a token when succeeding a skill check.
- Streetwise -
- Start the trial with 25% item efficiency. For each survivor hooked, gain an additional 2%.
- Technician -
- Generator repair noises, and the failing of generator skill checks are silenced while working on them. Failing a skill check applies an additional 3% regression penalty.
- Tenacity - (no change)
- This Is Not Happening -
- After being injured by the killer, gain an additional second of speed increase. Become Exhausted for 25 seconds.
- Up the Ante -
- For each survivor still living, all survivors gain a stackable 4% luck increase, up to a max of 12%.
- Unbreakable - (no change)
- Urban Evasion - (no change)
- Vigil -
- Recover from Exhaustion while running at 40% of the speed. Blindess, Mangled, and Hemorrhage status effects that would have otherwise been permanent will fade and any temporary negative statuses will fade 20% faster. This applies to all allies within 16 meters of you.
- Visionary -
- Generators within 32 meters have their auras revealed to you. Each time a generator is completed, see your teammates’ auras for 16 seconds.
- Windows of Opportunity - (no change)
- We're Gonna Live Forever - (no change)
- We'll Make It - (no change)
- Wake Up! -
- Each time a generator is completed, gain a 15% movement speed increase for 10 seconds.
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I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this.
Comments
I know this is rough to tell you, but this isn't gonna catch on. You'll get maybe a 100 views if you're lucky, not a lot of people like to read this type of stuff, which is a real shame.
Don't really care too much how many views it gets. Was just bored and wanted to engage in some conversation with peeps who wanna see some perk redesign so that the meta could be really shaken up.
You won't get that either likely, I know because I've made some myself and they never catch on. Personally I'm a killer main so I can't bring much to the conversation but I just wanted to let you know that these don't get popular since I've experienced it myself.
Well it'd tell you if they're just preparing if it's a wall, in a chase if it's pallet, or pressuring gens if well it's a generator. Pallet and Generator have the same kick animation so you won't know which one they kicked unless you're nearby and can see for yourself, also the knowledge of which walls have been broken can assist you in your chases later. It's only a small buff but it'd a nice QoL change.
Went ahead and gave you a vote up. I want to see the meta changed. The reason why it doesn't change is because of the constant whining on meta perks and BHVR + the forums not caring about these things.
75% percent of these I agree with, LOVE the Lucky Break change AND the Steve perk reworks, the older perks absolutely need to be buffed to keep up with meta perks and newer perks as they come out. I had a similar idea for Vigil with being able to recover from Exhausted while running, plus I saw the bit about recover from permanent status effects. How about maybe adding the ability to "shield" from stuff like NOED's Exposed like a Reddit post suggested instead of revealing teammates auras?
However, a few I don't agree with is Any Means Necessary's nerf. I mean no offense but... this isn't really necessary, this perk is barely used as it is. It needs buffs if anything. I also noticed that you didn't propose anything for Red Herring. Did you not know of how you could improve it, or did you think it was fine? I personally feel like it needs a buff or something, it's too mediocre as it is now.
Also. Sole Survivor still seems too weak. Maybe adjust the effect to work around hooks instead, since a teammate needing to die for this perk to work is a bit... meh still.
Up the Ante should also be buffed higher or reworked, since luck is worthless and was made even more redundant by having it no longer work with Trapper's traps.
I was actually planning to make a thread that focused on buffing Survivor obsession perks to be a alternative to DS to make sure obsessions keep getting created, I suppose I won't need to for now. :P
I made a post on this account not too long after I made it 10 months ago that was similar to this one.
No one commented on it :(
Exactly, sometimes I invested hours into coming up with an idea and writing it down to not even get a single upvote. People just don't have the attention span to read something long unless it's controversial.
Nope, additional reveal time as well as showing whether it was a breakable wall, pallet, or generator to give more accurate information! :)
Thx for the upvote!! :)
Entirely preventing a killer's status effect is pretty strong, especially for something like NOED. I'm not exactly sure of how to go about it, and it will need to be very fine-tuned to make sure it doesn't outright disable killers like Ghostie, Doctor, or Clown.
Initially, I wanted to just do away with the cooldown of Any Means Necessary entirely, as killers break most pallets immediately. However, perks either need to have a downside or be a reward for doing something good, I acknowledged, and so Any Means can be used as many times you want, but it also will inflict Hindered so that there is some downside and will be risky to use near the killer. Cooldown is gone! Hindered could be considered a nerf due to it being 10%, but I think that it's better than having a cooldown.
Yes, I honestly had no idea how to change Red Herring to be useful while keeping the spirit of the perk (also it was 4 AM and I was tired of stretching my brain). Ideas would be much appreciated! Definitely needs a buff.
I thought my Sole Survivor change would actually be seen as too strong, woah! That's one entire minute of a commodious toolbox and leader after your teammate dies. Gens and other actions would be super fast if you aren't being chased!
I initially wanted to do away with luck entirely, and with the Trapper update, the devs seem to want to as well. However, I think that luck shoud be more embraced in the game and be added to more mechanics. Dispersing luck throughout more perks such as Ace in the Hole, Appraisal, and others is my attempt at making luck bigger than it is and proposing that luck also be added to additional mechanics. I have some ideas, but I'll make a separate thread for them.
Post your ideas here if you want, perhaps you have a better one. This can be a collective effort!! :)))
flipflop should be 1:1 but keep the max at 50%
Maybe a max of 60-75%. In my opinion, 50% is definitely too low to get any consistent use out of it. Even when I fully recover with Flip Flop, I still get hooked more times than not.
The idea was that people, including the Vigil user, could maybe be protected from "permanent" status effects like NOED's Exposed, I think. We could just balance it so that it doesn't work with Ghosty's expose or Clown's ability or major Killer powers due to how it creates a exposed timer on the Survivor's icon. (Ghosty can also use his power without exposing others either btw)
And, yeah, I think I get what you mean, but the only problem with perks "needing" to have a downside or reward is exactly how you end up with perks with unnecessary cooldowns or perks that have a bunch of conditions. I've always wanted more perks that just give straight benefits like Streetwise and Unrelenting. I feel like there was a obsession (pun intended) for several chapters at BHVR a while back around the time of Stranger Things, with perks needing to be activated and it's quite... stale.
Personally, I feel like Any Means just needs a cooldown reduction to like... 30 or 40 seconds at tier 3, and then it's fine, since this perk clearly isn't broken despite everyone's concerns at the beginning. Breaking pallets is almost always what you're supposed to do as Killer anyways. Maybe one less second to reset a pallet too, but it's good with just the cooldown reduced or with your suggestion applying.
I also had a rework today for Red Herring:
Upon working on generators for the equivalent of 80%/60%/40% regression, Red Herring activates for 60 seconds. You see the auras of all generators in red and can see the auras of all Survivors working on generators. While looking at a aura, "select" a generator's aura while standing still with the Activate Ability button. This will cause the aura to turn green. Stepping into a locker and pressing the "Activate Ability" button will cause the selected generator to display a loud noise notification for the Killer and deactivate Red Herring.
And, well, the effect is definitely much better, but a Survivor needing to die is the problem with the perk as it is. It's a perk that only works if you're losing big time, which makes it not as effective as it sounds. If you're winning or the problems only start closer to the end, some of the effectiveness goes down. I would rather have this version than the one we have now though.
I also agree with either getting rid of luck or embracing it further. I'd love if it luck offerings were buffed too. Vigo's only gives a whopping 1%/2% luck increase despite it being a "very rare" offering.
Mmm, increase the max to 60 or 70%, hooks are almost always nearby and/or you won't be slugged long enough to get it to 50% without perks. Needing extra perks to make one perk good is problematic and why these perks don't get run over BT, which doesn't need other perks to be used effectively.
Why everyone thinks adrenaline is fine? It has no downsides and you get two bonuses from it...
To anyone saying "it rewards doing gens" first... doesn't reward YOU for doing gens... so basically you could be hiding in a bush,and someone else could himself/ herself, doing gens and you still get a reward for it, it's unfair if you get an advantage when you have done nothing to get it.
Second: Even if the killers kills everyone with just a single gen done, if the killer closes the hatch, you receive adrenaline, you have been rewarded even if you didn't fulfill your objective.
Third: It ignores exhaustion, so you can use even a perk like sprint or dead hard and get an use for it.
Fourth: It gives you a heal state completely for free without a downside.
As I said, in the case you helped with gens or the progression of the match it's cool, but when you did nothing, you don't deserve to get a benefit from it.
50% can have an impact too. there are certain spots where the killer cant physically take you to a hook without you wiggling off.
some good examples are the basement on springwood, 2nd floors on haddonfield, rooftop entrance on midwich...
id say it should get a max of 60% and 1:1 conversion
A compromise of 60% or preferably 70-75% is good, but 50% is too situational for this perk to be considered okay for solo queuers. "Certain spots" is not enough for Flip-Flop to be okay or good on it's own. Remember that Flip-Flop already requires that you be slugged for long enough to reach 50%. This already isn't effective unless the Killer slugs. But then you'll probably get picked up by a Survivor before the Killer picks you up.
Honestly, Flip-Flop might need extra dying recovery speed built into it if we keep it at 50 or move it to 60%. Maybe 10% to 20% extra speed.
yeah 50% is too situational. i usually get to 99% and then want to kill myself because i pressed da instead of ad for 1 second.
Most of these perks just aren't balanced
wake up makes almost every killer instantly lose a chase if a gen is completed
ace in the hole giving syptics, syringes, and brand new parts as well as 3 addon slots breaks balancing chests
appraisal giving up to 8 items from 1 perk, + ace in the hole can easily give you 5+ extra broken items toolboxes with bnps medkits with purples and reds, and keys, just no to either of these
also pharmacy giving a ton of medkits is just, not balanced
if a team really wanted to they could stack those 3 and make 64 items in the trial not counting extra chests and what they brought with them
including 36 guaranteed green medkits that only have a 5% chance not to have a syringe or syptic agent on them on top of a fast heal
Permanent statuses like Devour's or NOED's exposed effect and other things that the killer has worked for should not be able to be completely avoided, in my opinion. Perhaps a small window of time in which they don't effect you (if you fulfill a certain condition), but completely disabled is not something I'd like. I'd also rather have that as a separate perk (which means that I should update my wording in the original post to be more clear).
Maybe Any Means could be shortened to as low as 20 seconds, or be activated with a different condition (such as escaping or being in a chase for a certain amount of time).
I don't think the problem with Red Herring is the method of activation as much as it is what the perk actually does. Just a simple loud noise bait is not very effective and I would not use it over many of the perks we currently have. This actually gave me an idea, after thinking more about what a Red Herring actually is. Something such as scratch marks appearing in a different location while removing your own would be a great perk idea!
I think a perk that can potentially save your team from a losing scenario is a really fresh perk idea and one that would fit in. Yes, it only works in losing situations, but that's really the point. If a player thinks they may lose a teammate along the way, this perk could be put on to help them out.
If the killer is doing good then Adrenaline shouldn't come into play.
Most people don't hide in bushes for the entire game, even at low ranks. Even if they didn't Adrenaline won't really do anything for them since they weren't in danger to begin with.
Adrenaline is a pretty good and balanced perk, IMO.
It's not... it can reward you for nothing you have done.
Personally I think the Wake Up idea is fine. It does give a big benefit but only will really effect killers if the survivor with Wake Up is getting chased, and it's only 15 seconds. Rewards survivors for doing objectives but only will come into play if that survivor is getting chased.
There are only 3 chests by default. An extra styptic or syringe is just an extra heal, which is not that big of a deal. It could also potentially just be a flashlight, or extra charges.
If a survivor team pulls 64 items out of a chest, they're definitely spending more times on chests than they are on gens, which is a good thing for killers.
Ace in the Hole with Appraisal wouldn't effect the rarity of the item, you'd still need Plunderer's, so it's unlikely for a Dull or Skeleton Key to be pulled. It's still likely that the survivor would just get something like a yellow flashlight or toolbox. Dedicating 3 perks to a non-objective is not efficient.
With the Pharmacy change, there would only be 4 Emergency Med-Kits by default, which is not a big deal really. It's four heals for finding and searching chests, which all take time from generators. Also there is no reason a team would need to heal 36 entire times. That all takes time from gens. The purpose of the perk changes were to make it so that they don't need to be stacked. You have better perks that can be used in their place. Stacking said perks would be inefficient.
^^
I have a better change for calm spirit:
Animals seem to trust you as they often stay calm in your presence.
The chances of alerting nearby crows are reduced by 100% and your urge to scream from pain is suppressed
When someone disturbs a crow whether it's a killer or a survivor their aura will be revealed to you for 4/5/6 Seconds Calm spirit goes on a cooldown of 10 seconds
About 70 views so far, and I'm getting some pretty good discussion going on, though I'm not entirely sure why that really matters... I enjoy posting these types of things.
I actually like this idea a lot more, as it aligns more with Spies from the Shadows! Maybe reduce the reveal time to 5 secs though so it'll better align with the cooldown and also have it only be within 32-24 meters?
I'll try this again:
Animals seem to trust you as they often stay calm in your presence.
The chances of alerting nearby crows are reduced by 100% and your urge to scream from pain is suppressed
When someone disturbs a crow within 20/24/28 meters from you whether it's a killer or a survivor their aura will be revealed to you for 5 Seconds
Added in! Thank you, this was a really good idea! :)
Np! :D <3 I wish the devs would see all the changes
I love writeups like this. Here's my response to every one. https://pastebin.com/VA7xrTM0
Edit: Sorry about the bold text, can't figure out how to undo it.
I also love write-ups like this and did something similar myself for every perk in the game a while back. I'll leave what I feel is my most impactful comments.
Firstly, it appears that you choose to balance all perks to roughly the standard of the current meta. That's a bold choice. Because it means almost every perk could be as strong and annoying for killers as BT, Unbreakable, DH, etc. And because survivors get 16 perks in a game and killers get 4, what such perk diversity means for killers is constant fear of the unknown. The one thing that's nice about the survivor meta for killers is that they know what they're probably up against and can mostly work around the meta perks. If every survivor perk is brought up to the standard of the meta, the only way to make that close to fair is by giving killers unbelievably broken perks that are either overwhelmingly powerful in one way, or still very powerful in multiple ways. Which I think would be quite unhealthy or even impossible with the number of killer perks there are. For this reason I believe the design philosophy for survivor perks needs to be that all perks should be less powerful than the current meta.
I love some of your changes and hate other ones. I'll comment on the ones that are the most problematic. If I didn't comment on one then it's probably one I either agree with or don't find immediately and terribly disagreeable.
@bjorksnas was absolutely right about the chest-related perk changes, even after reading your response. You way overtuned these, even Built To Last on it's own scares me for medkits and toolboxes. Plunderer's + Appraisal guarantees keys.
Aftercare - This seems like a nerf? I run the current Aftercare often, and would never run this.
Any Means Necessary - Resetting pallets as often as you want is a no-go, imo. The cost isn't steep enough here.
Breakout - Surprised you didn't buff this at all. It doesn't need a crazy buff, but it needs something, especially with how much you've buffed everything else.
Camaraderie - Also a nerf. Just needs to let other survivors know you have it to be a really strong and good perk in it's current state.
Lithe - You just made Lithe the best exhaustion perk with the extra 5%. It doesn't need a buff.
Off The Record - I can't see two survivors not leaving scratch marks for 80 seconds as anything other than brokenly strong.
Poised - Powerful gen speed perks are a problem. Should maintain it's current purpose, but be better at it.
Red Herring - Definitely in the right mindset here.
Vigil - Recovering from exhaustion while running should be 20% speed at most. It would not be uncommon to see 2 Sprint Bursts in a chase.
Wake Up! - Totally broken, as someone else said. This is great even when you're not the one in chase. Unforgiveable.
Outside of the things I have mentioned in my above comment, I basically agree with this write-up.
This is a lot to go through...
Ace in the Hole: I'm rather confused by what you mean here, but I'd personally make only one change: The guaranteed add-on must be of uncommon, rare or very rare rarity. No commons on the primary add-on. Maybe guarantee the second add-on, too.
Aftercare: Good changes.
Alert: Broken objects can't have an aura, I suspect, so make it the aura of the object that is being broken.
Any Means Necessary: Not a good perk, and not deserving of a nerf, least of all a 10% hinder for a whopping 20 seconds.
Appraisal: I don't think it needs extra tokens.
Autodidact: Couldn't this be farmable if there's two injured survivors near you? Switch from target to target, constantly getting checks? I'd rather give Autodidact 'When healing another survivor without a medkit for 3 seconds, press the active ability button to force a skillcheck. 30 second cooldown.'
Babysitter: Looks good.
Better Together: I like this change a lot as well.
Blood Pact: Very good call, giving it an alternative effect when you are the obsession. I think it can be raised a little though, maybe to 25%. Botany exists, after all.
Boil Over: I don't think this will be relevant, but I also don't think this perk is very salvageable.
Bond: Eh. I don't think the 4 extra meters will do much, but it's a decent enough perk and it could use a little nudge.
Borrowed Time: I think it's a good idea to circumvent undetectable campers.
Botany Knowledge: I don't think it needs the buff. In terms of healing perks, Botany and We'll Make It are probably the absolute best ones.
Breakdown: Making it work when you unhook others definitely gives this perk more applicability and a possibly reasonable kick. Good against campers/tunnellers as well, I think this could be a fun idea.
Buckle Up: Not a bad call tossing endurance in there, in case you're dealing with a slug-camper. While Endurance is a big deal, slug pick-ups are sufficiently uncommon and they're generally extremely counterable, so I think it's a fair trade-off.
Built to Last: Not fond of this one, personally, since it could fire at the wrong moment too easily. I think this should go on a token system, starting you off with one, and allowing you to gain a token per completed generator, up to 3. Possibly with the added stipulation that you cannot restore the same item twice. This could lead to interesting gameplay interactions where Felix can patch up his allies' items.
Calm Spirit: Not a bad call, although it should have an internal cooldown, perhaps 20 seconds.
Camaraderie: I think this misses the point of the perk. It seems to be a semi-anti-camp perk, and I don't think you really get that out of this design. I'm not sure how to resolve this, though.
Dance With Me: 10 seconds might be a bit too much, maybe 5, or 7?
Dark Sense: This one's a bit iffy. I think doubling it could push it too far into oppressive territory. I think I'd rather see this perk stay where it is.
Deception: 5 seconds does seem a bit more functional than 3.
Decisive Strike: Maybe change it to when another survivor is hooked, instead of downed. Don't want your rescuer to accidentally take a hit and cancel out your perk.
Deja Vu: Seeing all your teammates while working on a middle gen might be a bit much. Perhaps, while working on the gen, you can make it light up in yellow to ally survivors?
Desperate Measures: I do think this needs a little boost to compete with Botany. Maybe 1 or 2% more per stack.
Detective's Hunch: Probably fair, takes some of the rush out of it.
Distortion: Something I'd seen mentioned is that it shouldn't trigger when you're hooked or in a locker, since at that point, it doesn't do anything. I think that's more important.
Diversion: I think it's still too difficult to pull this off functionally. I like the way it works right now, it just needs improved activation conditions. Being practically unable to use it during a chase is a problem, because it's not very usable when you're not in a chase either. Perhaps the distance should be increased, so that it is less likely to draw the killer to you. Another thing I think should change is the one token limit. I think you should be able to save multiple charges.
Flip-Flop: 75% -and- Endurance would be too much. I'd take the 75% and leave it there.
Hope: The last charge should not be permanent, as that'd make survivors practically unkillable for some 110 killers. I do like the idea of the slight movespeed boost after fixing a gen though.
Leader: 15 seconds is too long. I think Leader is good where it's at.
Left Behind: As situational as this perk is, I think this is a bad idea. It would almost guarantee a hatch jump, and that can encourage bad play from survivors. It also wouldn't be fair to killers, who should still have a fair hatch competition.
Lightweight: IF this were to get buffed, it needs to go to 4 seconds, max. 5 second reduction would be too much and come dangerously close to eliminating scratch marks altogether.
Lithe: I like it.
Lucky Break: Decent enough buff for a pretty underwhelming perk.
Mettle of Man: The perk probably needs a ton of help, but I'm not sure this is the way to go. Sure, it can take a while to build it up, but having it without drawback after? Not sure I'm feeling that one.
No Mither: I think this is a good idea. At least it makes it so the killer doesn't immediately know the perk is in play.
No One Left Behind: I don't think it deserves the 20% gate speed, that's quite a lot and not entirely in line with the perk's general aim.
Off The Record: I like the idea of removing the loud noise notification for the unhook, but I think that with that in mind, it shouldn't cover all tracks for both the unhooker and the unhooked. It should probably just cover the latter.
Open-Handed: I don't think you can do much about this perk without breaking something, somewhere. Maybe leave it at 8, or bump it to 10.
Pharmacy: Too many medkits. But the silent rummaging could be good. Perhaps it could do with healing item efficiency as well.
Poised: I don't think this is a good call, as it strongly encourages survivors chaining gens together, which teaches them to get themselves 3-genned. Perhaps it should give an additional benefit when you yourself actually work on a gen: For every second spent on it when it is completed, your grunts of pain are stifled and you don't leave blood. Or, alternatively, use the Solidarity effect and make gen repair progress translate into healing progress, so if you fully complete a gen from 0-100 while injured, you get patched up.
Power Struggle: Fair enough.
Premonition: That's not a bad call. Giving this perk some value if you manage to break a chase would be good, but just to be sure, it should be after a delay, and be cancelled when you get back in a chase. Sometimes chase detection is finnicky.
Quick & Quiet: A 5 second cooldown reduction is fair, I think, since this perk is incredibly difficult to pull off.
Red Herring: This would be incredibly difficult to pull off. I think instead, Red Herring should pick a random locker near where you're repairing, outlining it with yellow for all survivors. When activating Red Herring, the loud noise notification occurs at that locker. This solves the problems with the gen being finished, or someone else being on the gen when you activate Red Herring.
Repressed Alliance: It definitely needs the ability to undo the lock, since that would make it a proper counter to Ruin and Pop without risking screwing over your allies.
Saboteur: Fair.
Second Wind: Does it not currently work with medkits and Autodidact? That sounds like an oversight. I don't think it's a good idea to make an earlier heal trigger when you get downed, though, and I don't think 10 seconds is healthy, either. I do think it'd be an interesting concept to have the heal fire if you get downed, but the killer hasn't picked you up before the 20 seconds are up, though.
Self-Preservation: I think that's fair enough. Extending the range might make it to a better job at masking you, since the requirement of being that close defeats the point of obscurity a little bit, as the killer can often just see or hear you directly.
Small Game: I'm for the increased cleanse speed, but against the aura reveal. It'd be too strong and too safe.
Sole Survivor: 20% gen speed bonus is probably too much. Maybe drop that one down to 10%, but keep the rest.
Solidarity: I think that's a fair call, since the perk is pretty conditional and underperforming. If not 100%, then at least 70%.
Stake Out: I think this is a nerf, and it unhooks it from other potential synergies, like Stake Out + Fast Track.
Streetwise: Would it lose the aura? Because if so, I think I'd be against it.
Technician: Don't remove the generator's own noise. It'd be very conspicuous in some cases and depriving the killer of their most valuable intel asset in others.
This Is Not Happening: It might be a bit too much. The difficulty is that the exhaustion doesn't really work as a solid drawback, as you're extremely unlikely to go from healthy to injured again in the next minute. It might be better to just up the on-hit speed by 10%.
Up the Ante: Nothing you can do about this perk. 4% won't be enough to make it worth considering, but good attempt.
Vigil: I think that should be 20% at max, and the cleanse should have a 90 second cooldown. That would make it a very interesting counter to NOED.
Visionary: I don't think it would be enough to make the perk relevant. Quite how to make this perk work properly though, I have no idea. Perhaps a 3% increase to gen repair speed, gaining another 3% per gen completed?
Wake Up!: 15% would be very harsh, I'd be hesitant to risk it with 10%. If that pops mid-chase, the killer literally cannot catch you for 15 seconds! Maybe put it to 5%, and taking off a portion of negative status effect timers?
That's all the feedback I've got for your very extensive list! A couple of these ideas did get me excited and thinking about different types of builds and running new options, so you certainly did a good job!
Hello, thanks for stopping in! Never expected that multiple people would respond to every single idea (;-;), so I've got so much to go through.
With Ace in the Hole, maybe it could be better than Plunderer's. Increased chest opening speed on Plunderer's would be the way to go and maybe even scaling back the add-ons to be a random 3 of uncommon or better, as rare or better may be too much.
Sabotage buff on Aftercare is to have it align with altruistic actions, preventing other teammates to be hooked as easily while your are still on the hook which could potentially stop the killer from gaining a lot more pressure, though this would mostly only come into play with a SWF.
Alert was basically to give a little more info on what exactly was broken, and make up for the time lost on the aura reading from the killer performing the action, similarly to Smash Hit giving an extra second, so that the survivor will have a better idea of where the killer will be going.
In this version, Any Means' cooldown is gone! It can be used multiple times in quick succession, but the trade off is a short Hindered penalty, since this perk really only comes into play outside of chases, it shouldn't be a big deal.
Not exactly sure what further buffs Autodidact needs? My only problem with it ever has been that skill checks are pretty inconsistent. Removing that from the equation makes it a pretty solid perk IMO.
Healing speed on Babysitter could maybe be removed, though I don't entirely agree that it invalidates We'll Make it, as We'll Make It does heal faster and Babysitter is more for if the killer is coming back to the hook. But all survivors getting the healing increase is strong, so it can be removed.
Second part with the beginning of the first part of it is already currently how it works. This is essentially a Bond for all teammates nearby, but only while you are on a generator. My reason for buffing Bond to 40, as it only works for you.
The Terror Radius requirement on BT let's too many killers get away with camping for free, like Ghost Face, Wraith, Myers, Freddy, and Michael sometimes. Should be an anti-camp/tunnel perk consistently.
Breakdown was buffed in this version! Also works on teammates you unhook, though maybe it can be something further?
Total design shifts on perks happen from time to time, see Tinkerer, but my idea was to maintain its spirit (lol). Camaraderie will still extend your time on the hook, but the way that it does is more reliable and can save you much more time.
Maybe DWM can be scaled back to 7 or 8 seconds?
Well, if another survivor got downed, it's likely that you aren't being tunneled anymore, so I tried to keep DS as firmly in the anti-tunnel perk zone as possible.
Hope is a net buff! You'll gain 1-4% movement speed for 30 seconds after a gen is completed each time, and 7% when the last gen is done for the rest of the game. :)
Left Behind does need a design shift, though I have no better ideas.
Your Lightweight idea sounds good, I like it. My thoughts on my version, will make it harder for the killer to continue tracking after losing LOS, since scratch marks are 10 seconds. 3 secs doesn't help much in a chase, but footstep volume reduction might.
No Mither: Damn, didn't even think about 100% matching it to Iron Will. Will change so that it's 50% while unbroken and 100% when broken.
I don't think the NOLB is too powerful, you'll have to survive to the endgame, and it's altruistic actions. 1-2 teammates should be dead by then if the killer is doing good, but IDK...
Hmm... potentially 4 green med-kits... not exactly sure on the balancing of that. I can see why it could be seen as too powerful. Maybe 1 green med-kit every time without the additional item, so it's only 3? 1 Emergency Med-kit only is definitely too weak for a perk slot.
I was actually hesitant to post Poised, but no one had contested it yet. Agree that it would be disgusting for SWF. Gotta think of another useful effect.
For Repressed, subtracts 5 seconds from your remaining active use time. Example: use RA on a gen, 10/45 secs pass, then you unblock it. When you use it again, the perk will consider it as 15/45 seconds. Allows for more aggressive use of the perk.
Small Game should work for trap auras, yup. :)
Stake Out would essentially be Fast-Track but you can use it more often. The effect is lower, yeah, but I would still see it as valuable, especially if you're hitting great skill checks!
I was hesitant to post Technician as well, as gen sounds are pretty important. Maybe fully removing repair sounds, but gens sounds might not be good. Missed check penalty could be lowered as well.
Was really proud of This Is Not Happening. While the effect is pretty short, I didn't want it too be too long, as it could be chase ending, 4 second Sprint Burst + killer attack cooldown, which is why it can be used more often than other Exhaustion perks at only 25 secs. Hesitant to make it any lower or increase the speed boost, but I dunno...
Wake Up could maybe be scaled back to 10 secs. It will only work mid chase but there are a few scenarios in which the killer could still maintain chase, though it definitely would be harder.
That was quite a lot haha. Thanks for your thoughts, will consider them! :)
They are balanced and meta changing, you're just thinking of niche cases like the devs, which is exactly why Demogorgon's perks were nerfed from PTB, because they were "scared of Doctor making them OP".
TC specifically wants to shake up the meta, we're not looking for "overly balanced" perks that nobody wants to run over BT. (Also, TC said Killer perks would be looked at as well.)
Let's get started in breaking this down:
The killer has not worked for NOED. At all. I want to state this before I continue. NOED happens if you're losing, doing bones isn't something done in solo queue because you can't keep track of totems.
I'm fine with it being temporary but keeping it in Vigil. I think the idea was that the effects would only be shielded when you're in the meter radius for Vigil. If someone steps outside of it, Exposed becomes a threat again.
Yeah, it could be shortened to 20 seconds or your idea could be used. The more I think about no cooldown because of how killers break pallets, the more fine it seems.
Loud noise baits are more effective when they're at a gen. If the Killer doesn't have BBQ active, they're reliant on that. The problem is, indeed, method of activation, since you have to run all around the map to get it to activate on a gen that isn't being worked on. Being able to create these distractions while doing the gens that you want to do is stronger. And this also matches what a Red Herring is, since a red herring is a "false lead". A noise notification at a wrong gen matches this description perfectly. My idea allows the Survivor to set off noise notifications without needing to sprint from one end of the map to the other to work on the gen they want to set off.
Problem is: People don't want to run Sole Survivor because it happens when you're losing, in addition to the mediocre effect. So even if it's "fresh", it won't shake up the meta. Red Herring is fresh and yet nobody runs it. It's like it doesn't exist.
Even as it is now, 20% for 60 seconds isn't good enough for a entire teammate dying. Losing one teammate is a tremendous setback for the Survivors and tilts the game in the Killer's favor.
Thanks for stopping in! And no probs, bolding is broken on the forums right now, so I'm not excited to edit this post again lol.
Totally forgot about the healing action on Aftercare as well as it working in reverse, OMG! Thanks for pointing that out, gotta edit the post. ;-;
Hmm... for AMN, others said that my idea was a nerf, but you say that it's a buff. I do think the AMN definitely needs to be buffed in it's current form, but maybe the Hindered penalty isn't a steep enough cost. Will deliberate further on it.
It's really really hard to buff Breakout, any more and it's an almost guaranteed escape every time you bodyblock with it, but it can be pretty useless if Agitation and Iron Grasp are used. The only thing I can think of buffing is the speed boost to be a bit more faster than the killer, but I've otherwise no ideas.
I don't agree that my Camaraderie idea is a nerf, as it is a net increase in time and also works in the first hook stage. The problem with it currently is that it only works if your team knows you have it (useless for solo), and even then, the only situation in which it would be useful is if your teammate comes to the hook and the killer is camping but they escape. If the killer isn't nearby, there's no reason not to unhook.
I agree that Lithe doesn't need a buff. Was testing the waters with the idea since it get's thrown around often and people always say Lithe is one of the worst Exhaustion perks.
Off the Record: 40 seconds? IMO, 20 is too low, will run out shortly after the killer returns to the hook, probably even before.
Yup, agree with Poised.
Running while recovering Exhaustion is pretty good, yeah, but two Sprint Bursts in a chase means that the killer was chasing them for nearly 2 mins, which is the fault of the killer. 20% is a little low, IMO.
Wake Up could be scaled back. ;-;
Thx for thoughts, will implement shortly! :)
don't you know luck does nothing with chest item rarity?
Also no nerfs to meta
I'm all for buffing the objectively useless perks in this game, for both sides of course.
My only complaint is the things involving luck, luck is currently a terrible status to this game, and I think it should be changed.
For someone with a detailed response you sure didn't do a good job reading the source material or understanding the effects the perks can have in game
First of all the 3-4 addons as said by the original post are rare quality or higher, meaning a few things,
1, every looted toolbox will have a brand new part as one of its addons as toolboxes only have 3 rare addons and this guarentees 3 addons on top of being able to have 3 addons equipped
2, every looted medkit having only a 5% chance not to have a syringe / syptic is not fair when you can gaurentee a medkit with every chest search those items easily change the state of a game in a survivors favor just by having one having a gaurenteed mountain of them every match isn't fair
I can understand buffs for the sake of shaking up the meta but completely breaking balance isn't shaking up the meta its just creating a new game with new balancing levels
15% haste status effect makes the survivor untouchable by most of the cast of killers just by holding m1 making chases not progress for 15 seconds and buying a survivor a free escape or free to waste the killers time for a single perk isn't balanced 16/23 of the cast wouldn't have much if any counterplay to this and most of the rest still have a rough time, and this is from a single perk that can trigger 5 times per match at nearly any time based on survivor objective which if the team has communication can be controlled and abused easily
I have nearly 2k hours in this game I have played so many matched from both sides I can pretty much understand every single impact a perk idea can have just by seeing it on paper and I know movement speed is something that should not be tampered with because it can very easily break balance there is a reason hope is only at the end of the game and 7% if you have seen a clip of someone tightly looping around an object vs a huntress with hope you can see them be invincible for 2 minutes and you want this at a higher speed and throughout the game, no
Your idea of balanced is far from fair for both sides, sure if you look at one side of the coin of course you won't think of the impact on the other
I know how strong item can be, ive seen matches loaded with bnps and strong medkits and id rather not see chests become a source of consistent bnps and syringes/syptics as those shift balance heavily in survivor favor sure its no guarantee but it still have heavy potential to just outright win games which should never be the case in balanced game design
My post was just a core sample of overly strong perks and combinations that completely break balance there are plenty more to point out also don't try to speak balance with a detailed response before actually reading the source material
Can't let this topic die, sorry. :)