DS still isn't an anti-tunneling perk and is bad for solo Q.
As someone who mostly plays Solo Q and doesn't use DS, the new nerf doesn't affect me too much.
The only issue I see with it would be in a situation like:
I'm on my last hook and injured, I see with Kindred the killer chasing someone else when someone is on their first hook.
I go to rescue the person on hook, and they refuse to heal me because they don't want to lose their DS, even though I am on my last hook and they aren't.
Anyone who has played solo Q, knows that you get a lot of selfish survivors as team mates, and I feel like with DS deactivating when you heal someone else, it will promote more selfish behaviors. Maybe even make more people bring self care, which IMO isn't ideal.
Another issue I have with DS, is not really with the nerf itself, since in this case it still acts the same way.
Example situation: I get unhooked, I have DS, get tunneled off of hook and get downed. I hit DS. Run the killer a bit more, get downed again and hooked.
Then I get unhooked again, and there's not really much stopping the killer from tunneling me a second time.
I feel like with this new nerf, it would be fair to make DS activate on both hook stages, maybe with a shorter timer (lets say 30 seconds each time).
Disclaimer: I think lately these forums don't really promote healthy discussion, and there's a certain narrative of "x bad y good" being pushed. So with that in mind, I'd like to have an actual intelligent conversation about what can and can't be done about the examples I just stated above.
Comments
When it comes down to it they aren't penalized. What they get points taken away from the emblem system? I doubt they care about such a thing if they're face camping.
Perks should be like that, like survivors are punished for killer perks all the time. Right now, killers are hardly ever punished because all the counterplays are just too convenient. I mean, look how much Tinkerer punishes? Decisive Strike should go back to like it used to be and be fair.
If you can force Nurse/Billy/Blight to use their abilities to catch up without downing you, you can gain extra value from your stun via their cooldowns.
This is particularly useful vs Nurse (especially if running DH, as you can usually force a couple of sets of blinks [depending on pathing/environment] into a whiff, adding one regular fatigue and one extended fatigue to your chase time).
You probably know this stuff, but there are ways to eek out extra value (even if it is not huge in some cases) with your stun against these killers depending on your positioning/perks/etc, as demonstrated above.
I agree with you saying most perks are supposed to punish the opponent team, because they give you an advantage, which is exactly why people use perks. If they didn't give you an advantage, why use them at all?
I do disagree with DS going back to what it was. In solo Q it might have been fine, but it wasn't in a SWF.
My issue with the perk right now is that it still doesn't really prevent tunneling, which is exactly what it advertises.(edit on word).
A killer wont stop tunneling because of a 5 second stun, specially when it can only be used once, and you can be hooked twice. If the killer tunnels me through both hook stages. how is DS going to help me there? It isn't.
Absolutely. I was just trying to keep it simple for now :) in the right hands, DS is still fantastic
The fact that DS has been changed and that their are conditions that disable the perk shows that up until now its been pretty abusable. 4 borrowed times and 4 Ds's shouldn't allow me to not be able to play the game(2 layers of protection isn't healthy) but i guess that's just me not thinking about "fairness".
Because there's nothing to argue here lol
Tunneling has a countermeasure and you're still whining about it.
Sure, sometimes killers keep tunneling regardless of DS, but they are also sacrificing something for that.
Maybe other members could have escaped because you were being tunneled.
Dbd isn't made for you to "always win easily."
There is a large misconception about having the timer tick down on ds therefore you got no value from the perk. Just because you didn’t stun the killer doesn’t mean the perk didn’t/doesn’t have potential value.
something to the effect of “if I’m standing around injured, ds hasn’t done anything for me” has been said. The implication being that if only you could sit on a gen for 60 seconds, or rescue a survivor, you then had value.
the ds timer ticking while you stand around injured has provided the same protection, just not in the way you want it. You are still absolutely free to make progress on a gen or rescue a survivor. The difference being you now know there can be consequences of touching that gen or rushing that hook for points.
standing around watching that timer because you refuse to bring some form of healing is hurting your entire team. That’s 60 seconds of a gen that didn’t get done. Even worse is if you get slugged because you won’t heal, and force one of your teammates off of their gen to come pick you up.
There is always something to argue about when you're actually interested in having a discussion.
I never said it was maid for "always in easily". If I wanted that I'd play SWF.
It's like saying "but killers by facecamping are also sacrificing points", where is the part that people don't understand that people who facecamp and hard tunnel dont care about points, and are playing just to ruin someone else's experience? Not that difficult to understand.
That's why it shouldn't be balanced around a 4 man SWF. Now Solos and casual SWF now suffers even more than they already did, taking all the fun out of playing the game because a killer thought a 5 sec stun was unfair. Well, I think it was unfair to be facecamped by a Bubba and then kill everyone else with NOED. Like, why was this not removed too?
You are right, it was nerfed without any buffs and it is a very bad anti-tunneling perk. It needs a lot of buffing to be a decent perk and fun. It's a boring perk now.
So what you're saying is that new DS can promote useless team mates, yes, I agree with that. Like there aren't enough of those in solo Q already.
Are you oblivious to the irony in what you just said?
Because the devs and the community in general neglect solo Q.
Most comments I've been replying to on this thread is how "your team mates don't have to help you", like I'm not aware of that. Maybe if they did something to promote people playing more like a team, example of someone getting more BP and emblem points by staying on the hook while being facecamped, most issues would be solved.
Most killers on this forums talk like all they go against are sweaty 4men SWF squads when they're probably not and are just bad against solo teams too.
How is it ironic to state a fact that a lot of team mates in solo Q are useless?
Alright so lets be honest, it isn't just a "five second stun" its those 5 seconds plus whatever time it takes for the killer to down and hook you again that other survivors put more time into completing gens. Taking away power from swf is the best direction the game can take since nobody wants to be put in lose lose situations. The ds nerf promotes using more team oriented perks and not having all your perks be selfish ones.
No. Putting Solo Q on pair with SWF and balancing everything according to that is the best thing.
By nerfing SWF, you're making the already weak Solo Q even worse.
Closing at OP's request.
Also please may I remind you all, that whilst you might not agree with someone's opinion you are not free to attack them or anyone else.