Arguments against giving Killers the same hook UI as Survivor?
I made the suggestion here:
@madminer95 said:
Killers should have the same separated per Survivor hook UI widget as Survivors,
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" is completely illogical considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And for those who's definition of tunneling is off:
Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
The survivors hook widget lets them more easily prioritize who to give protection hits to, when to exit the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc etc.
In balance the same information should be given to the Killer so they can prioritize.
But I've yet to hear a good reason against providing Killers the same hook information as Survivors.
for the sake of preventing repeat responses please fully read the suggestion post and i'll put points and counterpoints I've seen so far below.
Killers would use the information to tunnel.
A Killer inclined to tunnel is already told the Survivor they are hooking is dead on they're next hook by them beginning to struggle and the "entity summoned" score event.
Even if it wouldn't encourage tunneling it would encourage better target prioritization.
Giving Survivors the hook state information allows them to effectively prioritize preventing the killer getting kills by body blocking and not wasting time hanging around for a save if the person being hooked is on death hook.
If memory of hook states is going to be lorded as part of a killer's general skill ceiling why shouldn't that also apply to survivors?
The hook counter was only made to bring solo Survivor communication more in line with SWF.
It's generally accepted that SWF communication imbalances the game. As quality of life adjustments are made to improve solo Survivor communication, logical corresponding counterbalances need to be made for killers to prevent killers experience being made miserable, further increasing Survivor queue times as less killers play.
X community collected statistics show killers get 4K's more often than not so should be nerfed
While i wouldn't trust stats from small sample sizes since even the Dev's stats often are meaningless like the ones that showed nurse was the worst killer in the game with pig being fourth best.
This is a horror franchise 1v4 game, The killers are supposed to feel powerful and even if they're power needs toning down over all this particular feature is not the place to be doing that.
Comments
Whatever man I really don't care that much either way to argue with you but please go off.
Everyone's memory works differently but I still think my point stands that Killers have more information to focus on than the Survivors and if both are trying to keep track of hooks mentally it's easier for the Survivors.
killers have to focus on:
Survivors have to focus on:
hard agree with you there.
Ah yes, Rule 1 of the Survivor rule book, "Killers aren't allowed to kill Survivors because its not fun for the Survivors"
Again, I see a hook counter making very little difference to player attitudes as far as tunnelling/camping even if they are new,
Chances are if they're new and haven't seen any gameplay before they will tunnel and camp, regardless of counter or not, simply because this game's tutorial is a joke and only barely touches on the very basic game mechanics and as a new player those may seem like the logical things to do, generally as people play more and or watch experienced gameplay they come to understand that tunnelling is generally a bad idea because you end up eating decisive strikes and there's no pressure on the other survivors.
Also I completely disagree with the sentiment that it wouldn't be helpful to higher skill/playtime players, quite often i'll see streamers like Otzdarva and TrU3Ta1ent that have thousands of hours and are relatively high skill going "this is they're last hook right? oh its not, damm thats bad for me, it was the other Claudette".
Of course new players may camp and tunnel until they realise once they rank up that they are getting less bloodpoints but should they be given the tools to make it easier? That is what the argument is.
Your last point is also one of the reasons why its not there. Yes even vets forget at times but the devs did state that they want this thought process to happen and not be given. Then we look at the hook counter which can of course be used in your example but when you flip and know even vets can forget you have then just gave them the info to go after the one on death hook instead. This itself then promotes it for those who would do it.
At the very least, I'd like there to be an indication as to whether or not a survivor has been hooked. Whether it's their 1st or 2nd doesn't matter. I just want to be able to proc my BBQ efficiently in a match full of P3 Claudettes.
THANK YOU! Finally a comment that actually explains it. Tired of people just assuming everyone is SWF and Solo Q getting slept on, when in IMO it can be the most frustrating experience in game.
It's an asymmetrical game. I like how killers use this argument when it suits their agenda, but the second it doesn't they ask to have access to any kind of info/mechanic survivors have and completely forget it's an asymmetrical game.
"It's an asymmetrical game" isn't an excuse for every imbalance.
Sounds like you're definition of tunneling is off.
Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
he's still targeting one person.
Back to one of my original points it wouldn't make it any easier to tunnel, they're already told the Survivor they are hooking is dead on they're next hook by them beginning to struggle and the "entity summoned" score event, if they're inclined to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the Survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And if memory of hook states is going to be lorded as part of a Killer's general skill ceiling and the devs want that "thought process to happen and not be given" the same should apply to Survivors.
Of course it would as you have the info on your screen. Anything which gives you info instead of having to remember inherently always makes it easier.
I think you miss the point with the second statement. This has never been about those who will go back to the hook as they are going out to tunell regardless..
Take this scenario - You see 2 survivors on a gen. 1 has been hooked once and 1 is on death hook. You don't remember who is who and they are different chars. Now with this info you can clearly see who is the one death hook so who do you think player would go for? Yes some may go after the one not on death hook but it's logical to get someone out of the game quicker for others to gain more of an advantage.
I already said I did not agree with them giving that info to survivors in this thread for similar reasons so that point is moot.
no one is saying that every Survivor is playing in a SWF.
but It's generally accepted that SWF levels of communication do imbalance the game.
As necessary quality of life adjustments are made to improve solo Survivor communication, logical corresponding counterbalances need to be made for killers to keep SWF's in check with the end goal being SWF's being a little less powerful and solo being at that same level.
For this particular feature what makes most sense is to give killers the same UI.
A killer with a good memory doesn't even need this, because they'll just remember it. Not giving all killers the hook counter gives an unfair advantage to killers with good memory and streamers who can ask chat.