Clown is still too weak, the rework clearly missed its mark
Nothing has changed about him, he still gets genrushed to hell by SWF squads while being ridiculed by survivors. The yellow bottles are of no use to him since they take too long to go off, instead they actually help survivors since you need to throw them so far ahead of you that they might as well use the speedbuff for themselves.
So in the end he still relies on purple gas bottles that can be reloaded slightly faster, that's it. He can't prevent people from dropping pallets (why can't his gas stop actions?) nor can he create map pressure. At this point you should sincerely consider turning him into the first 120% movespeed killer, there's nothing else that could salvage this killer.
Comments
I'm sure a certain Clown main will have something to say about this.
But nevertheless, I agree with you. This is the first failed rework Behavior has made in my opinion. (excluding Billy)
They took nothing from him in fact when you use both bottles well he is actually even more chase oppressive.
As for his sonic tonic if you are placing them right then they can't use them without getting hit have you used them yet? I have played him a lot and not once has a survivor used the speed boost from me throwing it ahead without getting hit.
edit: In fact i haven't had a single survivor benefit from the speed boost mostly because it disappears so fast that they don't make it back to it when they circle around something like a wall.
You have to be realistic here, your going to get gen rushed with any killer by a survivor with friends. The clown buff isn't that good so I agree he needs another "Slight" buff.
He is still pretty garbage, but I don't agree with making him a 120% killer.
There are better solutions.
Like getting new developers š
The Freddy rework was a failure in my book. Why? Because he completely lost everything that made him different. Most (if not all) old Freddy mains hate the new Freddy. Because it didnĀ“t address his core problems (it removed them, sure), but instead turned him into a completely different killer. The Clown rework has a similar problem. It didnĀ“t solve his issues (map pressure) and ignores what makes him unique and tries to build up on that.
Yeah I can understand if you think Freddy's rework was a failure. I don't, because looking at it from a technical standpoint he's a far better killer than before. But that came at the cost of his originality.
Sure, he is better. But many survivors would call him OP. While i see him as a completely different killer.
What made him fun (at least for me) is lost.
His uniqueness is why he was so weak until late game, The REAL problems those freddy players ignore was how his slowdown was not just too strong it was horrible to play against. He was not a fun killer to play as or against unless you could deal with getting looped until there were no pallets remaining.
As long as he was like that he was a failed design right from the start.
I don't think Clown's rework (if you can really call it that) is a failure. Clown likely only needs some minor number adjustments on his antidote and he'll be good.
Now what is more important. The fun factor of a killer for the killer or for the survivors that play against him?
considering that logic most players actually hated playing as or against Freddy back then so i'd say the rework did it's job well.
"They took nothing from him" Yeah if you ignore three very good/good addons that was removed/nerfed but ok.
I'm with you on that, I actually really hated playing against old Freddy.
Most survivors hate the new Freddy. So was that intended?
well not as many players hate him for one reason or the other as they did before.
You have no argument here friend old freddy was hated more for being weak and frustrating to play unless you went full slowdown and as a survivor he was literally just unfun no matter how the freddy played.
How come the majority of posts in here are about Freddy instead of Clown?
IĀ“m so sorry. I didnĀ“t want to change the whole subject.
You are right. The rework did nothing meaningful to him.
I feel like killer have new enemy, their power. Lately, every singe killer is fighting against their power rather than the survivors.
Billy has to fight his overheat mechanic
Blight has to fight against his sliding on objects and his POV, sometimes his lunge if the survivor is smart.
Twins have to fight their design with victor downing people from super far away.
Clown has to fight his activation delay on yellow bottles to be able to use his power effectively.
I wish killers were not fighting their power constantly and could play against their opponent... the survivors. It feels strange because ever since Billy rework, its been like this. Clown is such wasted potential, if they just got rid of that silly drawback, he would be decent enough at least to compare to old one.
I agree with ya
No this isn't what I would call a rework. Nothing about his power was reworked they just added another yellow bottle. Yet you got some clown mains saying how he takes at least one thousand IQ and opening your third eye to use him correctly. I just hope in the future if they decide to "rework" a killer not to be this lazy with it.
I disagree with that. He was failed design because survivors complained about wallhacks when he was in PTB. Original Freddy in PTB was a brilliant design. His archetype was that of anti-stealth stealth killer with the ability to mindgame loops using information. It took 3 seconds for a survivor to transition in dream and his wall-hacks worked in TR allowing him to do the most advanced mindgames that no other killer could ever do.
When he came out of PTB, they limited his aura-reading only outside of the TR & increased transition time 3->5 seconds and he was left like that for 1 year until they finally decided to rework him. His new design changed his archetype from anti-stealth stealth killer to a chase killer with hindered effect & generator slowdown(borrowed from parts old Freddy design). The issue is that clown already embodied this design and the game really did not need another killer with exact same idea. Its hilarious but Freddy snares are still stronger slowdown at 3s/15% than clown(15%/2s) to this day.
The funny thing about Freddy is that survivors complained that Old freddy was unfun to vs when he was weak(aura-reading was most complained feature of old freddy by newbie rank 20 survivors) and to this day, survivors STILL complain that he's unfun to vs. when he is strong numerically.
The fact is he was so weak they needed to literally slow survivors repair speed so he could stand a chance
he was literally a m1 killer that NEEDED his power to even hit survivors
that is why he was a failed design he was literally so weak they needed to slow the game.
like you can try to argue that he used the dream transition to mindgame survivors but if you had a head set you could hear his location and it was more of a 50/50 if hit a survivor less then that if they had good hearing.
Many killers rely on their powers to get hit, Does nurse requiring to blink to hit survivors all of sudden mean this is a bad killer? what about Spirit,Huntress, Hag? Are they bad too because they rely their powers? I'd argue that almost all killers need their power to be effective against good survivors, The only reason why many killers get away with not using their power is because average-level for survivors is notoriously bad at looping that 15% bonus movement speed+Bloodlust that killers have at base is good enough to win against low-level looping/low-level generator optimization.
As I said, he was failed design because BVHR weakened the design straight after PTB(Removed Aura-reading when in TR +Increased transition time), not because his kit was inherently bad. post PTB, he relied on aura-reading and low TR from Monitor&Abuse to be successful with add-on's that reduce chance to get a skill-check(so people do not instantly fail skill-checks to get out of dream world).
Here's very old video of Otz playing old freddy. I still remember playing it. In general, I think the reason why Freddy was conceived as bad is because stealth killers are underwhelming in DBD and Freddy was a stealth killer. I mean people still say to this day that Wraith is bad, Ghostface is bad, Pig is bad and I do agree that stealth killers are a lot of effort for little reward. As Otz says old freddy had major strengths and major weaknesses. as with any killer, you play towards your strengths and minimize weaknesses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OgCvfzNyHc
those powers are not needed to hit survivors and often are strong like huntress throwing hatchets, literally ignoring objects and distance, extra point is they HELP you get hits.
Freddy's power didn't HELP you get hits they ALLOWED you to get hits and if you got a hit right from dream transition or not was pretty iffy i don't care how good you were you cannot tell me that the dream transition was better at getting hits then literally any stealth killer even wraith.
there is no argument here he was a failed design that only won matches from either bad plays or heavily stalling, the fact that he pretty much didn't have a power just info and stalling is why is a such a bad design you HAD to play heavy stalling to win against even decent survivors, also remember this was still back when pallet vacuums were a thing.
How someone used him doesn't matter because the ONLY reason he was even decent was his stalling which was basically put in place as the main power which made it unfun for both sides because as survivor matches took too long and as freddy you had to literally make the whole map a dead zone.
Disagree with that. Old freddy was about the fact he had 24 base TR with 115% that was further reduced to 16 with M&A with wallhacks. His slowdown was just incentive for survivors to wake up. It had little impact as whole because survivors priotized failing skill-checks to get out of dream world unlike today.
Even if you think that he was about stalling/slowdown, It is not any different by today's standards. New freddy is all about slowdown. His most common perk is Pop goes weasel and he uses this perk to great effect thanks to his generator teleportation. His second most common perk is Sloppy butcher which is often paired with his Jump rope add-on(Green add-on that reduces your healing speed & gen speed) and Swinging chains(A purple add-on that reduces healing speed & gen speed for every survivor in the dream world). Together, these two add-on with sloppy butcher create an impressive anti-heal build that stalls the game through slow heals. The lesser power is snare/pallets which gives you the choice of a bad doctor or bad clown variant for a chase. admittedly, the snares do help Freddy here and there... but majority of his strength is his synergy with generator defense perks(Pop and Sloppy). Take away those assets and he's worse than old freddy.
wall hacks are useless if you can't down the survivor end of story
Could you please take your Freddy debate to another thread? This one is only dedicated to the Clown, and yet you keep bringing up that dream demon. I'm interested in seeing changes for the Clown, one of the worst killers in the game. Freddy meanwhile is doing fine enough as he is.