Otz's community balance patch
Now I love Otz don't get me wrong on that aspect but I feel like the balance patch misses the mark on three aspects.
DS
Decisive strike being deactivated when on a generator or in a locker does it really defeat the main annoyance of decisive.
In fact at least in my opinion the locker tech on decisive strike was always the least irritating.
The 3 most annoying aspects that decisive strike brought were.
1) survivors being able to do objective totems and healing whilst still being under the protection ( generators is one of the suggested aspects to deactivate decisive but totems and healing still remain) if you're safe enough to heal somebody or do a totem you're not really being tunneled
2) The fact that you could still Hook other survivors but still get hit with decisive strike. It's really annoying that you could potentially be punished for downing people to efficiently
3) small pp build this point has been beaten to death I just need to mention it the thing not really explaining.
Noed
As for Noed I think it's kind of stupid to lock something that's already conditional behind more conditions.
Noed already relies on endgame and an available dull totem otem making it also rely on tokens is kind of stupid.
If you're going to make it rely on two conditions then you are definitely going to have the buff the perk up a lot more than it already is.
Balancing a condition on a condition on a restriction is one of the main reasons why furtive chase is such a bad perk.
I really don't think doing a hex version of that is a smart idea.
Undying
This is typically a gamble hex perk it can either work as insurance for your other hexes or it could be destroyed first and be useless. I think the idea of the transferred hex being removed once Undying is destroyed is bad
Honestly the only thing I really think needs to be changed about this perk is the Aura Reading to be transfer to something like thrill of the hunt instead.
Turn thrill of the hunt into the ultimate total defender you see people's Aura and they cleanse it slower.
Let Undying remain as an insurance perk. Both Undying and thrill of the hunt will protect totems.
Thrill of the hunt could be used if you want to actively defend your totem whilst Undying is a gamble but it will give you a passive protection that you don't really have to influence
Comments
Uh no, the community has evidence of other developers like McLean saying it was meant to be anti tunnel. The old DS was anti momentum, if the new DS was really anti momentum, it wouldn't activate if you were unhooked recently.
Just ask someone like Scott Jund, he has evidence of devs saying it was meant for anti tunnel.
What stops a wraith from hiding, watching, and waiting for you to touch a gen and then tunnel? You want survivor to not touch a gen for 60 seconds? I am not allowed to work on the objective but you can? Sounds like a horrible balance idea. Survivors aren't supposed to be totally defenseless.
The ability to look and listen for the wraith stops him.
@Volfawott
They didn't say you could only use it as an anti tunnel perk. In fact, it's not. You can take the stun and still tunnel the same survivor out.
It was stated by one of them that the community is the one who keeps saying it is strictly an anti tunnel perk, not them.
You know I find it hilariously ironic that you accuse me of coming up with situations to justify complaining yet right now you're coming up with situations to justify you're flawed logic.
Someone can't to make a point about how abusable decisive strike is without you jumping down their throat and saying that they're making up situations to justify complaining.
However you're perfectly fine to complain about things like the ruin and Undying combo or you're perfectly fine to make up situations to justify your own logic when it comes to someone's argument.
Honestly I originally put this post up to actually have some discussions and talk about what people thought about these suggested changes however if you're going to be so hypocritically biased and narrow-minded I'm not wasting my time I'm engaging with you further.
Comparing tinkerer and DS is laughable. We all know DS is miles above tinkerer in terms of power. If devs announced tomorrow that devs will nerf both DS and tinkerer survivors would throw fit.
If that happens with DS then you are guaranteed to lose a kill if they're unhooked endgame with DS. You can't leave them for 30 seconds, you can't slug it out, you just lose. That's not fair nor balanced.
And rightfully so, DS has already been nerfed so many times it has lost the meaning of decisive strike. Further nerfs to one side to increase the killrates even higher is what is laughable. Tinkerer directly punishes the survivor for doing the objective and rewards killer with undetectable status for doing nothing. Certainly sounds so much stronger than DS to me.
Right.. then we should advocate that both the perks get nerfed. Sounds fair right. But honestly DS needs small tweaks that it disabled once you go touch a generator. You obviously aren't being tunneled
Giving it tweaks to make it convenient for one side is wrong. Giving it tweaks so the killer can abuse them is wrong. It's not strictly an anti-tunnel perk. You have something in your hand, it shouldn't disappear for arbitrary reasons to make it convenient for the killer.
Tinkerer should have never been buffed though, it is now unfair.
Hex Undying needs to be left out of that write up. I 100% disagree with him on wanting to nerf it. Same with NOED. This might be because I've played this game for 4 years, but I feel it's in a perfect spot right now. Survivors are starting to do totems more often now and those that don't usually book it out the match because they may expect it coming. Either way, it's something survivors (I assume anyway) have learned to properly combat.
DS is getting nerfed whatever you like it or not, too many people are advocating for it. There are multiple devs saying when they released it that it should be anti tunneling perk. Scott jund proves that in his videos as well. So you cannot now flip flop that it was never anti tunneling perk.. old new was also anti momentum perk 😂😂
Games can die when they listen to their community. The community doesn't always know best.
Lets assume the devs listens to all the entitled killers and once again nerfs DS for its very so slight anti-momentum effects of a killer trying to killrush, then they need to explain to everyone why killers have a zillion anti-momentum, anti-objective perks, and nerfing an anti-momentum survivor perk when killrates are so astonishingly high.
Anti momentum perks are fine, for both. But they NEED some effort to make them work. DS reguires literally nothing other than get hooked (failing) here get this free 60 second immunity. It's badly designed perk, just like NOED currently is. People advocating that DS is balanced are obviously biased. Most killer stalling perks require you to do something, because passively they do nothing. The perk you disliked so much tinkerer does nothing if killer doesn't act on it, there are multiple limitations unlike DS has. So i hope they rework perks like Noed, DS, OoO in the future
what no only tinker, ruin, pop, C intervention, undying are unfair, ds is fair and counter tunneling, of course it may be a bit too stong but saying that it should be completly nerf is stupid
DS does need a change.
It isn't an anti-tunnel perk. Not at all. It's a perk where you deny anything and can do whatever the hell you want for 60 seconds. Killer comes near while you're fully healed, and you jumped in a locker at last second, boom. You just got outplayed.
It isn't anti tunnel. There is one way to make it less anti-tunnel. I agree with the DS change.
Kek
You my friend are trying to convince a brick wall they're not going to change their bias stance
I disagree with the DS timer stopping during chase/slug. If you decide to heal 50 ft from a hook and I see you with Nurses, or you just straight up decide to heal in my face, I shouldn't be punished for downing you. I shouldn't, as a Killer, be forced to just let you walk away because DS will stay up otherwise.
If you unhook and have any doubts about whether the Killer is going to come back to investigate, you should be getting to a safe location to heal. And I can imagine, if the timer did freeze, getting into stupid scenarios like going on long chases with DS on 29/30 seconds and still getting DS'd because it didn't hit the full duration.
I think any kind of freezing is a bad idea.
I think Otz and his community proposed changes would make the game better with little changes.
DS + Locker is down right dumb and infuriating. The real problem with DS is the counterplay, if we can even call it that, the slugging. I don't want to lie on the ground for two minutes because the killer is afriad that I run DS. When I play killer I don't want to leave people on the ground and have to run a timer for every survivor to know when thier DS ends. This is a Lose / Lose Situation.
The buffs to Clown and Mikey's early game are no brainers.
As are the changes to the key skins and survivor skins. The Broken key should be broken. No Clones.
Ruin + Undying gives too much slowdown, to the point the better SWF now bring maps and Detectiv's Hunch to counter it.
OoO is totally broken on SWF with coms, you basicly have no choice but to tunnel the OoO user out of the game or have everything you do being called out thanks to wallhacks. If the OoO user is competent... good luck with that.
Iridescent head is broken. There are people that normally don't play Huntress but sink all their BP into her to have an easy time ranking up. So they only play her with Iridescent head. It's foolproof.
Spirit needs better counterplay. Heck, she needs ANY counterplay.
There are many more propsed changes, you can check out the vid on his youtube, if you are interrested.
That really didn't addressed what I said in the post.
Ds suggested change doesn't think the main problem with it well yes the locker tech is annoying it is nowhere near the main problem with ds.
I didn't mention having a problem with the clown or Myers change so I don't know why it's relevant
My problem with his suggested change for Undying was that it would ruin the point of it being a gamble insurance perk. The only thing you really need to do with Undying is remove the Aura reading and give it to Thrill of the hunt instead.
This make Undying a passive totem protection however it's a gamble because Undying might be cleansed first.
This also turns thrill of the hunt into something that she will use for active totem protection the slowdown and aura reading will allow you to do the job of defending the Perk but you're the one that has to put in the work for it.
That changed Undying will make sure it doesn't do too much and will also help you with the counter of cleansing dull totems without having your aura seen.
I mention nothing to do with keys or or object of obsession so I don't know why it's relevant for you to bring it up
In fact to save me the time of constantly typing out I never mentioned it so I don't know why you're bringing it up up I'll leave it with this I only had a problem with the way he handled decisive strike, Noed and Undying outside of that I think the changes are perfectly fine.
I watch Otz regularly
The fact that anyone engaged in a conversation with someone who thinks DS and Tinkerer are equivalent perks is laughable. DS is worth a health state, value that tinkerer doesn't come even close to giving.