if you want a good example of how badly SWF breaks the game. play Among us as a solo player.
before this gets reported for being off topic or whatever i want to say this IS about dead by daylight and how impactful the SWF voice comms is so please read it before you assume make an assumption, but recently i'v been feeling a little burned out so went to play something else for a short bit but wanted that more casual DbD feeling so i came across Among us.
before i carry on this WILL be long and no TL:DR will be included, sorry for the inconvenience.
anyways i'v been playing it for a good 2 or so weeks now and something i'v noticed has a strong presence in Among us is friends on voice comms.
what do i mean?
well when you are the "Imposter" role you are essentially the "killer" role in DBD though your main tool of murder is stealth, and your goal just like DbD is to kill everyone or at least as many people as you can before they figure out its you and "eject you" which basically kills you.
if you manage to get the Imposter role which is randomly assigned in a 10man lobby when the game starts so nobody should know who is it besides the person who gains the role you will on some occasions come across a lobby where you feel that the crew are "psychic" in that when you start killing people they know who it is and get rid of you almost immediately, i chocked this up to being sloppy and noticeable but its becoming more obvious over time what the issue is.
they are Surviving With Friends.
by this i mean if their little friend circle on discord is not the imposter they will do their "tasks" (the win objective as the crew members) and if one of their friends is killed they will announce over their voice comms (usually discord) that X killed friend or if they witness someone else get killed they will tell each other X killed that guy and with the stacked odds of 3,4,5 or even 6 people voting against you odds are the moment they announce this you lose because they will all eject you and end the game there.
as the Impostor your job just became impossible as the power role.
sound familiar?
this same issue plagues DbD, survive with friend gives you power far above the games intended design which not only makes it so they gain clairvoyant abilities of knowing who, what, where and when just because of their voice comms but they actively destroy the "enemies" ability to even function because stealth just got taken from you due to the hivemind feeling sensation that is voice comms and just going on a rampage means they will get you killed/ejected immediately but they can also abuse this by staying together non-stop because they KNOW who is NOT the killer making it so the Imposter cannot do their job.
in DbD terms this is essentially SWF taking the power role from the killer by having a hive minded enemy constantly knowing your whereabouts, your perks as soon as 1 sees an perk they ALL know about it, each others constant location and ultimately which objectives to cooperate on which they know is safest.
This. Breaks. The. Game.
unlike Among us though DbD CAN be solved and balanced of its issue!
because teams are NOT randomly assigned a killer/Impostor, players know what role they will be given when they start the search and because of this the game CAN be adjusted to accommodate and rebalanced around this issue.
im talking making voice comms baseline, buffing solo survivors by baselining perks like bond, kindred and sole survivor, mainly detection perks SWF will never bother with, limiting how many defensive "second chance" perks a team can have so more players in your SWF group the less you can bring and solo players being unaffected by this rule (its bad enough playing solo atm they need the help) and with all this in mind we can FINALLY start making the killer role scary again.
The killer role would have the ability to be Re-balanced if those above changes are made since we can adapt perks and powers with these baseline stats and features in mind, im talking baselining perks like monstrous shrine (this thing is awful in general and should be baseline since basement = killer zone and should be baseline), surge, territorial and that one perk that hides your red stain when you bloodlust (its that useless as a perk i cant even remember its name) then then some offering style items need to be baseline like Cypress mori (its the least used offering in the game and is useless compared to its green or purple brothers) and faint/clear reagent (this one is meh but would be selected depending on killer, so faint for trapper or clear for huntress as examples)
then once that has been done killers can gain a new "against the odds" style buff where the more SWF members are against them then some perks become temporarily baseline for each member of the SWF group up to 4 (so 8 total perks) which adapt to whichever killer you pick.
so example (a bad one i dont play wraith) would be if i were to pick wraith and the enemy has a 4man SWF, then i would get 4 perks baseline: NOED, infectious fright, agitation and blood warden because these would help my wraith play smooth out against the coordination of the SWF while allowing me to slot more optional perks to deal with the harder difficulty, again these would adapt depending on the killer, with this im hoping it will smooth out the lingering issues of some killers being useless against a SWF group and encourage more people to try and beat them rather than avoid them.
for the solo survivor though this is where temporary perks come in.
as a solo survivor you are already against the odds because nobody is partnered with you, they are likely to traitor you and worst case scenario they will farm you on the hook.
with these baseline perks for being solo im hoping it will make playing solo more barely even though it wont guarantee you more escapes, at least you wont feel powerless and with the adaptive killer temperary perks it means you being solo will mean a weaker killer due to less perks, the perks i recommend for solo surviving as previously mentioned that are adapted to solo survivor is sole survivor, kindred, bond and mettle of man.
why mettle of man? this would encourage solo survivors to take more protection hits which is something i see very few survivors do when i notice they are solo from both killer and solo survivor point of view.
finally to finish off give solo survivors and "Against the odds" killers a 25% bonus blood point gain PER Survive with Friend in the match.
so if a killer and 1 solo survivor join a lobby and there is a 3 man SWF group, both killer and solo survivor will gain 75% more blood points, this will encourage more... well going against the odds unlike with currently people will actively dodge SWF groups of any size because of the sheer advantages they bring mainly being that they already have cooperation and plans in mind for eachother where as the solo survivor will likely be the victim of their gameplay and the killer will be going against a more hiveminded enemy.
sorry for the long post but sitting playing Among us made me realize how bad of a state DbD match making really is when i could see the same power role issues in another game make the killer/impostor role completely powerless.
Comments
Wow, you just got burned by 3 replies. Rest in peace, dude.
And this is exactly the build I run when I play in a four man swf group. and the thing is me and my squad are the definition of casuals we will play dead by daylight maybe for three rounds out of a three week. We consistently get 3 to 4 escape because granted we might be old gamers but we understood very early on that this game is essentially playing tag and hide-and-seek.
And sense most of us stop playing those games 25 to 30 years ago we have the real world experience regarding the essentials on how to get things done. But when you throw in an OoO empathy kindred SWF... It's a wrap for the killer you don't even need meta perks because literally everyone has eye in the sky.
I guess it is what it is. Dbd has been around for 3 to 4 years now and while it is still a great game and highly enjoyable I think it's clear at this point the devs have no intent on addressing this because maybe for them that's not a big issue. And to be fair I can see both sides of the argument.
Comms in a game desigbed without them will give unfair advantages.
Its downright saddening to see so many not even get that point and just "hurr durr different genre"
An insanely long post comparing two different games making absolutely no sense and monkeys being like :-----------------o wooooow you're right this FINALLY PROVES that swf bad
you clearly didnt read the post :)
this summarizes half the comments sadly :/
That's the point, I actually did
The thing is half of the comments focused on the point of dbd and among us being different type of game which is obvious to everybody and not the underlying point.
The point is to make an easy to understand comparison how coms give opportunities for unfair advantage. Of course they make one game just more unbalanced and completely ruin the other, but this disparity in impact is not the point.
You could use rainbow six siege, rocket league, cs go or league of legends or any other team vs team PvP game as an example that, if one side uses coms and the other does not have the possibility and no type of in-game substitute, they create a POTENTIAL heavy unfair advantage.
And yes we all know that a hefty percentage of all swf just talk about their day, it's the same with my people in lol but it still opens the potential for extrem efficient coordination.
It's a thing they usually do, they pretend to miss the point and act in bad faith.
As a person that play both games, they make good points. If you're not going to even bother to read the post so you'll see where they are coming from then why even bother? Your input hasn't any meaning here.
Yesterday played a solo game where some guy tried to say I was a friend with someone in game because we found out it was him. Lol funny thing is I called him out for being sus earlier so I asked black to accompany me because I seen him do a task and knew we safe. We voted him out after he killed someone and he was like you guys are friends you're on comms but reality was I don't have a mic and I joined a lobby randomly.
Uhhh please explain how he is wrong? I would genuinely love to hear what's going on inside that thing you call a head?
Among us is similar to another game known as town of Salem, a text based version of basically among us. Throwing the game by using voice comms to basically tell your living friends who the killer is so they can tell the rest of the group basically ruins the game and its not worth playing anymore.
And guess what. People will hate you for it and kick you from the game.
In dbd, yes voice comms are powerful and yes they do make certain things the killer can do far less effective (like fake pressure/chasing) but they don't equal a instant win like revealing the imposter in among us. Play a few games with friends on voice comms in among us. You'll see the difference. Among us forces you to not play like a dick because it ruins the game for everyone including yourself and makes people hate you and just refuse to play and kick you.
I get where you are trying to go here, but in my opinion the games are just way too different. Among Us litterally tells you to "SHHHH" Dead by Daylight is a 1v4. That makes the survivors a team and there is nothing wrong with a team working together.
From experience of playing both games with and without friends there is some truth to this. However Among Us and Dead By Daylight are a bit different in the ways comms change gameplay.
In Among Us most of the time people play with mic muted until a meeting is called and those dead cannot speak as that ruins the game. Not everyone follows those rules and at that point it makes it to where comms make it impossible for the imposter to win (or in another case, for them to lose). Friends telling each other who imposter is basically ends the game.
In dbd friends on comms don't end the game. Personally I can't trust people at rank 1 as a survivor because I'm constantly abandoned and left on hook to die. I don't play toxic, I don't body block and do nothing but flashlight saves. I play normally with or without friends. Do I have more general information when I'm playing on comms? Yes. But I still get my ass handed to me almost every single match because we're normal players. We don't run sweaty builds, we run what we like and what's fun and fit for us. Also people seem to forget killers aren't supposed to get 4ks every single match, devs have said themselves you should get a 2k average. I added this because I almost never escape games, my friends and I get lucky if one of us gets out through hatch. Last thing I wish to note is as killer you rely on yourselves. As a survivor we have to rely on our team, it's impossible to win by yourself without going through hatch which is a 50/50 chance.
In summary not every swf are toxic tryhards, and sometimes really good survivors are genuinely in solo queue. And before you come at me saying "entitled survivor main", I play both, I've received toxicity from both sides. It's easier to counter as killer than a solo survivor or even a casual swf.
Do you understand how dumb this argument is? First of sure swf is harder to face but not impossible just get better and how do you expect the game to be playable with 8 perks it wouldn't work that's broken so that's why it isn't in the game so stop complaining I swear you only think killer sided and it shows.
See if all you do is put people down to try to get your point across, no one is going to listen to you. So good luck with that.
Solo survivors do not need buffed. DC penalties need to return. Matchmaking needs to be improved. But solo survivors are fine. And I wouldn't nerf SWF either. You're making suggestions that have the likelihood to kill this game. If you have a bad round, queue up for another or take a break, they're not all going to be bad rounds.
AMong Us literally tells you to do this (not talk during play unless it's a meeting and not if you're dead). People talking out of a meeting or when they are dead are defeating the mechanics of the game in the stupidest way. How is that even fun?
I'm on PS4 so I can't contribute to the Among Us comparison, but I do agree that comms in DBD is way too OP. I think offering a buff in baseline perks and bloodpoints is a reasonable suggestion.
But to be honest, I would be thrilled if SWF no longer had the ability to still communicate to their teammates after they died. Being able to view other players' camera feeds, and feed back that information to the the rest of their party should not be allowed.
There are many things that should be changed when it comes to SWF, but ceasing communication after death is the one thing that should go. I realize that doesn't stop people from using other apps, but it shouldn't be allowed in the game.
Dude. Perspective. When you refuse to actually read the argument that someone lays out in depth yet still feel entitled to voice your own opinion, then no one ever should listen to anything you've got to say. Insulting you is the least of all barriers when you're engaging in bad faith already and only responded from a position of ego to dictate truth, as you see it. The point would never get across, and there's no use pretending otherwise.
Its the internet you are supposed to believe everything on it. Im sorry for being stupid 🙄🙄🙄