So I played killer for a full day instead of Survivor ... my eyes are open wide now.
Last week I decided to spend a day playing killer instead of survivor - this is how it went. (BTW I always loved the killer players for what they do... I love them even more now .. thanks for player killer, killers! - well most of you :-) )
Number one thing I learned was that at least 75% of survivors are jerks. Yup. Yup, they are. (And I thought I was annoyed with survivor behavior as a survivor!)
I'll start by saying that I wanted to player killer the way I wished most killers would. No tunneling or camping. Let players get people off hooks, don't attack while healing - though after you are fair game lol etc etc
Some of that idealism didn't even last a full game.
The first 5 games at least 2 out of every 4 survivors tea bagged me. How did that end? Well the offenders were hook camped until they died - that's how it ended. In fact one game I left them all dying on the ground for trying to save the really offending teabagger. I cared not. The teabaggers were obnoxious, there was absolutely nothing to warrant that behavior. Hook camping has a place - dealing with obnoxious tea-bagging players. So justified. (and VERY satisfying.)
Now how does this translate to me when I play survivor? Be warned fellow survivors, I might just leave you on the hook to die if I see a killer going for you alone as now I understand fully why they might be.
Out of the first 5 games, at least 2 games I had survivors DC's. What's amusing about that is I suck as killer and they probably would have escaped.
Once guy DC'd because I kept hitting him down. In my deference, his teammates kept getting out of the way and pushing him in the way when I would hit ...so he ended up hit instead. I never re-hooked him and never went after him as I wanted to play as fair as I could and give everyone a chance to have fun. I've been in his shoes more than once where a killer would just hook and hook me right at the start and I never had a chance to really play. So I did my best not to do that to someone else. I was so disappointed he DC'd. More for him than me.
The entire day was like this. No joke. Although the teabagging finally got reduced to 2 out of every five games.
So killers. Thanks again for playing that role. I've now seen though your eyes and I have even more respect for you than I did before. Thanks for putting up with all the jerks and continuing to play and not ragging leaving the game. I love you dearly.
Survivors, the ones with the bad behavior are who I'm talking about: From one survivor to another - stop being such jerks. Seriously.
Comments
oh no
brown rank survivors are so nasty :^)
Nah it’s fine, I could have been more clear with my wording so I can see why you read it as a complaint about slugging. I slug pretty much every killer game I play so I have no problem with it as a gameplay mechanic, lol. If people don’t want to be slugged, there are many ways to avoid or counter it.
Well I'm a Rank 4 Killer now (slide back to 5 and 6 often and then fight my way back down) and I would LOVE to report that potent Ranked Survivors have fewer creeps, but sadly that isn't the case. What does happen is you get a LOT more proactive, good sport Survivors who talk and give you a GG to make the jerks less irksome.
So it works like this.... I get the same 40-50% behaving badly, but the percentage of really good post game chatter goes up from 10-20% to about 40-50%. You get more good, proactive folks, but no fewer human garbage. :) Sadly, I see about the same number of hacks and lag spikes. That seems a constant at all levels.
It is not toxic survivors, it is toxic players. If you have a "toxic" play style you will probably bring that attitude to whatever role you choose to play that day.
I would agree with this in general, as I think someone who behaves like hot garbage in one role, would certainly not become a saint in the other. However, judging by my own experience, most people must not play both in equal measure as I simply don't see the kind of horrors from Killers that I do from Survivors. I play both roles equal, and I accept that how I'm treated as a Killer will be VERY different.
Do you play on PC? Do you think it is more of a platform thing? I just don't see it as often, but I do try to play as fair as possible. Not that the tactics used should matter in how someone responds to defeat.
My question about rank was really referring to OP. I was curious if he was indeed a rank 20 and as such are these baby survivors really running around tbagging?
Yes the messages that I have received that are over the line have come from survivors. I have never received hate mail from a killer. Ofcourse my survivor is not as skilled as my killer, so I probably rarely would be considered "toxic" as a survivor.
But, in a 4v1 , mathematically it makes sense that a higher number of hate would come from the larger group. If killers where sending a higher percentage of hate messages, while only being 20% of the player base represented in each game. That would indicate a significant problem.
I do play on the PC. And I love the Cross Play because Console players are silent, so I don't hear them say ANYTHING. :) So I would expect since Console Players seem to have fewer options to be bad sports, that perhaps that is why Console players often don't understand how much PC Players encounter.
Nice bait?
I got to rank 1 killer in less than a week one-tricking Spirit. While I have 800 hours as solo survivor. No matter that Spirit is an easy-mode killer (so is Tunnelhead, Slinger, Freddy, and literally any other killer that decides to camp and tunnel).
I faced t-bagging and flashlight clicking but how is that such a problem? You're really that offended? Never once did I feel "justified" to camp or tunnel a "toxic" survivor and everything still worked out perfect. I never once felt stressed playing killer unlike every game of solo survivor. I still go back to playing killer for more BP because killer's have that advantage (and many more) - and am still in red ranks.
Literally the only things killer face that can be considered "toxic" is t-bagging and flashlight clicking. Yet here I am dealing with face-camping, hard tunneling, mori-ing off of first hook every game. Should I also express Tunnelheads purposely dropping me onto a trench so they could mini-mori me? How about the times I had Ghostface's t-bag me the entirety of bleeding state? The Doctor's forcing a 3-gen and refusing to kill anyone or let survivor's do gens? The tunneling iri-heads? The killer slugging for a 4k making the game go on forever because if a survivor got the hatch their ego would be hurt? The AFK wraiths? The many times I de-rank because a killer decided to camp and tunnel me out of the game within the first 5 minutes while they receive no punishment at all? I could write a 10-page report of how killers are toxic and deal with nothing in comparison to a solo survivor.
do bones
That has kind of been my suspicion as to why we don't see it so much.
Baby Killer: "This will be fun! I hope I can give a survivor hatch!"
Baby Killer After First Game: "... they danced around me with flashlights, teabagged me a dozen times... and told me I should kill myself after game."
Baby Killer After Playing Enough Games to Get A Level 50 Killer: "I measure how good my day is going by how many Ebony Moris I have..."
For those that think this is bait: I doubt it.
When you're playing survivor (and even more so in a swf) you don't see things the same way. Most of the time you physically don't see what's going on - if someone is running from the killer across the map, you're just focused on the gen. People generally stick up for their team and dismiss the opposing team - so you excuse teabagging or clicking or whatever because they're on your side. I've seen it happen all the time, my SWF will have the gens powered but 1 person on a hook and immediately complain that the killer is camping. Every time I say "he's got no choice, what else can he do?" they don't respond.
It's exacerbated more when you only play 1 side. It's baffling to me that people ONLY play 50% of the game that's available to them. You get a really skewed view of the game and it's impossible to suggest any balance changes from that angle.
That's likely selection bias. The ratio of 4:1 just skews perception and that's the reason why anecdotal evidence is unreliable.
Imagine a scenario were 25% of survivors and 25% of killers are 'toxic'.
On average, when playing killer, you would run into that bad apple every game, just because there are 4 survivors in a match and statistically on average one of them would be that one toxic guy.
When playing survivor, though, you would run into that toxic killer only 1 every 4 trials on average, because there's only 1 killer per match.
However, both populations would have exactly the same fraction of bad apples. If you sampled the exact same numbers of trials as killer and as survivor, you would be incorrectly lead to believe one population is worse than the other, if you just skimmed over the fact that you actually draw from one population 4 times more than the other for every single match. You can't asses based on trials, you have to assess for every single player.
Now, imagine a similar scenario where survivor toxicity is the same as above, but 50% of killers are toxic. As killer, you would still get a toxic survivor every match on average. As survivor, though, you would still only run into a toxic killer every other match DESPITE the fact that that population has a higher fraction of bad apples. If you still assessed based on trials, you would wildly underestimate one population composition and overestimate the other.
Complaining about tea bagging survivors is not adding anything of value to the discussion either. Quite frankly it should not have been said at all as it is not relevant to the actual balance issues of the game itself.
it’s such a childish thing to complain about. Must be 5 years old. Killers are the overpowered ones in this game by far. You’re just bad at being one.
Painfully true,
when I was a baby killer. my goal was to hook everyone twice then let them escape. Until I face a swf team with 3 Headon with tbag and ggez in the end.
U're the childish here for not able to read. Op complain about so many survivors being a jerk to Killer. Not about 4k.
Im a killer main who has recently become a survivor main, it really opens your eyes. Ive had killers thank me for knowing how they play and providing a new, unique challenge.
Same experience on my part.
It's not DbD though, it's like this in every game. Some players never, and will never understand why they win a game, or what is actually happening inside the game. In this case, why did they escape? Did they really play well? etc.
They are being toxic because they feel like they did something well, they feel superior to you, in their mind it's simple 1+1. I escaped, so I must be better. As an example: How much of that escaping was due to being in a swf, making it super unfair, will never come to their minds. More importantly being better than a different person is also not a thing which happens often in their lifes, so they have to get everything they can out of it.
I'm a killer main, and I will stay a killer main because it's much more fun than playing survivor to me. In the beginning, in my mind and my attitude I was friendly. I tried to win, but I didn't care to tunnel or even allowed some players to escape because I made enough points as is.
Over time I literally started to hate survivors. I'm level 24 and rank6, I'm absolutely new to the game but I'm keeping myself informed on how to play through YouTube. It took me 24 levels to go from happy thoughts, to not so happy thoughts where I simply wanted to make the match hell for any survivor I meet.
Yes, I'm guilty to hook and camp survivors like that, stalking them to 99% to SSJ3 Meyers, just to make sure if his swf friends come I will 1shot anyone who tries to take him away from me. Again, in his mind he won. In my world though, which he doesn't get, my goal changed from winning the game, to ruining his game. I don't care if his friends escape or if I depip, I will go up with stronger perks anyway. Atleast he doesn't get anything out of the game.
I'm working on No Gen Freddy as we speak, already got Ruin, and will get Undying soon. Also looking into if playing Spirit will make them hate their lifes more. If you play a killer who is amazing at chasing, they can't really be toxic can they? The toxicity comes in because they know every pallet, have every perk in the game. If the killer is insane at chasing them down, I think tables will switch. So I'm thinking about learning Nurse/Spirit just to destroy entire swf groups once I get the hang of it.
2 out of 5 games is an understatement. You get cocky players, specially in red rank in 50% of your games. I didn't get any slow down perks, I didn't know I had to. No YT-Video told me the game is based on both sides rushing everything. Some games I played really well, but simply didn't have enough time to get them. Even though they escaped, I was the better player on the field without any teachable perks against survivors who have everything. They all play the same perks anyway, it's always the same thing. Having players who are playing worse than you tbag you, just because you don't have every perk doesn't sit well tbh.
Also curious, what do killers do who aren't buying the DLCs? I feel, as a killer, you simply need something like Pop or Ruin atleast in 1 slot. I guess that's is the whole point though, motivating customers to buy stuff. ^^
But I can fully understand if someone don't like the Survivor or Killer role.
When i was new (not long ago) Teabagging or Flashlight clicking was annoying but ok. Now it's normal for me, if it's not too excessive. I'm doing this myself as Survivor rarely or pointing on the killer. But thats not for flexing it's more to poke the tongue out at so.
I honestly get tbagged like once or twice a month as a killer main, I have no ######### idea how posts like this are a thing, it just doesn't happen to me, nor do I see how tbagging is even an issue.
This is pretty much how I feel as well and think solo players like myself get treated like crap, because the killer assumes us solos are part of a toxic swf.
Had a Leatherface last night repeatedly hit my body on hook several times before walking off. He did this every time I was hooked...and for what? I never t-bagged, didn't DS, didn't have unbreakable, etc. This behavior is pretty common in the solo games that I play.
That could just be something that players does on hook. Like a tradition or ritual.
Not defending it but not really toxic.
It doesn't do anything in terms of the match and just wastes a little bit of the killers time.
I find the forums have higher toxicity than the game itself.