When is ds finally getting a nerf ? Apart all the bait threads, this is something serious right now.
@Peanits @Almo ? If you ever played as hag you'll notice how the perk is not just an anti tunnel perk, but a massive time waster that allows survivors to always play super aggresive, jump in a locker, bodyblock hits even injured just to waste time, and completely go out of the purpose of the perk. Get multiple downs and out of nowhere and don't risk anything because they have unbreakable, or get grabbed and tak because maybe they have borrowed. There are so many situations where you can't snowball anymore just because of decisive strike, so my question is if you're looking into changing it or not, and if not why not
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yea but for them to work killers have to work for it
with Pop and Surge you have to either down someone or hook them.
with ruin it can be taken out in sec making it useless.
with DS survivors don't have to work for it
just get down and hooked and for 60 sec do whatever they want with out worry.
Perks don't always need to be earned, their sole purpose is to help you. What's more, a perk having to be "earned" doesn't exclude it from its inherent classification as a second chance perk. Can you tell me what's inherently wrong with perks that don't need to be "earned" like Agitation, Botany Knowledge, or Deja Vu? Or does this only apply to second chance perks? If so, please elaborate.
Edit: Grammar :P
Perks don't need to be earned - but something that gives you such a strong line of defense/second chance should be earned.
DS is a perk that can hault the momentum of a game in some cases, against some teams, on some maps. And nothing was done to earn that power.
Killers have to earn pretty much everything that can hinder the survivors objective.
New survivor: The Nurse.
I don't think you took into account distance between gens, Killer chasing survivors, perks, hooks, slugs etc.
If three gens pop before first hit, you are doing something wrong.
I play killer and survivor about 80/20. When I play killer, I start to think that maybe DS should be nerfed or even reworked. Then when I play survivor, I get stuck with camping/tunnelling ghostfaces and quicky remember why that won't ever happen.
We just can't have nice things because the bad apples will ruin it for everyone. At the moment, I'd rather have to work around how it is than everyone else have to put up with those experiences.
DS is "earned" by the killer being desperate enough to pick you up within 60 seconds of you being unhooked. The killer deserves to lose momentum if they decided to go back to the recently unhooked survivor instead of properly distributing pressure. "Earn" is a very subjective word.
DS is fine.
If you don't tunnel you will most likely not get ds'd anyways and if you down everyone so quickly that you end up getting 59 second ds'd then you will most likely 4k anyways based on the pace of downs.
It's only overly strong during endgame but that doesn't justify a change to the perk in my book.
Also keep in mind it's still an one-time use perk with a skillcheck. Everyone messes up a skillcheck once in a while so even if you legitimately get tunneled off the hook chances are you mess up that skillcheck and wasted a perk slot making Decisive risky to a small extent.
Earned - it doesn't mean what you think it means. Consult your nearest dictionary and get back to me, bud.
And while you do that 2 gens or more are popping lol.
The only nerf DS need is being disabled if other survivor is hooked, if I hook a survivor and I spot and catch you again in less than 60 seconds since your last hook I'm being punished for playing good, I'm not tunneling and the perk lost the purpose of being an anti tunneling perk.
People need to stop going after DS. There are many other issues on both sides which are far more important for changes. You say that survivors can play agressively if they have ds but if they are playing agressively they aren't on gens, so it's actually helping you. It's not that hard to either eat a ds which is less than a 5 second stun or just avoid picking people up within 1 minute of them being unhooked. If your downing survivors fast enough that you've downed everyone else and have been ds'd, then clearly you are in an incredibly strong position already and it's not gonna make much of a difference to your overall outcome of the game.
If survivors start acting cocky when they have ds then its actually HELPING you because they aren't on gens. Isn't that what u want? You can always just eat the ds or leave them on the ground if your that paranoid about it. Plus if you run into someone who was recently unhooked after you hooked someon else, just don't go for them. Simple as that. Try downing the other two survivors or applying gen pressure or using ur killer's power.
Surge is viable if you use it on the right killer with the right build.
You say that it gives them a second change for playing bad but you've also played bad for tunneling that survivor or going for them, especially if you know they were recently unhooked.
Earned - obtained in return for labor or services
Here's the dictionary ^
Looks like "equipped the perk and hit the skill check at the proper time" isn't specifically excluded in it. Judging by how confident you were, it seems like you were unaware of this. Seems like common sense to me :/
The deva have never officially said the only purpose of DS is anti-tunnel and have actually confirmed the opposite.
If your nerfing DS, get rid of Moris
moris and keys both are broken, ds too.
btw this comment is the example of why this community is immensly biased and doesn't understand what is good for the game. because everyone just looks at their side ad doesn't look at the big picture. doesn't face good survivors and doesn't understand why certain perks are mathematically too strong against the other side, always.
Well no it shouldn't work for 60 seconds no matter what I belive it should have an activation period where unless the killer starts a chase with you it shouldn't activate the activation period could be for like 30 seconds if the killer does start a chase it last for 60 seconds
Plz dont nerf DS i swich from killer to survivor in the last week and i pass from rank 20 to rank 3 with DS, UB, DH and kindred i need to make the killer life miserable a bit more before they nerf it. Because i love being invisible for a minute after each hook i can do whatever i want without getting punish and from the dev point of view that fair
EXACTLY
Except the community says its anti tunnel not the devs.
tunneling means you chase the person straight off the hook, directly with no other action in between, maybe 2 times in a row after the second hook just because that guy is on deathhook.
That's why ds exists, to completely prevent matches where literally I see nobody with ds and I just know I can deathhook super easily one person hook cornered in an angle of the map and get them out of the game really fast.
Doesn't matter what the community says, if the devs say one thing is supposed to work in another way, it is that way.
They should just change it that if survivor performs action which progresses their game, such as repairing generator, unhooks the perk de-activates. I would still keep the action that you can enter lockers and heal without-de activating. If you can repair damn generators you obviously aren't being tunneled, just carried with 60 second immunity. They can buff the timer then to 2 minutes all i care but you shouldn't be able to use DS as an offensive perk when you can run next to the killer repairing generator practically in his face.
🙃Why...So...Serious?🤪
I know what tunneling is and the devs said DS wasn't anti tunnel. It was created to be a second chance perk. But you seem to complain about it's current form so maybe let's go back to it where you didnt need to be hooked.
Sure they designed it in an anti tunnel way it still isnt an anti tunnel perks the devs never said it was, it is a community given name so the argument that it is "anti tunnel" fails. It was designed this way because the devs didnt want survivors to have a free second chance to avoid hooks in general.
"The purpose of the perk". And what is the purpose of the perk according to you? I'm just going to put on my mind reader hat and say "it's an anti tunnel perk". Guess what? You are wrong. That is an assumption made by the community. BVHR have never said it is only intended to be used for countering tunneling. Survivors can play the game however they want to just like killers. You don't get to tell survivors not to "play super aggressive, jump in lockers, bodyblock hits even injured just to waste time, etc".
exactly that's what I'm suggesting. if you heal, repair, cleanse, screw around for more than 20 seconds without being 32 meters within the killer you're not getting tunneled, that's impossible
Lets do like that
Ds is not an anti tunnel perk
Is an perk that will nto let you be hooked twice in less than 1 minute
as you killer dont like gen rushing we dont like being killed in 2 minutes
well why so serious when you get facecamped because of no reason then?
what does this even mean? This game is considered a competitive game, 2 sides against each other, and the most effective way to win is staying serious I'd bet, and there are a lot of people who seem to play seriously, because when you play your matches are determined by a rank or the future MMR, so if not staying serious means I have to literally play not caring about winning, or escaping, or not doing any objective, I won't do that, because this is not what this game is for. Competitive doesn't necessarily mean pro league level of play super good discord communication btw.
Part of the issue with DS IS ITS LOCKER "TECH" ABUSE!
There is no counter play to a survivor jumping into a locker with DS and until that is removed DS will be an issue.
If the killer opens the locker they get DSed and the survivor gets away.
If the killer leaves the locker and the survivor gets away.
If the DS locker interaction was changed to the DS not going off but the survivor falls out of the locker into the dying state with DS still having its remaining duration going then that would fix the issue by letting the killer slug the locker-ed survivor and it will still let DS have its full min of up time.
Let's say what needs to be said
DS with Randoms - fine and does the job
DS with SWF/Incredibly competant Randoms - INCREDIBLY unfun to go against and needs addressing.
The latter because they strategically dive bomb the killer and use DS as an offensive tool - which is NOT its purpose.
Btw just to add to my point (on the new Scott video)
yes, it was created as a second chance perk, 100% ( very unhealthy for the game, 100%). The devs decided to rework it, because second chance perks can be overpowered, and this was the case, so it is no longer a second chance, but a completely new perk now supposed to be an anti tunneling perk as McLean said. You didn't watch the devs livestreams, that's why you don't know when and who said it
Easiest solution would be perk categories, and only allow someone to use a limited amount from certain ones. Like, you can't run Unbreakable and DS together.
The main issue is, imho, that the game is at a point where it'd need a complete mechanics overhaul to balance and fix things, but all those noisy elitist brats will throw a tantrum and harass the devs even worse should that happen.
Edit: I changed idea. Btw yeah if someone jumps in a locker the perk deactivates, 100%, but if the killer is tunneling the perk can last forever for me, don't care
DS isn't an issue. As killer you have to play around the assumption that they have it and it's near useless just how survivors play against BBQ, discordance, noed, etc.
no, you are wrong, McLean said it was supposed to be an anti tunneling perk, and that stands. Even if the devs said " oh the perk is not an anti tunneling perk just another second chance " wouldn't mean its fairness at its current state, an opinion against TONS AND TONS of games where ds completely breaks everything and survivors just go ds into borrowed into ds into unbreakable into multiple combinations you can do with just 1 perk, it's literally absurd.
McLean may have said it but it was never stated to be anti tunnel by other devs si who is right why disregard other devs who said it not to be anti tunnel.
Fair enough...
I was jus quoting The Joker😏
You left the window wide open in the title of your post so I went with it 🤷🏼♀️
All it takes is to look at Tru’s, Otz and Umbras games when they go against the good survivors teams to realize its mechanically impossible for them to win these games as killer.
Perhaps it’s reasonable to say not all games are like this. But it’s not reasonable to argue that it’s not broken.
DS and Unbreakable allow these teams to be mechanically impossible to win against.
yeah those situations where a 50/55 second later everyone is healthy because maybe you went to protect some gens and left a chase and you get the chance to get a free grab / fast down and you get ds'ed out of nowhere are super frustrating. maybe 30 seconds of ds remain, and he jumps in a locker near a place where he knows you're wasting time far away from the gens that are getting pushed, that's super frustrating.
Second wind but no one uses it
usually games like that where you are forced to have a set build decided by the devs ( like overwatch) just become hated by the community.
Obviously would work 100% as a solution, but would make the game very boring to have "1 perk slot for a second chance 1 altruistic perk 1 end game perk and 1 objective perk" Disagree.
discordance is counterable, and even confirms how doing gens separately is better
BBQ is counterable in many ways ( lockers, hide behind the gen, discordance, accept that it's not that strong and you can still hide in those 40 meters, stay 40 meters near the hook, etc)
noed forces you to respect a perk the killer might even not have, so I'd say it needs a complete rework for how it works and absurd condition of wasting ages to find all 5 totems while you need to repair 5 gens, 1 person is always getting chased, rescue hooked/slugged survivors, and several people can die during the match. Too much time waste for maybe nothing.
Decisive Strike should be disabled for every survivor except the Obsession once the exits are powered.
(Since the Obsession is the only player who can use Decisive Strike, this would stop changing who the Obsession is, requiring other perks like For the People, Furtive Chase, or Nemesis to change the Obsession and allow multiple Decisive Strikes during Endgame)
who, where and when?
Decisive Strike was never meant to be strictly an anti-tunnel perk. The dev you tagged even responded to a thread confirming this.
You think it's only anti tunnel because that's what these forums have led you to believe.
1 killers are not OP, at all, wow I haven't heard this in a long time, literally.
2 super organized swf squads win because of bad and big maps, and because of medkits that make you lose literally all the pressure you have and even make you have a portable borrowed time always when you need it, so you can literally rush the basement with borrowed time and then use the Styptic Agent to be invincible for 8 seconds. That's nuts
No One Escapes Death should last for a certain duration and depend on the number of remaining totems; the more totems standing, the longer it lasts. That way, it's not an all-or-nothing punishment for cleansing 4 totems instead of all 5.
Oh ok XD
Edit: I never watched The Joker, sorry