What IS ds considered (read the post before commenting as I will obviously know if you didn’t read)
People say its Anti-tunnel, people also say its anti-momentum.
WHICH IS IT?
People say its Anti-tunnel, people also say its anti-momentum.
WHICH IS IT?
Read THIS post.
Tldr: This is an archived version of the DBD forum, it has all posts, comments and media. The archived data will be published at the end of October. This site is not in any way affiliated with or endorsed by Behaviour Interactive.
Comments
I've never heard anyone say it is anti-momentum.
DS also works when there is no tunneling, so the answer should be obvious.
Currently it is used as anti momentum in an offensive way
To be anti tunnel it would deactivate when touching a survivor objective like gens or totems etc.
the devs said it was changed to be anti-tunnel BUT thats not the case.. it gives you a full minute of doing gens without problems or the locker move... if they want to make it anti tunnel then if you hook anothed person it should automatically deactivate... then it comes : but what if killer slugs blah blah... welp then you got farmed or,, just git gud''
I’ve seen people say it before, even a dev but someone on this thread also said it was said by a dev as “anti-tunnel” so I am straight up confused as only one is a good idea (anti-tunnel) while anti-momentum isn’t the best idea
Its meant to be anti tunnel:
First question in the QA part says its anti tunnel I have highlighted the respective part.
Question: What led to the decision to put the timer on Decisive Strike?
Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed
Only peanits has ever called it an anti momentum perk which isn't correct as the people who designed the perk flatout call it an anti tunnel perk.
If your confused so is 90% of the forum users.
It's can be both, depending on how the Survivors use it. More often I see it as an Anti-Momentum perk because the DS users literally force the Killers to eat the DS.
So:
If a Survivor throws themself at the Killer with an active DS - Anti-Momentum
If a Survivor fails to stay hidden after getting unhooked and the Killer finds them again with no intention to tunnel - Anti-Momentum
If a Killer intentionally tunnels the same Survivor - Anti-Tunnel
Both
Ds is a second chance perk, so are unbreakable, borrowed time, dead hard, adrenaline and basically every survivor meta perk
The ones who call it that, do so because it validates their abuse of the perk.
It is suppose to be anti tunnel but it has many obvious issues that make it become forced
It is a strong perk that gives an unearned advantage for failing to win a chase.
Or for mistakes of teammates performing unsafe hook rescues.
Although it is up for debate, some devs have stated it is Not strictly anti tunnel
It is designed to be an anti tunnel perk, but at higher levels of play, it's used aggressively, rather than defensively, as it gives the survivor 60 seconds of invulnerability. It becomes even more oppressive when the survivor enters a locker as you can't even down them to slug them. When multiplied by 4 survivors, it gives the survivor team an extra 240 seconds grace period to do what they want. When combined with perks like dead hard and unbreakable, you're looking at collectively 5-6 minutes of the survivor team being invulnerable against the killer, not counting pallets / tiles / windows.
Decisive strike is perhaps one of the best examples of why you shouldn't balance your game around low skill level play. It is absolutely broken at high levels of play.
Its anti momentum the devs don't consider it anti tunnel
No dev says it's just an antitunnel perk.
Because if they do, they know they are objectively wrong.
Which is why when a dev comments on a "make ds properly antitunnel" thread, they always say something like "it's not supposed to strictly be an anti tunnel perk"
At the very minimum, it's classified as a perk.
I think the problem comes from trying to define it in one box when it can be used in multiple ways. I'm sure it was intended as an anti tunnel mechanic but it can be used aggressively to hinder killer momentum making at an anti-momentum tool also.
One counter to it is to tunnel it out early and then not worry about it on that player anymore, making the anti tunnel argument slightly mute in this scenario.
So the answer is... it's both, but its use and effectiveness varies based on how players utilize it and how killers respond to it.
This is a good answer.
I always recommend DS to my baby rank friends. They're not good enough at the game to avoid getting tunneled off hook. And at their ranks, tunneling is a real problem because killers don't know any better (and it's not even a suboptimal strategy at that level- they usually at least 3k no matter how much time they waste tunneling in true baby ranks LOL). Sometimes they have multiple games in a row where they get tunneled over and over again and that's very frustrating. The best solution is obviously "get better at the game" but there are unwinnable situations sometimes when you aren't playing 4 man SWF and you get accidentally sandbagged or farmed by your fellow low ranks, and not everyone is able to dedicate enough time to learn the game within a very short time period. Against a top rated 5 star baby rank tunneler, DS only delays the inevitable at that point, but it buys the survivor more time to maybe possibly escape AND gives baby rank a better feeling about the game knowing that he can't be COMPLETELY screwed over by his teammates. It's an anti tunnel perk then.
At higher levels, I guess you could say it is anti momentum. But, without a doubt, there is STILL tunneling at higher ranks. Even Otz tunnels once in a while.
DS will always be anti-tunnel insurance, regardless of the fact that some players will use it aggressively or in ways that killers don't like. I get that it's one of the more problematic perks, but it is very fair at low ranks, and still has counter play at high ranks (and it is allowed to have counter play to its counter play- most times people jump in lockers is because they are still getting tunneled. Besides, there aren't lockers everywhere on the map so it's not a consistent counter play to DS slugging by any means.)
Let's be real, higher rank killers tunnel more than babies. Babies just go after whoever they see because they're still trying to figure the game out. Higher ranks KNOW what they're doing and their tunneling is intentional
It began as anti tunnel, as seen in the above quote even Not queen said that. Then when people pointed out all the ways it could be abused and suggested changes to make it actually anti tunnel again the story changed... at that point @Peanits claimed it was anti momentum and it had NEVER been intended as an anti tunnel perk... again despite @not_Queen saying it was.
The examples of Devs or mods saying one thing and changing the story later is laughable at this point. Then they claim something was never said even though the internet keeps things forever, it’s almost like 1984
It is considered anti-tunnel regardless of what people want to call it *shrug*
If you got unhooked and ran right to do a gen in my face that isn’t me tunneling you. If I caught the person who I hooked you, hooked then, and still got you within a minute that isn’t tunneling.
Personally, I don't think it is either. I am always aware of the possibility of DS. My play style makes me rarely run into it though. I am usually already in another chase by the time the other person is off the hook. If they come and try to body block, I slug em and keep going with the other chase. That's now 3 people off of a gen - the one being chased, the one slugged, and the one coming to heal them (barring unbreakable).
I get DS'ed here and there, but usually due to downing someone right at the end of the DS timer and not paying attention. DS is most frustrating near the end of the game when you have 2 people left. You have not tunneled all game, so their DS is still viable. You are trying to protect that last hook and eat a DS for your efforts.
Want to fix DS from being as weaponized as it is? Simple: When the last gen is done, DS deactivates. If the survivor hops in the locker, DS deactivates. Problem solved.