For those calling PH and Deathslinger OP
Keep your distance against these two as much as you can. Not every killer is meant to be played against the same way.
For those who don't know, PH's punishment of the damned has a 2.75s cooldown - if you run straight after he misses you can get an 11m head start (4 m/s x 2.75s) which is close to the distance you get after being hit by an M1 killer (6 m/s x 2s = 12m). It would take him just over 18s to catch up (11m/0.6 m/s - without bloodlust) if you kept on running.
You are better off forcing a miss then 'holding W' rather than looping the same tile and letting him fake his M2.
On deathslinger - I bought him on console and gave up on him after some time. FPS and optimisation issues make him a nightmare to play as, since you miss even at really close range with his minuscule hitbox and janky aiming - he needs the fast ads to make up for it and even then his reload speed is the same as PH's cooldown (and he moves at 60% movement speed while reloading). Plus he is also a 4.4 m/s killer so his map pressure sucks even more.
This isn't to say either can't be strong in the right hands, but calling for nerfs isn't right unless perhaps they are buffed in other areas. I say this playing as them and against them - they aren't freddy or spirit's level at all.
Edit:
I am going to drop some links below. To illustrate my point.
Scott Jund - Strength of hold W
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fv1rD82kmMFungoose - Looping WITHOUT pallets against The Excutioner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JACM_U8c79w
Comments
Yea Doc, Spirit and Freddy are undoubtedly the best M1 killers. But the problem comes from the interaction. Survivors just spend the whole chase running forward instead of actually having meaningful interaction against Deathslinger. And PH just denies you from using anything. There is no chance to actually outplay the killer in a pallet loop or juke them into near misses. You just hope they mess up. You hope the Deathslinger misses. You hope your pallet fake works on PH. There's a difference in outplaying somebody and just getting lucky. And having to be lucky all the time has no meaningful interaction.
How about provide us gameplay and showcase the counterplay which you are continuing to ignore because you cant I'll be waiting.
I would say give him shorter reload but most DS run wardens keys which makes it extremely fast. Also 2.75 isnt alot to begin with. Also if you disagree with the fact that he doesnt have counterplay please provide gameplay footage of you consistently outplaying a good DS and if you do I will change sides on the he does have counterplay.
Bro you know you can reply to multiple comments at once. Stop flooding the page, you don't have to reply to every single comment either.
Ok I can tell you and show you next DS game I'll record and show you and even commentate to show you the lack of counterplay but for now I'll tell. The lack of counterplay is how he forces you to GUESS when hes gonna shoot his LESS than a SECOND projectile you can not counter something you can not react to.
Not only that the counterplay depends on the SKILL of the deathslinger himself just like spirit if you want to counter her hope she is bad. You have ignored all my points and ignore me when I ask for some footage.
Instead of speaking nonsense, why don’t you record yourself playing against them like 10 games, and show us what you can do. Also, play SOLO at HIGH RANKS. typing on a keyboard has no value whatsoever, anyone can say anything!
@azume I am not saying that they don't require some changes, but this notion that just because they excel at close range chases there is no counterplay then that is wrong. Because counterplay isn't just looping a pallet or jumping windows, for example good OoO users learn to keep distance from the killer - the same method can be applied to these killers. I have already linked Fungoose's video in my original post. He has similar ones for DS too.
Moreover this constant, '1v1 me bro' is kind of childish - unless you're 11 please stop.
I'd rather the Dev balance outlying killers than worry about solid mid tiers like these 2. Clown and Spirit for example need more attention.
Azame* I've told you time and time again there is no way to tell when hes gonna shoot. Leaving you to guess. Not to mention he shoots so fast its unreactable. Provide me gameplay footage of you consistently outplaying DS then I'll change my mind but you most likely wont because the "counterplay" yall speak of doesnt exist and you guys cant preform it yourself. Just like the other guy who tried to claim he has "counterplay."
Its like banging your head on the wall. A good DS should be able to outplay a survivor who doesn't break LOS, if the survivor doesn't juke (or the killer aims right) and gets hit then yeah the DS should get a hit - fair play to the killer the hit box is tiny (I am saying this from a console POV) - even then it doesn't guarantee a down because YOU can break his chain and stun him for 4 second (more or less a decisive strike duration - is this not also a counter play? Because Plague can make you broken without even seeing you) and take the deep wound. He is meant to be strong in his chases because what else has he got? Can't teleport, can't traverse the map with his gun, walks around at Hag speed and isn't exactly inconspicuous to make full use of his terror radius.
I have said before I would prefer his ADS mechanic to change, but just to neuter him as you have suggested by giving him essentially a 4.75s cooldown (which is close to Bubba tantrum) every time he misses is insane. It suggests perhaps you shouldn't talk about reasonably balancing him because it seems that you have an agenda to push.
No more '1v1 me bro' please.
First off I never said give him a 4.75 cooldown. Breaking LoS would be easier if DS couldnt insta shoot similar to huntress she cant insta throw even with babushka. The only way to break LoS is to hope he misses and make distance. Breaking his chain is not an easy feat when you slide off every object imaginable.
I do agree that that if his chase is nerfed hard he will be bad but having a power that has no counter to compensate for lack of map pressure isnt good design. Also his chain break isnt even that long and punished you as a healthy survivor for getting yourself free.
Explain to me how you can avoid putting yourself in this situation? At some point you WILL get found and have to go through a chase with PH. At some point during said chase you will have to either use a pallet or window and be forced into getting hit by his power or not use a pallet or window and get hit by an m1.
"JuSt DoNt GeT fOuNd, pLaY StEaLtHy!"
I don't believe I actually said I think PH is op: I don't.
I just think he is a poorly designed killer.
One day first game with PH get ass whooped by meta swf. Second game again PH 4 gens done get flamed for abusing OP killer xD
deathslinger isnt op, were not saying that hes just boring and unfun, the ads speed should be the speed of about the old machine gun huntress, bam instantly makes him a lot more fun to verse without taking away all his chase potential
That's true actually. Demogorgon seemed like a killer who was balanced enough to have both map pressure and good chase potential but his portals need some help
If he is already holding his power and see me actually vaulted the window or pallet he release his power because I'm on animation lock. Even more easier for him to see me vaulting the window or pallet if I have an item on my hand, if I vault he knows because the item disappear, so he just release his power and hit me through the window or pallet.
He is kind of a combination of Nurse, DeathSlinger and Huntress...range killer with power than can go through walls, window, and pallets.
Also I would like to see the people here that gives expert advise on how to play against PH and DS...can you post a video of you playing against any of the said killers? It's easy to sound cocky when you got no proof.
Some survivors are just one trick ponies. If they go against a killer that they cannot just loop like any basic M1 killer...than that killer is OP!
They refuse to believe that they’re just not that skilled. If they can’t counterplay using the sam basic boring techniques they always have, killer is OP. How dare DBD force mindless survivors to try to play smart. This isn’t a DS or PH issue. They have this same issue with Nurse and Spirit....any killer that forces a survivor to play smart instead of letting them do the one thing they’ve learned in 4 years.
You're saying that we are dumb and you are smart...can you post an educational video with you playing against PH or DS to teach us dumb people?
What you're seeming to forget is that there's a delay between going for the attack and it hitting. It doesn't take very long to get out of the animation lock and immediately dodge left or right so unless you have perfect timing, hesitating will just result in the survivor being given an easy amount of time to run away.
I think as long as you put them out of the way, you're fine. Him and hillbilly (at least current billy) are the perfect examples of both having map pressure and chase potential, both having counterplay so it's perfectly balanced.
Now I'm convinced that you're talking out your ass, either that or simply so bad at Killer you dont know any better.
Oh no, you suffer from "whataboutism". Let me prescribe you some common sense, take it twice a day after having a meal. With that you should have the ability to acknowledge that the problems I described are just as valid as yours, and you won't feel the need to get defensive over dbd forum posts.
I literally play the dude. The attack's thin and the entire area of effect is glowed in red before firing, making it incredibly easy to dodge. Sure if they're holding an item, it's easy to launch it while they're stuck in an animation lock, that's the only exception. I'm a rank 1 killer with a P3 Pyramid Head, so I hope I'd know the delay can make it easy to dodge the attack after vaulting or throwing the pallet if whoever's Playing PH hesitates because he doesn't want to be stunned for 3 seconds just because he missed a clunky attack.
Chill down bruh many calculations are you ok? XD
Sorry that a couple of simple calculations are too much for you.
agreed of Triangular Headpiece Humanoid, but Daddy Slinger is something else imo.
looping him is extremely hard and if he knows what he is doing, he wont commit to a chase outside of his range and instead go for an ambush on the survivor further down the line - if you got a really good Deathslinger, the only thing you can do to beat him is to genrush as fast as you can and never allow him to build up any pressure by downing multiple people / injuring multiple players at once. its really tough otherwise.
and im saying this as a Killermain i'd like to add.
Edit: id like to add that im not asking for any changes for eigther of them btw. im just saying that people arent wrong when saying that Deathslinger is a really strong killer - and i can understand where some are comming from when they assume he is OP (which he isnt, he is just hard to play against)
this is sad. i could imagine why you play survivor. just press w and m1 at gen right?