HERE'S SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT, MOST OF YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE BASED ON LACK OF SKILL.

**DISCLAIMER: This post assumes the reader knows the difference between a complaint and constructive criticism.**

**ALSO: This pertains to the games mechanics. It has nothing to do with bugs, glitches, and/or lack of the games overall intended performance.**

Dead By Daylight is a 4v1 asymmetric game which makes for having perfect balance near impossible. With that said, the developers at Behaviour have come about as close as they can while constantly tweaking and making adjustments as the game evolves. Both roles have a job to do, while the killer is reliant only on themselves the survivors job is much more team oriented making it to where just one weak link can cause the team to fold. Survivors can be eliminated from a trial one by one slowly lightening the pressure from the killer whereas the killer is an unstoppable force who doesn’t go away. The survivors only defense is to run using raw skill and map knowledge to waste the killers time in order for their team to get objectives done. The killer however also uses skill and map knowledge combined with mind tricks to catch and disable the survivors. Killers also all have a unique ability to give them and added edge. It is imperative that while a killer is focused on a target the rest of the team is focused on objectives. Also, after the killer disables a survivor(hooks or slugs) he puts pressure on the rest of the team. Most survivors lose because people aren’t doing their job and most killers lose because the entire team does their job so well. Now that we’ve covered some basics, lets look at a few things people frequently complain about. 

Camping. Everyone hates a camper. If a killer is camping there should not be 2-3 survivors hiding around the hook waiting for a chance to rescue, there should be 2-3 people on gens getting 1-2 to pop before the first hook state is up so the killer knows his time there is being wasted and leaves the hook to hunt. If a killer sees someone in the vicinity of the hook they have no incentive to leave as they know gens aren’t getting done and they have a possible chance at preventing the rescue and/or hooking someone else. The survivor should try to lead the killer away and if they don’t commit to the chase the survivor should immediately get on a gen. How about face camping? In my experience(5000 hrs played) if someone is getting face camped its because they did something the killer didn’t like. Maybe you ran the killer for 3-5 gens, maybe your friend did and when they finally got downed you Luke Skywalker-ed the killer with a flashlight, maybe you’re a Blendette or another character that killer has a personal bias against. Who knows? But I do know that most teams run borrowed timed. A SKILLED team can get a rescue in almost ANY circumstance. The mechanics behind team rescues work in favor of the survivors, hands down. I realize camping ruins the fun for those who don’t know how to deal with it seeing as it happens so often, but really players just need to learn the techniques to combat it.

Lets look at totem spawns. Some people want them better hidden, some people want them easier to find. The truth is, on any given map(for most maps) out of the 5 totems that spawn, 2-3 will be well hidden and 2-3 out in plain sight giving an equal chance for survivors to find the hex quickly or for the killer to prolong it's life. This is in addition to totem locations being relatively standard from realm to realm(in jungle gyms, on hills, upstairs in buildings, in or outside the killer shack). Some say totems should retain progress if the cleansing is stopped. That’s nonsense. Totems don’t take that long to cleanse and they rarely last an entire match. If they were to retain progress every time a killer chased a survivor off them, there would be almost no chance to try to defend them. I realize Hex perks like NOED, Devour Hope, and Ruin are extremely powerful but that’s the logic behind high risk, high reward. If you’re a survivor who struggles with totems, work on your map knowledge. If you’re a killer who can't get value out of Hex perks, work on your map pressure or use other perks that give you more value.

Flashlights! Oh, what a headache these are for killers in the right(or wrong) hands. For a killer to be blinded and drop a survivors 4-5 times in a game is infuriating. I get it, but do u know how difficult flashlights are to learn to use properly? I would honestly say that of all the people I have seen attempt a flashlight save, less than 20 percent succeeded. Not only that, but id say a solid 25-30 percent weren't even close and paid the price after the killer puts the survivor they picked up on the hook. Now, a good killer will look around or face a wall if they know another survivor has one. So yes, they are strong but both sides have their pros and cons with them.

Killers are over-powered? They certainly are not. Have you ever seen an elite SWF absolutely terrorize a killer like they were The Strangers? When a team has clear communication, encyclopedic map knowledge, parkour looping skills, and executes teamwork with military precision they are near unbeatable for any killer. The fact is, SWF is over-powered. The reason so many matches result in a 4-kill is because survivors don’t work as a team, focus on objectives, and make poor decisions. I have had many a night where I queued as a solo survivor and escaped 20+ games in a row, without communication. I have also had nights where my entire team died with the same consistency. If survivors spend time crouching and hiding, using urban evasion to get around, getting off gens when they hear the slightest heartbeat, leaving gens to get a rescue, not commiting at crunch time, running to the corner to heal, self-caring every time they get hit, stopping to do totems or search chests when the killer has extreme pressure on them, playing scared or extremely cautious, and not maintaining gen pressure then they are doomed to lose, even against sub-par killers. All of those examples happen in a majority of matches and they all come down to the players lack of fundamentals and poor decision making. Keeping in mind that every match is different and RNG can also play a role in the outcome of any given match, there really is no greater common denominator for why survivors lose than the teams conduct.

With all of these things taken into account it brings me back to balancing. The game is designed for both sides to thrive equally. Nobody would play this game if 4 survivors died every game, or if all 4 escaped. There has to be a happy medium for both killers and survivors to enjoy. If you think it has been an easy road for the developers to get this game where it is today as well as continue to improve it and keep it balanced, think again. I'll reiterate my feelings that they(the devs) have done a well as they could have thus far. If you find yourself always having things to complain about, maybe you should look at your own skills as a player and see where you need improve. Its very rare that I hear top tier killers OR survivors complain about so many of the communities common issues. If you are truly top tier in both roles and still have room for complaints, maybe you should think about switching to a different game.

Tagged: Trusted

Comments

  • @csandman1977 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237268#Comment_1237268

    If the whole team is clickspamming and dancing in the exit gate then, i would say you got outplayed. The skillful part comes before they hit the exit gates.

    Nah every Killer that encounters this situation is obviously the best killer in the game. There wasn't a single thing they could've done better. Survivor OP /s

  • @Batman781 said:

    **DISCLAIMER: This post assumes the reader knows the difference between a complaint and constructive criticism.**

    **ALSO: This pertains to the games mechanics. It has nothing to do with bugs, glitches, and/or lack of the games overall intended performance.**

    Dead By Daylight is a 4v1 asymmetric game which makes for having perfect balance near impossible. With that said, the developers at Behaviour have come about as close as they can while constantly tweaking and making adjustments as the game evolves. Both roles have a job to do, while the killer is reliant only on themselves the survivors job is much more team oriented making it to where just one weak link can cause the team to fold. Survivors can be eliminated from a trial one by one slowly lightening the pressure from the killer whereas the killer is an unstoppable force who doesn’t go away. The survivors only defense is to run using raw skill and map knowledge to waste the killers time in order for their team to get objectives done. The killer however also uses skill and map knowledge combined with mind tricks to catch and disable the survivors. Killers also all have a unique ability to give them and added edge. It is imperative that while a killer is focused on a target the rest of the team is focused on objectives. Also, after the killer disables a survivor(hooks or slugs) he puts pressure on the rest of the team. Most survivors lose because people aren’t doing their job and most killers lose because the entire team does their job so well. Now that we’ve covered some basics, lets look at a few things people frequently complain about. 

    Camping. Everyone hates a camper. If a killer is camping there should not be 2-3 survivors hiding around the hook waiting for a chance to rescue, there should be 2-3 people on gens getting 1-2 to pop before the first hook state is up so the killer knows his time there is being wasted and leaves the hook to hunt. If a killer sees someone in the vicinity of the hook they have no incentive to leave as they know gens aren’t getting done and they have a possible chance at preventing the rescue and/or hooking someone else. The survivor should try to lead the killer away and if they don’t commit to the chase the survivor should immediately get on a gen. How about face camping? In my experience(5000 hrs played) if someone is getting face camped its because they did something the killer didn’t like. Maybe you ran the killer for 3-5 gens, maybe your friend did and when they finally got downed you Luke Skywalker-ed the killer with a flashlight, maybe you’re a Blendette or another character that killer has a personal bias against. Who knows? But I do know that most teams run borrowed timed. A SKILLED team can get a rescue in almost ANY circumstance. The mechanics behind team rescues work in favor of the survivors, hands down. I realize camping ruins the fun for those who don’t know how to deal with it seeing as it happens so often, but really players just need to learn the techniques to combat it.

    Lets look at totem spawns. Some people want them better hidden, some people want them easier to find. The truth is, on any given map(for most maps) out of the 5 totems that spawn, 2-3 will be well hidden and 2-3 out in plain sight giving an equal chance for survivors to find the hex quickly or for the killer to prolong it's life. This is in addition to totem locations being relatively standard from realm to realm(in jungle gyms, on hills, upstairs in buildings, in or outside the killer shack). Some say totems should retain progress if the cleansing is stopped. That’s nonsense. Totems don’t take that long to cleanse and they rarely last an entire match. If they were to retain progress every time a killer chased a survivor off them, there would be almost no chance to try to defend them. I realize Hex perks like NOED, Devour Hope, and Ruin are extremely powerful but that’s the logic behind high risk, high reward. If you’re a survivor who struggles with totems, work on your map knowledge. If you’re a killer who can't get value out of Hex perks, work on your map pressure or use other perks that give you more value.

    Flashlights! Oh, what a headache these are for killers in the right(or wrong) hands. For a killer to be blinded and drop a survivors 4-5 times in a game is infuriating. I get it, but do u know how difficult flashlights are to learn to use properly? I would honestly say that of all the people I have seen attempt a flashlight save, less than 20 percent succeeded. Not only that, but id say a solid 25-30 percent weren't even close and paid the price after the killer puts the survivor they picked up on the hook. Now, a good killer will look around or face a wall if they know another survivor has one. So yes, they are strong but both sides have their pros and cons with them.

    Killers are over-powered? They certainly are not. Have you ever seen an elite SWF absolutely terrorize a killer like they were The Strangers? When a team has clear communication, encyclopedic map knowledge, parkour looping skills, and executes teamwork with military precision they are near unbeatable for any killer. The fact is, SWF is over-powered. The reason so many matches result in a 4-kill is because survivors don’t work as a team, focus on objectives, and make poor decisions. I have had many a night where I queued as a solo survivor and escaped 20+ games in a row, without communication. I have also had nights where my entire team died with the same consistency. If survivors spend time crouching and hiding, using urban evasion to get around, getting off gens when they hear the slightest heartbeat, leaving gens to get a rescue, not commiting at crunch time, running to the corner to heal, self-caring every time they get hit, stopping to do totems or search chests when the killer has extreme pressure on them, playing scared or extremely cautious, and not maintaining gen pressure then they are doomed to lose, even against sub-par killers. All of those examples happen in a majority of matches and they all come down to the players lack of fundamentals and poor decision making. Keeping in mind that every match is different and RNG can also play a role in the outcome of any given match, there really is no greater common denominator for why survivors lose than the teams conduct.

    With all of these things taken into account it brings me back to balancing. The game is designed for both sides to thrive equally. Nobody would play this game if 4 survivors died every game, or if all 4 escaped. There has to be a happy medium for both killers and survivors to enjoy. If you think it has been an easy road for the developers to get this game where it is today as well as continue to improve it and keep it balanced, think again. I'll reiterate my feelings that they(the devs) have done a well as they could have thus far. If you find yourself always having things to complain about, maybe you should look at your own skills as a player and see where you need improve. Its very rare that I hear top tier killers OR survivors complain about so many of the communities common issues. If you are truly top tier in both roles and still have room for complaints, maybe you should think about switching to a different game.

    I agree 100%

    It's an asymmetric game so it's bound to happen that people start to adapt this "us vs them" mindset leading to an extreme amount of whining on both sides.

    cover3.jpg

    Like this image is survivor mains vs killer mains in a nutshell.

    You see situation like this:

    -"NOED is OP and unfair!1!1!"

    -"JuSt Do ThE bOnEs,lol"

    Or this:

    -"DS is OP and unfair!1!1!"

    -"DoN't TuNnEl,BrO"


    All the time.Mix that with a lack of self reflection and you see the majority of the DbD community.

    It's always easier to blame someone else rather than yourself but that's nothing new in the gaming community.

  • @Waffleyumboy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237089#Comment_1237089

    You can't rescue from a face camp, nor does the campee's skill matter in the process.

    That depends on the situation though.

    A facecamp after all gens have been done can be countered with the right perks and a little team effort.

    Facecamping an early hook is an entire situation though that's true.

  • “If a killer is camping there should not be 2-3 survivors hiding around the hook waiting for a chance to rescue, there should be 2-3 people on gens getting 1-2 to pop before the first hook state is up so the killer knows his time there is being wasted and leaves the hook to hunt.”


    THIS 100%, you wouldn’t believe the times I relay this strategy to some of the people I play with as survivor, and how the survivor mains always make fun of me and don’t believe this strategy works. Saying stuff like, “Oh yeah just let him (get camped) great strategy!” or “Oh wow look your strategy worked, you died!”

    Also those same survivors call doctor op and when I say just predict his power and hide in a locker they don’t believe me.

  • @Ghoste said:

    Disagree about face camping. Been face camped plenty of times with no provocation. Borrowed Time doesn't do anything vs. camping Wraith, Freddy, Leatherface, etc. It's BS and has nothing to do with skill.

    If you can't save a teamate from hook with BT when facing M1 killer like Wraith and Freddy, you need to get gud. Unless you face a Killer with insta down or someway to cancel your unhook animation, the worst that can happend is that you get hit once. And if the killer is face camping, you should be doing gens in the first place.

  • I stated that every game and every situation is different. Sometimes there is no hope against camping(depending on what killer, loadouts, how many survivors are still alive, and a few other factors) but as a general rule, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, campers CAN be outplayed and out-skilled if the survivors have a fundamental understanding of the games rescue mechanics(which are in their favor) and rock solid teamwork. I'm not saying that rescues can be guaranteed, that would make the game one-sided. I'm simply saying that TOP TIER teams have an impeccable 4-survivor escape rate(some teams at 100+ matches and running) for a reason. It's not because killers are bad, it's because the game (all things considered) are in their favor as well as their player skill and ability to work together as a team.

  • @Ivaldi said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1236996#Comment_1236996

    "Most of your complaints are based on lack of skill"... How is it lack of skill when the game is literally Killer sided? Survivor Latency is the biggest flaw this game has that leads to Killers being superior. Dead Hard not working, being hit after vaulting when you're a mile away, being hit while dropping a pallet, or pallets just not dropping at all even though you mashed your space bar into oblivion.. And camping killers have nothing to do with skill, "Just do gens" is a bs excuse and fix to the overall issue. The fact of the matter is, the killer is A) wasting a players time B) making it a poor experience for said player that just sat in a 10-15 minute survivor queue C) gets rewarded for literally not having skill.

    First of all, that's blatantly false. Just look at the nerfs to Ruin, Nurse, nigh-perpetual Pig and Legion nerfs, sabo buffs, etc...

    Second of all, the game SHOULD be Killer sided. Keep in mind, there are FOUR survivors to the one killer. Make a survivor better than a killer, and it becomes literally impossible for a killer to win

  • @BigBrainMegMain said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237080#Comment_1237080

    Like I said.

    I'm done replying, but you can't just ignore these key factors that go into each match.

    In a day or two, this topic will be lost in the sands of time.

    Should have looped him for 5 gens then like my friend did to a leatherface. He got a video too.

  • @Dwinchester said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237470#Comment_1237470

    I have been right up against the wall and still got blinded. The angle on the odd bulb is insane.

    Odd bulb doesn't change the angle. The onky thing which affects the angle is shadowborn (and maybe monitor and abuse). I'm pretty sure you weren't close enough or at the edge with the face still not fully covered.

  • @katoptris said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1236895#Comment_1236895

    It used to work on both the rescuer and hook person. The only downside before it was a one time perk like ds.It got changed along the way to being used numerous time.

    I don't like it working like that either. The problem is right now you're relying on someone else to have it to stop you from being tunneled. Fine for swf, but crap in solo. If it worked on you, then you would take away the random factor.

  • @DwightOP said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237905#Comment_1237905

    Odd bulb doesn't change the angle. The onky thing which affects the angle is shadowborn (and maybe monitor and abuse). I'm pretty sure you weren't close enough or at the edge with the face still not fully covered.

    Sorry, it's sapphire lens that increases the width, which I think gives it a better angle, but they're not exactly clear as to what it does. I was literally right against the wall. The locker tech is another one that needs to go. Basically if the killer can't see it, then it shouldn't blind. You shouldn't have crap fov, and still be vulnerable outside of it.

  • I think my plague needs some more love 😰 I love it when survivors dance around me like they’re not scared 🤦🏽

  • @csandman1977 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237038#Comment_1237038

    He went over face camping. There are plenty of videos of people rescuing people being camped. Even face camped. Its called skill. The skill of your team. Like it or not, this is a team oriented experience. No survivor should be able to 1v1 the killer the entire game.

    Complain all you want about bugs and glitches. He never said not to. Bugs and glitches were left out for a reason. There are fundamental areas that people need to learn. Bugs and glitches make it harder yes, but barring any of them, there are no situations, except maybe Mori, that skill can't overcome.

    Alright; show us the skill it takes to rescue against a face camping bubba or infinite tier 3 myers.

  • @Batman781 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237038#Comment_1237038

    Did you really just say this game is killer sided? First, the skill cap for killer is much higher because mechanically they are at a disadvantage and outnumbered. Two, Dead Hard isn't broken. The reason people go down when they use it is because Dead Hard is only active for a split second while hits register in an instant. In order for Dead Hard to avoid the hit it has to be timed properly, which is extremely difficult. Hence why a lot more people don't use it, and why many who do use it improperly. Dead Hard is not meant to just avoid a hit , it's meant to give the survivor a slight window of extension to get them to a window or a pallet. It's foolish to think that a perk could not only be considered, but considered meta when it's use was solely based on clairvoyance. Three, camping is not an "issue", it's a tactic and a foolish one at that. What is camping? Camping is staying at a hook and waiting for someone to come to the rescue instead of going to look for them. The killer is only wasting the survivors time if the survivors don't make use of it. As a general rule, if there are 2 gens done and one being worked on when a survivor takes their first hook and the killer is camping, the rest of the team has sufficient time to finish the gens and get the rescue before the end of second hook state. The killer does not run on the survivors time, both roles run on the killers time. The less time the killer has to chase, the greater the chance of the survivors escaping. When survivors aren't doing gens they are not wasting their own time. They are in fact giving time to the killer. Top tier killers don't camp(unjustifiably), lower tier killers do. The reason is because top tier killers know that good survivors are taking away from their time by getting gens done. If a killer knows someone is close and focused on rescue they won't move, and that's not camping. Complaining that the killer camped your entire team to death state because you showed the killer you weren't getting anything done, doesn't mean there is something wrong with the game. It means the survivor needs to improve their fundamentals and the way they play. Camping is so frequent because there SO MANY survivors who reward killers time and time again by not doing their job that they just keep doing it because it works for them.

    TLDR. Fact of the matter is, you're wrong.. stop throwing massive paragraphs to try and justify your reasoning.

  • @Ivaldi said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237070#Comment_1237070

    TLDR. Fact of the matter is, you're wrong.. stop throwing massive paragraphs to try and justify your reasoning.

    "TLDR" translates to "I suffer from intellectual laziness". Stop trying to state a fact about something you are completely ignorant to seeing as you just admitted to not even reading what I wrote. However, I'll give you an A+ for your starring role in today's episode "I Know Everything".

  • @Ivaldi said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237089#Comment_1237089

    Alright; show us the skill it takes to rescue against a face camping bubba or infinite tier 3 myers.

    I've actually lost a survivor while face camping as bubba.... twice. First time I got Insta blinded by two flashlights, which made me miss with the saw. Second time, a guy juked me, causing me to hit the hooked survivor, then hit her again, activating borrowed time.

    So yeah it can be done, but most of the survivors in my region are God tier. Nothing like getting a 15k hour solid rank 1 swf on Ormond as a rank 7, 350 hour bubba with a silly build. But hey, gotta prioritize those queue times over rank differences.

  • @Ivaldi said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237089#Comment_1237089

    Alright; show us the skill it takes to rescue against a face camping bubba or infinite tier 3 myers.

    You choose to ignore the 15 other killers on the roster. It may be impossible to rescue from a facecamping tier 3 myers, but any team with proper skill and game knowledge wouldn't let him get tier 3 in the first place.

    Insidious bubba builds well I'll give you that one.

  • images (4).jpeg

    I give you a boop you deserve it.

  • @csandman1977 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237268#Comment_1237268

    If the whole team is clickspamming and dancing in the exit gate then, i would say you got outplayed. The skillful part comes before they hit the exit gates.

    Yes these "toxic" high skilled SWF teams outplay me, it's not what I complain about. It's the not treating me with respect that I complain about. As survivor I never t-bag or message killer that a game was easy and such. The killer knows if survivors was better, you don't have to rub it in.

  • @DBD78 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1237944#Comment_1237944

    Yes these "toxic" high skilled SWF teams outplay me, it's not what I complain about. It's the not treating me with respect that I complain about. As survivor I never t-bag or message killer that a game was easy and such. The killer knows if survivors was better, you don't have to rub it in.

    I dont condone the exit gate antics one bit.

  • Good! Me a few weeks ago, a red rank killer starting to play Nurse which I only played once before. My god I was so outplayed and bad it was insane, and some message me on Xbox that I was garbage, that I should quit playing dbd and such. And of course some was the opposite trying to help me with tips on how to get better, so not all bad but some people 😕

  • @DBD78 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1239265#Comment_1239265

    Good! Me a few weeks ago, a red rank killer starting to play Nurse which I only played once before. My god I was so outplayed and bad it was insane, and some message me on Xbox that I was garbage, that I should quit playing dbd and such. And of course some was the opposite trying to help me with tips on how to get better, so not all bad but some people 😕

    I honestly haven t been seeing very many toxic messeges lately on Xbox. It definitely makes the game less of a chore

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