Something could be fixed but never will.
Just had a game playing against Spirit on Sanctum of Wrath. She had BBQ, NOED, Nurses and Monstrous Shrine.
Didnt loop her for very long. Didnt use God loops. As soon as first person was downed, no gens had been done. Was only 30 seconds in. Literally face camped and hit the hooked person aggressively nodding up and down. This would have been fine if our random teammate didnt farm us off hook right in front of her without Borrowed time, like every one of us. Heck even when she downed two people at once, she just camped the one she had hooked.
To top it off, the two gates were beside eachother and hatch was closed. So I got NOED downed, thrown in basement and repeatedly hit and aggressively tea bagged for playing the game.
So I ask why camping is rewarding free kills. If you follow the perfect survivor game after somebody us downed and on hook. The killer, if facecamping automatically gets 2 kills regardless of BT or DS. This will never be fixed. And as much as I feel the map changes are somewhat good that they're happening, at this state itl'l be the same old camping game but on a smaller map with less loops to survive. Yes I understand killers need something to kill but it cant be this.
There was no reason to camp, tunnel and aggressively teabag when using NOED and playing camp games. Even more so when gates are so close survivor may aswell walk up to the killer and let them smack them.
Thus my idea, and debate if you will pros and cons. I think Borrowed Time should be a general thing. Whether fir 5, 10, 15. Whatever. It would solve the camping issue to a certain degree. And if the killer is smart they'll either waste 15 seconds waiting when anything can happen or he smacks you down from tunnelling and gets DS'd. Which again, if a killer camps and tunnels, why not get punished.
I know to many I seem 'Entitled survivor' which I'm saying now, I play more killer but I'm sensible enough to consider both sides. Camping and tunneling isnt fun for either sides unless you're some sick #ssh#le. Let me know your opinion on solving this issue.
Comments
I think that on your first hook, if there are no survivors in a 12M Radius, and the killer IS, the hook timer should be paused. This would be disabled if all Gens are complete. I think that'd be completely fair.
Guaranteed 2k is balanced to the devs I'm pretty sure. 2 survivors will get to do chase and the others will get to do a bunch of gens. Balance.
Nice idea but easily could be taken advantage of though. Game could be held hostage if gens are never done. And say the hook is in proximity to a totem or gen. The survivors timer will go down and the killer could realise someone is close. I understand it's taking Steve's perk to the extreme but I dont think it will work as intended.
Now granted the killer may get that 1 kill potentially if they're dedicated even after exit stage starts but for that survivor hooked. Unless you give a score reward for being camped, they're not gaining anything for all this time. Unless you give them a "Hang in there score" for hanging there 🤣.
Actually, I think getting points while getting camped is a good idea. That way players are encouraged to stay in the game. I also imagine killers would stop camping (at least on the first hook) when the hook state doesn't change. Players could get a lot done in the time they're camping. And yeah, the killer could use it to gain information -- but survivors would get equal information. A much weaker base kindred, as it were, which I think would make it worth it.
It'd also make camping a less viable strategy for killers with NoED who just camp the first guy, realizing that the others will gen rush, and not have time to do totems.
It's funny, people complain if a killer camps a hook, and people complain if a killer slugs.
At the same time, if I just hook someone and walk away, all I did most of the time was give them a free health state because you know there's someone five meters away just waiting.
At some point I have to change my strategy if survivors are gonna rush every hook. But then they whine that I was "toxic". I don't know what the answer is, but meh. You can't have it both ways.
Just for the sake of making sure everyone is on the same page, the devs balance around a 2K average, not a guaranteed 2K. So the idea is that killers should get 3-4 kills about as often as they get 0-1 kills, as opposed to getting at least two kills in every game.
Iirc, they tried something similar at some point and they ditched it because it could be abused by the survivors.
There are, however, other possibilities that could be tested, just to see how they work out.
One way is to brute force increase the hook stage length. Camping is often a 2k at least (with a minimally competent killer, that is) because of the duration of the sacrifice sequence compared to the time required to finish the gens, even if rushed. That's before taking into account early (corrupt intervention) and late (NOED) game perks. Make the sacrifice last 3 min (arbitrary example figure). Now, early hardcore camping would yield a much smaller reward.
Another possibility would be to make it so that a sacrifice is always 2 min of hang time or 3 hooks, whichever comes first, but the first unhook doesn't remove the residual hang time. Examples: if you are unhooked after 30s, you still have 1m30s of time on your second hook, although you would already enter struggle. On the other hand, you're unhooked for the first time after 1m30s, you still get your remaining 30s on your second hook. To avoid abuses by the survivors, they can still attempt to kobe off first hook with the usual penalties, but not later on. This would reduce the reward of early hardcore camping as well.
Lastly, the hooked survivor should always be given an incentive to hold on (bloodpoints), instead of letting go. I also think that inverting how struggle works would be needed. Struggle should be automatic and one would smash the button to suicide.
These are just ideas. They might work or not, but there are definitely QoL improvements that could be considered regarding this issue.
There are many solution that could be tested. The devs tried with the pause timer, saw it could be abused, and then just abandoned any effort under the excuse "yeah, it's legit whatever" and then they implemented a plethora of game mechanics that do encourage and reward camping. Pretty odd for a team that talks so much about the 'fun factor' and 'interactions' and how those weigh on their decisions.
Funny thing about that is, if a survivor is immediately hanging around for that save. That's 1 guaranteed person not doing a gen for however long it takes for you to leave, full health or not. Which means if he wants to waste time waiting instead of stretching a hook for as long as they can to ensure progress. That's on them. Smart survivors wont immediately go for save because they want to pressure elsewhere while still giving incentive to go back to hook.
In regards to slugging, it's just not a fun play when a game is snowballed. In my opinion no game show be able to be snowballed. Just kills the idea of the game. No chase, no excitement. Having one slugged or two if you know others are nearby but that's your risk cause that's what unbreakable is for. I dont get greedy so unbreakable is only ever used on me when theres two and I slug for 4k. But I find them again very quickly so it's useless. Which if survivors want to waste perk slots on perks that they might not get to use I.e DS, Unbreakable. Then that's 2 perks wasted. If they do, I usually get them done early so I dont get screwed exit gate stage. But no, it's not whining. Its stating points that clearly need addressing.
Campers are only rewarded if the Survivors reward them. Do the gens and stop giving them free kills.
If someone camps me I just hang on the hook I’ve even messaged random ppl as I play solo 99% of the time when I’m bein camped on first hook telling them just do gens killer is camping I’ll hang on as long as I can. Then maybe they can get everything done so the killer only gets one kill. If ppl want to camp it don’t bother me I don’t personally camp or slug and don’t understand how someone can complain about camping then also say slugging takes away fun but oh btw I slug when two are left for my 4K. That’s still slugging so I guess camping when only two ppl are left would also be ok for you if the killer is doin it for their 4K and some campers still get 4ks so maybe they camp hoping crappy survivors will give them a 4K for it so guess that should be ok with you as well. Saying your not greedy but I slug for my 4K makes very little sense.
Somebody clearly didnt read the post xD dude, read the post then post a comment. Then you'll get the full picture.
Perhaps I should have phrased it better. I usually slug for the 4th if I know the they are nearby. If I dont think they are, I then hook with BBQ or I'm doc and just shock. I dont keep them on the ground for 5 minutes if that's what it seemed. Slugging is only acceptable from strategic advantage. I try not leave any person down for longer than 30 seconds in case they're healed or they get up.
I think they mentioned even having a kick function for people trying to farm you off the hook. But I haven't seen any of this idea tossed around by them for at least a year plus. But if you could kick people off you from unhooking or making an unsafe unhook, it could help, But if put in tandem with pausing hook progression while the killer was within range of the hook that would be the perfect combination.
My point was I don’t see a reason to complain about something then state you do it even if it’s for strategic purposes. I realize that helps at end game and your free to do as you please but ppl will complain about being slugged at all and trust me I’ve seen how camping can be strategic in games as my teammates almost throw themselves at a killer as they camp until I’m the last one standing. So until survivors simply stop tryin to save when someone is camping then that’s also a strategy to use not a very good one in my opinion and camping I would assume has to be boring from a killers side but it does work. I don’t camp because I like the chase staying busy and usually have to many drinks in me to want to just watch someone on a hook.
I get your point. It's a fair point. This is less about the slugging and more about the camping. Mine was more based on it was just face camp right from the start. Nobody attempted to save in the first 20 seconds. My main issue was a random who doesn't have BT goes up and attempts the save. Like I knew there was no point, but yi still get punished as the game goes by quicker rather than just leaving the guy on hook. In the end I as the only one doing gens couldnt even get out. Cause two gates were beside eachother. I just feel there needs to be an address to somebody just farming off a hook and the killer just being able to camp. I'm just saying, I hate freebies in games. A killer camping is 2 kills guaranteed at least.
I did, the hooked survivor was farmed, thus the Killer was rewarded by the survivors
Okay, with all due respect, here's my own view on it.
#1 - Camping MIGHT get you a safety pip. It's just "stupid" survivors who go for those saves and blame killer for taking advantage of it.
#2 - If you or a team mate is being camped, why are you not on gens? 1 person per gen means 3 gens in 80 seconds, that can be a win easy.
#3 - It happens far less often than people think. I say this because yeah if you're dumb enough to unhook someone within close proximity to the killer you deserve to be punished for that. The killer can't guard gens AND hooks at the same time. Do your objective.
#4 - Camping is easily punished. Yeah it's not fun being camped, but if you're not thinking of just yourself you'll realize that the longer you keep yourself on hook, the easier it will be for your TEAM to escape.
#5 - All of the above is the biggest problem with asymmetrical pvp games. There will NEVER be any form of balance that everyone agrees on. There will always be people who say "This is OP, NERF" "Punish x because y".
I'm just gonna try and enjoy the game while it's still alive.
I feel like you didnt read the whole post. As I said, I was on gens got 3 done but I had one of the randoms farm everyone off the hook without BT which screwed us all. And by the end of it, when I was last one alive after cleansing what totems I could find and doing gens. I got NOED downed with two gates beside eachother where there is literally nothing I could do. Yes, it's all well and good saying that killers get rewarded if survivors are stupid enough but just consider the less experienced or new survivors to the game that have no idea about what to do in that situation either than 'Oh I have to rescue my teammate'. Not everyone will know to just walk away from it.
I, too, hate the aggressive nodding.
I don't care about camping or tunneling, as it is a playstyle that isn't bannable.
Overall, aggressive nodding after downing someone or while camping them is a sign of sweat and toxicity and this happens to me almost every match. It is the only truly disgusting thing.
Unfortunately that's what happens when you decide to play with others, you have to hope they aren't noobs. In this case it's still the survivors fault, they didn't know what they were doing was bad. You can tell them after the game is over to not go for hooks against camping killers in the future.
Ironically this is one of those things that was made worse with the ruin nerf, we're seeing more noobs at higher ranks than they should be and it screws the older players over.
"Just had a game playing against Spirit on Sanctum of Wrath."
"I got NOED downed, thrown in basement and repeatedly hit and aggressively tea bagged for playing the game."
I feel like i'm missing something here...
This just sounds dumb. Survivors rush gens. Survivors rush hooks. No, survivors just do their objectives. And neither is particularly toxic. It's literally how survivors are supposed to play the game. Also, killers need survivors to off hook in order to rehook - how they are supposed to play the game. The idea that survivors shouldn't be doing gens as quickly as possible or off hooking when you walk away is pretty strange. Putting the word "rush" in front of everything survivors do has become a way to indicate their actions are some unfair afront to killers, and that's just not the case.
I'm not saying an idiot survivor feeding the killer isn't, in part, to blame for this outcome for others, but the ultimate fault lies with the obnoxious killer who chose to play like a complete douche. It's not this guy's fault he got both a super toxic jerk of a killer and a potatoe teammate, yet because of the vast number of changes over the last year+, he has absolutely no recourse. He cannot simply "git gud". He did not choose his teammate. He cannot control the killer playing like an ass. And in this all-too-often situation, the end game is complete stacked against him. This is why it seems like solo surviving is going to die out and DBD will mainly just be a SWF game.
Well thank you for a respectful reply for one.
Honestly my main point is that most of the time it's our own team that screws us over as survivor, why should the killer be punished for taking advantage of that? And yeah for newer players they can be confused but that's part of learning the game don't you think? Learning when to go for saves and when to leave them. If you remove the "learning curve" of the game, you'll be left with a game that holds your hand the whole time.
Camping and Tunneling do indeed "ruin" the experience of the survivor. But only if you judge your experience by how long you last in the match or if you escape or not. I hate it when I get camped or tunneled, but they are indeed legitimate strategies. It's the killers job to hunt us down and kill us by whatever means necessary.
I don't think you're entitled for your viewpoint, as you've obviously thought about both sides of the argument. I think the problem is when we as survivors start to blame the killer for our teams mistakes and playing how they're supposed to. And unless BHVR changes how the game is played, camping will always be a strategy people use.
I think this is the first time I've ever agreed with you.... Mostly.
Only thing I want to correct is that killers don't need you to be unhooked for you to die. And putting camp/tunnel in front of everything killers do has become a way to indicate their actions are an affront to survivors, which isn't the case either - except REAL tunneling. People call anything tunneling these days honestly. "Gen Rush" is a stupid term to pin on survivors because it wasn't us who made them go so fast. Survivors are indeed supposed to do gens fast, isn't that the point of escaping? Who in their right mind escapes anything slowly?
I'd love having more perks like Devour Hope, where in order to benefit from them you need a survivor to be unhooked while you are a certain distance away. And they shouldn't be weak either, because if they are no one will use them. I'd actually main killer again if I had more perks like this.
Who are you even addressing with this? I didn't say a thing about anything being toxic, or anything about doing gens.
It's just that if all the survivors are going to hover around the hook every time, of course I'm just going to hang around and smack them all for doing that. It's not that I'd WANT to camp a hook, it's just that in situations where they do that, why would I NOT just hang around and beat them up for it?
And yet when such a situation arises, they complain that I "camped" or "slugged" them.
Lol, mate you either haven't read the post or you are clearly just a killer idealised player. Nothing wrong with that of course but these comments are for creative productive comments. Not your toxic bs. If you have read the post, your comment wouldnt be so blindly stupid 🤣
You make a great point and honestly. If it wasnt literally face camping nodding up and down repeatedly hitting your body for the sake of doing your job. I could agree at least proxy camping is a strategy for sure. But I tried experimenting by spending a few games being a dickhead to see how it feels I.e pretending to farm then kill all 4, face camp and hit bodies, aggressively tunnel with not BT or DS. It really is boring as heck, to me anyways, but most of all it's free.
I dont mind if a killer stays within a 20 metre radius as they're still close enough to knock you down soon after but I dont believe it is fun for anyone who has to suffer through their time being chased for 30 seconds only to then just sit there on hook getting nothing as a reward whereas a killer can just stand there and profit. Both are boring but only 1 is rewarded. And I play more killer and I'm 10 now usually getting reds and purples. It's hard and I dont always get 4 but I feel more challenged and happy with myself than just sitting at a hook all game XD.
Yes, because me questioning something you said and saying I feel like i'm missing something is very toxic.
Hypocritical of you to suggest my comment isn't creative or productive but you're not willing to explain to me what i'm missing.
It is scummy to do that, but he's just taking advantage of bad play at the end of the day. I understand those kind of plays from the killer, but as someone who plays survivor too I can understand when that kinda play sucks.
I think the problem with camping is how NOED gives you another free kill. Down the first person fast and then facecamp them. If the survivors do gens instead of saving (which is the best thing to do) then you can hit someone else with NOED and then facecamp them. If they cleanse totems then they won't have time for gens and you can facecamp someone else. You can't punish camping if they are using NOED. You shouldn't be able to guarantee 2 kills with camping.