The road to starting the match with the gates open
“Survivors shouldnt feel safe in front of the killer” - devs
(the required disclaimer: ive got 1800hrs and been rank1 on both sides at the end of the season dozens of times)
knowing that looping is a problem, why are we nerfing bloodlust?
Bloodlust vs a skilled survivor is already nearly useless, since after looping him for long enough to get enough bloodlust to catch me, i can just drop the pallet and force em to lose bloodlust when he breaks it, then its off to the next pallet.
what seems extremely obvious to me, a survivor main, is that survivors raged and review bombed after the last patch, and the devs solution was to cave to one of the items on the survivor main checklist on the road to starting the match with the gates open. press 3 to twerk at the exit gate.
the point of bloodlust, was that the devs say the map assets need to be fixed to prevent looping, yet i see no map fixes in the notes, just a nerf that will cause even more “being safe in front of the killer.”
This is what happens when devs arrogantly assume that they know the gameplay better than the players, and make decisions based on their own rank 15ish experience. The obvious solution is to have a small group of the most experienced players (not streamers), on both sides, review your potential decisions. The near universal opinion of your veteran players, was that the last patch was the first step in the right direction in a long time... only for you to then immediately sabotage yourselves by caving to a tiny 500ish player review bomb. Well, since it worked, next time they will bomb you much harder.
(the required disclaimer: ive got 1800hrs and been rank1 on both sides at the end of the season dozens of times)
knowing that looping is a problem, why are we nerfing bloodlust?
Bloodlust vs a skilled survivor is already nearly useless, since after looping him for long enough to get enough bloodlust to catch me, i can just drop the pallet and force em to lose bloodlust when he breaks it, then its off to the next pallet.
what seems extremely obvious to me, a survivor main, is that survivors raged and review bombed after the last patch, and the devs solution was to cave to one of the items on the survivor main checklist on the road to starting the match with the gates open. press 3 to twerk at the exit gate.
the point of bloodlust, was that the devs say the map assets need to be fixed to prevent looping, yet i see no map fixes in the notes, just a nerf that will cause even more “being safe in front of the killer.”
This is what happens when devs arrogantly assume that they know the gameplay better than the players, and make decisions based on their own rank 15ish experience. The obvious solution is to have a small group of the most experienced players (not streamers), on both sides, review your potential decisions. The near universal opinion of your veteran players, was that the last patch was the first step in the right direction in a long time... only for you to then immediately sabotage yourselves by caving to a tiny 500ish player review bomb. Well, since it worked, next time they will bomb you much harder.
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I can't play this game twah, but I'm not sure I even want to anymore. Identity 5 on my phone feels somehow MORE balanced, MORE engaging, And you never feel like the game is completely out of your hands.. even when you're losing
I dont like the changes, they should BALANCE THE MAPS FIRST then they can remove bloodlust.
I really want to seeif the patch comes out with Dstrike nerf that they've been talking about for 3 months or so.
exactly. the next time the survivors dont get their way, there will be a much larger and more organized bomb, and the devs have nobody to blame but themselves. you dont negotiate with terrorists/survivormains.
Except they had talked about nerfing bloodlust several times before. This was just the first time they actually showed us what they plan to do. Before it was just "we are looking into ways to change bloodlust".
If you people really think review bombs did anything in just FEW WEEKS you have no clue how game dev works.
And you are clearly naive if you think they managed to do all that design work (prototype, design, playtest, etc.) of the bloodlust nerf in just a 2 weeks after the review bomb. Newsflash, designs processes take a lot longer than that. Have you ever worked in game dev? I have, and if you did you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Really just think about how much time it took the devs to get out changes to anything. There is no such thing as a 2 week turnaround.
Bye Bye Dead By Daylight [insert proverbial toilet flush here].
Wait I almost forgot;
You need bloodlust to catch survivors?
All those bad players like Marth, Panda, Tyde, and Tru that also rely on it in certain scenarios/ 'bad' loops really do need to "git gud."
They're garbage, though, so it makes sense.
You're really an idiot if you think all the devs are doing is just changing numbers. Ever hear of prototyping? Play Testing? Things go through a process it's not just some guy going "I'll just change this now". If it were they woulda changed it the day after. SMH.
ACTUAL design in ACTUAL game dev (sorry hosting your own server is not game dev) is a long, drawn out process that involves a lot of people making a lot of decisions and doing a lot of work to ensure whatever they do is the right thing to do.
Like really, you think any business would just knee jerk react to something that could potentially back fire and make it worse? NO!! That's the last thing they want. That's why things take as long as they do. That's why it took so long for Hag/Trapper changes. Because there is a lot of work that goes into that.
It's seriously disrespectful of you to think that's all a game dev's job is. You probably also think a NASA astronauts job is to put on a space suit and float around in space.
Panda and Tru don't bloodlust every single survivor. If they get it it's actually a natural thing, they don't explicitly go for it. I would hardly say either of them rely on it.
Tyde hasn't posted much killer lately, and he does rely on it more.... but I honestly don't think he is as good a killer as Tru or Panda or Marth (no offense to him, those guys are just really good killers).
Marth I haven't watch in a while, and he mainly played Nurse when I do, but he is also a really good killer that doesn't rely on bloodlust. I've seen him do it on purpose before, which he is more willing to do than Tru or Panda, but he's doing it more to troll the survivor than because he needs to do it. He's explicitly being toxic with it, which just goes to show that 1) good killers don't need bloodlust and 2) it is a problem in the game.
the function of bloodlust is already in the database. i get it, you dont know what that means, its ok. changing values in SQL isnt complicated and testing a function is rather quick and easy. whats hilariously “disrespectful” is that you think it takes weeks or months for a value to be changed in a database.
the irony that you dont know what you are talking about, while telling me that i dont, is really funny.
Because I don't get in on your little circle jerk and actually point out all your absolute bull ######### I'm worked up? You must be imagining things. Guess you like having an echo chamber eh?
No one said they did it to every survivor.
I certainly did not say that.
Props for trying to twist the conversation though.
If you're trying to converse with me, please address my point.
It isn't hard to do that but that's not all that happens. SMH
Also calling you an idiot for thinking that isn't an insult, it's a statement.
knowing that looping is a problem, why are we nerfing bloodlust?"
Say again
If you think a short paragraph is a novel you have very bad reading comprehension skills.
"@Raccoon said:
All those bad players like Marth, Panda, Tyde, and Tru that also rely on it in certain scenarios/ 'bad' loops really do need to "git gud."
No but you said they RELY on it, which means they need it to catch survivors. They don't.
LOL Then that's a voice in your head.
MAYBE IF I STARTED TO TYPE LIKE THIS YOU WOULD HAVE A POINT!!!!!!
Not sure this was a blooped post... Delete this one
I'm a survivor main and i never chase the killer, thats simply unnecessary.
Gen rush, save other survivors and escape. Dont be an ochido-wannabe
PS: you are not a survivor main anyway, dont try to fool us xD
No you're right. Let's all just agree with each other blindly because we're mad at the devs. No dissenting opinions here.
It couldn't just be you don't like to be explained how wrong you are? I mean really, this is a complaint thread if anyone's triggered here is y'all.
just saying the most recent time they talked about blood lust on the dev stream they mentioned blood lust with just lower speed , maybe a month before that they spoke on how no chase should last 45 seconds and that they were gonna lower blood lust speed but also lower the time it takes to gain blood lust
so if it takes more than 2 weeks for them to change their minds it is certainly not by much
I literally post in like 5 threads at a time, and only to make points/counterpoints to the topic. I came here to make the counterpoint that the devs talked about it before and it's not a knee jerk reaction. Explain how I'm bothered?
I know who this guy is BTW.
Go on, finish the rest of the sentence beyond the bolded section.
You can do it.
I believe in you.
The bloodlust changes have been planned for a while, it's not as a reaction. If people are upset about exhaustion, why would they change bloodlust? Would it not have just made more sense to revert the exhaustion changes, or just scrap them to begin with?
You say that it counter looping, but in reality, it doesn't. Like you mentioned, even if they do get bloodlust during a loop, as soon as you throw down a pallet their bloodlust gets reset. It serves to punish the survivors who rely on windows and mindgames more since bloodlust continues to accumulate while vaulting or going around obstacles, and only resets while breaking pallets (or breaking the chase for an extended period of time).
Honest question though, because I've asked this before and got the same answer just about every time, when was the last time you actually got to bloodlust 3? Bloodlust 1 (most common, will often happen before even a single pallet is thrown) is unchanged. Bloodlust 2 is only slightly reduced.
I ask because for the most part, it's not going to make a difference. Even if you do get to bloodlust 2 on a regular basis, (assuming 4.6 base speed) you're still getting a ~8.5% speed boost, compared to the previous ~13% boost. That's the difference between closing the gap 66% faster vs. 100% faster. It's still massive. BL3 now closes the gap twice as fast as compared to three times as fast.
I have only ever reached bloodlust 3 a handful of times, all of them intentional when messing around with speeds (e.g. How fast can I go with PWYF and NOED while in BL3? A: REALLY FAST.)
Now don't get me wrong, I'd welcome some map changes, but I definitely think the reaction is way overblown. I have rarely seen it used out of necessity. The vast majority of the time I see it used, it's because someone's getting outsmarted and outplayed (killer constantly falling for mindgames, taking the long way around, running loops/tiles the wrong way), and so the killer ends up moving at supersonic speeds. Hate me all you want, but in those cases, I don't think the killer should get a speed boost. If they're getting outplayed like that, they should be a lower rank and that survivor should be a higher rank.
What I'd really like to see: Rework it completely into a different mechanic that specifically counters running along the same path over and over and over. Make it so it doesn't activate just because the killer keeps making mistakes, but because the survivor is using a cheese tactic.
I completely agree. If the devs want to tweak bloodlust, fine, but they need to get their priorities in order. Fix the maps first and then change it. If you want to make QoL changes for survivors, I can support that, but please fix the core issues of the game first. Your broken report system, bad map design, weak killers, and faulty rank system should be at the top of the list right now. And for heaven's sake, don't cave in to whiny babies review-bombing the game. Once they know it works, they'll do it again whenever they don't get their way. It's the equivalent of giving a spoiled kid everything he wants when he throws a tantrum. He'll just keep doing it over and over until it stops working. If the devs want to put this game on a better path, they can't keep caving like this.
Remove the ability to gain Bloodlust by being in a chase.
Remove the penalty of losing Bloodlust by breaking pallets.
Make it so that, while you're in a chase, every pallet that you break will GIVE you a Bloodlust Tier.
You lose 1 Tier every 5 seconds that you're out of a chase.
You lose all Tiers if you successfully injure or down a Survivor in any way besides the Trapper's Bear Traps.
As for super long window loops, those just need to be fixed to not be super long.
And yes, i most certainly didn't think of any negatives, so let me hear it.
i didnt say it countered looping, im saying that was its purpose when it was made. actual map changes need to be made to stop looping, but thats not happening and hasnt in 2+years except for a small handful of changes that i can count on two hands.
to answer your question, no, youre right, bloodlust 3 is rare. that being said, if you dont break the pallet and continue to bl3, you can then catch them even with the pallet, but thats a rare situation since “just break the pallet” is normal.
“hate me all you want, but in those cases, i dont think the killer should get a speed boost.”
hate you? never. i just think that the devs statement that “survivors shouldnt feel safe in front of the killer” is moot when im looping a killer for 5 minutes around every pallet in the map and chasing him clicking my flashlight when he gives up on me.