Do Not Stop the Hook Farming

Outland

This game has always said that game play is up to the player. Do you work with the team and work at escaping. Or do you play more solo, hiding and allowing the others to do the work.

I do not have to out run the Killer, I just have to out run you applies. Sandbagging is a thing and if that's how you want to play that's your right.

Now after watching the latest Q&A, they say they are looking at punishing unsafe unhooks. This goes against the freedom of playing scummy. If its down to me and you and I want to unhook you so that hopefully you go down again quicker, and let the hatch spawn so I can get out that should be a option.

How many people have just waited while the second last guy struggles and dies so you can grab the hatch. Loads of us have.

Like real life the game is filled with lots of personality types, the work together types and the let the world burn just so long as I escape types. I do not think that survivors that are in it for themselves should be punished point wise for being "that guy".

When it comes down to it, if the game only let one person leave a match, we would all be cut-throat. Why do we need to punish people who don't wish to play "for the team"?

TheHourMan

Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.

I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over." The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.

Orion

@Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.

I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

My personal freedom not to be farmed is being violated by how you play.
Your personal freedom to punch ends where my nose begins.

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:

Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.

I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over. The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.

The only problem with this is that if I don't try, they 100% just die on that hook. And if I do try there is a chance they get away. Who is that guy who says, a small chance at escaping and making more points... nah F'That I'll just die here on this hook.

Once you are on that hook, you really don't have much of a choice anyways, struggle for a few more points or just give up and die. Once you are hooked , whether you like it or not, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER OBJECTIVE. And if I do the action I deserve the points.

TheHourMan

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:

Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.

I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over. The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.

The only problem with this is that if I don't try, they 100% just die on that hook. And if I do try there is a chance they get away. Who is that guy who says, a small chance at escaping and making more points... nah F'That I'll just die here on this hook.

Once you are on that hook, you really don't have much of a choice anyways, struggle for a few more points or just give up and die. Once you are hooked , whether you like it or not, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER OBJECTIVE. And if I do the action I deserve the points.

There is zero chance they get away if the killer is two feet away from them. The only chance they have is if the killer decides to intentionally let them go. You don't deserve points for "saving" a member of your TEAM and dooming them at the same time, intentionally. If you did it by mistake, fine, fair mistake. But if you did it intentionally, knowing full well that there is nothing they can do to get away, then you don't deserve to be rewarded for that.

TheHourMan

You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:

Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.  :)



I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove  freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

There is a big difference between trying to nudge you into a certain playstyle and preventing you from griefing. The fact is that there is absolutely nothing another player can to do prevent you from getting them sacrificed unless they have borrowed time. They have no control over their character when you do this to them and are complely at the mercy of the killer. There is a big rule of thumb in game design and that is "do not punish players for something they have no control over. The people on the hook are being punished for your greed and there is literally nothing they can do to stop it unless they happen to have a certain perk equipped. That is a flaw in the game itself and should be patched out.

The only problem with this is that if I don't try, they 100% just die on that hook. And if I do try there is a chance they get away. Who is that guy who says, a small chance at escaping and making more points... nah F'That I'll just die here on this hook.

Once you are on that hook, you really don't have much of a choice anyways, struggle for a few more points or just give up and die. Once you are hooked , whether you like it or not, YOU ARE JUST ANOTHER OBJECTIVE. And if I do the action I deserve the points.

There is zero chance they get away if the killer is two feet away from them. The only chance they have is if the killer decides to intentionally let them go. You don't deserve points for "saving" a member of your TEAM and dooming them at the same time, intentionally. If you did it by mistake, fine, fair mistake. But if you did it intentionally, knowing full well that there is nothing they can do to get away, then you don't deserve to be rewarded for that.

They get away if the Killer, (like so many on this thread have stated) goes after the unhooker. Its not a 100% death rate unlike leaving them on the hook is. The dooming depends entirely on the Killer , something the unhooker has 0 control over. Again I say the action was done, and the points were rewarded. Removing points is a real bad idea.

Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?

Orion

@Outland said:
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?

They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.

TheHourMan

Der_Schatten said:

The Problem is not the "Farm" its the Killer Camping... otherwise there is not such thing as Farming. And what about : "Killer is Hardcore Camping... you now dont have a reason to unhook cuz u would not even get any points... just risking your own life"

And how will this affect BT?

What about when the killer literally just hooked them a second ago or was chasing you when you ran over to unhook?

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.

Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

TheHourMan

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:
You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.

Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.

TheHourMan

(Hint: it is to stop the hooked player from dying.)

If you intentionally get the hooked player killed, it defeats the purpose of not just removing hooks entirely and having the killer mori 
everyone right away. That is literally why hooks are even in the game. Not just to feed points to you.

You should not be rewarded for getting another player killed with an action that is meant to hel them. That is like saying "survivors should be rewarded for holding other survivors in place with the heal mechanic so the killer can get them"

Outland

@Orion said:

@Outland said:
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?

They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.

By taking away the points for an action, it makes it so that the action isn't viable/profitable. Therefore they are modifying game play. And I've never been one for much censoring of anything in my life, so I find taking away my points for the actions of a third party (the Killer) as unacceptable.

TheHourMan

Outland said:

@Orion said:

@Outland said:
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?

They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.

By taking away the points for an action, it makes it so that the action isn't viable/profitable. Therefore they are modifying game play. And I've never been one for much censoring of anything in my life, so I find taking away my points for the actions of a third party (the Killer) as unacceptable.

Should you be rewarded for sandbagging someone for the killer? I mean, whether or not they get hit is entirely up to a third party (the Killer) 

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.

Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.

Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.

And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.

And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.

This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.

Orion

@Outland said:

@Orion said:

@Outland said:
Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?

They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.

By taking away the points for an action, it makes it so that the action isn't viable/profitable. Therefore they are modifying game play. And I've never been one for much censoring of anything in my life, so I find taking away my points for the actions of a third party (the Killer) as unacceptable.

It's not their job to make every action profitable. You're the one modifying your gameplay because you want to get easy points. You can still be a scumbag if you want, or you can make (relatively) safe saves and get those juicy points. It's entirely up to you.

Just keep in mind that actions have consequences. You're free to do as you wish, but you're not free from the consequences. You "muh freedom" crowd often forget that all actions have consequences, and your freedom to act does not protect you from them.

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@Orion said:

 @Outland said:

Anyways look at this situation as the devs removing your freedom to play the game how you want. That is the main topic here, and I'm beginning to think I should have just stated that from the beginning, but what can I do now?

They're not removing your freedom to do anything. You can still grief other players. You just won't be rewarded for it.

By taking away the points for an action, it makes it so that the action isn't viable/profitable. Therefore they are modifying game play. And I've never been one for much censoring of anything in my life, so I find taking away my points for the actions of a third party (the Killer) as unacceptable.

Should you be rewarded for sandbagging someone for the killer? I mean, whether or not they get hit is entirely up to a third party (the Killer) 

But I don't get points for that, if I drop a pallet and stun the Killer and sandbag the player... yeah 100% I deserve the points for it. Are you saying that they should also be stripping points for that scenario as well?

TheHourMan

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.

Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.

Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.

And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.

And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.

This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.

If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.

TheHourMan

If anything, unhooking someone within 10 feet of the killer should make you have the exposed status. At least that way it would be kind of fair, since you and the unhooked surv would be just as vulnerable as eachother.

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.



Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.

Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.

And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.

And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.

This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.

If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.

Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.

Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.

Orion

@Outland said:
Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.

Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.

You were never guaranteed to get points for any and all manner of play. That's a sandbox game. If you want a sandbox game, go play one.

TheHourMan

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.



Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.

Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.

And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.

And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.

This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.

If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.

Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.

Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.

No. They're not. You can still get loads of points for going lone wolf. And you can still get loads of points for unhooking. You just can't get loads of points for preventing other players from escaping. You are wanting to be rewarded for actively stopping other survivors from escaping. It is the exact same thing as sandbagging and holding another player in place with heal. You shouldnt be rewarded for those either. Unhooking another player is to save them. Unhooking them in a situation where it got them killed is entirely your fault. It is the killer's job to hit people and if you fed him a free hit, you are helping the killer at the expense of other players. That is explicity stated as being agains the rules as a bannable offense.

TheHourMan

It's not about moral or immoral, it is about actively sabotaging other survivors and helping the killer get them. Yes, you do it for profit and not to help the killer, but the intention doesn't justify feeding survivors to the killer.

pauloandrade22

@Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.

Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.

Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.

And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.

And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.

This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.

Speak for yourself please.

Outland

@Orion said:

@Outland said:
Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.

Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.

You were never guaranteed to get points for any and all manner of play. That's a sandbox game. If you want a sandbox game, go play one.

Yeah you were, you do the action you get points, its currently coded that way, and they are now changing it to be otherwise.

Orion

@Outland said:

@Orion said:

@Outland said:
Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.

Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.

You were never guaranteed to get points for any and all manner of play. That's a sandbox game. If you want a sandbox game, go play one.

Yeah you were, you do the action you get points, its currently coded that way, and they are now changing it to be otherwise.

No, you weren't. Show me where the game was advertised as such. This is a mechanic that's being changed because the devs don't like how people are abusing it. By your logic, any and all changes to a game are "infringing your freedom".

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

Outland said:

@TheHourMan said: You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away. Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.



Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.

And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.

And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.

This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.

If it's not a team game, then maybe you should just do kyf one on one and tell me how fair it is. If you are that selfish, then yes, by all means, take a key and escape through the hatch when there are still 3 gens left. Leave your team behind. Escape through the gates as soon as they open. Whatever. But you should not be rewarded for forcing another player into a situation where they have virtually no chance of survival.

Guys, for the last time, STOP LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLE I USED... its not the f'n point. The point here is the devs are removing the freedom to play how you want and point up. We were promised a game where we can play as team based as we want or as out for myself as I want.

Somewhere along the line survivors complained moral police force into the game.

No. They're not. You can still get loads of points for going lone wolf. And you can still get loads of points for unhooking. You just can't get loads of points for preventing other players from escaping. You are wanting to be rewarded for actively stopping other survivors from escaping. It is the exact same thing as sandbagging and holding another player in place with heal. You shouldnt be rewarded for those either. Unhooking another player is to save them. Unhooking them in a situation where it got them killed is entirely your fault. It is the killer's job to hit people and if you fed him a free hit, you are helping the killer at the expense of other players. That is explicity stated as being agains the rules as a bannable offense.

I'm unhooking in front of a Killer, there is a element of risk there. The Killer could just as easily hit me. If the killer hits them, not my fault, its not working with them at all. Its taking guess that the Killer will take the easy way out and down the hurt guy.

And again they were as good as dead anyways. If I didn't unhook them, then they die on the hook.

Anyways I'm getting tired of defending your rights to play as free as you want. If you guys want to let your freedoms get punished I guess there is no fixing it. Just remember when it goes through, and then they eventually punish a behaviour that you don't feel should have a point punish on, I tried to warn you.

Or when no one comes to dehook you because... well its just not worth the risk. Enjoy those hooks, but of course you won't stay on the hook and drag out the camp, you'll just DC because no one is helping.

Outland

@pauloandrade22 said:

@Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:
Outland said:

@TheHourMan said:

You should not be rewarded for making a bad play. If you take a hit to protect your team mate when you unhook them, then good. More points for you. But you aren't brave enough to do that. You just want your team mate to go down so you can get them killed and then run away.

Its a valid tactic, I've been promised that I can play for the team or greedy for myself. And if that means unsafe unhooks the action was taken, the risk was present, and the job was done, points are due. Right or wrong be damned, the action was taken and yeah points are expected.

What is the purpose of the devs putting the unhook mechanic in the game? Because I guarantee it is not to give players another way of getting points.

Because getting one hooked, ranks up there with getting first minute mori'd.

And if they didn't give so many points, why would people do it in the end game. (Aside from SWF, thats another issue) but for 4 strangers that have no attachment to each other, I'll take the 5k leave over getting you off the hook if there is nothing in it for myself.

And that's human nature, in the end, when the chips are down, my life is more valuable to me then yours. If you argue that you are lying to yourself. So why can't I be true to my nature while playing this game, perhaps I'm that absorbed, that to me I'm the one that NEEDS to live.

This is a MULTIPLAYER GAME not a TEAM GAME, though it is starting to morph that way.

Speak for yourself please.

Are you referring to the human nature remark? If so you are not being truthful to yourself. Other then family its human nature to preserve your own life above all else. Why would I die for a complete stranger? (The initial concept of the game was for 4 complete strangers to enter into the ordeal).

If you want to see how truthful this would be, change the game on two fronts.

One no SWF, and two only one person can escape, and everyone else gets nothing, not points, just a thanks for playing, try again.

You see how fast the gameplay would change.

TheHourMan

Ok, bye. Have fun with that. This change actually gives us more freedom because it punishes survivors who intentionally get us killed, thus allowing us to actually play the game. Also, if you didnt unhook, someone else would.mist likely when the killer is gone. 

C4Garuda

Awwwww so me kicking you and denying the unhook isnt scummy enough for you, you scummy piece of scum? Scum it up like a real man, and go scum yourself!

Outland

@TheHourMan said:
Ok, bye. Have fun with that. This change actually gives us more freedom because it punishes survivors who intentionally get us killed, thus allowing us to actually play the game. Also, if you didnt unhook, someone else would.mist likely when the killer is gone. 

Try reading more then a few lines, this entire thing was based on there just being two survivors left in the game. And one survivor daring to leave the hatch camp, to get the second last guy off the hook.

But I understand you wanted to get that last jab in before the thread ends.

And again I don't actually play this way, but I support peoples right to play it.

Outland

@C4Garuda said:
Awwwww so me kicking you and denying the unhook isnt scummy enough for you, you scummy piece of scum? Scum it up like a real man, and go scum yourself!

If that mechanic was in the game, I'd support it. 100% and it would be a proper solution to this instead of removing my points for an unhook.

Sally55

@Outland said:

@C4Garuda said:
Awwwww so me kicking you and denying the unhook isnt scummy enough for you, you scummy piece of scum? Scum it up like a real man, and go scum yourself!

If that mechanic was in the game, I'd support it. 100% and it would be a proper solution to this instead of removing my points for an unhook.

Get bent. This community is better off without people like you.

TheHourMan

Killer kicks all 4 players and wins 

Dragonredking

They aren't preventing you to do anything, you'll just won't be rewarded for bad unhook anymore

ShrimpTwiggs

"The devs are taking away our freedom to play how we want!" Yet you're defending sandbagging, which puts the victim in a situation where they have no control at all. And stop with that 'solo play' defense. There's a difference between playing solo, and deliberately getting others killed. All because the devs don't want to reward terrible unhooks, doesn't mean you can't do them anyway. You just won't be rewarded for it.

Orion

@ShrimpTwiggs said:
"The devs are taking away our freedom to play how we want!" Yet you're defending sandbagging, which puts the victim in a situation where they have no control at all. And stop with that 'solo play' defense. There's a difference between playing solo, and deliberately getting others killed. All because the devs don't want to reward terrible unhooks, doesn't mean you can't do them anyway. You just won't be rewarded for it.

It's the same with all the "muh freedom" crowd. They just want the "freedom" to be ######### while profiting from it and without reprimand.

M2Fream

Sometimes I will hit the injured one and knock him down but commit to injure or down the farmer before I rehook him

Envees

@Runiver said:

@Outland said:
This game has always said that game play is up to the player. Do you work with the team and work at escaping. Or do you play more solo, hiding and allowing the others to do the work.

I do not have to out run the Killer, I just have to out run you applies. Sandbagging is a thing and if that's how you want to play that's your right.

Now after watching the latest Q&A, they say they are looking at punishing unsafe unhooks. This goes against the freedom of playing scummy. If its down to me and you and I want to unhook you so that hopefully you go down again quicker, and let the hatch spawn so I can get out that should be a option.

How many people have just waited while the second last guy struggles and dies so you can grab the hatch. Loads of us have.

Like real life the game is filled with lots of personality types, the work together types and the let the world burn just so long as I escape types. I do not think that survivors that are in it for themselves should be punished point wise for being "that guy".

When it comes down to it, if the game only let one person leave a match, we would all be cut-throat. Why do we need to punish people who don't wish to play "for the team"?

As a matter of fact, this is not the case anymore.
This game used to be 1v1v1v1 vs 1 killer. That's true, and that also explained why killers weren't THAT strong back then.
Now, with all the altruistic perks allowing more boldness, and the introduction of SWF, the game is turning into an 1v4 game, aka a TEAM game.

That's why killers need to be buffed furthermore to be able to match a team's strength, and that's why the "solo play" is bound to slowly disapear. (which is sad, honestly, because this was one of the best part of the game, but that's what you get for making the game to be a team game.)

The dev's really hamstrung themselves with this game. DbD is a 1 v 4 that gets reduced to a 1 v1 while in a chase but the dev;s have to maintain just enough killer strength so you only kill 2. If more than one surv gets involved in the 1 v1 its gets tricky. Talk about a balancing act. Killers cant be strong enough to kill all 4 in comfort. They cant make killing a walk in the park so it is this very mechanic that makes killers so weak at times.

Envees

@Orion said:

@Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.

I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

My personal freedom not to be farmed is being violated by how you play.
Your personal freedom to punch ends where my nose begins.

Then do not get in the ring with a boxer. It was your choice, remember.

Visionmaker

Envees said:

@Orion said:

@Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.

I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

My personal freedom not to be farmed is being violated by how you play.
Your personal freedom to punch ends where my nose begins.

Then do not get in the ring with a boxer. It was your choice, remember.

Which suggests we have any choice in the matter. If we had a functional rep and avoid function, it wouldn't a problem.

No one would want to play with a known farmer anyway. Actually, they'd be banned, so it wouldn't even be that much of a problem, would it?

TheHourMan

Well, I learned one thing from this thread. People won't be ######### and deliberately get eachother killed anywhere near as much if they aren't rewarded for it. So yes. Good job devs. Don't reward killing other survs when you aren't killer. These people are whining sooo much to defend their ability to be rewarded for bad behavior. 

Sally55

@TheHourMan said:
Well, I learned one thing from this thread. People won't be ######### and deliberately get eachother killed anywhere near as much if they aren't rewarded for it. So yes. Good job devs. Don't reward killing other survs when you aren't killer. These people are whining sooo much to defend their ability to be rewarded for bad behavior. 

This entire thread is just a joke lol. Supporting douchebaggery against fellow survivors is disgusting.

Orion

@Envees said:

@Orion said:

@Outland said:

@WhateverIGuess said:
Maybe.... because most people do it just to troll? Or when they have WGLF. Honestly, if you wanna play like this, it's your choice, but then don't be surprised if people do it to you. Or if non-sweaty killers camp you, which has 0.01% chance of happening because it's summer and every killer is sweaty.

I 100% support people doing it right back. That is my point here, my personal freedoms in how I play are now being removed.

I'm supposed to have the CHOICE to play for the team or for myself. Whether is scummy or not is 100% another topic. I think that the right to play greedy is an option that some people want to play. And as free thinking people we should be able to.

Having the devs police behaviour is ridiculous, where do we draw the line?

All you lemmings think that its ok if they remove freedoms just so long as you see it as justified. But what happens when they decide to police some action you love to do. Maybe down the road they decide that looping is goofy so instead of changing the game so that looping is not possible, they just say for every loop past the second one we remove 150 BPs.

There that should fix looping. Or at least make it so that it isn't profitable.

I know they would never do that, but this is exactly the thing I'm talking about they are removing a way of playing because it is unpopular. By punishing the points awarded.

Stop thinking about the specific thing being punished here, and look past it to the core message being sent.

We the DEVS are going to mold you into playing the way we think you should. This isn't cool, not in the current world, where we are supposed to be free thinking people.

My personal freedom not to be farmed is being violated by how you play.
Your personal freedom to punch ends where my nose begins.

Then do not get in the ring with a boxer. It was your choice, remember.

The proper analogy would be "don't have the misfortune of running into someone who's trying desperately to prove his manliness by attacking people who can't fight back", because I don't choose to be in a game with someone like OP.

Zanfer

@Outland said:
This game has always said that game play is up to the player. Do you work with the team and work at escaping. Or do you play more solo, hiding and allowing the others to do the work.

I do not have to out run the Killer, I just have to out run you applies. Sandbagging is a thing and if that's how you want to play that's your right.

Now after watching the latest Q&A, they say they are looking at punishing unsafe unhooks. This goes against the freedom of playing scummy. If its down to me and you and I want to unhook you so that hopefully you go down again quicker, and let the hatch spawn so I can get out that should be a option.

How many people have just waited while the second last guy struggles and dies so you can grab the hatch. Loads of us have.

Like real life the game is filled with lots of personality types, the work together types and the let the world burn just so long as I escape types. I do not think that survivors that are in it for themselves should be punished point wise for being "that guy".

When it comes down to it, if the game only let one person leave a match, we would all be cut-throat. Why do we need to punish people who don't wish to play "for the team"?

You don't have to play ######### to do well..