The Problem with Insidious, and some ideas to help fix it
introduction
Hey! Today, I have something that might peak everyone here... yes... today, we'll be talking about the perk Insidious and why it's in-general a "bad" perk that exists. No, this isn't a rant to change the perk... it's just an explanation as well as a concept that I want to throw out there.
I'd like everyone who reads this to actually give their opinion on the perk itself... your past experiences with it maybe? Or in-general some feedback you feel should be said... anything works.
But enough with the rambling before this turns into a 1 million Paragraph essay again... let's get into it!
Insidious... and why it promotes camping
Now, camping is debatable a "strategy" that a lot of Killers like to use when they're new or in the lower ranks. While you rarely see it in Purple and Red Ranks... it can still happen from time to time. Now, camping usually happens when a Killer "hates" a Survivor for looping them too long, because they're toxic to them, etc...
And while camping is yes, a "Strategy..." it's also an extension of what defines a Killers "skill." For one, a good Killer won't need to camp Survivors to kill them... they do that by regular means and fast downs as well, aka they cause what's called a "snowball effect" within the match and apply a lot of pressure against a team.
Usually when someone is being camped, they're most likely going to die due to the Killer having an insta-down power, NOED, etc... And while yes, perks like Borrowed Time counter camping... it can still get YOU yourself downed if the camper has NOED, chainsaw, etc...
Now here's where Insidious comes in. Most of the time, insidious is... well... used to camp Survivors! That's honestly all it's good for since that's what it seems to mainly be for... It reduces your Terror Radius to 0 and allows the Killer to be "hidden" until a Survivor approached the hooked Survivor. Than, they can either use their chainsaw, NOED, Haunted Grounds, whatever... and down the Survivor before they unhook them or literally right after... Than, the cycle continues.
It promotes this behavior (No pun intended) because that's what it's mainly only used for... and what it is practical with. Insidious has no other use, none. In a regular match you would never stand still unless... you were camping say a generator, an Exit Gate, a Survivor...
Like, that's all Insidious is for.
Now, here's why insidious isn't fun to face
Before anyone says it "But I haven't seen a LeatherFace insidious basement camp in awhile now! STOP CRYING" yes, they're quite rare to find these days...
Mostly because it's so boring that not even LeatherFace seems to want to be involved in it anymore... but also because Survivors have found counters to get around it, mainly when it was really common during its inception. You could use Kindred to have your teammates avoid it... or if you're in a SWFs with coms than you can just have them do generators and escape... Borrowed time helps with keeping both Survivors down... but not the unhooker... etc, etc, etc.
When you hear Insidious, you think LeatherFace. This is mainly because a basement build LeatherFace has literally no downsides when it comes to guaranteeing the kill. If you don't kill your original Survivor, you can just down the unhooker and kill them... than people will just keep throwing themselves to unhook Survivors until the Killer sees an opening and downs multiple Survivors... OR the Survivor just dies...
The issue here is... it isn't fun. Not for the Survivors... and I don't even know if the Killer enjoys it. They probably just hate Survivors so much that they want to torture themselves by waiting in a basement and chainsawing anyone who comes in... or doesn't... than the Survivor and the Killer sits there until the Survivor dies and the other 3 escape.
That's pretty boring if you ask me. And any Killer can use this build and honestly still down people that're unhooking the Survivor in the basement. Just grab them by surprise or hit them once than again after they've unhooked the Survivor... and if they don't have BT than you down the other Survivor and... yeah... you get the idea.
a suggestion to "better" insidious reputation and worth
By definition "Insidious" means to be "crafty" or "sly." This can define a person as well, someone who's sneaky or crafty or sly is an Insidious person. And while yes this fits with the perks power and meaning... the practical use it has outside of camping (Which like... 90% hate.) Is quite a terrible use of a perk and a perk slot.
Unless you're of course LeatherFace or someone with an insta-down power... you get the idea. It honestly should be changed to have a better use... maybe more people will use it if it was changed to something else? Who knows...
While it's hard to make another power for the perk and I can 100% understand that... it would greatly boost this perks reputation, and overall give it more use than say... LeatherFace in a basement.
Now, i'll give an idea below for a change to the perk... it's not perfect and it can of course be subject to change, interpretation, and overall... it could be bad or good depending on how you look at it.
some changes to the stealth mechanics of insidious
Because of popular opinion in the comments below, I've taken the liberty of changing the overhaul suggestions to these new buff/nerf suggestions below. I remove the overhaul suggestions since I've come to realize that having a overhaul of a perk isn't always the way to fix it.
some suggestions by chitenshi
@ChiTenshi had some good suggestions in the comments below, and I wanted to add them here. All credit goes to them of course, I just wanted to spread the ideas around.
- While in a Chase, you unlock your stealth ability. When a Survivor loses sight of you, your Terror Radius drops to 0 meters for X/Y/Z seconds
- While in a Chase, you Terror Radius decreases over time by 2/4/6 metres per second until it hits 0, you hit the Survivor or you interact with something
- While in a Chase, you can unlock your stealth ability. When a Survivor loses sight of you, your Terror Radius remains in the location you were last saw for X/Y/Z seconds
Now some suggestions by me to stay with the stealth mechanic
The suggestions above were kind of copies of pre-existing concepts, so why don't we work off of the stealth concept that exists already?
The first idea
- Unlocks the stealth ability. By standing still for 4/3/2 seconds, you reduce your Terror Radius to 0 meters and thus become stealthy until you move or act again. Between periods of 10/8/6 seconds, the perk will go into a cooldown state.
"Open your ears..."
This would give the perk a hard nerf, but it would overall counter-act the issue of basement and hook camping as a whole. This is debatable terrible, but that's for you guys to decide...
the second idea
- Unlocks the stealth ability. While in a chase, your Terror Radius will periodically drop to 0 meters for 2/4/6 seconds.
"Keep your eyes on me."
This kind of works off of ChiTenshi's 1st idea, but it only periodically activates and deactives during a chase. It gives it a sort of "mind-game" potential to it... the the seconds that each tier gives can be changed of course.
the third idea
- Unlocks the stealth ability. The Killers Terror Radius will periodically detach from the Killer for 5/10/15 seconds. When in proximity to a hooked Survivor, Insidious deactivates.
"So easily fooled..."
This will also be the main concept for the fourth idea, but I wanted to add in that last bit to deter from the main issue Insidious poses... It gives it a fresh concept, while also staying away from the main issue it brings.
the fourth idea
- Unlocks the stealth ability. By standing still for 4/3/2 seconds, you reduce your Terror Radius to 0 meters and thus become stealthy until you move or act again. When in 8 meters of a hooked Survivor, Insidious deactivates.
"Open your ears..."
Now this is a idea you might all debate is too much of a hard nerf... 10 meters isn't really that huge, and it's actually just about as big as Tier ll Myers with M&A... which in itself isn't huge either, but it can still be heard if you're close enough.
The 8 meters is to keep Killers out of the basement and standing right next to the Survivor... aka LF... and it also lets them stand around the area to give them a chance at least. So in theory you can still "camp the basement" but you won't be able to be IN the basement to do it.
tl;dr
Insidious promotes camping and tunneling... last time I heard, most people hate this. The perk is quite useless outside of camping... and Killers that use this perk to camp and tunnel is only promoting a boring game for Survivors and even the Killer in some cases.
I don't know anyone who enjoys sitting in a basement for a chainsaw kill as LeatherFace... unless like... you just hate Survivors that much and want to make their game as boring and miserable as possible?
So, I put some suggestions above the TL;DR for you guys to ponder in the comments below.
Comments
The chainsaws are good for directing survivors, but the issue stems from the map pressure in-general... since he has basic M1 Killer mobility and is limited like all M1 Killers are at loops.
That's one way to use it.
Least you're not camping in a basement with it ha ha.
I use insidious similar to the demogorgon guy. During phasing, you're not considered moving, so you lose TR while phasing. It allows to make sneak attacks / confuse survivors.
I didn't know that... interesting.
Why not make it token based and for each generator completed your terror radius is permanently reduced by X meters/%. If needed, an additional X meters/% when all generators are completed.
Very bad at the start but you start to shroud yourself and have a very little terror radius.
That seems too similar to Furtive Chase though...
I mean it could work but if we're talking originality than it's almost the same as Furtive Chase, except Furtive Chase relies on obsession hooks (Least it's supposed to...) while this Insidious suggestion relies on generators being done like Fire Up!
Makes the perk a non camping perk, furtive chase sucks and being similar to fire up doesnt seem bad for me. There are not those many generator token based perks and this one seems just right for it.
True, it does keep it off the campers to-do list.
Would love to see insidious changed. Its not very fun to play against and the camper killer lifestyle is about as toxic and unfun as it gets. I do like the ideas you thought of hopefully devs are reading too.
If a killer camps and you get killed by them as a result, the failure in skill isn't the killer, it's in you AND the killer, tunneling is the way to go, get them gone for good
Does insidious work while Myers stalks
I mean you're standing still so yeah. You don't need to move to stalk.
I see insidious to be kind of like head-on. From the killer's perspective, I hate that perk. It doesn't help the survivors much, and it's just a way to annoy the killer mostly. I have been chasing a survivor and been stunned by another survivor using head on, then a I turn to chase him and another survivor in an adjacent locker stuns me. Annoying, but I don't want that fun removed from the game, even though it's embarrassing as killer.
Is insidious good when playing compettiively? No. But, the killer isn't required to play competitively. Maybe he wants to pretend he's the killer and stalking someone with a killer that cna't stalk. Insidious provides that opportunity. Stop trying to make the game all about survivors having fun.
I'm not trying to make the game all about Survivors having fun? That's kind of counter intuitive since I main Killer.
The point of this change is to focus on why Insidious promotes camping... which last I checked nobody liked... same with tunneling which goes hand to hand with camping. The perk allows for a malicious play style to happen as a result, and unless you like sitting in a basement staring at a Survivor who's also not having fun... than idk what's fun I guess.