PapaQuintus
PapaQuintus
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- PapaQuintus
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@rutterspax said:
We need to look at why slugging is currently predominant.
Let's see uhm.. right. Dead Hard, Resurgence, Shoulder the Burden, Decisive Strike, Deliverance, Off the Record, hook timer increased from 60 secs to 70 seconds, basekit Endurance and Haste after unhook which they also increased the timer and strength (Endurance used to be 10 secs now 15 secs and Haste is increased from 7% to 10%), anti-camp, flashbangs, flashlight saves, time to take to pick up and move to a hook, Saboteur/toolbox, injured survivor running to upright pallet to get downed there for a pallet save, bodyblocking hook, Breakdown, We'll Make It, Babysitter, etc.
I wonder why killers slug.
You and I both know that people who bring slugging builds, and slug from the get-go without hooking, are not doing it to play optimally…
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Unfortunately things are heading in the wrong path. I've always blamed solo queue being miserable as the reason why things are getting worse. While BHVR focuses on salty, petty, and angry killers and survivors that shout at eachother for bringing meta perks, no'one talks about why solo queue is so miserable and unfun. I used to only play survivor, but lately for the past 1 and a half month i've been playing mostly killer, which is the only way to enjoy this game. Maybe if BHVR focused on the main playerbase (Solo queue), and actually gave them some information (eg. let survivors see eachothers perks, and anti-camp progress, and overall more information) it would be easier to balance things out, and make gameplay improvements.
Ofc this is not going to fix the issue of people giving up, but then again, matchmaking is an absolute joke, and if you have thousands of hours in the game, and a lot of experience, you'll be paired up with people who plays as if they just installed the game. Solo queue is a massive joke, and i find it hilarious how people are complaining about everything other than addressing solo queue. I'll stick to playing killer until they do something about the solo queue experience.
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I have no clue why they haven't made it possible for survivors to see eachothers anti face camp progress.. Like, how are survivors supposed to know if a teammate is being proxy camped? They should add that feature, and also let survivors see eachothers perks. That way, it brings solo queue more in line with SWF's, without giving SWF's any benefit. I don't understand why solo queue players are being neglected this much. Yes, SWF's are annoying and broken, which is why we need to give solo queue survivors features that ONLY benefits solos. But for some reason, it feels like BHVR are balancing the game between SWF's and killers who face these guys.
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No, guranteed hits should never be a thing in this game.
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@Junylar said:
This is the pure example of a typical complaint about "why survivors started throwing and leaving so much". When you know exactly what people hate and find obnoxious, pick the exact hated and obnoxious build just to mine some salt and make people quit, survivors actually quit, and then a bit later you create a thread about "survivors suddenly started leaving too much, surely it's because of their entitlement, I guess we must increase the punishment!"
It's not a complaint lmao. I thought it was funny because i was playing with bots the whole game, which is why i posted it in here. No need to be aggressive :P
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Gonna get flack for saying this, but the community mostly hates SM. Play a different killer or accept this is probably how it will be most of the time.
I wasn't trying to complain or anything, just thought it was hilarious, and wanted to share it.
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@xltechno said:
....No, wouldn't it be better to return to sanity from Madness 3? That's no problem. Also, the Doctor doesn't show much strength in elementary school. If the survivor looks into the hallway and sees the doctor running towards him, all he has to do is run straight down the hallway. That alone can waste a lot of the killer's time.
You are right sir, you changed my perception of life and DBD. Now i'm a spectator main. Thanks
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@Uxoxe said:
Here's a good reason, you solution does not do anything to fix someone giving up on hook.
Survivors are giving up on hook because the game isn't fun for them.
Skull Merchants, Knights, Sadakos, Nurses, Blights and Weskers are not fun for most solo-queue survivors. SWFs can handle those killers but most solo-queue players cannot.
- Also, Skull Merchant, Knight and Sadako are flat out unfun for survivors to go against
- 3-gen is unfun, see the 1st two killers above and any other killer that can 3-gen with the right perks.
- Tunneling at gen 5 is unfun
- Face-camping at gen 5 is unfun
Just because the game is unfun for survivors, doesn't mean my solution does not "fix someone giving up on hook", and it clearly DOES prevent people from giving up on hook, since you have to wait till a certain point to be able to attempt escape.
If the game is not fun for you, then go ahead and DC. The same goes for every other online videogame, where you can either play the game out, or Disconnect and get a penalty. Luckily for you, the penalty received in Dead by Daylight, is a tiny fraction, compared to every other videogame, like CS:GO for example.
We are not talking about tunnelling, camping, 3-genning right now, even though i agree heavily that BHVR are extremely slow at doing something about it (My theory is that they won't do big changes, but rather small patches concerning these issues, over a long period of time, so that they don't anger / trigger all the killer mains out there, that wants easy games).
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@Phantom_ said:
I feel like it comes in waves of it being fun and very unfun on either side. I stopped playing SoloQ, because of the amount of DC's, or being left to die on 1st hook, after running the killer for 2 gens, so yea, fun :)
As killer, I almost never struggled to get at least a 3K, and would usually let the 4th survivor get hatch or open the gate, but nowadays, all I'm countering as killer are either:
- 2 survivors with toolboxes with BNPs AND Prove Thyself, and the other 2 bringing 2 medkits and still having CoH.
- Or 2 survivors with medkits and CoH and 2 flashlights with Prove Thyself.
And if it's not CoH, it's Adrenaline with medkits and Syringe, and OTR.
I'm not complaining about the perks by themselves. Going against those builds +/-2 games in a row is fine, but if every lobby you're facing brings that? Then yea, you're kinda forced to bring gen-slowdowns, and might have to tunnel. If you're a killer that needs to set up a bit at the beginning of the game.. yea good luck with 2 PtS and toolboxes.
I get what you're saying 100%. But for people who are already at Iridescent 1, and don't need to sweat anymore to reach a certain rank, why are they still going full tryhard. This is for both survivor and killer, if you had the worst match ever, (no escapes for any survivors, or no kills as killer), you won't lose any pips, because you're already at Iridescent 1. So, why not just have fun, instead of having the same competetive mind, since there is nothing greater to achieve at that point.
And i agree 100% that medkits, and healing is annoying as hell. I never play with items in my games, but whenever i do, it's just boring. If i bring a green medkit with 16 extra charges, and 15% healing bonus, i win my matches a lot more, but i find it extremely boring having the "I gotta win" mindset, and find it a lot more fun when you have to manneuver around the map while injured, finding out how to unhook a survivor without being spotted, and play it smartly, rather than healing up instantly in 5 seconds and having no problems. Even though i play survivor mostly, i think perks like CoH and self-care should be removed entirely from the game, since they are a huge waste of time for solo players, but extremely effective on SWF's. And green medkits should definitely get nerfed aswell.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283944#Comment_3283944
You didn't answer the question: what is the broken mechanic?
You're one of those guys i see. Well, i'm just gonna leave it here. Enjoy abusing broken aspects in this game, because you enjoy getting easy matches against solo queue teams, where 1 could have thousands of hours, and the rest have under 20 hours. As long as killer mains can complain about everything, BHVR will just make it easier for them.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283927#Comment_3283927
So not only did the Deathslinger get 8 hits to build up STBFL, but they were also able to successfully use their power to land a follow up attack on you. You are literally describing a scenario that only exists if the killer is good.
Yes, all you have to do is gather enough stacks (8) which is not the hardest thing in the world to do trust me. Then you just facecamp the hooked survivor, if someone comes for the rescue, you keep hitting them because the recovery time gives you so much windows to follow it up again on the same survivor unhooking, or if another survivor comes aswell for the unhook. Whenever i play killer, and start losing, i just facecamp the survivor, and get free downs and kills with STBFL, which is what i am talking about. I don't blame the killers for facecamping, but it sure as hell is highly unskilled. Stop pretending like it is skilled, when it clearly is not. And yes, i just admitted that i have done this aswell, but i never claimed that i was skilled for abusing this mechanic.
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356912/killers-that-use-the-hook-as-the-watering-hole
There just so much more context necessary to do analysis here. Mainly how you're defining camping and/or tunneling, and how the survs are contributing or not to it.
Like if a team goes for quick saves and doesn't give the killer an opportunity to leave and the killer hangs around, that's poor surv play, and not really camping.
A recent example I can think of was a game I played on Groaning Storehouse, where I had just hooked a surv in the basement (in the main building). I came up the stairs, reloaded (Huntress), and was going to leave when I saw another surv through the window. I wound up a hatchet, but heard another surv behind me, just outside the door. So three of the four were within 10-15 meters of me. The first surv kept waving me to chase, but why would I have?
I never left the immediate vicinity of the storehouse, because they didn't either. Three ended up dead, another DCed, and I got spammed with friend requests (I have friends only messaging set), and there was a lot of teabagging. They were clearly big mad.
In a situation like that you could say I proxy camped, but who played with lower skill there? One could say I didn't deserve the 4K (it was fairly easy), but I'd say they sure af didn't deserve an escape. They played that terribly.
This is just one example of countless similar situations I've seen as a killer, surv, or spectator where a surv team was up in arms over the tactics of the killer, when in large part they (the survs) dictated those tactics.
Now a case where you have a Bubba facecamping their first hook is something different for sure, and low skill, but if they rest of the team just yeets themselves into the meat grinder, how much better were they, really?
Tunneling tends to be more clear cut, but also not totally so.
Point is, it's most often not there is a lot of grey area when it comes to these things, and just expecting the killer to "move on" in every situation is really myopic.
My point is, the killer can facecamp the survivor with STBFL, and deny unhooks from happening. Let's say two survivors come for the unhook. You hit one of them, (they run away) and the second survivor attempts to unhook, but they can't, because the recovery time from STBFL allows you to hit them aswell, without them getting the unhook.
@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283927#Comment_3283927
Humor me: and exactly which mechanic do you believe is broken?
Try getting max stacks with STBFL on Deathslinger, and facecamp the survivor. Go on, please do this experiment for yourself. As soon as you get 8 stacks of STBFL, just facecamp them, and deny anyone from unhooking them. If they somehow manage to get an unhook (Where i assume they are all now injured, and some might be on the ground, just immediately shoot the unhooked survivor with Deathslinger's weapon, and wait till the Endurance runs out, and down them.
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@Crowman said:
The killer uses a tactic and outplays the survivor.
Survivors: "That was unskilled"
Yet you still lost to the "unskilled" killer.
Yea totally skilled.. Get max stacks with STBFL on Deathslinger, and camp the hook. If the unhooked survivor get's unhooked, you hit them with your weapon, get a small cooldown, and immediately use your gun to shoot them... Totally a way to play around. It's called abusing broken mechanics in the game, and BHVR do not give a #########, because killer mains have the same mentality as truetalent lmao
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Update:
Both Prestige lvl 69 characters were hacking, and held the game hostage for 40 mins :P
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@RatbasterdJr said:
We’ve all seen the countless threads on “nurse is so broken and overpowered”.
Truth is, she’s not. While yes, going against somebody who has mastered nurse is quite annoying, I believe it is her addons that need a change, particularly the range addons and the recharge addons.
I see a lot of comments claiming anybody can hop on nurse and dominate, and that simply isn’t true. I’ve put a lot of hours into killer, and my first couple days of trying nurse were miserable. A nurse that doesn’t know how to play nurse is by far the EASIEST killer to bully, and that’s a fact. People play nurse for the first time, and don’t play her again, leaving the remainder of the nurse population as the players that have put the time in to get good at her power. Combine this with dual range or recharge and it’s nasty. This is why I believe the addons are the issue, not the base kit.
Nurse among all killers, has the lowest kill rate for a reason. Just something to think about. My honest opinion, welcome to debate! (Also many survivors have no idea how to counter nurse)
Nurse has to be the most un-rewarding killer in the game. I've spent maybe several hours practicing her, and it's really easy to get a catch of how her power works. Every game i win at 3-4 gens (rarely 5 gens), and it just doesn't feel very good winning with her. Her addons are definitely nasty, but her basekit is also really strong. I think her blink recharging is a little too fast, and lunging should get reduced, because survivors literally have no room to dodge her hits, unless it's a really new nurse player panicking. I have seen so many streamers (killer mains) only now getting annoyed and complaining about nurse, ever since they started playing a lot more survivor, because of the killer queue times.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106204#Comment_3106204
No one's trying to justify anything, I quite literally made a post about changes for game health and the first thing on it was a solution to camping. Read that post if you want my solution.
You don't understand because you aren't an experienced killer. Killers can only win if they manage their hook states so that at least one person is on the hook at all times. If survivors can literally guarantee an unhook in the way I'm describing, you will get the first hit of your next chase after the hooked survivor has already been unhooked. No one said anything about going for the unhooker. If two survivors are there, and far enough away that you have to walk over to them to chase or just camp, it's a guaranteed win for the survivors if the hook timer stops.
Picture this is you can: You hook a survivor, and two survivors are in your line of sight on both sides of the hook, about 12 meters or so away. It'll take around three seconds for either survivor to get to the hook, and it'll take you around four to five seconds to catch up to one of them and hit them. So once you get your first hit, that survivor has been unhooked and now there's three survivors on gens instead of two max. Once you get that down, which should take around 20 seconds assuming an equal skill level and an antiloop killer, there is 60 seconds of gen progress instead of 40. 2/3 of a gen, PER CHASE.
If you had played when they tested pausing hook timers, you'd realize how abusable that is. I can't blame you for not getting it if you weren't playing back then. Take my word for it though, any camping solution that doesn't require at least two survivors to be doing gens the entire time it's active is abusable.
But let's assume that there are 2 survivors at the hook. 1 is on the hook, while there are 2 survivors trying to manage an unhook. At best, the 4th survivor is the only one doing a gen, while there are 3 survivors not doing gens. With the current system, 3 people could sit on gens, waiting until the hooked survivor is just about to go 2nd state, so that they manage to do a lot of gen progress, and at best no hook trading. If there was one person going for the unhook, and gets hook traded, there were still 2 other survivors doing gens, so i'm positive it's the same outcome with or without the hook timer pause. What do you think.
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@Pulsar said:
I'm sorry but no DC penalty is going to stop me when we've gotten two meta Nurse's, a facecamping Bubba, a meta Blight and then a facecamping Bubba.
All a penalty is doing is helping my mental sanity. Make it a year so I physically can't play the game until it's better.
Omega nurse, facecamping bubbas and meta blights already existed before this patch, and is not the reason for the surge of disconnects by survivors.
@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105541#Comment_3105541
Absolutely not. Maybe you aren't a very good killer, because if you were, you'd know that getting hooks at the right time matters. If survivors got a free unhook every time before you could down another person, the ONLY chance you'd have at living is slugging the entire team. Would you rather get camped or slugged to death for abusing a bullshit mechanic?
If there's going to be something to combat camping, it needs to be impossible to abuse. Look at my first post on here to find what I suggested. As someone who played during that experiment, pausing the hook timers won't ever work.
With all due respect, i understood absolutely nothing of what you just said. It seems like you are trying to justify easy hooks / kills? If you actually see another survivor from a distance, and you leave the hook so that the hooked survivor gets rescued by another survivor, why do you also have to go for the unhooker and not the other survivor you saw from a distance? Are you scared that they might potentially loop you for 1-2 minutes? As if the unhooker couldn't do the same. Please be more specific, or come with your own idea on how to reduce camping, i would actually like to know other alternatives.
@ad19970 said:
I definitely agree with the issue of camping and tunneling. It's a serious problem that should have also gotten addressed in this latest patch.
I would throw in slowdown perks that are too strong currently as well. Thana and Pentimento in particular just have way too high values at the moment, now that gens take 90 seconds. Pentimento alone increases gen times to 128 seconds. I mean, what the hell?
Definitely. I've played Plague with Thana, Plaything, Pentimento & Corrupt Intervention, and the survivors had an extremely tough time, getting no more than 2-3 gens done the whole match.
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@Biscuits said:
What will increasing the DC timer do when people can just leave the game on first hook? I think we can accept that people will DC no matter what you do, there is little you can do to stop players from giving up. Addressing some of the outliers that are making playing survivor less fun would go much further than just increasing DC penalties.
Increase the survivor experience by giving SoloQ players some form of communication and information.
Rather than punishing killers for camping and tunneling, studies in psychology show that incentives work much better than punishments. Give killers a reason to go for each unique survivor in the game, rather than trying to make it increasingly more difficult to get one person out of the game.
Perks should be looked at from each killers perspective, what I mean by this is that each perk should be adjusted to make sure it doesn't make that killer OP. Starstruck on nurse is extremely oppressive, but on most other killers it is a relatively balanced perk. If you were to nerf the perk globally to make it fair for nurse, it would likely see no play ever again. But, if you simply tweak it for nurse the perk will remain fair for all killers. I see similar issues with thana on plague and legion, while the perk is fair on just about every other killer it remains oppressive for the aforementioned killers.
Some might also say that save the best for last is also something that should be tweaked for each killer (like demo or pig). While there is a decent argument for this, I think STBFL is just tuned too high right now baseline, and I think the perk should lose at least 10% action speed.
I think the last patch contained a lot of good nuggets to put the game in a better spot but it fell short on a lot of things it tried to deliver. And by trying to buff kill rates without also buffing soloQ survivors who were already the most worse off player, it ended up sending a lot of people over the deep end.
I agree with your first point about people dying on first hook. Maybe give the survivors just 1 chance to unhook themselves 5-10 seconds before second state, with a 10% success rate.
Also i think kindred should be basekit, since it in my opinion is the best perk to bring, when playing solo queue.
Regarding the tunneling and camping, with my idea, it still incentivises killers to leave the hook.
STBFL is definitely a super strong perk at the moment, giving the survivors a hard time in chase, and especially when hook trading.
@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105497#Comment_3105497
Two survivors standing within your line of sight after you hook. No chase starts, you either stay there forever or they get a free unhook. Pausing the hook was tested before and that's exactly what happened.
Well if there are survivors within your line of sight, you are supposed to go for them, and not stand at the hook. And it doesn't matter if they get a "free unhook". Hook trading shouldn't be a thing, it's just extremely lazy, giving the killers no motivation to actually work towards getting a hook on another survivor.
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@Brimp said:
You can walk around the hook and immediately negate that hook camping idea since you technically arent in chase until the killer is within a short range of you or they hit you... And you lose chase extremely quick if they're not looking at you and losing distance.
That shouldn't matter. If you're walking around the hook, the killer can just catch up to you easily and get a hit?
@Bardon said:
Why did you make the same thread twice?
I accidentally posted twice. I already informed the staff to delete the other post for me.
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Imagine being a killer main, and giving ideas on why Solo Q is fine lmao.. All killer mains complained about survivors, so this patch happened. Now that suvivors are voicing their opinion, killer mains are immediately here to tell US why we shouldn't complain. If you got any issues with your killer gameplay, then go ahead and post about it. But you can't come here and tell solo survivors why they're in the wrong, when you have little experience about it.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336717/soloq-is-destroyed
No, soloQ is still pretty viable, you just need to play consistently good enough not to get thrown together with the lambs who suicide on hook or can't loop.
BTW, the thing with Proof Thyself is becoming the new meta. Its also encouraging survivors to play together instead of quickly slamming 3 different gens. I guess that was partially intended.
So how does a solo squad play together if they are camped / tunneled out of the game? Any ideas? Oh, let's all go and take bodyblock hits, so the killer gets free hits, the gens are never worked on, and eventually the tunneled person dies at some point. I would really like to know your strategy.
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Decisive Strike is absolutely useless now, and a waste of a perk slot.
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Yup, i'm done playing survivor for now, and switched to killer instead. If i want to win the game and get an easy 4k, i'll just tunnel or camp a survivor with save the best for last, enduring and spirit fury. So dumb that if you lose 2 gens, and decide to tunnel and camp you get rewarded for it.. Hopefully BHVR decides to do something, and stop being scared of killer mains.
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I feel like Solo Queue is mostly not fine, like 70% of the games. But most of the time it is because of the lack of information that you have. I never understood why Kindred wasn't basekit. It is one of the strongest, if not the best surivor perk when it comes to Solo queue. I would rather prefer Kindred basekit over BT or any other perk. Secondly, it's way easier to tunnel survivors out of the game, since BT is a basekit feature for 5 seconds, so people rarely run BT or DS. All the killer has to do, is wait 5 seconds. I've played a lot of killer over the last few days, and hardly see any Decisive Strikes in my games. All BHVR has to do, is give solo survivors much more information, which SWF cannot benefit from (Since they already have that information). Also, with this new patch it is way easier to win as killer in general, especially if you decide to tunnel someone out of the game, or camp them.