CyanideCandy
CyanideCandy
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- CyanideCandy
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The spirit. You know why.
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@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@FireHazard said:
Don't you think if a killers getting 4k every match (for example) and still uses post-gen perks to make sure the team dies is not overkill? Or to the very least makes them look like an ass?It is overkill but they have no way to know before hand. Some games go super fast and NOED is almost necessary, other games it's not needed but procs anyway. I always feel bad for the groups where 1 or 2 of them barely make it to end game, but that's offset by the groups that blaze through gens and now I kind of need it to keep pressure.
If you need the pressure then use it. If you for example play fine without it than clearly you don't need it.
There's a difference between needing something and not needing something, but I guess that points never looked on.
Kind of like how you keep overlooking the fact that you have no real way of 100% guaranteed knowing exactly what motivated a killer to use no-ed? Or how either way, need it or not, there's nothing inherently toxic about using the perk? Your entire argument is based on your assumption and you're using it to slap the toxic label on someone else and have twice now encouraged people to treat each-other badly over the perk.
You make it sound like I just call out every NOED user, perhaps I should of added that I know when they're intentionally being toxic when they display it post game.
You can also tell they're being toxic from how they play, if you're being demolished by then do they really need the perk?
If they display toxicity in the post-game chat, you can report them.
How can they know, in advance, that you're a lot worse at the game than they are? Or do you expect them to swap out perks mid-game?
Since when does that make me for example a lot worse at the game than they are? If anything it shows they're an ass by snuffing out any hope of survival in their match. And it strengthens the point if they also show this toxicity in post-game chat or literally in game...
This has nothing to do with my skill vs theirs, it has to do with their closed mind approach to how a match goes in their eyes. But I guess its OK it just demolish an entire team without a second thought while assuming you're good. This goes for people who out right display this, NOT newbies who need the perk or what have you. I still don't know why you two miss this point.
Your example was about you being demolished. You don't get demolished unless you're significantly worse than the guy you're facing. So, how's the guy you're facing supposed to know, in advance, that he's gonna demolish you?
Do you understand the definition of an example? Its a scenario, I didn't imply it was a reality. Not everything I say is referring to me... Not sure where this is coming from.
The point still stands: How is the killer supposed to know, in advance, that they're gonna demolish the survivors?
They don't? But what I pointed as an example is just that... AN EXAMPLE, is it possible? MAYBE... Is it common? No.
Your argument is that it's toxic to use NOED when you demolish the survivors, since you didn't need it to win, yet you also acknowledge that the killer would need the power of foresight or time travel to know if they were going to need NOED or not. Do you not see the problem with this line of thought?
So you're saying because of the possibility that their match might possible not go as I say, and turn out to be horrible, makes my point null?
That and the fact that you're not a telepath and don't automatically know someone's motivation for using a perk.
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@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?
So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an [BAD WORD] to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.
You'd be breaking the rules, so no. I should've known I should've added "as long as they don't break the rules" to every single point, just so you couldn't pretend you didn't read it.
No I read it, what you're clearly saying is if I wanted to I can be a knob to everyone I come across and just because I bought the game that will justify what i'm doing. The same can be said to people who know they don't need NOED but use it anyways despite it being obvious in the match that they don't.
I know that point flys past most your heads, but that's what the rants implying here. Idc if you're a rank 20 using it, or if you're a Freddy who uses it, or what have you. I care only when its on killers that DON'T need it but still have it on them because the killer knows it makes the survivors angry.
Yeah but the rules posted by the devs say you can't be an absolutely toxic douche to everyone without consequence. Meaning being toxic is breaking the rules, that's why most toxic actions are listed when you click the little thumbsup/down button at the end of the match in the categories. Using a specific perk isn't listed in those, is it?
Using No-ed is not inherently a toxic action, regardless of which killer they're playing or why they do it. Period. You just think it is because you don't like it.No, I think its bad in the hands of people that want to be douches with it. If you have issues with pressure and or overall playing the game go ahead and use it. That means you NEED it to get better without it, its like training wheels on a bike, eventually we all don't need them anymore and ride the bike ourselves.
And no, specific perks are not listed in it. Does that really matter though when the person clearly knows it'll cause reactions when they use it though? And will outright troll because of it?
Correlation is not causation. Because some toxic killers you've met used no-ed doesn't mean the default motivation for using no-ed it to be toxic. They don't have anything to do with each-other.
I never said the default motivation for using NOED is to be toxic... I said its clear that people who use NOED and are toxic (Usually by displaying it in post chat or in-game) SHOULD be called out for it. I'm sorry some of use can't be good little boys and just sit there and take it?
Obviously you're not reading what i'm saying...
You keep saying that, but I'm starting to think YOU aren't reading what you're typing.
Clearly I do if I keep pointing it out to you several times, do I need to continue this till you understand what i'm saying?
How about you go back and read your initial post (Which is still quoted in my first comment on page 1) AND the edited version and show me where you say anything about killers actually behaving in a toxic way. Also worth a note because it's bugging me now, "Noob" does not mean "Intentionally toxic player". It means new or inexperienced player. Words, even slang, have meanings. If you want to call someone something at least don't make up your own definitions, it just makes things way less clear for no reason.
I can't rewrite the title to say "If you use NOED and are toxic than you're an [BAD WORD]" since BHVR likes to censor bad words. So that's the best thing I could come up with. I can say you're a jerk if you want it to sound more PG-13 for the kiddies.
Does douche get censored? How about jerk? Fool, idiot, halfwit, simpleton, blockhead, buffoon, dolt, dunce ignoramus, moron, #########, dullard, cretin, simpleton, clod?
(Apparently one of them did. Probably the least rude on one here, funny enough.)- Thought of some more. Donkey, Ding-dong, pinhead, fathead, knob(which was said earlier), git, and dipstick.
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@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?
So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an [BAD WORD] to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.
You'd be breaking the rules, so no. I should've known I should've added "as long as they don't break the rules" to every single point, just so you couldn't pretend you didn't read it.
No I read it, what you're clearly saying is if I wanted to I can be a knob to everyone I come across and just because I bought the game that will justify what i'm doing. The same can be said to people who know they don't need NOED but use it anyways despite it being obvious in the match that they don't.
I know that point flys past most your heads, but that's what the rants implying here. Idc if you're a rank 20 using it, or if you're a Freddy who uses it, or what have you. I care only when its on killers that DON'T need it but still have it on them because the killer knows it makes the survivors angry.
Yeah but the rules posted by the devs say you can't be an absolutely toxic douche to everyone without consequence. Meaning being toxic is breaking the rules, that's why most toxic actions are listed when you click the little thumbsup/down button at the end of the match in the categories. Using a specific perk isn't listed in those, is it?
Using No-ed is not inherently a toxic action, regardless of which killer they're playing or why they do it. Period. You just think it is because you don't like it.No, I think its bad in the hands of people that want to be douches with it. If you have issues with pressure and or overall playing the game go ahead and use it. That means you NEED it to get better without it, its like training wheels on a bike, eventually we all don't need them anymore and ride the bike ourselves.
And no, specific perks are not listed in it. Does that really matter though when the person clearly knows it'll cause reactions when they use it though? And will outright troll because of it?
Correlation is not causation. Because some toxic killers you've met used no-ed doesn't mean the default motivation for using no-ed it to be toxic. They don't have anything to do with each-other.
I never said the default motivation for using NOED is to be toxic... I said its clear that people who use NOED and are toxic (Usually by displaying it in post chat or in-game) SHOULD be called out for it. I'm sorry some of use can't be good little boys and just sit there and take it?
Obviously you're not reading what i'm saying...
You keep saying that, but I'm starting to think YOU aren't reading what you're typing.
Clearly I do if I keep pointing it out to you several times, do I need to continue this till you understand what i'm saying?
How about you go back and read your initial post (Which is still quoted in my first comment on page 1) AND the edited version and show me where you say anything about killers actually behaving in a toxic way. Also worth a note because it's bugging me now, "Noob" does not mean "Intentionally toxic player". It means new or inexperienced player. Words, even slang, have meanings. If you want to call someone something at least don't make up your own definitions, it just makes things way less clear for no reason.
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@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?
So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an [BAD WORD] to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.
You'd be breaking the rules, so no. I should've known I should've added "as long as they don't break the rules" to every single point, just so you couldn't pretend you didn't read it.
No I read it, what you're clearly saying is if I wanted to I can be a knob to everyone I come across and just because I bought the game that will justify what i'm doing. The same can be said to people who know they don't need NOED but use it anyways despite it being obvious in the match that they don't.
I know that point flys past most your heads, but that's what the rants implying here. Idc if you're a rank 20 using it, or if you're a Freddy who uses it, or what have you. I care only when its on killers that DON'T need it but still have it on them because the killer knows it makes the survivors angry.
Yeah but the rules posted by the devs say you can't be an absolutely toxic douche to everyone without consequence. Meaning being toxic is breaking the rules, that's why most toxic actions are listed when you click the little thumbsup/down button at the end of the match in the categories. Using a specific perk isn't listed in those, is it?
Using No-ed is not inherently a toxic action, regardless of which killer they're playing or why they do it. Period. You just think it is because you don't like it.No, I think its bad in the hands of people that want to be douches with it. If you have issues with pressure and or overall playing the game go ahead and use it. That means you NEED it to get better without it, its like training wheels on a bike, eventually we all don't need them anymore and ride the bike ourselves.
And no, specific perks are not listed in it. Does that really matter though when the person clearly knows it'll cause reactions when they use it though? And will outright troll because of it?
Correlation is not causation. Because some toxic killers you've met used no-ed doesn't mean the default motivation for using no-ed it to be toxic. They don't have anything to do with each-other.
I never said the default motivation for using NOED is to be toxic... I said its clear that people who use NOED and are toxic (Usually by displaying it in post chat or in-game) SHOULD be called out for it. I'm sorry some of use can't be good little boys and just sit there and take it?
Obviously you're not reading what i'm saying...
You keep saying that, but I'm starting to think YOU aren't reading what you're typing.
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@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@FireHazard said:
Don't you think if a killers getting 4k every match (for example) and still uses post-gen perks to make sure the team dies is not overkill? Or to the very least makes them look like an ass?It is overkill but they have no way to know before hand. Some games go super fast and NOED is almost necessary, other games it's not needed but procs anyway. I always feel bad for the groups where 1 or 2 of them barely make it to end game, but that's offset by the groups that blaze through gens and now I kind of need it to keep pressure.
If you need the pressure then use it. If you for example play fine without it than clearly you don't need it.
There's a difference between needing something and not needing something, but I guess that points never looked on.
Kind of like how you keep overlooking the fact that you have no real way of 100% guaranteed knowing exactly what motivated a killer to use no-ed? Or how either way, need it or not, there's nothing inherently toxic about using the perk? Your entire argument is based on your assumption and you're using it to slap the toxic label on someone else and have twice now encouraged people to treat each-other badly over the perk.
You make it sound like I just call out every NOED user, perhaps I should of added that I know when they're intentionally being toxic when they display it post game.
You can also tell they're being toxic from how they play, if you're being demolished by then do they really need the perk?
I never said you call out every no-ed user. I said you don't make any real distinction. You have never mentioned their behavior, only described them in vague, non-specific terms. You said before that this killer or that killer with this build and that build should never use the perk. You said it was okay under these circumstances, but not those ones, and you've never admitted to the fact that your opinion is entirely subjective and regardless of your experience, does NOT justify treating someone else like crap. You don't fight fire with gasoline, you use water. Report them when they're being legitimately toxic, don't tell people to treat them badly.
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@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?
So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an [BAD WORD] to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.
You'd be breaking the rules, so no. I should've known I should've added "as long as they don't break the rules" to every single point, just so you couldn't pretend you didn't read it.
No I read it, what you're clearly saying is if I wanted to I can be a knob to everyone I come across and just because I bought the game that will justify what i'm doing. The same can be said to people who know they don't need NOED but use it anyways despite it being obvious in the match that they don't.
I know that point flys past most your heads, but that's what the rants implying here. Idc if you're a rank 20 using it, or if you're a Freddy who uses it, or what have you. I care only when its on killers that DON'T need it but still have it on them because the killer knows it makes the survivors angry.
Yeah but the rules posted by the devs say you can't be an absolutely toxic douche to everyone without consequence. Meaning being toxic is breaking the rules, that's why most toxic actions are listed when you click the little thumbsup/down button at the end of the match in the categories. Using a specific perk isn't listed in those, is it?
Using No-ed is not inherently a toxic action, regardless of which killer they're playing or why they do it. Period. You just think it is because you don't like it.No, I think its bad in the hands of people that want to be douches with it. If you have issues with pressure and or overall playing the game go ahead and use it. That means you NEED it to get better without it, its like training wheels on a bike, eventually we all don't need them anymore and ride the bike ourselves.
And no, specific perks are not listed in it. Does that really matter though when the person clearly knows it'll cause reactions when they use it though? And will outright troll because of it?
Correlation is not causation. Because some toxic killers you've met used no-ed doesn't mean the default motivation for using no-ed it to be toxic. They don't have anything to do with each-other.
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@FireHazard said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@FireHazard said:
Don't you think if a killers getting 4k every match (for example) and still uses post-gen perks to make sure the team dies is not overkill? Or to the very least makes them look like an ass?It is overkill but they have no way to know before hand. Some games go super fast and NOED is almost necessary, other games it's not needed but procs anyway. I always feel bad for the groups where 1 or 2 of them barely make it to end game, but that's offset by the groups that blaze through gens and now I kind of need it to keep pressure.
If you need the pressure then use it. If you for example play fine without it than clearly you don't need it.
There's a difference between needing something and not needing something, but I guess that points never looked on.
Kind of like how you keep overlooking the fact that you have no real way of 100% guaranteed knowing exactly what motivated a killer to use no-ed? Or how either way, need it or not, there's nothing inherently toxic about using the perk? Your entire argument is based on your assumption and you're using it to slap the toxic label on someone else and have twice now encouraged people to treat each-other badly over the perk.
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@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?
So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an [BAD WORD] to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.
You'd be breaking the rules, so no. I should've known I should've added "as long as they don't break the rules" to every single point, just so you couldn't pretend you didn't read it.
No I read it, what you're clearly saying is if I wanted to I can be a knob to everyone I come across and just because I bought the game that will justify what i'm doing. The same can be said to people who know they don't need NOED but use it anyways despite it being obvious in the match that they don't.
I know that point flys past most your heads, but that's what the rants implying here. Idc if you're a rank 20 using it, or if you're a Freddy who uses it, or what have you. I care only when its on killers that DON'T need it but still have it on them because the killer knows it makes the survivors angry.
Yeah but the rules posted by the devs say you can't be an absolutely toxic douche to everyone without consequence. Meaning being toxic is breaking the rules, that's why most toxic actions are listed when you click the little thumbsup/down button at the end of the match in the categories. Using a specific perk isn't listed in those, is it?
Using No-ed is not inherently a toxic action, regardless of which killer they're playing or why they do it. Period. You just think it is because you don't like it. -
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
@Orion said:
@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?
So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an [BAD WORD] to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.
You'd be breaking the rules, so no. I should've known I should've added "as long as they don't break the rules" to every single point, just so you couldn't pretend you didn't read it.
That's a very spicy roast. Oof.
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@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@NeoVid said:
NOED is a perk made for players who are expecting to do badly so they can salvage a game at the last moment. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, it basically makes it the killer counterpart to Decisive Strike.Someone read the post for once. Yes its good for bad players and killers that need it which is OK. I consider it not OK if you for example you use nurse with NOED on top of bloodwarden and remember me. Its literal overkill ESPECIALLY if you already dominated the team before the last gen was even finished.
If you have all that to aid in your 4k it shows you're pretty sweaty for every possible kill. It seems a lot of people are just skimming through the post and leaving regurgitated comments.
Did you read my post by any chance? Because I did read your post all the way through and you didn't comment on mine like you have on quite a few others' responses. It's on the first page, close to the bottom if you missed it. I honestly want to know if you saw it at all. I hope you did since you've commented so many times on the post since then.TL/DR, my and a few people's problem with your post isn't even about your opinion on the perk but instead on you encouraging people to be toxic and treat each-other poorly because you don't like a perk they use.
You edited that part out and added a few exceptions and a comment at the end about the perk breeding toxicity when used by people who you believe don't need it, but your motivation is still clear as day in the post. You're not suggesting a change, you're not encouraging people not to rely on the perk or trying to suggest a more skillful alternative to them. You're calling them a noob, toxic, and in the way you typed the post the first time before rewording almost all of it, you called them garbage too. You're whining, and this entire post doesn't do anything besides add to the toxicity that you're blaming on killers using no-ed. Chastising people for playing in a way you don't like IS toxic.I've tried to re-read all of your original post, the edited version, and even my own original comment before I typed this, but I check the forums when I'm about to go to bed, so as before I'm tired. If I'm missing something here, please feel free to tell me.
The main post was re-worked because in a previous comment I stated it was created out of salt and anger.
I agree that the original post was also hypocritical at stating the perk breeds toxicity while also being toxic myself. The main idea of the post itself was to just rant about its existence and how certain individuals use the perk knowing full well its overkill on certain characters that do not need it.
Its like for example putting it on nurse, if you're already so good at demolishing the team why would you also need NOED on top of that? To rub salt in the wound or something? And before you say the [Insert just cleanse every dull totem] meme i'm FULLY aware of this... The perk itself is fine in the hands of those who really need it against better players, and killers that need to to apply some pressure end game since they couldn't at the start of middle of it.
I just consider it not to be ok when its used by people who clearly don't need it on killers that never SHOULD use it.
What is it that makes you so sure they don't need it? I get what you're implying but here's the problem. You may not think a hillybilly or a myers or so on need the perk and that it's overkill, but the killer may not think so. Just because they had a good match and no-ed popped at the end and gave them the last 2 kills doesn't mean EVERY match goes that well. For all you know, that killer might ordinarily get absolutely thrashed and just have had a good match this time. Or they just have the perk because they expect all the generators to pop before they can even get more than a handful of hooks.
With how fast they do pop why WOULDN'T you want to use a perk that gives you a chance to still get some kills? There's no way to know how a match is going to go before you're in it and if most killers get the same experience I have then they've had days where it's just back to back 4 man swf groups kitted out to the gills with every advantage they can get. I've more than once had a 4 man P3 claudette group where they ALL had decisive strike, one had a flashlight, another had a map and the other two had purple toolboxes.
Do you have a problem with perks like Franklin's demise if I ran it to deal with that? Nurse's calling because it doesn't let you heal willy nilly close to the killer? What about ruin? Most killers put a perk in their setup because they believe it's needed for one reason or another, and frankly with the prove thyself changes, I'd be more surprised if people did NOT start using post gen pop builds. It'd be stupid not to prepare for that outcome when the majority of matches, especially in high rank, the gens are done in under 5 minutes.
I won't sit here and pretend some people don't rely on no-ed too much and maybe should work on their skills, but at the end of the day using it alone doesn't dictate whether you're good or bad at the game. I've had no-ed on some of my builds because I just don't feel like being treated like a joke after the gens are finished, getting tea-bagged until I force them out.
Nothing you suggested or I did applies to every killer playing what you think should never use the perk in every match. You just assume it does and post about how much of a noob they are.Don't you think if a killers getting 4k every match (for example) and still uses post-gen perks to make sure the team dies is not overkill? Or to the very least makes them look like an ass? When I say "noob" i'm really referring to them intentionally being toxic, and as such should be made fun of for it.
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really. Like for example, do you really need to punch someone in the face because they were being rude to you? You had the option to... but still choose not to because it wasn't the right way to handle the situation. In someones mind it may be, but in reality its not because it can bring on consequences.
If you assume its OK to play a 5 blink nurse for example while having blood warden, NOED, Remember me, and Ruin then somethings wrong here lmao.You missed my point entirely in your first sentence. Just because a match you were in went well does not mean every match that killer plays is a 4k. More importantly, you're again encouraging toxicity towards people for doing something you don't like. Something YOU perceive as toxic.
Also, your comparison doesn't make any sense. They have the right to use any perks they want, it's their character. That DOES justify them doing it, regardless of motivation. There is no rule or limit that says "Killers can't do this, this is unjust." And in not being unjust, it is justified. It's that simple. This has nothing to do with sportsmanship or attitude, as calling it toxic suggests.
More concerning than that, you compare it to choosing not to assault someone for being rude but you missed the part where assault is ILLEGAL. It is by definition unjust and will incur consequences because there IS a law saying not to do it.
All that perk setup suggests is that that player likes a really slow match, safety nets, and doesn't know what an ideal addon choice for nurse would be. I'm not even sure off the top of my head if you can do 5 blinks, but I imagine it comes with a downside if you can. -
@FireHazard said:
@CyanideCandy said:
@FireHazard said:
@NeoVid said:
NOED is a perk made for players who are expecting to do badly so they can salvage a game at the last moment. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, it basically makes it the killer counterpart to Decisive Strike.Someone read the post for once. Yes its good for bad players and killers that need it which is OK. I consider it not OK if you for example you use nurse with NOED on top of bloodwarden and remember me. Its literal overkill ESPECIALLY if you already dominated the team before the last gen was even finished.
If you have all that to aid in your 4k it shows you're pretty sweaty for every possible kill. It seems a lot of people are just skimming through the post and leaving regurgitated comments.
Did you read my post by any chance? Because I did read your post all the way through and you didn't comment on mine like you have on quite a few others' responses. It's on the first page, close to the bottom if you missed it. I honestly want to know if you saw it at all. I hope you did since you've commented so many times on the post since then.TL/DR, my and a few people's problem with your post isn't even about your opinion on the perk but instead on you encouraging people to be toxic and treat each-other poorly because you don't like a perk they use.
You edited that part out and added a few exceptions and a comment at the end about the perk breeding toxicity when used by people who you believe don't need it, but your motivation is still clear as day in the post. You're not suggesting a change, you're not encouraging people not to rely on the perk or trying to suggest a more skillful alternative to them. You're calling them a noob, toxic, and in the way you typed the post the first time before rewording almost all of it, you called them garbage too. You're whining, and this entire post doesn't do anything besides add to the toxicity that you're blaming on killers using no-ed. Chastising people for playing in a way you don't like IS toxic.I've tried to re-read all of your original post, the edited version, and even my own original comment before I typed this, but I check the forums when I'm about to go to bed, so as before I'm tired. If I'm missing something here, please feel free to tell me.
The main post was re-worked because in a previous comment I stated it was created out of salt and anger.
I agree that the original post was also hypocritical at stating the perk breeds toxicity while also being toxic myself. The main idea of the post itself was to just rant about its existence and how certain individuals use the perk knowing full well its overkill on certain characters that do not need it.
Its like for example putting it on nurse, if you're already so good at demolishing the team why would you also need NOED on top of that? To rub salt in the wound or something? And before you say the [Insert just cleanse every dull totem] meme i'm FULLY aware of this... The perk itself is fine in the hands of those who really need it against better players, and killers that need to to apply some pressure end game since they couldn't at the start of middle of it.
I just consider it not to be ok when its used by people who clearly don't need it on killers that never SHOULD use it.
What is it that makes you so sure they don't need it? I get what you're implying but here's the problem. You may not think a hillybilly or a myers or so on need the perk and that it's overkill, but the killer may not think so. Just because they had a good match and no-ed popped at the end and gave them the last 2 kills doesn't mean EVERY match goes that well. For all you know, that killer might ordinarily get absolutely thrashed and just have had a good match this time. Or they just have the perk because they expect all the generators to pop before they can even get more than a handful of hooks.
With how fast they do pop why WOULDN'T you want to use a perk that gives you a chance to still get some kills? There's no way to know how a match is going to go before you're in it and if most killers get the same experience I have then they've had days where it's just back to back 4 man swf groups kitted out to the gills with every advantage they can get. I've more than once had a 4 man P3 claudette group where they ALL had decisive strike, one had a flashlight, another had a map and the other two had purple toolboxes.
Do you have a problem with perks like Franklin's demise if I ran it to deal with that? Nurse's calling because it doesn't let you heal willy nilly close to the killer? What about ruin? Most killers put a perk in their setup because they believe it's needed for one reason or another, and frankly with the prove thyself changes, I'd be more surprised if people did NOT start using post gen pop builds. It'd be stupid not to prepare for that outcome when the majority of matches, especially in high rank, the gens are done in under 5 minutes.
I won't sit here and pretend some people don't rely on no-ed too much and maybe should work on their skills, but at the end of the day using it alone doesn't dictate whether you're good or bad at the game. I've had no-ed on some of my builds because I just don't feel like being treated like a joke after the gens are finished, getting tea-bagged until I force them out.
Nothing you suggested or I did applies to every killer playing what you think should never use the perk in every match. You just assume it does and post about how much of a noob they are. -
@Slayer said:
so nurse is not balanced because she is powerful and actually able to crash survivors? She can zip across the map faster than anyone else ? Do you even play nurse?Think you missed my point entirely. I wasn't commenting on wether she's balanced. The part where I used the word balance I was more referring to the wide gap in capability between her and other killers because of her ability to just ignore so many mechanics in the game. I wasn't saying she was op, just that she isn't powerful because of any attempt at being balanced. Her ability throws all of the mechanics that the devs use to "balance" every other killer out the window and that is what makes her strong. And I take no issue with her being strong, I love her just like she is.
I just don't think the gap in potential between her and everyone else should be as wide as it is. None of the killers are balanced with each other at all and nurse sits squarely at the top because the one biggest problem killers face from survivors she breaks and she's the only one who really can. Loops, pallets, windows, none of it works if the nurse knows how to play.
My comment was more to suggest other killers should be closer in power level to her, but didn't need to be quite as powerful. I just want the option to play a different killer without it being an outright self handicap. There shouldn't just be 1 or 2 strong killers, they should all be strong. That's why there's 1 killer against 4 survivors, not multiple killers. -
@FireHazard said:
@NeoVid said:
NOED is a perk made for players who are expecting to do badly so they can salvage a game at the last moment. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, it basically makes it the killer counterpart to Decisive Strike.Someone read the post for once. Yes its good for bad players and killers that need it which is OK. I consider it not OK if you for example you use nurse with NOED on top of bloodwarden and remember me. Its literal overkill ESPECIALLY if you already dominated the team before the last gen was even finished.
If you have all that to aid in your 4k it shows you're pretty sweaty for every possible kill. It seems a lot of people are just skimming through the post and leaving regurgitated comments.
Did you read my post by any chance? Because I did read your post all the way through and you didn't comment on mine like you have on quite a few others' responses. It's on the first page, close to the bottom if you missed it. I honestly want to know if you saw it at all. I hope you did since you've commented so many times on the post since then.TL/DR, my and a few people's problem with your post isn't even about your opinion on the perk but instead on you encouraging people to be toxic and treat each-other poorly because you don't like a perk they use.
You edited that part out and added a few exceptions and a comment at the end about the perk breeding toxicity when used by people who you believe don't need it, but your motivation is still clear as day in the post. You're not suggesting a change, you're not encouraging people not to rely on the perk or trying to suggest a more skillful alternative to them. You're calling them a noob, toxic, and in the way you typed the post the first time before rewording almost all of it, you called them garbage too. You're whining, and this entire post doesn't do anything besides add to the toxicity that you're blaming on killers using no-ed. Chastising people for playing in a way you don't like IS toxic.
I've tried to re-read all of your original post, the edited version, and even my own original comment before I typed this, but I check the forums when I'm about to go to bed, so as before I'm tired. If I'm missing something here, please feel free to tell me.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah a lot of the killers could use some buffs, including making them way less addon dependent. In the dev streams they keep conflating us asking for most killers to be rank 1 viable as we want all killers to be a nurse level of powerful which just isn't what we are saying.Exactly. 100% agree. It doesn't make any sense to not even try to make killers closer to one another in power level. Your choice of killer should be a choice in play-style preference and/or theme if anything, NOT in whether you want to win or lose. I personally prefer Spirit for example and I think she's in a pretty good spot overall. Poor Freddy on the other hand... Either way, generators still get finished WAY too fast if the survivors are even remotely organized or experienced and perks likes the current prove thyself really make that problem worse.
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Aaah... I'm down.
When you grab the vessel in this event your survivor glows (or sparkle like tinkerbell I guess you can say lol)CyanideCandy said:Which glow, exactly? -
Because there's 14 killers in the game and we shouldn't all have to play the same one just to feel remotely powerful in an asymmetrical game.Slayer said:You said it yourself unless you re nurse . So why wont you play nurse the only balanced killer? I have no issues playing nurse however i think her addons make her completely broken so i play without them. Dont complain about gen rush if nurse can prevent it if she played right complain about weak killers ask for their buffs dont ask for gens getting longer to fix
1v4 only works when the 1 has as much or a bit more power than the 4 and they have to use numbers and coordinate to defeat the 1. As it stands a good killer is usually about as powerful as 2 good survivors (when they don't mess up) when it comes down to perks and abilities in looping etc. Nurse is powerful because she can negate loops, pallets and windows and zip across the map faster than anyone else, not because she's balanced. She sits outside of the normal rules of the game when her ability is used appropriately.
Every other killer is still playing a 1v4 match and so should be strong enough to perform handle that, not left behind with "just play the nurse" as the excuse. Right now, most of them aren't even close and using them is pretty much asking to have a really rough time. Again, unless the survivors you face end up being incompetant.
(Edited to fix a spelling issue) -
@poweas
I'm a weirdo myself and like to avoid some of the standard perks on my spirit. No bbq, no ruin. Right now I've been having a ball using whispers, the newly buffed spies from the shadows, rancor, and stridor. Together they let me play very aggressively even without the higher quality addons. Discordance can also be put in there in place of rancor if you like and it should work fine. My build isn't the cutting edge meta, but I have fun with it and it hasn't really let me down. Alternatively bbq, myc, discordance, and pop goes the weasel is another fun one for me. I love shutting gens down myself and discordance brings me to the most pressing threat gen. Knock a fool down, hook em, kick the gen they were on after you look around to see where peeps are, set off and then come right back when make your choice pops and it all just snowballs. -
Which glow, exactly?
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I appreciate you don't want to be toxic or further a killer vs survivor main mentality, but I have to say your suggestions have a LOT of nerfs to killers and only a small handful to survivors.
I do like the idea of swf increasing gen time and have no problem with something being done to noed, but taking surprise hits or phasehits away from wraith and spirit would make the perk pretty much useless to them.
I also like the freddy and doctor changes you suggest, though memes about him being weak aside, freddy autosleeping people by just being nearby would make doing the last gen or two extremely difficuly since he can see you when you're outside the terror radius if you're asleep. I don't think it's a bad idea but some tuning would be essential and I'm not super confident the devs wouldn't overkill it one way or the other.
I also don't think killers should be further punished for camping. Defending hooks is essential and a change like increasing the hook time just for staying nearby wouldn't just punish camping. It would also severely punish a killer for just defending because they see someone going for the save and making anything take longer than it does for a killer right now also compounds the problem with generators getting done way too fast. There just isn't enough time for a mechanic like that as a killer unless the survivors aren't even trying to get generators done.
Hope my comment was at least a little productive and that it doesn't just come across as me shooting the ideas down, but I won't pretend I'm not a bit biased toward killer. I enjoy playing it much more when matches aren't too stressful and it just has far more appeal to me than survivor. That said, I do play both and have made it to rank 1 on both of them and even from the survivors side of things (where I play with 1 or no perks 95% of the time) I think a lot of these changes would make matches both even more predictable and even more easy than they already are even without swf.
Hitboxes do need to be fixed, though. No arguments there at all from me. Appreciate the effort to encourage less back and forth toxicity and I'll be watching the post to see what others say. -
I love me some Spirit and consider her my main. Myers and huntress are my usual backups, though I also love piggy. I haven't been able to get her since switching to pc yet, though.mintchapstick said:I like Legion, it's why I decided to get back into the game after about 8 months of not playing & switched from survivor to killer. Legion's the first killer I ever played for more than one round.
I play Spirit more now because she's easier and survivors make more mistakes against her, but I'm excited to see what they come up with next.
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No killer should be slower than a survivor outside of during an ability charge up. And yes, I include pig in that. I don't think sneak should be as slow as it is.NextKillerSpongebob said:@Aziux said:
If I had to list them all in order not including spirit from who I hate to VS to who I love to VS it'd go something like thisNurse, Hag, Trapper, Huntress, Pig, Clown, Doc, Freddy, Billy, Michael, Wraith, LF
Just for reference it's just the abilities that I find annoying to play against, not who I think is the best.
The Spirit. She is so damn OP and should be slower than a survivor when phase walking. KAPPA
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Doctor is probably the one I hate most, with fresdy in second place and wraith in third. It's not a matter of them being to strong or anything I just really don't enjoy playing against them at all.
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No. If you don't want camping to happen don't feed yourselves to the killer who's camping. Also it's not ALWAYS tunneling when a killer knocks down the recently unhooked. Sometimes, sure, but there's been plenty of times that "A" unhooked "B" and then hid while "B" sprint bursts off into the open view expecting the killer to just ignore them. If the killer only sees "B" and goes after them it doesn't make them a tunneler it makes them not wasting their own time. Time which killers do not have much of against good survivors to begin with. If you don't want to be tunneled or camped, don't get caught and play swf with people who aren't stupid enough to unhook you when the killer is like 5 feet away. Or maybe just crouch and hide after you get unhooked instead of sprinting away from the hook, it tends to make you easy to spot from a distance.
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I've only ran into a michael running both once (was around rank 5 at the time I believe) and I survived it. And I'm a killer main, not a survivor main. Maybe you should learn how to lose a killer without taking a hit or not be found in the first place instead of ragequitting out just because you're not steamrolling and teabagging the killer the whole match.
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Poor Freddy... I'm sure by the time they buff him the balance will have tipped so far against killers it won't matter if the new prove thyself is anything to go by.
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@FireHazard said:
For those of you who may not know, "Hex: No One Escapes Death" Is a perk that activates only when all generators are activated and the exit gates are turned on.This perk was buffed awhile back for god knows what reason, and at any level NOED has the "Exposed" status effect that grants the killer the ability to down a survivor even at full health.
Now you may ask even though its really obvious, "Why would NOED be for noobs if its such a good perk? People use DS all the time and that's also a really good perk." Yes those two perks are indeed good, but they're trash when you look at what makes players good and bad from an outside perspective. For example: A killer that downs 3 people at the end with NOED doesn't make them a good player, it just means that can't do it normally without the perk.
Players that actually assume they're good because of this baffles my mind, because it doesn't make you good... It makes you look even worse than if you lost the match to a 4 man escape. Of course you'll get some hooks at the end and or sacrifices... the other team wants to save the hooked survivor, but will usually get one shot by your NOED.
Now you may be thinking right about now "You're just salty kid, if its in the game i'm going to use it... GG EZ" And you're right, it is in the game and you have full right to use it... it just means that if you do you're garbage, and as such should be treated accordingly. The same goes for DS, if the only way for you to get out of a chase is with DS... then you need to start working on those chases my dude, cause that didn't demonstrate any skill what so ever. It in fact showed you have a lack of skill.
This perk only exists to make casual players and noobs feel better that they got demolished at the start but got a 2k at the end cause of NOED. These same players probably main Leatherface, but that's another story. And yes, i'm aware some players CAN play without these perks, they just choose to because its toxic... what i'm talking about are players that really NEED it in order to actually make any progress in a match.
[TL;DR]: You have zero skill if you regularly use NOED to win matches at the end. Try not using it for once and tell me how it goes in the comments. If it goes well then you're on your way to not being a noob.
[EDIT]: I forgot to mention that killers that are at the bottom of the tier list like The Clown and Freddy actually have a reason to use NOED. For what i'm talking about here is like for example putting NOED on Nurse or Hillbilly, two killers that CLEARLY don't need it.
I'll be honest, after reading the post I don't see the point in having made it. You list the pros and cons and even say killers have every right to use it while you say it makes you garbage and that you should be treated as such. I might be new to the forums, but I'm not new to the toxicity in this community. Maybe we should STOP treating eachother like garbage? I may be wrong here, I'm tired, but it seems your post exists only to take a crap on people who use a perk you don't like. If noed seems a crutch to you, maybe you shouldn't rely on getting hit twice to get things done. When I play survivor I generally you know... try not to get hit at all. If all the gens get done in less time than it takes to knock everyone down twice and noed pops and gets the killer some kills, you should have been A, more stealthy, or B, thought ahead before you did whatever got you knocked down. With the current balance, survivors dictate the pace of the match, using something that gives the killer a second chance after the generators get smashed to hell in three minutes doesn't make them garbage, it's just using the tools they have just like using urban evasion, self care, deadhard and D strike is for survivors. It may help the inexperienced climb a little higher in the ranks, but against genuinely skilled high ranking survivors, noed is a joke. Complaining about a perk you can disable during the match before it even activates and saying we should treat people like garbage for using it just makes you look like a douche.
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@Evilblade0 said:
I think survivors get a weapon to be able to fight back to two stun the Killer it not fair killer getting all up gradesNo.
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I go out of my way not to tunnel specifically because I like my game to last a bit. However... No. The problem here is I'd bet money most killers tunnel because they NEED that snowball to start as fast as possible. If they don't get a kill early and the survivors aren't completely braindead there's a big chance every single gen will pop before they get anyone dead. If the killer never tunnels, and your teammates are altruistic, which they basically always will be, the killer has to hit you 6 times to kill you. Each time he lands a hit, he has to then wipe his weapon, during which he is severely slowed in movement while the survivor gains a speed burst. Every 2 hits he has to pick you up, carry you to a hook and put you on it. Assuming all of this goes the absolute smoothest possible and you stand under the hook for the killer it takes somewhere around 12 or 13 seconds to take you from full health to on the hook if you do not move or do anything. If noone unhooks you at all and you fully struggle, you have 2 minutes until death. A gen takes 80 seconds for 1 survivor with no perks to speed it up, no toolbox, and no great skillchecks. Now all those numbers in mind, consider how long a chase can go on before the killer does make a hit. Pallet stuns, d-strike, flashlight saves, bodyblocking, sabo saves all make this take even longer. With none of them on average most capable killers against decent survivors MIGHT get one hook by the time the first gen pops. 5 gens for the gates to power... 12 hooks to kill everyone, each of which has to be found, chased, hit twice (if not tunneling of course), picked up and carried to the hook each and every time. Sure sometimes maybe the survivors will rush a hook without being at full health but it doesn't change the facts much. Killers always have time severely against them and very limited options to counter it. Taking the easy down and tunneling is sometimes the only option, and even when it isn't and things are going well for the killer it's STILL the smarter choice. Don't punish the killers for doing what makes the most sense from every angle. Getting tunneled sucks, I know. But you can make your death count if the killer won't get off you. Waste their time. Learn to loop better. Learn to stealth better or actively lose the killer. Take dead hard in to help. Look around and come up with an escape plan while you're on the hook doing nothing. I almost never touch a generator when I play survivor. I break totems, save my teammates, seek out the wounded to heal them, and most importantly, I waste the killers time. Very rarely do I leave a match without at least 1 pip wether I live or die. Punishing the killer for playing the game without adding further difficulty onto themselves (as I still do anyway) just doesn't make sense. I go out of my way not to tunnel when i have a choice because I like the match to last a bit and for everyone to have some fun, but very often, my holding back and making things harder on myself has only gotten me a loss. I know I'm not the only one.
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I completely agree. Honestly I'm still wondering who thought this change was a good idea. Is there NOONE on the dev team who checks numbers when they suggest changes like this? People have been saying for ages that gens get done too fast and you give them one of the most powerful gen speed buffs ever in the form of a perk? Really? I agree it needed a buff but honestly, this change is ridiculous.