lindechene
lindechene
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After Knight and Lich the Dark Lord is now the third Killer that requires more advanced menu selections.
One Radial Menu UI for all mutli-ability Killers?
It would be advantageous to shape shift with a similar Radial Menu Selection as the Lich uses for ability selection.
Example:
Radial UP: Human Form
Radial Right: Bat Form
Radial Left: Wolf Form
Similar to Lich the shapes on cooldown or in use could be displayed but unselectable.
What is not optimal with the current Dark Lord Shape Shifting Controls?
Depending on the Shape you are in the buttons to switch form have different functions.
There are three shapes but on console only two shoulder buttons LB|RB are used to switch between them.
New players are forced to read the button description. Each time they switch shape the buttons have a different function.
Reasoning
It is challenging enough to memorize the controls for so many Killers.
It is crucial to start implementing one Radial User Interface to switch between Abilities so the controls become standardized.
Rule of Thumb: The same ability is always selectable by the same button in the same direction.
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Someone mentioned the Finisher mori in another thread. I read through the Developer Update from 2022.
It seems implementing that update would have solved the endgame issues I described in another thread.
As the last remaining Survivor I would be happy to finally finish those lost matches quickly instead of lying on the ground bleeding out - because the Killer is in the mood to do so.
As a Killer I would finally be able to see all those Finiser animation - I only saw them when a challenge required me to perform them and I equiped those offerings.
Has there been any information when that update is scheduled - or was this whole idea abanndoned?
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2vs8 cages are NOT working as intended.
Experienced killers are able to guess and even tell because of Aura reading where cages are.
Basically the just run to the cages to make them teleport. This is a very effective way to kill survivors because the rescuers are actually slower to traverse the map.
Get hooked. Stare at your hook bar going down. Pray a survivor reaches you before the Killer. Killer arrives first. Cage is teleported. Respawned with no other Survivor near. Bar continues to go down. The survivor spent the majority of the game in a horrible situation without any power to do anything at all.
Also here the Entity should intervene:
Either fully restore the Hook bar any time the Cage is teleported.
Or even better
Immeditately heal and release the Survivor after the Cage has teleported.
The underlying issue:
Killers can purposefully ruin the ability of Survivors to get bloodpoints by unhooking fellow survivors by slugging or rushing to cages.
For survivor this only leaves the ability to gain bloodpoints by doing generators.
While playing Killer I manage to get up to 200'000 Bloodpoints if I play well and hook Survivors 12 times, prevent generator completion.
As a Survivor I barely manage to get 100'000 Bloodpoints on a good game by doing Generators, unhooking and healing other Survivors.
On those bad games where Killers slug, camp and rush cages I barely manage to get 25'000 Bloodpoints even though I spent 20+ Minutes on a game.
Killers should once again be enticed to play fairly by encouraging the goal of getting 12 hooks. Slugging and Cage rushing to kill Survivors should not be a vaild game mechanic.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I would rather prefer that the Survivor on the ground can just have a suicide option or instant bleed-out at this point when there is really no way that they can get up anymore.
I agree with all suggestions for the ability to add a "instant bleed-out" button for the last (!) remaining survivor.
For the purpose of game challenges this should count similar as a hook or kill.
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@VantablackPharaoh91 said:
This really isn't lore accurate, why would the Entity save or heal Survivors? There's also several flaws with this:
- Saved by the Entity: There is no reason to "save" someone who is dying in 2 minutes due to endgame collapse. They lost. You lost. It sucks to be slugged but you're dead in 2 minutes, just wait the 2 minutes. Nobody seems to have issues waiting in the exit gate for 2 minutes so why is being slugged for 2 minutes while you wait for collapse such a big ask? This tool can also be abused by SWFs who force a four man slug after opening a gate to get a free 4 man out, or to force the Killer to down and kick the hatch SOLELY so they don't get an adept they may have been working for. Remember how everyone always does locker standoffs with Tombstone Myers when they try to get the achievement? Now imagine that times 1000. We shouldn't be rewarding bad behavior or adding new griefing techniques, I don't care how much you or anyone else hates being four man slugged or slugged at all. Absolutely should never be added, being slugged in the endgame should not be a get out of death free card for the Survivor. You lost.
- Healed by the Entity: 120 seconds is way the hell too much and I think you know it's way too much. You don't need "120 seconds for the Killer to find the other Survivor and hook them" nor do we need to put a bunch of stress on a Killer JUST trying to go for a 4k. Killers are ALLOWED to 4k. 30 seconds max, you shouldn't need more than that if you're actually being slugged like this because the Killer's probably looking for the other person. And what happens if the Killer gets looped by someone, someone who maybe hacked or someone who has on perks their KIller cannot counter? So both Survivors just get to go free after 120 seconds simply because the Killer has trouble catching one? Just because your friend runs the Killer for 120 seconds, you now get to have a free pass out to get the hatch or the door for doing nothing but lie there? What sense does that make? That doesn't sound very fun or fair for M1 Killers or Killers who happen to slug well. And again, this should not be a thing in this form at all, because it ONCE AGAIN can be used to grief by denying Killer adepts for the most petty reasons. Just make it a 2 minute bleedout, we don't NEED all this. Nobody seems to care if they have to wait 2 minutes at the gate so clearly, 2 minutes of bleedout is a-okay.
I need you to realize that not every single Killer in this game is Billy, Blight, or Nurse who would NEED a change like this. Most Killers would be hit by these way too hard even if they DIDN'T slug for the 4k, simply for wanting a friggin' 4k. Both of these are needless Survivor buffs to an issue that can simply be fixed with literally one thing: making the bleedout timer 2 minutes instead of four since people are fine with that wait time. Or, we could add a bleedout button after 2 minutes. There is utterly zero reason to buff Survivors in the endgame because of a loss - unless you also think we need a last minute catchup mechanic for Killers who haven't got a kill by endgame time, which is the only way anyone let alone the Devs could ever remotely consider something like this fair.
Until then, put on Unbreakable, Adrenaline, or Plot Twist and wait until the Devs come up with a solution that is fair to both sides and isn't exploitable by bad actors.
Because Killers are allowed to win the game and slugging is an intended part of the game.
From a game health perspective it simply is NOT ACCEPTABLE that any player has to spend 2 minutes without any power to intervene waiting for the end result.
Any good game design encourages a new experience after 30-40 seconds.
The last survior being trolled by the Killer does not have a choice. He is forced to bleed out without ANY options to be saved.
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Share those ideas. It is not a "whatever" situation.
This game is still around after so many years. There could be countless ways to improve 1vs4 games.
Maybe it is to late for Dead by Daylight because too many mechanics impact each other.
If Behaviour ever makes a similar 1vs4 game the same mistakes could be prevented by implementing mechanics to prevent unfun and unfair situations.
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The change to hide the ranks was a step in the right direction.
People should not be provided with information that causes them to leave the lobby again.
Every time a player leaves the lobby the waiting time for the remaining players is increased by the average search time once more.
BUT
Some people may want to see the rank just to know which teammate may need some help. Helpful players can then stay close and lure the killer away to protect the low rank beginner.
To prevent that players doge the lobby when ranks are displayed it would be reasonable to remove the ability to leave the lobby once players are assigned to one.
-> I value shorter matchmaking times higher than the ability to "choose" teammates and opponents.
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@Mr_K said:
That won't work. Sometimes survivors and killers recognize other players they don't want to play with again.
Would it not be more efficient to add some kind of "blacklist" functionality where players could add some people they do not want to play with?
It should not be that one player who does not want to play with some other people for his own reasons is causing longer queue times for everyone else.
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@Mr_K said:
Currently on PC and Switch. Lobbies can form without a killer present and if a killer leaves the lobby does not close. What else do you want again?
tldr version:
The matchmaking searches for 5 players who "fit" together and then starts the match.
Players should NOT be placed in a public lobby before 5 players are found.
When a prematch lobby is needed players can make adjustments there AFTER all five players are found.
Once five matching players are found none of them is supposed to leave again until the match is finished.
...
From that perspective reducing waiting and search time for everyone is considered more important than the ability to choose opponents and teammates.
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Based on the feedback it seems people still want the option to be able to switch equipment in the lobby before the match.
An alternative then could be:
- The prematch lobby stays as before
BUT
- It is not possible anymore to leave the prematch lobby
- Disconnecting in the prematch lobby would be treated the same as leaving trough the match.
...
How much does the waiting time change for those who stay when someone skips the lobby?
The "Waiting Time" was measured with a stopwatch from hitting ready the first time to search for a match to the moment five players were assembled in the lobby and all clicked ready or the countdown reached zero.
- When five players were added the lobby together and immediately clicked ready the fastest time observed in the test period was 45 seconds.
- When a survivor leaves the lobby the waiting time increases because matchmaking is started again searching for a suitable replacement. As a rule of thumb you can expect the waiting time to be another 45 seconds but more often is is longer up to two to three minutes to find that one replacement.
- When the waiting time is allready longer than 5 minutes in most of the observed cases the watiing time would be even longer than 7 minutes.
- When players in a group are not of the same rank it seems like matchmaking spends significantly longer finding a replacement that matches specifc rare criteria.
- When the waiting time started to becomes longer than 5 minutes after the first survivor leaves one or two more would leave as well.
- Because of that the "smart" choice seems to be to leave a lobby after more than twice the average search time has passed. This means it is fater to start in a new lobby than to wait until matchmaking finally produces a result for the current lobby members.
What is the main intention:
- It should be prevented that players waste the time of others be skipping out of a lobby and retriggering the search stage of the lobby.
- Players should not be able to choose those opponents they prefer and skip those they do not like.
- If the preparation stage is considered crucial before the game then the prematch lobby could remain without the ability to leave it again.
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@Boss said:
Wouldn't a big problem be your ping?
If you're having a bad day, y'know, you've been waiting for a long time and, thanks to matchmaking, you then get dumped into a match in which your connection is horrible and DCing or death are your only options, i figure you wouldn't have a great time.
So basically what you are saying is that another benefit of the pre match lobby is that user can check the connection bar if it is green (great), yellow (works mostly fine), red (may notice lag)?
My assumption when writing the above is that the matchmaking in the future with dedicated servers is smart enough to actually bring together players with similar good connection.
My impression is that the way the lobby was designed was with a player (the killer) hosting the match.
With dedicated servers hopefully arriving soon also on console this whole "prematch lobby dance" with people joining and skipping out again for various reason could become a thing of the past.
. . .
To put it differently:
After more than a year of paying I still enjoy the gameplay of both the killer and survivor side.
But what repeatedly frustrates me with DbD is the amount of time I spend in loading screens and waiting around in the lobby.
On my priority list reducing waiting times is much higher than new content or any other issue discussed on this forum...
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Some additional observations why this button matters to me:
- After every single match I play as Killer I need to quickly switch back to the Survivor selection menu to distribute some additional bloodpoints to the one survivor with the lowest level.
- The first thing I do when I log back to dead by daylight after some time is to clear all dailies.
- On each play session it requires several tries to switch between killer and survivor to figure out which have currently the fastest queue times.
- Going back to the main menu from the survivor or killer selection menu at least on PS4 requires the game to load two new user interface screens instead of just updating the already loaded character selection user interface.
-> The switch button between survivor and killer helped to quickly switch between survivor and killer selection.
-> Players should be encouraged by all means necessary to play both survivors and killers.
The change to remove the quick switch button was a step in the opposite direction.
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To those who replied thank you for taking time of reading trough it and giving it some thought.
My subjective impression is that just one of the options alone is not going to make a significant enough improvement.
Quickplay and Random queues could be introduced in combination with blood point rewards for those who are willing to choose them.
The viability of 4 vs 1 gameplay may depend on a large number of people who are willing to play both sides and take on players of any skill level.
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tldr:
Legion was nerved because some of his powers could be misused to make the game extremely unfun.
From my point of view it is wrong to say that Hillbilly is balanced as long as his power can in similar ways be misused.
. . .
Some Hillbilly players are able to stand and wait just far enough away from the hook to not get any punishment by the reworked emblem system.
As soon as a player attempts to rescue the teammate on the hook the chainsaw is charged up and with experience hits either the unhooked or the survivor trying to rescue just at the very moment the unhooking animation ends.
A similar technique can often be observed at the basement stairs.
Hillbilly waits for a survivor to go down and then charges down the stairs just at the very moment the survivors are attempting to leave the basement.
. . .
Other killers who "camp" get punished by the new emblem system.
Hillbilly players are simply able to wait at a distance, charge, down & repeat.
Do you consider this is a balanced and fair use of a killers power?
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I will pick up just a few points to provide further details on those to give a better understanding based on what mindset this proposal is coming from.
- Theory crafting
It is important that players can propose new game ideas on the forum.
However it is extremely unproductive that speculation and in many case wrong assumptions how the new features may work are mixed together with feedback from those who actually tested them.
- The streamers who won't be able to stream the PTB, make money, or grow their channel and are unable to even discuss the changes because of the NDA?
When streamers show footage from the PTB with positive attitude to some it can be considered as advertisement for the game.
However if streamers show footage from the PTB with negative comments and are pointing out issues this can actually turn some potential players away.
That is the reason why such discussions should remain behind closed doors when the content is not in a presentable stage.
Streamers can still stream the content that is available to be played by everyone.
. . .
- "The PTR is already dead 2-4 days after it is released."
- "After PTR only minor tweaks can be made before releasing the content."
Quality feedback:
One purpose of the PTR may be to get active feedback about the quality of the content.
How do players like the new features and how can they be possibly be used in unintended ways?
Quantity feedback:
Another purpose of the PTB may be to get passive feedback from a large quantity of players about bugs in a live playing environment.
. . .
Is the player base to small for a PTB?
Currently my impression is that the DbD playerbase is to small to reliably find and squash any small bugs during the PTR phase. If the statement that the PTR is already dead after 2-4 days is an accurate description of the actual player participation this would further explain why.
Based on observations many of the minor bugs are only discovered once the game was released to the full population of all players.
In addition there is a risk that the sample of PC players participating in the PTB is not an accurate representation of the opinions of the whole player base.
. . .
Who could be providing the quality feedback?
- Fog whisperers are invited to visit the offices and get introduced to new game mechanics currently in development. Because those players know the game and the community extremely well there are in a great position to point out good aspects of new ideas and possible risks of how other players may use abilities in unintended ways. (This may already be happening.)
- Test groups of 4x5 people with some basic familiarity about DbD from the local area of Montreal are invited to the office to test new features.
- Test groups of 4x5 people with no knowledge about DbD from the local area of Montreal are invited to the office to test new features.
- Feedback from all three groups is considered before going live with new content or updates.
. . .
Who could be providing the quantity feedback?
- After internal testing new content is released on all platforms at the same time.
- After one week all players get in game a link to a survey.
. . .
Tldr / Summary:
Considering the current challenges with this community a PTB the benefit of not having the negative consequences of the PTB is valued higher than the possible feedback gathered that way.
The flow of the feedback would be more optimized if more testing would be done behind closed doors first.
After content is released ALL players from all platforms get access at the same time and can provide feedback on actual game impressions.
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Same issue here.
Location Switzerland.
Other online games work without any error messages on PS4.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
After lots of games as the Plague I finally managed to get 4 kills taking advantage of an easier games from rank reset and yes everyone is right. No Adept trophy. I didn't manage to double-pip as the last survivor was one-hooked.
I guess I should have tried to get the nurse one when it was achievable. I hope its a bug because you don't need to double-pip for the survivor trophy but double-pipping a killer with poor perks like Plague even after rank reset is asking too much.
Edited:
I am still not sure if this is currently "working as intended".
After some failed attempts with "just" four sacrifices the achievement triggered after the writing "Merciless Killer" appeared in the match score screen with four iridescent emblems.
My impression is that I saw the score information "Noone Escaped" multiple times without getting the achievement.
I managed to get the "Merciless Killer" with 16 points after I adjusted my playstyle and got lucky.
14 points would have been enough to get a double pip depending on rank:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/52295/the-emblem-system-changes-explained
. . .
The question remains if it is even possible to change achievements criteria now or if they are locked in for old killers.
. . .
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I was playing from rank 10-35 with the plague with only her three main perks without a fourth perk.
I was not yet able to get Plague Adept Achievement.
For all previous killers I had been able to get this achievement done as far as I recall before hitting levels 20-25.
...
My mindset used to be:
- play the first few levels with only the killers personal perks to get to know the abilities
- When you reached the "Adept" achievement you have acquired enough basic knowledge to move and switch things up.
- the "fun" part of the game used to begin when I could drop some of the default perks and switch in some other ones.
...
Additional challenges:
- Killers can only gain four iridescent emblems when the survivors actually play somewhat decently as well. While playing with the Plague I encountered disconnects or survivors standing in front of a hook pointing at it.
- Intentionally waiting for rank reset may not help much because low levels survivors may fail to help their teammates and the game is over before 9 (?) hooks are performed.
...
Suggestions:
Please reduce the difficulty of the Adept achievement for Killers in a way that makes it less challenging to achieve.
Finishing a game with 4 Kills should be enough as a fair requirement when all Survivors have to do is escape.
...
Reasonings:
Some achievements can be intentionally hard to give expert players something to do after the main goals of the game are completed.
However from my point of view the "Adept" achievement even by name should just indicate: The player spent a fair amount of time with this Killer and has now an "adept" understanding of its perks and playstyle.
. . .
In general the Adept achievements seem to have a very low completion rate of 0.1-0.5% (on PS4).
That is about 1 to 5 players in about a 1000 who complete them.
Maybe the requirement to not use the 4th perk slot is challenging enough on its own?
. . .
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Do you have any idea the amount of the community that play SWF? I don't know.. but the last time they released that stat is was about half. Which has probably increased since then.
It does not matter how big the part of the community is that is currently playing SWF.
ALL of them can queue up solo.However solo queues won't work, unless the Devs make it so players can't see who is in their lobbies. To prevent players from dodging lobbies until they get their friends.
This whole practice of dodging loobies to "find" your friends only worked when DbD was released because in the beginning the player base was very small.
With dedicated servers there could be a simple solution to that as well:
Every time people dodge a lobby their priority in matchmaking gets lowered and a penalty queue time is added.
So bascially.. if you want to play with your friends... Then just play another game?... So push back on more then half the DBD community and stop them from playing with their friends? So kill the game basically?
Again, every single one of the SWF players can continue to play the game solo.
My impression is:
For new solo survivors it is not fun to play this game because they are outmatched not only in skill but also in perks, addons offerings. Instead of feeling part of a team they are just there to fill the empty slot so SWF teams can then farm them or leave them on the hook to die while they finish their generators.
For new killers it is not fun to play this game because voice communications give away the killer location at any time and defeat the whole threat of not knowing where the killer is.
If more and more solo killers and survivors leave then surely this game will be dead.
IF the veterans want this game to survive then they should finally acknowledge that without solo players this game can not work.
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Just bring that Tyrant as licensed Killer.
Slowly but with loud stomping noises.
Can use his power to break trough the walls of the shack and mazes.
At the end of the match not many obstacles would be left to loop around. -
tldr Version:
A difficult choice needs to be made.
Continue to support SWF game modes but then introduce respawns or other game mechanics so everyone can play for the whole round. = No permanent deaths.
or
Come to the conclusion that this specific horror 4vs1 genre relies on the basic idea that a survivor can die. Therefore it would be best to just support queues for solo players for new game modes.
There can not be enough threads about SWF.
For me the most important points are:
1) Everyone could play solo
All individual SWF players would have the ability to queue up as solo players.
If SWF would not be supported for some new game modes "reasonable" people interested enough in the core mechanics of the game would simply go back to queuing up solo.
Some may leave to play something else with their friends but certainly not everyone.2) If solo players and killers continue to be driven away the queue times will become longer
The ability to play with your friends in a 4vs1 game depends that there is still one person playing solo.
4 SWF - 1 solo Killer
2 SWF - 2 SWF - 1 solo Killer
3 SWF - 1 solo Killer - 1 solo Survivor
2 SWF - 1 solo Killer - 2 solo Survivor**3) SWF fosters toxicity when one friend dies first and has to watch for the rest of the game
Solo players can simply queue up again. SWF players dying are forced to watch and wait for the rest of the match.
Combining 4vs 1 and SWF could work in a less frustrating way when everyone would be able to continue playing until the end of the round. As long as the objective of Killers remains to kill Survivors and they have no way to respawn this frustration of having to watch your teammates finish the game without you cannot be solved.4) Without SWF different game modes could be introduced that shift the available objective when the first survivor dies
Progress made on generators would carry over to the next phase and less parts would required to be gathered by the three remaining survivors. etc.
Solo survivors would appreciate longer matches where they get a new chance to escape when the first survivor dies.
SWF players do not want that because then they would even have to wait longer until the next game starts.5) Balancing around solo players
It can not be helped that some random people will find ways to invite other survivors into audio chats from the lobby. But just because some people will find ways to trick the system the solution is not to simply create the whole game around those.
The game could be balanced for random solo survivors teamed up in order to survive the challenges ahead.
6) There are enough other games out there who are intended to be played with your friends.
People who want to play with friends have a huge selection of games to choose from.
People who want to queue up as solo players with random strangers have not much choice.
The survival horror based core mechanics of DbD could work best without voice communication.It probably would not work to remove SWF from the current existing "generator repair" game mode available now.
What could work is to insist on solo queues for new game modes in the future.
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This can also be helpful when you are the last surviving solo survivor.
When you are on your way to find the hatch make a quick stop at every generator you pass.This will start a mind game with "some" killers.
Is the last survivor even looking for the hatch or is he now sneaking around the map finishing generators?
Did he just now activate this generator?
Maybe he is still hiding close by?
Should I stay and look for him or go back to the hatch?If you have "Alert" equipped this may even allow you to start running while searching for the hatch because you can know that the killer just kicked a generator far away...
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@ClogWench said:
My point stands though, if 4 survivors all manage to go down in the basement at once it's because they played poorly. Regardless of anything else in the match, that was just a huge mistake on their part and they were punished for it. It doesn't constitute a special reward to the killer.If the survivors play extremely stupid and die so quickly the Killer may not even be able to pip but just finish the match even.
Remember that killers have to spend blood points to unlock addons and offerings.
If all four survivors die on the first hook without any decent chase and much occasion for the killer to use his power he will miss out on two things:
Emblems & Blood points.
For survivors it is frustrating to face a camping killer because they cannot heal or unhook.
For survivors the solution would be to gain extra blood and emblem points for playing stealthy and finishing generators without being in a chase.
From that point of view it would be equally necessary to acknowledge such 4k down in basement in 30 seconds "achievements" by killers and reward them.
Players should not be punished and receive less chances to gain emblem and blood points when the other side performs extremely poorly...
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Others have said it but it cannot be stressed enough:
The thread creator has several threads running on this forum that in most cases seem to propose features or elements that would actually hurt the game if they were to be implemented as suggested.
I have a very difficult time telling if he is serious about this thread or if this is just another troll thread.
In any case characters should just be for the cosmetics.
Players should be able to choose any character they identify with in combination with the perks they like.
Perks should be able to be unlocked without playing a specific character by gaining character independent perk points that can be spent in a more general skill tree.
There are so many great cosmetics out there. New players should be able to choose the character they think looks cool and not be forced to endure 40 level of Claudette, Meg, Nea, David to unlock those perks that are considered meta.
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@ separate game mode
What everyone needs to keep in mind is that this is being suggested as a separate game-mode, not in replacement of the base game-mode
What I like about that suggestion is that those people who are open to the idea of playing both Survivor and Killer are REWARDED for their positive and helpful attitude to keep the game alive and enjoyable.
If YOU want to insist on only playing killer or only survivor or only SWF it should be YOU who suffers the longer waiting times and not everyone else who is willing to take on both roles.
@ Playing both sides
In other games with more diverse game modes it is not even up for debate if the player is attacking or defending. Attackers or defenders are randomly selected.
The more game modes a game offers the more it becomes necessary to remove the role choice from players because it would not be possible to have separate queueable game modes for all the variations.But all those variations and the constant switch of the role is what makes those games interesting and keeps them alive. Exactly because you cannot choose the role you play each round is interesting and different.
And the most important point:
When players have to learn to play both sides the constant lobbying to just improve one side will be a thing of the past as well.
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2pm EST (Eastern Standard Time US)
seems to be
7pm GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) = 19.00 GMT
That means if you are in a GMT +1 time zone the event starts one hour later at 8 pm = 20.00
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tldr version: Fan Service could help to prevent tunnelling and bring new players looking for a more fun and relaxed way to play killer.
The original post contains the basic idea. In this post some additional details are added that would need to be tested in order to balance the killers power and the Embarrassed status effect further.
Could Fan Service be supported with licensed survivors?
It depends on the policy of the license givers. Those who have featured their main characters in similar scenes in their movies may not need to be convinced much because they know how such scenes can attract more attention.
As an alternative option the clothing of licensed characters could just be torn in a modest way fitting the needs of the franchise.
Could Fan Service help to prevent tunnelling?
Yes. The goal of the killer would be to put as many survivors as possible in the Embarrassed state. Players will not be able to quickly heal each other before they retrieved their clothing from a locker. They will not be able to repair a generator together.
Could Fan Service help to prevent that Survivors wait around the Exit Gates?
Yes. Fellow Survivors waiting around the exit gate would block their teammate from leaving. Especially SWF groups would now have a big incentive to stay away from that gate so their "Embarrassed" teammate can leave without having to retrieve the clothing first.
Can an Embarrassed Survivor be healed?
Yes. After a teammate unhooks an Embarrassed Survivor he can heal him.
However the Embarrassed Survivor cannot heal others before the clothing is retrieved from the locker.What happens when another Survivor starts to work on the same Generator as an Embarrassed Survivor?
The repair action of the Embarrassed Survivor is interrupted when another survivor starts working on the same generator.
The Embarrassed Survivor is faced with the choice to either start searching lockers to retrieve his clothing or to stay in the Embarrassed state and find another generator to work on alone.
How long would it take to put on the clothing in the locker?
When no clothing is found the time to enter and leave the locker remains as before.
However when the clothing is found the character would remain a few seconds in the locker to change.
This the probability of retrieving the clothing and duration of the stay in the locker to put them back on would need to be tested for balance reasons.
With a low probability ( 33-50 %) to find clothing in lockers the time spent in the locker could just take 3-5 seconds.
With a high probability to find clothing (66 -100%) the time spent in the locker could be 15-20 seconds.
The second option would make it more risky to put the clothing back on.
It could produce some funny situations when another survivor looking for his clothes is opening an already occupied locker.
Variants of Fan Service and Embarrassed status
- Instead of having to wait until both shirt and pants are lost and the Embarrassed status is triggered players could have the option to search lockers to retrieve the shirt again.
This would make it easier for survivors to prevent being put into the Embarrassed state but they would waste more time searching lockers.
- Status Effect: Slightly Embarrassed
When Survivors loose their shirt they are just "Slightly Embarrassed" and can keep working on generators with others and escape trough the exit gate.
However they would not feel comfortable enough healing others wearing only a shirt.Could Fan Service bring new players to Dead by Daylight?
Yes. Depending on the region there are certainly people who are looking for games that feature Fan Service.
Players who are not mainly motivated by killing but rather by putting survivors into the Embarrassed state could bring a welcome change of attitude to the game where it is not just about winning but actually having a fun time in a more relaxed way.
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@DexyIV said:
Assuming the current ranking/matchmaking would be removed, starting out would be a nightmare because experienced players could just remove their perks and play with you. Not to mention this would likely increase queue times and overall discourage the use of iridescent tier stuff as a result. Don't know if I like this really. A lot of flaws with itIn the existing matchmaking experienced players downrank on purpose.
If equipped perks items would be considered this would prevent that new players get stomped by those players who stockpile items and have all rank 3 perks.I did NOT write that the existing rank based matchmaking should be completely removed. That was another thread... "Skill" and "previous experience" could be combined with the Loadout points.
The Skill points could be the inverse of the existing Survivor or Killer Rank
Beginner Rank 20 player has 1 Skill Points
Experienced Rank 1 player has 20 Skill Points.Example New player level 5 at Rank 17
Loadout points 7
Skill points 3
Total Matchmaking Score 10
Example Prestige 3 level 50 player at Rank 1
Loadout points 28
Skill points 20Total Matchmaking score 48
The problem with the game in its current state is that players with 7 Loadout points face other players with 28 loadout points.
When the gameplay experience heavily depends on the loadout it crucial to also consider the "loadout points" and not just about "Skill".
A fair and balanced matchmaking could consider both aspects.
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The community would be better off when five players queue solo and the killer is selected randomly.
Why?
- Every player would then be affected to changes to both killers and survivors.
- Every player would have a basic understanding of the challenges of playing both sides.
A huge part of this whole toxicity is created because some people queue with their friends and the first one to die he has to sit there passively watching the rest of the game.
This could be address so that players who die spawn as either "helpers" to the survivor or "assistants" to the killer.
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@Master said:
@lindechene said:
Unfortunately many solutions to improve matchmaking and queue times may not be ready to be implemented before dedicated servers are live.Is it to early to suggest to offer an optional "quick play" queue option?
5 players with optimal connection speed are matched as quickly as possible.
It is randomly selected who of the 5 player is killer and who is survivor.
Ranking could be ignored as well.It does not solve the situation for SWF or those who only want to play solo survivor.
But why not at least provide a solution for those who do not care if they play killer or survivor and about ranking?
Since only solo-players could enter such a game mode, it cant exist for the same reason why killers cant opt out of SWF
From my point of view currently there are a considerable amount of issues and challenges that result in the same answer:
Unfortunately this suggestion will not work because we have to consider SWF.
At what point exactly is it time to consider that it is not healthy for this game to keep supporting SWF when it means that all those people both survivors and killers who want to play solo are the ones who have to deal with the negative consequences?
Bad matchmaking and longer waiting times for solo killers and survivors just so some people can "enjoy" playing together?
Why is it such a huge challenge for this community to realize that everyone would have a better game experience both in matchmaking speed and skill of the opponents when people could only queue solo.
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Unfortunately many solutions to improve matchmaking and queue times may not be ready to be implemented before dedicated servers are live.
Is it to early to suggest to offer an optional "quick play" queue option?
5 players with optimal connection speed are matched as quickly as possible.
It is randomly selected who of the 5 player is killer and who is survivor.
Ranking could be ignored as well.It does not solve the situation for SWF or those who only want to play solo survivor.
But why not at least provide a solution for those who do not care if they play killer or survivor and about ranking?
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Some image examples from todays play session as both solo survivor and killer:
Survivor Rank 8 faced a Rank 4 Killer with
Rank 3 Nurse Calling
Rank 3 BBQ and Chilli
Rank 3 Whispers
Rank 3 RuinSurvivors had Brand New Part (Ultra Rare) and Ranger Medkit (Very Rare)
Killer Rank 10 Black Ward Example
Ultra Rare Addon that afflicts Dying on Hatchet Hit but removes 4 hatches.
combined with
Very Rare Addon that adds two extra hatches
results in
3 Hatchets that afflict Dying on Hatchet Hitcombined with
Black Ward that allows to keep Item and Hatchet4 Black Wards in inventory enabled to run this setup 5 times in a row.
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I actually did come to the forum to find some information if there currently is some "special" reason why match making seems longer than usual like during Halloween.
Yesterday after rank reset on PS4 as solo survivor I observed 3-4 minute queues.
As Killer the lobby filled with 4 survivors within mostly less than 30 seconds.
Playing survivor again later in the night the waiting times improved but I started to observe some very weird parings.
Examples:
4 survivors level 11-13 and one killer at 18. (???)
2 survivors at 17-18. 2 survivors at 11-13 and one killer at 17.
1 survivor at 13. 3 survivors at 17-18 and one killer at 17.
. . .
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tldr version:
1) Give solo survivor a perk or add-ons so they can complete the objective "Where did they go"
2) Provide Killers a perk, add-ons or offerings so they can detect inactive survivors hiding near the hatch waiting for their teammate who is actually doing generators to be found first.
. . .
The main challenge when trying to complete the achievement is to actually be able to tell other solo survivors that they can now exit trough the hatch.
As "Wake up" currently works it shows your aura while you are opening the gate.
To many new players the animation while opening the hatch might look like another survivor crouching.Some might be curious to go have a look. Many might not even understand what is happening and then head out the exit gates and no one would be able to complete the achievement.
Maybe what could help is
a huge pillar like for the map marker ability so curious survivors will run towards it.
a bubble with a noise notification showing the hatch enlarged for all other survivors.
a text notification from the entity in the middle of the screen that the hatch is open probably would be too much and break the 4th wall but might be best suited to provide enough information so people do not miss an opportunity that presents itself only very rarely.
. . .
How often did it happen to you that someone opened the hatch after all generators are done and more than one survivor used it?
I one time observed two survivors exiting trough the hatch and my player level is in the middle of Devotion two
Maybe that achievement "Where did they go" could be changed to simply opening the black lock with a key without the need of a whole team of 4 survivors escaping trough it....
. . . -
Maybe BHVR can take ideas and change the Chase mechanic altogether with it.
In the dev stream where original concepts for Legions were presented it was also said that one of the original ideas for Legion was to have another stalker type of killer.
To me it seems the mechanic to intentionally let survivors go and following their "trail" out of chase is left of that original idea.
But the way this currently works feels indeed like some kind of exploit because you always feel like you have to "cheat" the system to stay out of chase.
It should be possible to follow a survivor in the distance with him visible on the screen without triggering a chase.
Killers should not need to resort to "moonwalking" or "Blood Hound and look at the ground" to stalk efficiently with Legion.
So yes, another look at the current in game mechanics what counts a chase and how chase is intentionally broken by both survivors and killers may be needed.
For Legion a simple solution could be to give him a **"stalking stance" ** by pressing L1 or x.
When Legion enters the stalking stance with slower movement speed any ongoing chase is cancelled.
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Edited:
- removed some sentences to focus on the main ideas.
The first post is a very long read but offers a lot of constructive ideas.
The biggest challenge of the game in its current form indeed is that actions in the first few minutes may have a huge effect on the outcome on both sides.
For me the solution to the death efficiency problem is introducing different game objectives based on the numbers of remaining survivors. Instead of one phase with one objective the game needs four phases.
Stage 1:
-4 survivors are alive > Nobody has been hooked
-3 survivors doing gens, 100% efficiencyThe assumption that one survivor is always chased is wrong.
There are seven generators in the beginning.
It could be 4 survivors working on 4 generators. Killer could search around 3 empty ones.
It could be 4 survivors working on 3 generators. Killer could search around 4 empty ones.
It could be 4 survivors working on 2 generators. Killer could search around 5 empty ones.
It could be 4 survivors working on 1 generators. Killer could search around 6 empty ones.
In any case the result is the same:
100 % efficiency is 4 survivors doing gens.
But this also shows that for killers it is in many cases a matter of luck where they spawn and how quickly they are able to find survivors.
What other way would there be to solve the death efficiency problem?
introduce "stages" that change the possible ways of escaping depending on how many Survivors are left.
When the first survivor dies the fixing generator stage of the game ends.
Survivors are moved into a new area by the entity and now try to escape by performing another objective that was designed for three people working together.After another survivor dies they are moved into yet another area where the last two remaining survivors need to work together to escape.
Then the last survivor aka "Final Girl" can try to outsmart the killer by escaping another area designed for this specific stage.
Intention:
The death efficiency problem is solved by designing unique objectives that depend on the numbers of survivors left.
Like in many horror movies once a cast member dies the rules of the game change.
For survivors the death of a team member remains threatening because they failed to complete their objective of escaping without a death and now have to earn another new way to escape.
- The remaining survivors get a new chance to escape that is balanced based on the smaller team size.
A weak link in a team does not anymore reduce the chances of other survivors to escape.
For killers the gameplay could be more fair as well because a slow start in the first phase can always be corrected in the second, third or fourth phase of the game.
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Issue: color changes
Platform: PS4 Pro
Monitor: 4K UHD TV by Samsung - UE40MU6170
Map played: anyDetails:
Nea Karlson cosmetic - Cloudy Skies Pixie BobBefore the update the top hair was a shade of gray and the side hair black.
After the update the top hair seems to be black with some gray "frosted tips".
Example:
Subjective impression:
The new version would look interesting as an additional hairstyle variant ("Frosty Tips Pixie Bob" ? ).
But it may not be what customers originally payed for. -
Issue: color changes
Platform: PS4 Pro
Monitor: 4K UHD TV by Samsung - UE40MU6170
Map played: Springwood - Badham Preschool BadhouseDetails:
The chest in the Badhouse (Basement) appeared very dark.
It seems the chest was not affected by any light placed in the environment.Example:
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Issue: color changes
Platform: PS4 Pro
Monitor: 4K UHD TV by Samsung - UE40MU6170
Map played: Lobby before the gameDetails:
The characters faces and clothing appear very bright and overexposed after the update.
It looks like the light cast by the fire (?) is now much stronger.Examples:
To compare some other areas captured on the same system where the light seems well balanced:
Notes:
Afaik my personal tv settings are not affecting the PS4 Pro screenshots.
Instead the screenshots show how it is rendered on PS4 Pro by default.
Names were edited out in photoshop for privacy. -
well this time it is the other way around:
I was able to purchase the chapter dlc just now at a around 17.08 (GMT +1) on the 11th in the Playstation store (CH).
But the game itself has not updated yet.
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This weekend I finished unlocking all teachable perks for both survivors and killers.
Survivors bloodpoint gains needs to be improved overall. All scoring events should be slightly increased and there should be new ones added, especially in the stealthy gameplay category
I absolutely agree that survivors need more ways to gain bloodpoints.
The usual argument for killers gaining more bloodpoints is that they have to stay the whole match until the last survivor leaves. But as survivor I equally often encounter matches that result in very small blood point gains and no chance to rank up.
Inactive or low level killer:
All survivors can do is finish generators or clean totems.Because the killer is not hitting anyone there is no one to heal and no chase.
= basic Altruism and no Boldness emblems
Camping killer
All survivors can do is finish generators or clean totems.
Because the killer is camping the hook and not chasing after survivors even when they come reasonable close to try to lure him away no one is getting hit.
No points can be gained for healing others or unhooking.
In both scenarios survivors did everything right and escaped but still end up not gaining BP and Pips for their time.
Reward special actions with bloodpoint gains
- Hidden bleed out
A survivor gets slugged but manages to crawl away and hide until he bleeds out.
**- Stealthy repair**
A survivor manages to repair the equivalent of a full generator without triggering a chase.
- Escape unseen
A survivor manages to escape remaining in stealth for the whole round without triggering a single chase.- Escape untouched
A survivor manages to escape without getting hit once.
**- Stealthy unhooker **
A survivor unhooks other survivors without triggering a chase or a trap for 15 seconds after unhook.Intention:
When killers are inactive or are camping survivors should be able to counter this by gaining more bloodpoints for actions in the stealth category.
Players who would enjoy playing survivor should not feel the need to play killer and cross spend the bloodpoints gained to level up survivors.
- Stealthy repair**
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Just in case:
On PS4 it is only for US and Japan for now.
They are working on bringing it to Europe as well but no ETA yet. -
I do not know if the unreal engine supports "decals" or "texture / shader layers".
In some render engines you can apply the blood effect as a second layer on top of the default skin or clothing texture.IF that would be possible in UE then basically the prestige "blood" or "dirt" effects could be applied to any head or clothing texture as top layer.
But if you want detailed custom prestige clothing sets that also include transparency (ripped clothes) etc. it would be needed to create additional custom versions for each head or clothing textures set released.
This would mean extra work for each new outfit released... -
When you hunt a Survivor you hear this thrilling jungle vibe hunting music like you're watching Predator, when you're being hunted by the killer you hear something equally thrilling but it's not scary
The music is pumping adrenaline but it is certainly not scary.
It seems to encourage chase instead of promoting hide and seek.If people want the game to be scary it's gonna need to be changed very frequently because you'll just get used to it and it will no longer be scary.
Something scary does not loose its effect if it remains to be threatening to the survival.
The most threatening thing when trying to survive is any noise that gives away your location.A combination of silence, eerie background sound and noises created by both survivors and killers could build up to a more terrifying experience.
- Glass scattered in random places in the tiles could produce noise
- A metal can that drops down from a box when passing close by
- floor panels that creak when you step on them
- window shutters that slam in the wind
- wooden doors that need to be opened silently
- automatic doors that trigger when passing by to close
- automatic lights that switch on and create a flickering sound
. . .
The possibilities for scary sound effects and the threat they could create for gameplay are infinite.
Less aura reading and running aimlessly around but more hiding and listening would be my horror game of choice.
. . . -
Would it help to have a daily or weekly post limit for users?
I try to just read most of the threads to get an idea what "the community" is thinking.
My impression so far is that the same people make multiple posts in the same thread.
Often it seems also the same people who keep going off topic to push their own agenda.
Some people do seem to have some kind of feud going on and may just want to argue for the sake of it.A daily or weekly post limit might motivate some users to give more thought on which topics to spend their voice.
In addition this would help to reduce the time needed to read trough feedback.
The option to vote up posts could still be used without restrictions.
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There is another aspect to this as well:
Some players may only have unlocked the teachable perks they really want.
Others like me may have tried to unlock as many teachable perks for both killers and survivors as they could.
The reason why I did that is because I wanted to try if I can find interesting perk combinations outside the recommended meta.
I was not attached to just using one character but also enjoyed playing different characters with unique clothing combinations.
Whenever a character reaches prestige it was a motivation to start fresh with a different set of skills.
Sometimes it was fun to play without the recommended meta perks.
But sometimes this was also frustrating because that one crucial perk like "Urban Evasion" would not show up until level 40 and when it showed up it was rank 1 and not rank 3.
…Suggestions to fine tune the current system:
- Make all four slots available from character level 1.
- When a player reaches prestige they can select one teachable perk from another character to be unlocked from the start.
- Players can mark a percentage of perks they unlocked as teachable not to show up in the bloodweb. Changing those blocked teachable would be possible with blood points as well.
...
Basic ideas:Players who unlock all teachable perks should be rewarded and not punished with completely uncontrollable random effects.
Players should be able to add their favourite perk to their favourite character so the community will have a more diverse selection of main characters with unique clothing.
- Combine choice with some random elements
…
More extreme changes that may go to far:
- Teachable perks only need to be unlocked once and can then be added immediately to any character
- Only addons and offerings are found in the bloodweb
...
Conflict of interest:
I would prefer perks not to be completely random.
But I still want the motivation to keep playing and unlocking. Reach prestige. Start again.
... -
Some additional ideas:
- Add two or three hatches so it will be quicker to find one.
- Working on a hatch makes a noise.
- There could be lights on the hatch indicating progress similar as with the exit gates
- When only one survivor is left the killer has the option to immediately grab him and kill him on the spot.(Similar as the shape with those tombstone addons)
For both killers and survivors this would mean a quicker end to the round.
If the survivor is able to find any hatch and open it he can leave.
If the killer manages to get close to the last survivor it is an guaranteed kill.
No more hatch camping. No more stand offs.To further speed this whole process up there could be optional perks that show either killer or survivor auras once the exit gates are open.
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My subjective impression is that the ability of SWF to communicate enables them to perform certain actions in situations where solo players would simply run away or hide.
From my point of view the solution is not to add aura reading abilities for everyone.
The game should at least try to remain as scary and unpredictable as possible.Instead my suggestion is to give all killers more advanced moves like a "grab" and cooldown based "360" attack that offer more options to deal with situations where SWF teams run towards or around the killer instead away.
PLEASE DONT DISCUSS HERE!
For comments on this idea please visit the separate thread:
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edited to remove accidental double post by me
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I really like that idea.
Stalking to shape shift
At the start of the round the killer could stalk a survivor to shape shift.
Meaning shape shifting is not instant and you need a living survivor not on the hook.
After the killer takes on the form of a survivor he starts to walk around the map pretending to be one of them.
****Damaging empty generators****
When the killer finds an empty generator he can work it for some time to reduce its progress.
Working on generators with surviors
When he finds another survivor working on a gen there could be options.
If the killer would immediately approach the survivor from behind for an interrupt action this would give him away.
So the killer would start working on the generator. To not give away that it is a killer there would be an alternative action to not damage the generator but actually fixing it.
Then after a few seconds of pretending the killer could get up to try an interrupt.
This would keep survivors constantly suspicious of other teammates approaching and slow the game down because it might be safer to quickly get away from the generator.
Poisoning survivors instead of healing them
Killers could pretend to heal wounded survivors and instead poisoning them causing them to loose one health state after a certain amount of time. Similar to Borrowed time mechanic.
When survivors run away they could still try to prevent the poison to trigger by healing themselves.
If a killer finds two survivor healing each other they could poison one survivor while "helping" to heal and then attack and chase the other survivor.
In the shape shifted form the killer would use medkits, toolboxes, flash lights, keys etc to attack survivors.
Depending on addons the "weapons" would have different effects.
Using pallets against survivors
The killer could trigger pallets before survivors reach them.
When survivors are near pallets they would get stunned.Fixing hooks
The killer could repair damaged hooks.
Triggering hex totems
The killer could intentionally trigger hex totems with bad effects for the survivors by finding them on the map.
**A challenge for this to work **
If the whole survivor team is on voice communication there might be less of a surprise.
In the best case scenario there could be some kind of confusion when the killer and another survivor looking exactly the same are next to each other.
.