sulaiman
sulaiman
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@woundcowboy said:
“Rework” is code for major nerfs. Best case scenario is they make a .02 % change to power/addons. Meanwhile survivors are given basekit BT and will be given protection against 3 genning. Does anyone see a double standard?
Only the ones that want to see them and dont care about balance see them.
Because you have to consider how this all contributes to kill rates and such. IF they are too high, there need to be adjustments, no matter how much the side losing their advantage crys.
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@NerfDHalready said:
i think both statements and the violations are quite clear. the only "loophole" here is, hiding for hatch and no longer progressing the game is completely fine, selfish play is endorsed but it somehow becomes an issue when 2 people decide to do it.
This. If one player does it, he is playing clever. if 2 people do it, it is holding the game hostage. Its not a clear or consequent issue at all.
If one of the player always taps the gen for a short repair, and the other doesnt, how is determined which one hold the game hostage?
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@HugTechLover said:
The “win streaks” don’t carry much weight to me, after seeing the winstreak style of gameplay.
Congratulations, you hard tunneled and slugged at 5 gens using all slowdown in pub matches. More than half the games have people just immediately give up and go next.
Not impressed. Without that style of gameplay, regardless of the killer, the streaks would be nowhere near as high.
thing is, that is what many solo survivors experience anyway, and thats where their concern about balance in this game comes from.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's so hard to say anymore. The complete lack of transparency is frustrating. I don't understand why we're not worthy of seeing what is happening with matchmaking in the game we bought. And I don't understand how we're supposed to provide feedback on an invisible system, or how the devs are supposed to improve a system based on blind feedback.
Players might be toxic or elitist about seeing MMR? Ok. Ban them. You have a report system. Players might be competitive? Yeah I can't imagine what pubs would look like if that were the case. Good thing it doesn't happen now. Players don't want to see their MMR or don't want others to see it? Let them turn it off.
Because this community has already shown, if they know the details, they will try to manipulate the metric to get easy games (look up deranking in DBD).
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610941#Comment_3610941
Obviously; but prestige is an indication of the experience of the player.
If I have trouble to get a Dwight with prestige 0 to 1 (I really suck at Chucky for now) there is no chance I'll perform against someone with more experience.
And why do you think you stuggle more against my prestige 3 dwight than against my prestige 100 claudette?
Its still the same player, no matter what prestige you are chosen.
Also, just because you are new to chucky, if you are an experienced killer, you have enough game sense and map knowledge to cope with a decent amount of skill. You should not be playing against new and inexperienced survivors then, at least thats my opinion.
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But prestige has nothing to do with matchmaking. a lot of people with high prestige dont have much skill, and mmr is a complete different metric.
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@Crowman said:
Tunneling and Slugging being done in a match does not represent a lack of skill.
IT doesnt have to, but still, it often does.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607640#Comment_3607640
There’s no reason for him to be 4.4. He’s not a ranged killer, and his power cannot be used at all times, effectively.
Edit - 110 speed feels absolutely miserable. We should never advocate for slow killers, it’s not fun.
Can you explain why hag is a 4.4 killer then? She is not a ranged killer either.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604718#Comment_3604718
Bro it used to look this beautiful? Why the hell did they change it?
They wanted to nerf stealth, so they turned it into a wasteland.
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Well, i dont understand the issue. Look at some of the threads about tunneling and camping in the past few months. In a lot of them, killers gave a simple advise "dont go down". Now survivors try to do exactly that, and now its an issue instead of a countermeassure?
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Dredge is my killer main since he came out, and i love him. However, he depends so much on locker placement, and you often got large deathzone where you just turn into a m1 killer. if i get the skullmerchant-map, i usually just hide in a locker and forfeit the match, because it has the worst locker placement of all maps. No need to play that.
I would love them to fix locker placement, and maybe a small buff to teleporterspeed/or recharge outside of nightfall.
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Well, i learned during the made-for-this-debate, that even 3% speed has a huge impact. Since a killer can get this token at no drawback (just as being injured was no drawback for survivors, the killer can be in a chase around a jungle gym and just be in and out of chase time and again, gaining tokens) and even up to 5% speed, it seems quite overpowered if they wouldnt lose the token.
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I would like to use it. But since i consider it useless against swf, and they are not that rare, i see it as a wasted perk slot and take something else instead.
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However, remember that stealth doesnt have to mean selfish. I play stealthy if i can, but i take risks, i do unhooks, heal and do gens (most often more than my teammates). Yes, i dont like chases, and i dont go into them for free, and if i do, i wont buy you much time anyway (but i take a chase if the killer comes back after an unhook, or if you are nearby and on deathhook with the killer on your tail.)
The problem with stealth is, it used to work in chases, with the old iron will and lots of line-of sight-blockers, so you could go into a chase and then juke them with a mind game. Since the map reworks, those structures are mostly gone, because even if you have a line of sight blocker, often there is nothing where you could have gone.
That leads to one result: for a lot of people to play stealthy, they have to leave and hide somewhere before the killer is even there. They dont stay on a gen anymore if there is a heartbeat around them, but they leave as soon as they hear it, even if the killer is in a chase, and thus leads to much time wasted.
But it is a result of previous stealth nerfs, and stealth should be a valid strategy in a horror game.
So give is back ways to juke a killer in a chase instead of preemptively hidding, and you would get a lot less lost time.
So, for some of us this game is about hide and seek, for others its about the chase, but i dont think you should promote one playstyle by nerfing the other (although this is what was done in the past).
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I think you should never give free escapes, because the number of kills vs escapes are the only metric the devs use to balance the game. Everything you do to tilt that numbers just lead to false results, keeping the game less balanced than it could be.
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I think the fov-slider might kill the last bit of stealth survivors have left in the game. Not that there is much left since ulitmate weapon anyway.
Well, i liked the game (as a hide and seek), but if it doesnt work out, i am ready to move on. We will see if survivors that dont just want to chase have anything left.
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Solo survivor becomes more and more miserable, since tunneling becomes more and more popular. I play the game much less, and if i play, more often killer than survivor. I can just guess others are doing the same.
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@HugTechLover said:
My only codex - The first survivor that hangs once… will hang thrice, before any other survivor hangs once.
And thats why devs start balancing around that kind of thing, and rightly so. Also, sounds very boring for both sides.
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Actually, i dont think your codex mean anything. Basicly you say you play a certain (fairish) playstyle, but only as long as you win doing so. As soon as your victory is threatened, you throw that codex out of the window and play dirty.
Dont get me wrong, when i play killer i usually neither tunnel nor camp, unless i am threatened to lose, and i need to kill one survivor fast. So i dont blame you for that, but a true codex is meant to be kept up even if it means you are losing due to it. And there are players that do that, and they have my respect.
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@ShowNoMercy said:
It's obvious by now that we survivors ask for way too much from bhvr. We begged for basekits and mechanics that will make killers weaker. M1 killers soon have to be deal with not only 3 gen changes but also save the best for last, sloppy butcher and more. We beg for reworks that also made Trickster worse and onryo worse than ever before. We're deeply sorry for this.
We're always blaming killers for picking nurse, blight, wesker but never question ourselves why. It's because of our actions that ultimately lead to this situation. Now we're complaining that we see too much of these killers but instead of promoting a healthy balance we keep nagging the developers for nerfs to M1 killers and perks that actually helps M1 killers to flourish during the game and now the 3 gen meta will also kill off more lower tier killers such as Trapper, etc.
Na, the thing is on both sides.
While a balanced match (skillwise) should lead to a 2kill 2 escape result, and would basicly a draw, no killer or survivors is satisfied with that outcome. With killers, you see that more in their playstyle. Tunneling at 5 gens (which, if successfull, leads more likly to a 4k), slugging for a 4k (because they see a 3k not as a complete win). Killers will use those taktics to get a 4k, which is with a 4 escape the most imbalanced outcome of a match.
Survivors just cant do it with their playstyle unless they play swf, and thus demand for nerfs of playstyles or perks that help with those playstyles.
My guess why these changes are coming is not that survivors are crying, but i think they kill rates might be too high overall at the moment.
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@FriendlyKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596956#Comment_3596956
I had NO gen perks, save for pentimento with one stack that I activated after they gave up. They could have, and would have gen rushed me into oblivion. If they didn't have an agenda. They threw. And this is like the third time tonight.
The first survivor died with no gens done. Just asking, did you tunnel him out? Because that might be a reason the survivors to give up. When the killer want to make the game boring (and he will win anyway with 3 survivors left and no gen done), then some survivors let him have it.
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Yeah, i am sure it was in nightfall. dredge is my main killer, and he was glowing before me, yet no killer instinct when i came out of the locker. after the first hit we were in a chase, and i teleported to the remnant, and still no killer instinct with the survivor right in front of me, still in nightfall.
i am not sure about legion, i dont usually run undetectable on him, but then i only play him for challanges and dailys, so maybe i did.
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No, i dont recommand this game. Community tends to be toxic, and neither the killer nor the survivor experience is worth it anymore.
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@Huxy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3586542#Comment_3586542
And so does LP, and NTH, and WoO, all info Perks that grant you info for free, but I don’t see you complaining about any of those
True, but he also doesnt complain about bbq, or darkness reveals, or nowhere to hide, does he? Might it be because all of those are at a different problem level than ultimate weapon?
For me i have several problems with ultimate weapon:
- Detection: to find. You want to find a survivor hidden nearby? While you can counter Nowhere to hide, you can´t counter this. They come to your gen and you run away or they know where you are.
- Detection to prevent: Simply hook someone in a corner, proxycamp with this perk, and just interrupt any survivor that enters your terror radius for a save. At least 2 surviors are now needed to the rescue, in a favorable map 2 wont be enough.
- Detection and interrupt to protect. Activate, go near your hex totem, and you will a) know if someone is by it, and b) interrupt them cleansing your totem, because they screamed.
- Detect and interrupt: works with gens and dead mans switch or mercyless storm as well
Also, a lot of killers dont like things that come for free (look into every made-for-this-thread), so why change the standard here?
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@WW1PilotAce said:
this mode made for streamers is one of the worst things to ever happen to this game it doesnt protect streamers and protects cheaters and the worst scum of players
Can you explain why i am the worst scum of players? I am not a cheater, so i have to fall into the second category.
I use anonymous mode because in this game, because i know what can happen if you dont: I used to have a complete online-persona, which means i used the same name in all my games, all my message boards, and so on. And after one match one player not only send insults and threats, they registerd on some of my message boards and stalked me there, sending me hate comments until they got banned there.
Anonymous mode protects me from this kind of stalking (although i did change my online persona and now use different names for each game or board i use), but why does that make me scum of players? please explain that to me.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3583967#Comment_3583967
I can’t get behind that mentality. I learned this game by playing and losing a lot. You can’t occasionally play a pvp game and expect to do well against people who know the game.
While you are right, i thing most people who play occasionally dont expect to be paired against people who know the game well. But since the game prefers short queue times over fair matches, thats what you get. Thats one of the flaws of the matchmaking design, not of the players.
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I had dc´s from not responding servers during the event both when i was doing good or doing bad as a killer.
The first time it happened i was thinking of it was some kind of hack because i just downed a survivor while all of them were on death hook, but it happened several times in all kinds of situations since then.
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I just had a killer hard tunnel out first one guy, then the next, then slugging for a 4k, and told me after the game he had to do that in order to win. Game ended with just 2 gens done.
The "have to do" thing is just an excuse to take the easy (yet unfun for opponents) way to a 4k.
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I had several games today where i tunneled a guy out, just because some survivor couldnt wait for me to leave, and also didnt care to cover for their teammate. When you hook, turn to a rift 5meters away, and then he already gets unhooked and when you turn hes the only one you see, yeah, than thats the one i go for. But i really think thats on survivors, not the killer.
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Noed is a trap. If you think you cant win the game, and you get kills only through noed, it gets you up in mmr until you hit a point where even noed doesnt help you anymore, and since you never learned to play decent without it, you will really fell lost and maybe want some killer buffs, even though you just play in an mmr range you dont belong to, due to artifically inflating your mmr with noed.
Sure, you can do it, but it wont help you in the long run.
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@CorvusCorax86 said:
I had an entire team giving up when I did my 2nd hook with my Clown. All 3 players ran towards me allowing a knockdown. I wonder if it was an SWF.
Depends. Was your second hook after camping and hard tunneling the survivor you hooked first? I give up when the killer managed to tunnel the first guy out, because at 5 gens its still lost anyway and why give the killer a thrilling match if he wants to make it boring in the first place.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563157#Comment_3563157
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563158#Comment_3563158
It is completely impossible for every single aspect of a game to be fun and entertaining 100% of the time. Especially in a competitive game like this where both sides are trying to win with mutually exclusive victory conditions.
Thing is, i play both sides, and both are not fun anymore. The problem is the matches are usually very one-sided, so either you win easily, or you just dont stand a chance.
And not having fun is the reason i play way less than half a year before.
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Actually, for things i do in my personal time to relax and have fun, boring is quite a good argument. At least to not do them anymore.
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For the most time, i play both sided, but it turned into a lottery. Either you are outclassed as killer, or you have an easy stomp.
Solo survivor hangs on both teammates and killer, with a good amount of them tunneling and camping, making the game insanly boring.
Thats why i for example play way less, and whenever i play, after a bad game (not a game where i lose, but a game that is unfun) i just stop playing again.
I want this game to be fun again, but it just isnt, and at one point i might just stop playing at all.
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@patronsaintofpizza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3553957#Comment_3553957
Huh? They literally made BT base kit. There is also Reassurance, Kinship, DS, Off the Record. And soon there will be the new anti-camp mechanic.
And why is a new anti-camp mechanic needed if so many option exists? Yes, because it doesnt work at all, it just changes the approach the killer uses to camp or tunnel, but doesnt disencourage that strategy as a whole.
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Games are too binary on both sides.
As killer, its either an easy 4k, or a 0/1k against a good swf, no middle ground.
Solo survivor is basicly the same, you know within the first minute how the match will turn out, and again its mostly a stomp for one side.
Those matches are neither thrilling nor fun, because they are unbalanced from the start by matchmaking.
That being said, i play less and less as time progresses, because most matches just are not fun anymore.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552123#Comment_3552123
A 53% kill rate is mathematically not killer sided in MMR terms, but the contrary. The devs want 60% kill rate because that would mean 40% win rate for killers (as they need a 3K to win) and a 40% win rate for survivors (as they only need to escape to win).
So, having a greater than 50% chance to sacrifice anyone is still survivor sided, as they are winning more games than killers.
Can you please explain the math behind this, how a 60% kill rate transfers to a 40% winrate? It doesnt add up with my math, so maybe you can explain.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3552115#Comment_3552115
Fair enough. I'd expect them to hover around the same level, since last time we saw them it was 61%, and that was during the gen kick meta. with that drastic drop in regression I'd bet on a 4 or even 5 percent drop.
I expect it to be about the same, because in solo queue, killer compensated with heavily camping and tunneling, which inflated the kill rate again.
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@caipt said:
53% is 7% lower than the desired killrate by bhvr when they balance. thats not killer sided-
True, but thats also not the official bhvr statistics, where i expect kill rates to be way higher.
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@EvilBarney666 said:
I still contend that SWF can be a problem for killers. Especially if they have comms. I feel in this day and age of online gaming that if you play games with your friends then your most likely in a chat service of some type.
Killers are givin nothing to compensate for the communication that survivors get by using 3rd party chat. True, you can't say that everyone in SWF is using comms, but I think it safe to say we know the majority of SWF is.
Take pallet Freddy for example. In a game of all solo players you might get the majority of survivors with a surprise fake pallet. However in a SWF they just call out, Hey! Fake pallets, drop them early.
As a killer that sucks. They just ruined your build by having an advantage they should not have had. Again, the killer is given nothing in compensation. They just have to deal with it. I could go on and on about it.
As to what could be done to balance it. I have no idea. I just hope they do something. Until then tho, I will keep playing, keep doing the best I cam and keep having fun. After all, at the end of the day.. it's just a game.
SWF is in my opinion the biggest balance issue in the whole game. You cant balance around swf with comms and thus perfect information and around solo survviors with basic information (the hud actually just tells you early on if the match will be worth playing or simply lost) at the same time.
It needs to be seperated and balanced differently, but i doubt the devs will ever come to that.
Thus, the bandaid is killers are strong and get easy matches vs solos, and will just take a loss when facing swf.
Killers will still demand buffs because they still cant keep up with swf, ignoring solo surivvors (because every killer in the forum faces 4swf with comms all the time, apparently), and solos want buffs so they match is not lost within the first 2 minutes.
Both sides will be thrown little bones, but nothing much will change, because the core problem will still be ignored, and the overall statistics will help with that argument, because 4k vs solos and 0k vs swf still average around 65% kill rate.
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@cburton311 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3549433#Comment_3549433
I'm not even sure this isn't a parody post. Rewind the clock just over a year ago. Survivors had 5 second decisive strikes that worked the entire match, they had full power dead hard with iframes and distance gained, medkits could heal players multiple times at twice the speed of being healed by a teammate, plus all the little killer buffs with the 6.1 patch. All the recent killers destroy loops, reducing survivors chases to prethrow and press 'w'.
I am sorry this is the golden age for killers, and if you aren't experiencing that maybe you are at the highest possible MMR and facing the absolutely cracked survivors every match. What I think is more likely is that you more likely mid - tier killer that has a skill issue.
Most of the survivor buffs your complaining about, behavior had to add to counter toxic killer behaviors: Camping & tunnelling,
I wouldnt even think people reached the highest mmr, they just reached an mmr over their own skill level. Killers can easily do so by artificaly inflating their skill level via camping and tunneling, which will lead to more kills, till they reach the point where it is no longer that effective.
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@Boons123 said:
Well, statistics say that these maps have a high kill rate, but that does not mean that they are maps on the killer's side ,this is like saying that the Skull Merchant is a deadly killer, and in reality she is playing with a single brain cell using the (3 gens) strategy.
Statistics do not tell you about the skill of players on these maps
But if we want to know the usage rate for something, we can use statistics, and this site is somewhat accurate in terms of usage rate.
So yes, I find Nightlight accurate if I want to know the usage rate and I can trust it, unlike the kill or escape rate in these maps, it cannot be trusted sometimes.
How would you determin if someone is killer or survivor sided, when not by the matches outcome, aka the kill rate?
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I love the game when i play killer. Lockers are usually in a good distributuion (dredge main), distances are also close (hag second main), and my terror radius is all over the map (doctor for a change). I really love it with all killers i play, and yes, for that killers, its killer sided.
But since i am colorblind, i like indoor maps best anyway, because i can actually see things there.
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Interesting. I used to be a survivor main, then went to 50/50, but then became a killer main with 6.1.
For me, solo survivor on european servers is far from enjoyable, because at first you have to play lottery. Within the first minute you know if the match is just a waste of time or can be a good match, but less than 25% of my matches are, with killers camping and tunneling, survivors giving up or not doing anything.
With killer, games depend a little too much on rng with some maps, and yes, sometimes you are matched way out of your league, but for the most part i 4k in easy matches, or have some thrills which mostly end in a 2k.
For me, killer is way better than survivor at the moment.
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@daffyd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548371#Comment_3548371
"So would you have the option to not choose the match being balanced around the voice com? Because if not, you are at a severe disadvantage if you do opt out, or cant use it."
If you opt out you lose advantages of communications but that is your choice. As things stand there is no choice and the players suffering are players who play against swfs who use communications and do not have a choice nor any information about who are a swf, this is far worse.
"So much so that i would expect to see the game simply dying in europe."
Perhaps you don't like other people speaking another language but as previously mentioned you could select matchmaking languages you understand and the game will find you a game quite easily.
"Because if you balance the game to have a 62% kill rate vs swf or com users, what do you think the kill rate would be for people not using it?"
Whether it is 62% kill rate or a 42% kill rate this is to do with balance and this suggestion is to help that, to help with balance?
After all, we all want to have a fair balanced game don't we?
But its not a choice if you dont share a common language with your teammates anyway.
While you could make a matchmaking system based on language, why do you think they would consider that? They invented crossplay to widen the player pool, splitting up the different languages spoken would just split it up again in smaller portions. Past experiences how the devs handle stuff like that dont support the notion they might want to split up the player base. IF you have any evidence or valid theories to support that, please share it with us.
As far as balance goes, you should also think about the possibility that rebalancing the game would not improve matches vs swf as much as you want to, but would instead make the matches vs solos that just get squasched right now much harder. The average kill rate reflects the result of all matches, while the kill rate vs solo is way higher than vs swf. But if the kill rate were to average out between those groups, that just means wou will lose a lot more matches vs solo than you do now.
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@daffyd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548341#Comment_3548341
Kind of a negative view on this but I'm sure it could be argued that to have the option but not choose it is far better.
There are many languages but I would love to have some communication to develop my french, spanish, russian and vice-vera.
If things became a problem perhaps we could have languages accepted to play with or spoken for matchmaking, not really a problem
So would you have the option to not choose the match being balanced around the voice com? Because if not, you are at a severe disadvantage if you do opt out, or cant use it. So much so that i would expect to see the game simply dying in europe.
Because if you balance the game to have a 62% kill rate vs swf or com users, what do you think the kill rate would be for people not using it?
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That might be good in the us, but here in europe, i often play with russians, with whom i dont even share a common alphabet. You have lots of people in europe that dont speak english, and there is no way to communicate with them even with an ingame voice chat. That means you would just throw those people under the bus, because you balanced the game for a level they cant play it on.
No, i think it would do way more harm.
I still think its better to seperate swf and solo queue and balance both seperatly.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545750#Comment_3545750
So basically it is in my best interest to play as a male? It actually makes a difference?
Depends on your playstyle. If you like chases, yes. If you like stealth, males are bigger and easier to spot.
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Well, on the same note, should not rescuing someone also be considered griefing? Like someone dies on the first hook because you just dont rescue him (because the gates are already open, or a bubba is camping him), he dies on first hook but because you choose to let him die.
There usually is a reason why people want to leave the match, and a lot of times its the other survivors. There are often survivors that think the best way to get rid of the killer is lead him to you and the 95% finished gen, or to stay save is hidding in the corner doing nothing.
If you go down after 2 minutes, and noone has touched a single gen, why is it griefing if you leave as soon as possible?
Maybe its on me, i run bound in all my builds and know for the most parts where my teammates are and what they are doing. And thats quite frustrating.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542495#Comment_3542495
Turrets are now a lose lose situation
Break the turret?
Lose massive distance.
Don't break it?
Become m1 killer
So do you think turrets were intended to be ignored? OR what is the point?