gentacle
gentacle
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- gentacle
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It or Corrupt Intervention should be baseline, imho.
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They were in a good spot, but then they got a nerf and us diehard twins mains are still annoyed about it since it does nothing except bother the killer. No one takes advantage of the extra 2 seconds.
The glitch that lets survivors unhook people while Victor rides them is still in, there are still some bugs where Victor will be caught forever and you can't switch back to Charlotte or sometimes Charlotte will be slowed down to like 25% speed, etc.
About a month ago or so was the sweet spot for the Twins because we didn't have to watch Victor latch onto a survivor for 2 seconds after a pounce and changing back to Charlotte was very smooth and they had just added audio notifications of being unable to switch due to being near a hook. I'd give anything to just get that back lol.
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I main twins and if someone's nice to me my power goes away.
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I don't mind it. SWFs deserve 20 minute queues. 8)
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Wesker, Trickster was a test run to see whether or not we'd accept a normal looking killer.
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My usual twins build is BBQ/Thana/Corrupt/Whatever. Corrupt's been touched upon earlier. Thana's numbers suck but it's the only perk in the game that basically lets Victor affect slowdown as you want to be off Charlotte as much as possible. I would like to like Dying Light but giving someone the ability to heal injured states even faster destroys what you want to do as Twins because you always want to leave the slugging snowball option available.
I like Sloppy/Mindbreaker/Agitation as a fourth perk slot because hex rng has never been on my side. Sloppy for the rare and elusive Charlotte m1, Mindbreaker because it makes hitting survivors easier off a gen and just slows down the rate people get dead hard back, and Agitation just because it feels good being able to reach a hook from wherever.
Some out of left field options are Deathbound and Monitor and Abuse. M&A is great for intel and getting in more hits with Charlotte. I haven't unlocked it yet but I believe Deathbound is based on Charlotte's position so it's a great information perk for Victor and trying to interrupt a healing reset.
If I didn't use Thana, I'd probably use BBQ/Corr/Sloppy/M&A because it really gets those Charlotte M1s to help out with a Victor snowball.
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@Frontdoor6 said:
I played them recently, still as good as ever. Don't get why people say its weak, its fun
Those of us left are merely annoyed at the DS for every successful Victor pounce. No one plays legion and goes "man, i wish I was stunned for 7 seconds after using my power." Or maybe they do. Playing killer can feel somewhat masochistic at times for some hehe.
Honestly, it feels downright mean spirited and ruins the flow of a successful down and switch because now it's even more time efficient to just slug because you can't even make up lost time with Charlotte while Victor is out of play. People still don't kick Victor anyway lol.
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Salt in end game lobby
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@konchok said:
What I would like to see for the Twins is to have it so that Victor no longer gains the ability to down survivors. Every attack with Victor would be a head grab.
"Well," I hear you say. "Victor would be worthless.".
And to that I say, that if that was the only change then yes. But to counter the nerf there would be other changes.
-Victor applies a hindered effect to the survivor. (Side effect of making all vaults medium speed vaults)
-When Victor is attached to a survivors head, he has a 32 meter terror radius (This is useful for mind games)
-The aura of Victor is always visible
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Charlotte should also be changed so that she's not just an M1 killer without Victor.
If she has victor inside her, she can have victor pounce from her body.
When victor is on someone, she has an extended lunge, equal to that of coupe de grace and it stacks with coupe de grace if the perk is equipped.
this is just legion with extra steps
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Hi gamer. I started up in January without knowing anything about the game (after getting sick of another game I was playing being infested with cheaters) so I know exactly how you feel with regards to being frustrated as new killers get shoved into the deep end pretty fast.
I have a background in first person shooters so playing the killer perspective came a lot more naturally to me than it might for you so feel free to take these thoughts with a grain of salt:
- Playing killer is a time management simulator. You always want to choose the best time to cost ratio possible. This is why slugging and tunneling are effective tools and you shouldn't be dissuaded from using them. Ignoring time spent finding them or perks/items brought into the game or whatever, 4 survivors on 4 generators can get 4 of them done in 80 seconds. If they brought toolboxes or certain perks these generators are now done even faster. If they have a key, the hatch is now open. They can escape from the game on you in under 2 minutes if you don't find one and create pressure.
- Creating pressure is done by your choice of perks and killer. There's a reason Spirit/Nurse are considered extremely viable at all levels of play: mobility and the ability to give up perk lethality for perks that stall time. A typical build you might see these days is Corrupt/Pop/Ruin/BBQ. Or ruin/undying/tinkerer/pop. etc. Sometimes you'll see lethality builds like infectious fright/agitation/starstruck on them or undying/ruin/devour hope/etc. The important thing is to figure out your personal win condition and build your game's pressure around it. I personally avoid hex builds because I don't like to be dependent on RNG (and survivors seem to just know where the hexes are whenever I do experiment).
- Playing killer effectively is also a massive timesink. If you don't have BBQ, get BBQ. It's a decent information perk that generally lets you know where to go after a hook but also having the opportunity to double the amount of bloodpoints earned from a game is huge as Killers are a huge bloodpoint sink. With BBQ and survivor pudding a perfect game can net you something stupid like 96k bloodpoints.
- Going back to number 1, you don't have to be ethical with survivors. No one can tell you how to play the game. It's not real and a lot of the "survivors rulebook for killers" attitude that pervades the community is there because it's easy to demoralize one person into losing. Slug, tunnel, camp, be extra mean and vicious. A tilted survivor is a dead survivor (unless they have a bunch of second chance perks haha). Hell use Stridor on spirit. It's incredibly mean and effective.
- Versus SWFs I generally have two rules: if someone's leading me away from an area, I probably want to investigate in the exact opposite direction. And if someone's clicking a flashlight at me, there's someone nearby they're trying to protect. Try not to do what survivors want.
BBQ/Corr/2 extra perks are a wonderful base for learning how to play versus survivors especially swfs imho. Corr forces them out of their spawn area 95% of the time and gives you a general idea of where they're starting from i.e. if you spawn on the south side of the map and everything north of you has white generators, they probably started over there. If you start from the middle, then it's less reliable. Mobility on a killer is also super important. Playing trapper will teach you how to M1 but it won't actually win you games. Learning how to 3 gen and guard an area is not as good of a skill as learning how to be super aggressive with keys being as they are.
Other than that seeing as I don't know how you play I can't give you pointers on performance. Hopefully these tips/ideas help you out some. 8)
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They want the game to last as long as possible because afterward they have a 10 minute queue ahead of them :)
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I get a lot of toxicity from survivors, but it's also probably because I main the twins. 8)
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I would give Charlotte a gun. And also I'd give Victor a gun.
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Yep, it gets a bit more hairy because of that two seconds especially when going versus a swf as it's already like being balanced on a razor's edge.
The Twins were also indirectly harmed by a few of the changes in the patch like BT being universal as we had ways to play around that and now pouncing someone with BT should result in victor getting kicked 100% of the time since he gets the 5 second stun. I'll take the wins whenever someone chooses not to kick Victor but a lot of the time it feels like I'm getting 4K because of ignorance/indecision on survivors' parts rather than my own sick plays.
Also based on personal experience but I'm pretty sure they extended the distance Charlotte has to go from the hook to unleash Victor now too. Used to be like 6M, now feels like 8-10m without using the height difference tech.
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If they wanted to fix Charlotte with addons, super ultra rare iris aren't the way to do it. Plus then you don't get to use Toy Sword.
Having Victor riding someone should be an active detriment or an active buff to Charlotte if they want to do it that way. Supposedly they just allowed a Victor Hat to block unhooking which is nice but Charlotte by herself is still basically a worse trapper.
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I still carry the twins torch, hoping they'll get unnerfed. o7
honestly most survivors now assume a missed pounce is 5 seconds of stun as well and it's been a lot easier to get things rolling because mistakes turn into miracles. #savethetwins
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I think they were perfectly fine before the nerf if unfun for survivors (since when do killers care if survivors are having fun though? lol).
I don't like the idea of touching Victor's recharge time unless Charlotte gets a rage buff that lets her move faster while he's off cooldown or on a survivor.
Every nerf to the twins just takes away from the already limited pool of killers who can handle a SWF adequately. It's not even a horror game, but an action game now. An action game that lets you get stunned for 8 seconds for being successful.. :(
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It really didn't change anything except make the twins feel clunkier to play. It's incredible how bad it feels getting DS'd 20 times in a match lol.
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Not being able to switch to Charlotte for 5 seconds after a down is so awful. I can't believe they let this through.
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I'd respect them more if they just did it even though there are like 5 of us who main them in their current state lol
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grats gamer, sounds like he missed out on a 4k due to the nerf personally
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needs two coffins :(
#savethetwins
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It doesn't solve the issue of people being unaware they can kick Victor, it just lets them get away with ignorance. I guess they don't want us five people who main the twins to keep playing them.
They even nerfed stale biscuit which used to work on successful down pounce reset cooldown as well. They also didn't mention the 30 second collision removal on Charlotte in the patch notes.
#savethetwins
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oh i'm here. :^)
my favorite thing about the twins is using victor or charlotte as a living trap to enable pincer movements. Forcing a survivor to vault the grinder in The Game into a lurking Victor below, running them around a building into a Victor, etc.
Also when you can get a survivor trapped doing a pallet over and over with Victor on one side and Charlotte on the other. It feels like a situation in baseball where the runner is stuck between first and second basemen throwing the ball back and forth. Inefficient but no other killer can give that kind of feeling.
#savethetwins
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#savethetwins
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2134005#Comment_2134005
Any gen pressure they apply is meaningless unless they sit there and camp the gen as Victor. Even if they succeed or miss a pounce, it doesn't matter, the Survivor will be right back on the gen in 10 seconds.
yes, that is why Victor is usually the one camping the hook. incapacitated Survivors cant unhook, so by the time they can Charlotte is back.
now for your critique on my points:
1) you are right, this change will have an effect on multiple Killers - namely Trapper, Hag, Freddy and Twins. however, the effect it has is not something that is overall the same. for Trapper it would be more of a buff, as he is now able to actually place traps in locations that he previously was unable to due to the the proximity to a hook, so its actually beneficial to him (especially considering how the trap deadzones already make it impossible to properly guard a hook with them anyway, so in that regard barely anything changes). Freddy wont be afftected at all, unless a Survivor literally loops around the hook (in which case, are you even mad the chase takes longer? you get two for one here thats a great dea - and its not like he was reliant on his snares to get a downl) and both Twins and Hag have this issue that their "traps" are way too good at hook camping, so its a justified change to both of them (not necessarily a nerf, because it also opens up new spots to use their power in chases again).
2) first of all, as i said right at the beginning, none of the suggested buffs were anything final. those were mere examples of what could be done - the aura reveal for example is new, as right now it is but a bug that isnt ment to be present, and other things, that are currently present, can still be buffed to be more threatening. i was deliberately not making clear changes to it and mainly focussed on the basic idea of how i want Victor to work because i wanted to avoid exactly what you did - focussing on some of the suggestions and ignoring the general idea behind it.
and the reason for that was not because "i'm just a survivor main that wants to loop the killer for 5 gens" (which is a ridiculous argument to begin with), but because i find the Twins core design to be deeply flawed, which is one of the (if not the main) reasons for why i dislike them to the extend where i dont even want to play them, something that i cant say about a vast majority of other killers (in fact, the only killers where i have this mindset are the Twins and the Trickster)
having Victor work the way he currently does creates a numerous amount of problems for both sides:
1) Twins chases for Survivors are extremely boring, as it just boils down to Charlotte spamming Victor at you, who is basically undodgeable. This means that any time she gets access to him after the initial first hit is scored, you are screwed. This makes it so getting Victor off of you is actually much more of a downside than a benefit, as you just made your inevitable doom much quicker, thanks to Charlotte immediately getting him back. We basically have a old Legion scenario here where the Survivor cant really do anything to avoid the down and are only able to drag out the inevitable, which just screams bad gamedesign.
2) Victor downing a player feels mostly unrewarding. Its not hard at all to get a hit with him and the fact that he is unable to do anything with the slug means that you now gotta switch to Charlotte and run over to wherever you downed the player, hoping to not have Victor get slammed immediately and losing your slug, something the nerf they proposed on the PTB for him just made all the more clear.
3) it makes no sense to have a 4.6 m/s Killer with such a strong chase tool. This is something i thought about a lot when trying to figure things out with Trickster, but it makes no sense for Charlotte to be 4.6 m/s, when her power is not a secondary tool that is ment to assist her in getting downs (as it should be the case for 4.6 m/s Killers and what my change is aiming to do), but something she is entirely reliant on getting downs with.
My change is centered around the idea that we make Charlotte have to work for her downs instead of just spamming gremlin after gremlin at the Survivors to get easy downs. This would create much more interaction between both sides in chases and make the game overall more fun for both. However, i also dont want Charlotte to be but an M1 Killer, which is why i explicitly said we need to buff Victor to be much more of a threat to whoever he latched onto - how we do that exactly is, right now, not important. Additionally we would get rid entirely of the problem that Victor is unable to do anything with Survivors on his own, so the entire fight for the slug until Charlotte arrives gets removed, which, once again, is beneficial to both sides.
so to conclude:
the Twins are, in my honest opinion, a deeply flawed Killer. Their power, Victor, while being very creative and interesting design wise, does not work in this game whatsoever, creating very unfun and boring scenarios mostly for Survivors, but also for the Killer at times.
The gameplay experience of facing the Twins is, after the forever Freddy nerf, easily the worst any Survivor is going to have, due to the two previously talked about issues Victor portraits: Chases being meaningless thanks to Victor and the insane camping capabilities the two show making it near impossible to ever get off that hook again.
therefore, for the sake of this games overall health, those two issues need to be addressed.
and no, i am not saying "nerf Twins". i am saying change them into something that works better than what we currently have.
Hi gamer, incapacitated survivors can unhook people. Unsure if it's a glitch or unintended but it happens all the time, hth.
#savethetwins
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There are those of us out there who love playing them and want them saved gamer, #savethetwins