chezpizza
chezpizza
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I believe the Harvester (aka harvey) respawns when its killed.
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I'd prefer the outpost went on cooldown rather constantly having to prestige it then reactivate it again, just to retire it at level 10 (retire to social raids).
The cooldown could be like 12 to 72 hours depending on the outpost's level. If you want to skip the wait, then prestige it to reactivate immediately. P10 outpost must wait the full cooldown.
I feel this method could allow interesting things like maps challenges, random effects on maps when purchased, like only can't use more than 3 types of traps for 5% in parts per kill, etc. [Will add link to forum with idea already]
Idk just an idea.
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@Mellcor said:
the only issue with kill boxes is they are boring and repetitive, but due to traps and blocks being tied to the same resource, if you want lots of traps you get less block to build with. so people make a box with everything in it
but with over 100 hours in MYM i can say that very few killboxes do anything interesting and most are just a process of kill this -> then this -> then that ect ect
This.
Sometimes i feel like i am relying on luck rather than skill or tactics when I encounter a kill box build.
Thankfully the grenades and consumables are cheap enough to ensure I'm stocked up.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3396394#Comment_3396394
that counts as a death and awards the builder free money.
They may a death count but they will only get the one.
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I have started to quit bases that have clearly and purposely covered the tombs without trying to incorporate them.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3395657#Comment_3395657
the reason you can't place them is because they're meant to reward players that are able to incorporate them as they are. otherwise you'd have players doing the same bases every map.
same with bedrock. same with the genmat
they're all challenge blocks.
bases that use bedrock effectively can utilize the second wave feature and decoy blocks better. it also obviously reatricts open areas without costing capacity.
bases that protect the genmat with long and complex paths make games longer and more interesting.
bases that utilize vaults make games more interesting, rewarding, and fun. bases that don't make them less rewarding and by extension less fun. bases that give them away for free... idk. that's neutral i guess.
So I do try to incorporate these vaults when I can but it's a bit difficult trying incorporate them naturally as it consumes alot of resources.
As a raider, unless the vault is close to the main path I don't tend to venture super far, which I feel others probably might be doing too. So why waste the resources?
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If I can't incorporate them in my base design, I usually lead players to them with the medieval carpet wall paper.
Personally I feel these blocks should be place able by the player.
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I'm having a similar issue with a new brutal map I built, seems like it's getting no players.
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I don't think there is a best way to combat the chaos kill box or tower-defense-lava-pit meta without overpowering the raiders. So the only thing we player can do is upgrade our weapons and ... i hate saying it but get gud (aka memorizing the trap trigger times and detection ranges).
Personally the lost of ranking hurts the game because there are some bases where its impossible to beat without dying at least 10 times or so you know at the locations and sequence of the traps. Especially in chaos rooms where everything is going off at once.
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@mojohellcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3394858#Comment_3394858
The problem is they aren't all tight boxes. The one I made is quite spacious and the shield doesn't last long enough to make it through and the pistons prevent anyone from escaping the room fast enough to avoid being shot. Ranged isn't an option because I have 5 of those plasma caster things and 4 ranged guys. Along with the grabbing claw things and incinerators throughout the room there's literally no way through it and while I'm proud of the fact that I made one impossible to run even for the speed runners and shooters I'm really disgusted how easy it was and how toxic it is
Don't be too sure it is impossible. I have seen replays with folks just speedrunning bases with various killbox types.
Just saw someone speed run my base in 52 seconds. Granted my base is small with a kill ratio of 5, i wasnt going for impossible. This guy though was shooting and reloading so fast the ammo count didnt budge, and they simply sped walk through every trap (i dont think they bothered with the grapple shot). Im guessing they have dropped some serious hours and unlocked all the gear upgrades.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3394870#Comment_3394870
Same here with prestiging :/ and yes, p10 bases get 💫mastered💫 label and then just sit there with no usage.
As for social - asaik there's no way. But you can join mym discord (not official), people share their social outposts there. Not great but still an option.
Thanks! I definitely check out mym discord.
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I'm starting to get to that point of needing to constantly prestige and I threw one of my bases to social raid cause even though it gives me no progress I don't want it just sitting there.
Read that once a base hits level 10, it can't be prestige, which prevents reactivation for progress. So that's got me concerned. I can still put it in social raiding but gain no progress. Speak of, is there a way to explore social raids without needing a creators/bases name?
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I think there was a thread that had these ideas in there. I like most except the invisible block, feels like that would cause a lot of grief.
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Honestly I feel if all weapons were available so even a level 1 could to swap to whatever weapon loadout it would reduce the animosity people have towards these cheese builds.
See the shield is very affective against the tight kill box build.
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@hastarkis said:
Exiting your outpost will autocollect everything.
It's not obvious (and they should highlight it better) but it's here.
I was not aware of this either.
Still an option to collect resources at the player hub instead of having to enter the base would be nice. Perhaps an option at the replay station that displays new resource drop count and forces collection or something.
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I had made a suggestion during beta that they should allow the ancients be placed by the builder. If placed it will display incentive more players to pick your base or something.
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You know I would love if the maps displayed average beat times, fastest beat time and average deaths per player.
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Sword does deflects projectiles.
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Im confident we will see more build variety once more traps are introduced. As I notice most of the traps are 1x1 blocks, wonder if bhvr will release larger 2x2, 4x4 or 8x8 traps or prefab rooms like a fan corridor (to push back raiders).
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There are exclusive pre-order skins
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Pretty good start.
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I'd say start with 5. The outbreak, when everything goes to crap. it works for zombie movies.
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@CotePathos said:
Harvey's path is already customizable, just put second wave holo/acid blocks in your floor to block it.
I think I tried that and it gave me the path is blocked unless it was a bug.
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These polls have some loaded questions but I don't think harvey stilfes creativity as much as folks think he does.
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Expanding the rating system for outposts seems pretty dope idea, would definitely help raiders find challenging bases and builders to grade thier bases.
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@Redbeard_Steel said:
This is an awesome idea all around. I would want to add cosmetics based on the factions too (suit & base cosmetics). Granted I'm unsure how that would look for most, I'd love Manticore to be some sort of plant cosmetics (or even traps based on like, man eating plants, since they want to return nature but not humanity). It'd also be an easy, lore-friendly way to add in other color palettes that wouldn't make sense in this apocalypse otherwise.
Thanks.
Feel free to add any other faction ideas.
I was thinking of another faction whose motivations could lean towards cybernetics a la matrix. They want genmats to create living batteries but offers the player an eternity in paradise.
Offering could be something like turret traps or something.
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@Redbeard_Steel said:
Ideally a price too. Nearly a month to launch, and maybe I missed it somehow, but no price listed anywhere.
Assume $60, base game.
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I personally feel if the devs introduce a pvp mode, that it should be with pre-constructed Outposts that players can add traps to. I think recall seeing this in the short-lived mmorpg wildstar.
The concern is that folks could simply AFK pvp, with their "cheese" set ups to let the base handle the kills.
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@Entchenklein said:
Outpost Modifiers are randomly rolled once you buy a Outpost map
Every map Starts with 1 Modifier and gets more Modifiers the higher the Prestiege Level 3 Modifiers at Prestiege Level 10
Every Modifier can be rerolled by spending some Scrap Material (Rerolling might should have a limit or not be Rerollable at all so you can not pick all the modifiers you like or fit your current setup)
Modifiers are limitations for the builder that give aditional income to the builder if fulfilled for example +10% income per Player kill
If a Modifier is fulfilled The Attacking player gets notified about the Modifier
Example Modifiers:
- Only 3 Types of Traps Allowed +20% Income
- No Upgrade Perks Allowed for Traps +20% Income
- No Upgrade Perks Allowed for Guards +20% Income
- Harvester Path has to be as short as possible +30% Income
- No (Insert Trap Here) Allowed +5% Income
- No (Insert Guard Here) Allowed +10% Income
- Only 5 Traps per Type Allowed +50% Income
- Bigger Harvester (Harvester needs 2 spaces instead of 1) +30% Income
- No Guards Allowed +50% Income
- No Traps Allowed +50% Income
- No Traps or Guards Allowed near the DNA +20% Income
- Traps trigger 30% slower +50% Income
The general idear of this modifiers is to encourage different base designs as well as having different ways to attack a base by knowing the limitations the base is under
Not sure I would like the idea of being forced a negative effect when getting a burial ground. I feels like it would force builders to grind as raiders to continously reroll their maps until they find the one they want.
The idea you suggested, modifiers for map, is fine though, perhaps it should be an option the builder can add to thier base right. With the benefit, that these downside will give you extra prestige, or resources from each kill or something.
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@MetalCrow said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BU7ETZVJEL49/themeta.png
It seems kinda like this is the objectively best base design. You can't shoot everyone because of limited ammo (not to mention bullet drop makes it hard to aim far), you can't grapple and kill people because there are too many projectiles, same reason you can't just run up it. Am i missing some counter?
The one disadvantage to it is that it sucks hard and is super unfun, but idk how to use that against it.
Sword, shield, and bubble shield drops then grapple like hell regardless if the map is vertical or horizontal.
You still die a few times but once you get the timing right these maps become a little more straight-forward.
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@Entchenklein said:
Not Really Traps more like funktioning blocks that help the map creator to let raiders skip long boring routs
- Teleporter: Instantly teleports The Raider to the Linked teleporter Teleporters are color coded aka first teleporter pair is Red next Yellow and so on the harvester does not take the teleporter so there still has to be a different way asides the teleporter
- Speed Pad: Increases the raiders Speed for a short time when running over it
These feel more raider consumables, as i can see myself using these teleport or rush a player straight into another trap, lol, good ideas though.
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@Redbeard_Steel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3346697#Comment_3346697
Long as it's not an infinite use (or have a mod to increase the stun time) and like the impaler in that it's short range, it'd be annoying, but I could handle that.
I was thinking more like folks putting like 50 in one room, like the lava cubes.
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@Rook982 said:
Like your idea of a Gust Trap, I was thinking of something like a Shockwave Trap as well. If there is a trap that pulls, there should also be a trap that pushes.
Then the mimic trap or a decoy trap, does nothing but looks like a normal trap, something that catches a player's attention.
Ooo. A shock trap on the ceiling would be totally dope perhaps instead of killing the raider though the trap just stuns them for a second. I can already see that trap being abused.
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Another "weapon" idea.
Grappling hook upgrade idea - harpoon.
Destroys traps and pulls stuns and guards but can no longer zip through the level. Infinite uses but cooldown to use (similar to shield)
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I like the idea of pressure plates and light barriers as triggers for traps, like having bolts fire down a hallway after the raider trips the first trap. It won't stop cheese-bases or speedrunners imo.
To combat stop cheese-base, devs gave raiders gear like the shield. To combat speed runners, devs gave builders unrestricted ability to place as many traps in an area. This will be the balance the devs and we [players] have signed on for. Traps to combat equipment and vice versa.
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Holo-cube upgrade idea, phase -through -allows harvey to pass through the block. It have incompatible with upgrades, like soild block or second wave, but it would open up the option for people to make false paths.
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@clownkrieger said:
Ok i am a builder, only raided first two days to get it going, so i dont really know what the majority of outposts out there look like. Can you guys tell me what the "only certain way" to design an outpost is and why there is no room for parcour/complex movement?
In the replays i watch daily (some of) my players are like crazy bunnies that hop arround everywhere and find shortcuts even i havent thought of or holes i didnt realize while building. I build (most of) my maps quite open though and with opportunities to take cover (i use a lot of guards usually), i want the player to speed up, build up pressure, and drive them into making mistakes (or trigger more guards than is good for him - even my guards have quite complex movement options on some maps). After all i want to see some fancy replays and not people slogging for half an hour through a tunnel afraid of traps behind every corner lol.
Also i want my players to be able to beat my maps, its nice to get some kills out of them, but after all we are all here to have fun, right? Some of my maps are like no challenge for skilled people or speedrunners (but usually fun, or they appreciate the traps i set up/architecture/whatever, i can see that in the ratings), and i am fine with that - i really enjoy seeing someone who knows what he does blasting through my map and escape.
Imo the problem is a certain gamer mentality, and not the harvey mechanic. Removing harvey would only allow for more bad/unfun stuff to be published. Beating your own map could be easily cheesed here as well, i pointed that out in the other thread. Also: I sometimes load into a map to change a single block for aesthetic reasons. You want me to run my whole thing again after that? And yea, im better in building than raiding, i would have to find some cheese ways for me to complete my own designs on some of them, or it would just bee too timeconsuming and unfun for myself otherwise.
If "beat your own map before publishing" becomes a rule, im out...
If the harvey mechanic is enough to ensure that the map is beatable then I'm ok with not requiring the creator to beat the map to publish.
The mentality behind "beat your own map" I feel is because some of the designs I have seen seem to be super cheese and frustrating; adding this function it would say to raiders "yes, this map is beatable" and maybe display the time it took the creator to beat and/or the average time other raiders took to beat the outpost.
Granted there is no true to avoid dairy products in games, especially those that give creative control to players.
That said, I do feel like long term there needs to be more incentive to continue raiding other than a ranking system like unlocking more suits, cosmetics or a story mode (not sure how this would work with the current set up) because I see no reason to raid after I unlock all the current options.
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I don't think a cost to publish should be needed. I feel we are only getting the rushed feeling because the beta is almost over. So, no. No cost to publish an outpost.
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This was argued in this thread and probably other too.
@clownkrieger said:
From the last steam news on the MyM page, just saw:
"While an Outpost grants no rewards when it’s in the Social Active State, this custom game mode affords some extra flexibility – neither minimum defenses nor a valid Harvester path are required."
Thought about that today while messing with the social feature, you can see beforehand if there is a harvey path or not.
Even if the dev required players to beat their own designs to publish (and the they should), harvey will still be needed to ensure the map is "playable"... playable in the sense you won't have a player wandering aimlessly for hours trying to figure your outpost. The raiding part of MYM is a looter shooter and LSs thrive face-pace gameplay.
Harvey enforces better level design by forcing the builder to take the path in account. Mario maker doesn't need a harvey because the goal post is almost always to the right, to the right, to the right, not the left, not the left, not the left, not the left, now kick, now kick...err... of the level.
Now I hope the devs do allow more options for harvey, like an upgrade that enable him to upwards using the slope cube.
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@_RupTurE_ said:
I just use melee when I see that. I ran into it once and then learned how to beat it. It's not bad imo, part of the learning process.
I have seen it the "floor is lava" builds where the guy is across the room, you can't zipping to melee for various reasons but if you shoot him he ragdolls away with your bolt in the sea of Corrosive cubes.
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@Viktoriusiii said:
but... again... that is why accolades need to matter. Let players decide what map is fun and which isnt.
Built a stupid endless maze with only one correct path? 0 Accolades "Not Fun"; dont get recommended.
Or even better: show us the accolades of a map beforehand. So we can choose to ignore it. "50 plays, 1 finished raid and 5 accolades, all saying "brutal"? Yeah nah I'm good mate."
I grant you the following: If it is not intended for players to actually know beforehand if a map is good, then sure... harvey is an evil necessity to keep even more exploits and unfun mechanics being built.
But if you want to have a variety of different maps and actually have fun for a long time (many players, me included have already burnt out after 2 weeks because it is the same basetype over and over and over and over and over and over and over... I think I have seen nearly every baseidea. 95% of all maps are the same narrow corridor with misleading traps, or exploitbases. Only twice was I actually pleasantly surprised by a maptype.
- incentivise accolades through better rewards
- let players see stats (how often was it played, completed and how often did they die. basicially what the creator can already see) accolades (for free!) when chosing the map
- let us reviewbomb maps that use exploits or simply unfun mechanics (negative accolades and blocking the map so it doesnt show up again)
- better difficulty parameter. Only deaths per sucessful raid should count. Why do I care if there are 500 corrosive cubes? But 10 traps and guards are enough to stop nearly everyone.
that way exploitative bases and crappy mapdesign will automaticially be disincentivised.
Also custom challenges would be awesome. Like "beat this map within 50 seconds" or "deflect 3 traps within 8 seconds" or something... even a boring map can be fun with extra challenges :)
Not disagreeing ... accolades should matter and they do matter...sometimes. They just aren't enough to disincentivize bad level designs. Like how many negative votes is needed to remove the outpost from the pool of playable maps? 10, 15, 500 votes? All the while the builder still gains resources from the map until its removed. Then they could simply make a new map, same design and back in the system it goes.
Then there is the long term effect, when more folks get into the grind mentality, especially since MYM is about collecting resources either by building or raiding.
In time, builders will design their outpost to get the most kills whereas raiders will most likely care about speed runs and ranking. With a worst case result, of lots almost impossible outposts from builders and/or lots of down votes from speed runners unless they deliberately quiting the raid if they spend more than 2 or 3 minutes on an outpost, if they dont skip voting altogether.
All this to say, that harvey and rng maps are great ways to force less homogenized designs for at least until we learn how cheese it. Removing both of these limitors would create more unfun designs because everyone wants to build a gotcha /lost woods base... people are not as uniquely creative as they think they are.
To the original poster, adding more upgrade options to harvey is probably more worthwhile, like enabling him to climb up walls, go stealth or attack the raider if they get to close than creating a custom path.
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Does the ability to move objects in build-mode if can we add that to the list? Not a fan of deleting a guard or trap then readding it with all mods again. I understand guards need to have the patrol recorded.
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Adding to your list but some of these aren't traps or guard ideas per say.
Gate traps and key items - basically a block that blocks a player unless the player has a key. The block still allows harvey unrestricted access. Keys can either be collected via a genmat-like terminal or via a drop froma guard. This would require something to help prevent builders from blocking access to these items or build misleading pathways, like what harvey does for the main objective.
Harvester upgrade - ability to climb up walls.
Harvester upgrade - aggressive collector. Harvester attacks the raider if they get to close.
Harvester upgrade - stealth. Harvey becomes invisible for 5 seconds, if the raider gets close.
Treasure block - adds value to outpost. This idea is to replace the override concept and forsaken tomb by allowing players the ability to place the tombs but at the cost of losing genmats, similar to activating the outpost via override. if they are gathered the tombs and successful raided the outpost then you lose material but if your post is raided but treasure abandon then its no loss to the builder. A value icon could be displayed on the outpost map with the goal to entice more players to raid your map. Granted a few things to ensure the treasure is accessible to the raider would need to be implemented, like a different kind of collector, etc.
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I have yet to encounter a cannonback guard but I agree armor is freaking strong in this game. I'm not sure if there is a weapon upgrade that makes armor easy but it's definitely annoying fighting a group of them packed together.
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I have tried incorporating forgotten tombs into my designs as best as I can. Rerouting Harvey to swing pass the tomb if possible, just so people aren't wasting time exploring nothingness, and if I can't I decorate the tomb with banners so they have find it and move on - don't get me wrong I will throw a trap or two near the tomb if I can (evil laugh).
I kinda wish tombs were options like traps that the builders can place down instead of random ones perhaps with its own harvey to ensure its accessible.
Continuing off the same idea, a new value icon could be displayed to show off high value outposts. I feel like this could be used instead of overdrive.
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Limited number of revives isn't too terrible for duo, better than giving traps a free retrigger because it's 2 players.
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I don't like idea of making harvey optional in outpost build. This would create a situation with folks making endless labyrinths with many false pathways and dead-ends. Forcing a player in an outpost to take 30+ minutes; I can see myself being lead down the wrong way with a minium number of traps just to throw me off.
Personally I feel like having harvey and having the creator beat the outpost should be required to help avoid impossible ones.
For more build variety the devs could introduce the following a gate trap with keys. The idea is its a block that blocks the player but allows harvey to pass through unless the player collects a key. Keys can be a pick up item like the Genmat or a designated guard via a mod. Of course like the main objective, key would need a clear path to obtain - perhaps circuit wiring, if an item.
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I feel like perhaps there should be a perk that recharges your ammo after sometime (maybe restore one ammo after 30 or 60 seconds, but lose an amount of resources collected) or after destroying a few traps.
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@clownkrieger said:
Thats a good suggestion, but you can actually load into the outpost and exit again and all gets autocollected - game doesnt tell you though (beforehand) and i wasted a lot of time collecting and searching that stuff initially myself lol
A button directly on the build-interface would still be nice though!
Oh thank goodness, you can skip collecting. It was getting to me.