bunnyfengenthusiast
bunnyfengenthusiast
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How would this offering change people tunneling and BMing on hook?
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COB and Overcharge are mostly fine imo. Overcharge is pretty weak assuming there's a survivor constantly harassing a gen and hitting the skill check (which any good survivor should be able to do consistently). Eruption is definitely very strong, especially in solo Q, where it's near impossible to tell when someone's about to go down. 10% regression on top of 25s of being completely useless is very strong. If anything, the % regression should go up and the incapacitated should go down; something like 15-10 is a lot more reasonable.
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I do agree that tunneling and camping need to be addressed, but this is also a team game. In being camped and tunneled, and also cleansing ToTH and Devour, you basically gave your team a 3-out. That's a win in my book.
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Dear god no. Hatch already functions as a mechanic to allow the last survivor a chance to escape from an impossible situation (assuming killer doesn't slug for 4k). As long as the gates have any measure of distance between them, and/or the killer isn't a high mobility killer, you can literally hide by a gate, wait for the killer to patrol it, then open it fully before they have time to come back. Or, better yet, you can bring perks or items that let you find hatch, or even a key to open the closed hatch after killer closes it.
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The bunny hoodie generator made me laugh out loud
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No offense, but this sounds like some big time entitlement. You're upset that a game is evolving, getting balanced, getting more content, simply because you didn't experience it first hand as it released and instead experienced it in a single large wave after breaks in gameplay? The alternative would be for the game to remain stale with no new content added and no rebalancing patches. Either way, despite all the new stuff, Nurse still dominates the meta, and most of the balance is tip-toed around her. Nothing's changed.
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@Random_NPC said:
While I agree that it is a major pain in the ass, unnecessary and outdated, it doesn't take anywhere near 30 minutes to go through 2M
You can do it in 10 minutes.
Make the nodes insta-buy on click instead of having to wait for the node to fill. Jund just made a video on it explaining how you would effectively spend upwards to 14 hours just doing bloodwebs in order to p100 a single character.
Bloodweb is the real gameplay of DBD. Trials are just a minigame.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258367#Comment_3258367
We already have bots... Why would we need afk/disappearance? Just let bot play for say 30-60s and only remove the player if he fails to rejoin in that time
My first thought was the same thing they commented: players DC when they're in trouble. That said, it's true that with the addition of bots, there's really no excuse for a team to be down 25% of its manpower because someone didn't like the color of the floor as soon as they spawned in. And it gives a buffer for anyone that may have accidentally disconnected to come back. At least, the bots know to do gens.
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It's interesting, I was just discussing this with someone recently. I had the idea of either making Ruin not a hex perk (aka constant 75-100% regression on gens that aren't being worked on), or buffing the regression speed. As it stands, it's a minor annoyance to survivors more than anything. All it essentially boils down to currently is the killer can pressure an area near a gen, and the gen will regress at normal speed without the killer having to kick it (meaning survivors can't tap the gen to stop regression). It's simply not worth running in its current configuration, especially with how unprotected it is without Undying. Would it really be so bad to have that slowdown not tied to a fragile hex?
Otherwise, I wouldn't be opposed to straight up buffing the numbers back to 150-200%. Old Ruin was especially busted because it could be paired with old Undying, which was an objective of its own. New Undying is much less oppressive, and the presence of Ruin can be confirmed within seconds of a game by just tapping a gen and seeing if it regresses. Call of Brine provides a 200% slowdown, as well as acting like an info perk when it's canceled out, and isn't tied to a Hex totem and only actively requires the killer to kick a gen. Is it really so bad to have a 150% regression tied to a Hex? Current Ruin is only "useful" on certain niche builds, like Ruin+Surveillance on a high-pressure killer like Artist, and even then, it's objectively inferior to any other gen reg perk configuration.
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Depends on what you mean by balanced. I've seen arguments made for Nurse being the most balanced killer at the top levels.
@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258292#Comment_3258292
Hell no! Blight needs a nerf urgently he's not the "most balanced". That'd probably go to demopupper or billy in trained hands.
In what way is basekit Blight broken in any way? I'll agree that C33 and Alch Ring are some of the strongest addons in the game, but the rest of his kit is completely fine.
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From the Void She Kills is ridiculously hard to do. At least, Outbreak Breakout is just grindy. So is The Man Behind the Bush. From the Void She Kills requires you to use Torn Bookmark, AND get lucky enough to get a grab on a clueless enough survivor that didn't run as soon as he heard nurse teleporting close to him.
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There are definitely some aspects of Wesker that I think are overtuned: Hindered puts a time limit on any chase as soon as you get hit, because moving at 91% speed is a death sentence no matter how good your looping is. Remaining infected off the hook incentivizes tunneling so much. The hitbox on his grab is still very wonky, especially when ping is involved. And him getting a notification when someone uses a spray is a big glowing "tunnel me" sign that the person that just got unhooked is ready to be targeted again. Also, the Video Conference addon that speeds up passive infection is far too powerful. It needs to either have its numbers dropped or be a purple.
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QnQ is fine, it makes even less noise than slow vaulting. Adrenaline is also fine, it's an endgame perk. Not every perk needs to give you value every second of the match. OTR/DS give no value if killer doesn't tunnel, Wake Up gives no value if you don't open a gate, Prove gives no value if you solo all gens and so on.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Trickster doesn't belong in the 110% category of character. He may be a projectile-based character, but the Power that he has doesn't justify him being a 110% character because it's too weak.
Look at characters like Clown, Plague, Executioner, Twins, Nemesis, Cenobite and Artist, mid-to-long ranged Killers that have their own projectile or projectile-like ability, and they are all 115%.
Look at characters like Blight and Mastermind, who have high-mobility moves that grant them a burst of speed for great distances, and they are 115%.
These are characters that are objectively better than Trickster, and they all have the ability to move at the normal Killer movement speed. It doesn't make sense. Even the other projectile Killers like Huntress and Deathslinger get more inherent value due to them only requiring one hit to actually do damage.
Just because The Trickster has the ability to throw knives and possibly injure people from afar--an extremely unlikely event in and of itself--doesn't mean he should be 110%. If anything, him needing to hit 6 knives in order to injure a Survivor should justify him being a 115% Killer, since his power takes time to get value from it, and he loses significant distance the longer he holds the power.
There's no reason to keep The Trickster at 110%. He should be a 115% Killer.
None of the killers you listed are mid-to-long range. Artist is a short range killer with a long range harassment option. She has a very tight window to get a follow up to actually hit. Trickster is 110% because he has an actual projectile that can injure and down from any distance, as long as he has line of sight. Killer movement speeds aren't set by some arbitrary standard of how far they can injure someone from; they're based on balance. A Nurse moving at 110% with double blinks would be busted. A spirit moving at 115% with her power would be far too strong, and so on.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257054#Comment_3257054
This argument is about acknowlidging CoH is strong - but saying survivors should be allowed to have strong perks too. Or to rephrase it so that it's about CoH only - survivors should also be able to keep current CoH effect.
Many games were lost by survivors trying to keep that boon up instead of doing gens. CoH is still rather slow and if we don't count ironworks map - inefficient to use if killer knows it's place
The issue here is the perk is far too strong considering the fact survivors can bring 16 perks, vs the killer's 4.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353918/from-sadako-with-love
I think these are actually some fair points. I think your buffs make quite a lot of sense - there is just 1 last issue I have with this killer.
Having larger radius and more often tv's to spam ability creates new problem with her. Survivors that get fully condemned but can't get rid of the condemn even if actively trying. I already found the issue with iri tv refresh addon and sadako that spammed her ability. First she built stacks quicker then I could loose them if I went to middle (to unhook) second I could not get to active tv ever - because they never stayed inactive for more then 3s and you can't pick the tape from it if it's already off.
Meaning buffing tv's the way you proposed would not create Wesker-like slowdown you just can't ignore. It's more like buffing both iri addon meyers to get to kill phase quicker. I am all for the first option as the killer really needs it. I don't like the second one
It's specifically why I also mentioned to add a second TV objective (so that she can't just camp out one), as well as nerf the Iri Tape slightly. I've never been a fan of the spam teleport Sadako playstyle, I prefer when her teleport is used more tactically to funnel survivors into, or to stop gen progression, or to just traverse the map faster.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3257040#Comment_3257040
There are many things that are much more powerful on killer side and they don't look like they will go away. I mean give me one reasonable alternative how to solo heal and CoH will never exist for me. It used to be old SC for me when the timing was 32s. But that one was called killer's perk already - yet devs nerfed it even more. If I get any 1 perk alternative that would be at least as good as old SC, then I don't care about CoH and it can go away.
Actually it already exists, but I presume killers will not be happy if I bring purple medkit with built to last into game every time. I like addonless brown medkits more and CoH going up only if I need it
There are many things that are much more powerful on killer side and they don't look like they will go away
I've said this before and I'm getting tired of saying it, but this isn't the thread to be hashing up issues with killer or playing whataboutism. We're discussing COH, strictly COH, and ONLY COH. If you personally believe there are issues with killer, you're more than welcome to make a thread about it, and I will read it, and I will give my opinion on it, but this isn't the place for it.
I mean give me one reasonable alternative how to solo heal and CoH will never exist for me
Medkits, Self Care. Medkits are limited in charge and Self Care takes a long time. Both of them are "balanced" in that aspect in that they don't let survivors reset in a vacuum.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256919#Comment_3256919
Because survivors (especially soloQ) need solo heals. Otherwise you will never heal at all. Meaning it's medkits (limited & counterable), inner healing/pharmacy (very limited and pray you are alone in this idea) or self care - and sloppy hurts SC the most
Maybe at the lowest levels. Even without any info perks to keep tabs on fellow survivors, it's not excessively hard to figure out where at least one of your teammates will be. The issue we're discussing here is specifically how powerful solo heals are, with COH being the worst offender.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
- I'm all for Newspaper being basekit, but doing that and letting Newspaper keep its current (albeit weaker) effect is too much. You would flicker between 1.2 seconds of invisibility and 0.5 seconds of visibility. I would instead have it so that it makes manifesting/demanifesting happen 20% faster (1.5 seconds to 1.25 seconds).
- Here is where we have identified the same problem but differing solutions. I would instead reduce her teleport cooldown to 40 seconds, or since you dislike teleport spam, make it 60 seconds but -5 seconds for every survivor with condemnation. Encourage survivors to disable TVs rather than risk getting chased and eating a single condemned stack.
- VCR... okay, fair enough. Nothing more to really say.
- To 20m or 24m is fine. Increasing by 20m is far too much since that's a total of 36m of coverage, which especially on smaller maps such as Gideon/Midwich is just absurdly broken.
- Upping TVs available to be inserted is fair. Being able to camp a TV to get a kill is a bit asinine. I would, however, tweak the logic of how those TVs are picked. Currently, it could be a TV just a short trek away or it could be across the map. I'd rather it'd be more consistent.
For 3, I meant increase TO 20m, but yeah. As far as Old Newspaper being basekit and ALSO being an addon, I'm entirely fine with a 1.2-0.5 configuration, considering it lasts a few seconds. That being said, Old Newspaper would need to go up in rarity to a yellow/green.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353918/from-sadako-with-love
Alternatively instead if doing all this they could just make condemn build passively while near an active tv
That would change the dynamic of her power. Now, survivors automatically take off the tape and do gens.
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@Yoshirama said:
People ask to nerf the only good healing perk and then run sloppy butcher in every match smh
How would removing the self-care aspect of COH but buffing the altruistic aspect benefit sloppy in any way? In fact, it does the opposite, it makes sloppy weaker because you now heal faster in a boon.
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I personally love running this addon on Pinhead because of the extra slowdown+canceling out Dead Hard/styptic/OTR, but yeah, you can definitely use it to tunnel someone disgustingly easily. That said, I don't think it's outrageously broken in that regard, especially considering how few Pinheads even run it.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256127#Comment_3256127
So you want the perk killed. Got it.
Self-care part is the most important part about the perk. Boost to altruistic healing is nice bonus, but not really needed. It would need to give 1000% bonus heal speed and I still would most likely not take it (not until it's very close to pallet stun timing being enough to heal someone and keep that health state). Still it would be huge step down
The self-care part is precisely the problematic aspect of it. The speed of healing could also be problematic (if, say, it lets teammates heal each other in 4 seconds), but being able to infinitely and independently reset without a medkit and remove all pressure that a killer can build up by injuring you is simply far too strong.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255854#Comment_3255854
Against any other killer I would agree. But wesker can bound hit you. Which means yo need to heal and in some time also cure (double slowdown). The more vials you used, the longer it takes - until you can't cure any more. And when you get fully infected, it's almost gg. Looping is almost impossible.
For every other killer you can split to all 3 gens and even if most progressed gen regresses, the other 2 will progress more. But wesker with his bound provides extra slowdown that you can't just ignore. Until you cure those other gens will regress way more.
So you need to break it immediatelly, or you must be better looper (never getting m2 hit in this case is huge) or you need to rush those gens somehow (like mentioned BNP). If it takes too long, you loose. This is the opposite to any other killer.
And if you need to steal your teammates time (because this whole thread)... You can go offer yourself to killer to save 30+ mins of boring match you can't win anyway.
If you're getting hit by his bound, that means he's committing to a chase, meaning your teammates are getting gen progression. If he's not committing, it means you shouldn't get hit by his bound. Pretty simple.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255848#Comment_3255848
Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced, and other exhaustion perks are also "uncounterable" (as in, the killer has no counterplay beyond extending the chase once they're used).
First of all, they have clear disadvantages to survivors themselves - so even if it was uncounterable, there are negatives which survivor has to endure. Starting with maps, and ending with conditions. The negatives are not comparable to DH as it can be used pretty much universally on most maps and requires a pallet.
Second of all, there is more counterplay than you seem to acknowledge.
Sprint Burst - you can drop chase immediately when they let go of gen and sprint burst and then come back again with minimal repercussions.
Balanced Landing - you can zone people off high points/chase them in certain areas where they cannot proc it (you can't zone dead hard, there is no such thing)
Lithe - same story with BL, except that you can also make them take bad pathing after their vault which means that they get little to no value of it (you can't zone dead hard, and most paths that they can take after pallet are still decent for them because there are more pallets than windows and usually pallets are placed in better positions than windows for further routing)
Lastly, you also seem to ignore the fact that a lot of exhaustion perks are used before the first hit is delivered. Sprint burst, balanced landing and lithe are usually used before the first hit. Dropping a chase in such scenarios is much less expensive to the killer, than chasing + getting a hit + dead hard proc + dropping chase. It's not even comparable. The closest you can compare this is if you hold 99 Sprint Burst which is used very rarely. In that case, I agree that it's on equal footing with dead hard in terms of time waste.
The old reliable "I'm a better player so I know more" when you have no real arguments left
You haven't answered any other arguments, why should I provide new ones?
We're done here, you're not interested in a conversation, you just want someone to confirm your beliefs and tell you that it's the evil Dead Hard that's causing you to lose chases/games. You have a severe negativity bias clouding your judgement and it's severely affecting how you think about the perk
Why would I want you to confirm my beliefs when I don't even acknowledge you as someone who has experience at the top level? XD It literally does not matter if you agree with me or not, all I care about is a logical discussion. 10/10 projections though.
And while DH is very strong and overly used, it doesn't lose me games most of the time - DS probably lost me more games % wise. It's simply an unfun perk with an unfun uncounterable mechanic attached to it that is picked excessively. A free 3rd health state is a disgusting mechanic that is still alive somehow after so-called "rework". Do other exhaustion perks also waste my time? Absolutely, but there are fair negatives attached to them and conditions in which they can be used thus I never complained about them in my 4 years of playing this game. Not only you have to constantly take the L with Dead Hard because of 0 counterplay, but you also have to always care for this perk "in case they have it" meaning you waste at least 2-4 seconds naturally on every down. It's a disgusting perk that needs to be either removed from the game or completely reworked.
Why did you bother typing all this up when you knew in advance I wasn't gonna read it? Is it really that important for you to have the final word to feel like you won? Fine, go ahead and get the last word in.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255684#Comment_3255684
No longer true. Wesker with iri addon and 4 regressions can camp his 3gen from beginning (giving you 4 gens for free) and still win the game.
This can be countered with prediction (take BNP on good toolbox, don't use it until 3gen is identified), being better chaser by very huge margin, or having cracked reflexes and using hyperfocus to full benefit.
Overall usually vials will run out, self heals will run out, but ability and regressions will stay. It's going to be very long match, but wesker will win
Breaking a 3-gen should be very easy for any competent team of survivors, even if they're not on comms, as long as they understand to immediately get on a gen when killer loses aggro and to leave when he picks up aggro again. Even with COB, a killer's regression time is half as valuable as a single survivor's time on a gen. Either way, this isn't the thread to be discussing the balance of regression perks.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255302#Comment_3255302
I'll say this once more then never again because I don't like repeating myself: if you're smacking a survivor with Dead Hard endurance, that's 100% a skill issue on your end.
You are correct if the assumption is that I go against the same survivors as you do - i.e. baby survivors. Totally agreed in such case.
I'm not interested in discussing hypothetical ideals in regards to a practical scenario, but as an anecdote, I've walked through a lot of pallets against seasoned survivors that expected me to swing at the drop and used DH instead, then got a down immediately after.
DH used at pallets with accurate timing is uncounterable for most of the killers, period. Watch some top-level survivor players and see it for yourself if you never experienced it in your own games. You can look into the killer's POV and into survivor's POV and the conclusion is the same.
Considering no one can tell what their own MMR is currently, I'd say the "I play against better survivors than you" is a pretty sad non-argument. If I really wanted to be petty, I'd just flip your logic on its head and call you bad for eating Dead Hards, but I'm not gonna sink that low. Let's try to keep this objective and impersonal, yeah?
Nothing personal, but you can't seem to grasp how dead hard can be used to its full potential which probably means that you have never seen it actually used in that way. This probably also means that you don't play against good survivors. I'm sure Dead Hard in your game looks like a D-tier perk as I can picture survivors just doing most predictable dead hards constantly, but that is not the case on my end. And calling it a "skill issue" is so completely ignorant considering you've never experienced good survivors using it thus who are you to judge what is "skilful" and what is not? The mechanic that I am talking about is very prevalent in top-level play so why does it take so long for me to explain it to you? Pick any top-tier killer streamer and they will get dumped by dead hards constantly even if they are all great players.
Then eat the pallet. You get rid of one pallet and they lose their DH. That's their exhaustion perk out of the way, that you don't have to worry about being a Lithe that'll send them to the other side of the world when they vault a window, or Overcome that will send them running for 10 hours, or a 99'd SB that they'll pop right as you get close, or Balanced that will get them out of an unsafe window vault/drop. You're going out of your way to make special exceptions for why DH specifically is poorly balanced somehow compared to the other exhaustion perks, when the simple fact of the matter is it objectively provides less value than the others, by simple virtue of its value being conditional.
Are you seriously suggesting for killer just take L and accept that he got outplayed by an uncounterable mechanic? Maybe we should add something the same for survivors - that would be funny to see the reactions. We would call it a "skilful outplay".
You really remind me of those players who suggest that it's fine if survivors pre-drop the pallets since you keep destroying them. Soon they will have no pallets left and you can win the game! It's that simple LOL!
Also, your comparison to other exhaustion perks is very ignorant. All other exhaustion perks have clear negatives to them (thus why they are balanced). DH doesn't have such clear negatives as other perks.
Sprint Burst - has the constraint of constantly having to walk
Lithe - requires windows or dropped pallets + good positioning + constraint of having to leave the loop
Balanced Landing - requires a high point + delay before its activated
Dead Hard - requires pallet? The pallet requirement is so insignificant compared to 3 other things. Finding a pallet is easier than finding a window (a good window too), and much easier than finding a high point to jump from. That's not even talking about the fact that you can also additionally use dead hard against certain killer powers easily.
I'd play against Sprint Burst/Balanced Landing/Lithe all day compared to DH just purely because they have much more counterplay than DH does. You can telegraph those exhaustion perks rather easily and they have specific conditions with which they can only work with (minus SB, but SB is overrated). DH can be telegraphed too, but there is nothing you can do in certain situations about it. For all other exhaustion perks, you have some counterplay by cutting their path, or anticipating when they are going to use it and blocking the conditions.
You are correct if the assumption is that I go against the same survivors as you do - i.e. baby survivors. Totally agreed in such case.
Aaaand there it is. The old reliable "I'm a better player so I know more" when you have no real arguments left. We're done here, you're not interested in a conversation, you just want someone to confirm your beliefs and tell you that it's the evil Dead Hard that's causing you to lose chases/games. You have a severe negativity bias clouding your judgement and it's severely affecting how you think about the perk. You're making a special exception for how DH is uncounterable (because it can be set up in a way that it will give guaranteed value) without considering that Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced, and other exhaustion perks are also "uncounterable" (as in, the killer has no counterplay beyond extending the chase once they're used). But good luck trying to get anyone to take you seriously with that attitude.
As a parting note, I'll leave you with this thought: even if Dead Hard's sole mechanic was reworked to give you those extra 10 inches to reach a pallet safely, removing all its other possible utility altogether, it would still be completely fine. Stew on that for a while.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255297#Comment_3255297
Self care takes a long time to heal already at 35%, imagine that at 30%
Yes COH would be a trash tier perk just from that and everyone would pick self care instead, especially since u have to set the boon up every time the killer snuffs it. It would be idiotic to run it outside of meme builds. It has limited range as well unlike botany too
Self care takes a long time to heal already at 35%, imagine that at 30%
That is precisely why I picked 30%. If you're getting the ability to infinitely reset the pressure a killer is establishing, it shouldn't be more time-efficient than finding a teammate to heal you. I would much rather have lobbies running 4x Self-Care and healing for 42 seconds in the corner, knowing that's 4 perks I don't have to worry about being something else, than a lobby running COH, self-healing in 32 seconds, and the only way to stop it is for me to drop everything I'm doing and go play treasure hunt with the boon.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255053#Comment_3255053
It's an objective fact that DH, which gives conditional value, gives objectively less value than SB/Lithe, or even Balanced, which gives guaranteed value. The only exhaustion perk I would place below DH is Smash Hit, and that's because it's also conditional value, contingent on the killer eating a pallet. I can't speak for why people run DH, I can only speak for why I (occasionally) run it.
So you're saying the most picked perk in the game (not only amongst exhaustion perks but also amongst ALL PERKS) is highly situational and niche. What's the logic there? So DH:
1 Is hard to use compared to other exhaustion perks (community words)
2 Requires a lot of skill (community words)
3 Is situational and doesn't bring value as often as one would think (your words)
And yet this perk dominates across exhaustion perks, and across ALL other perks. We've had 3 months to figure out the meta, and you think the community still overwhelmingly picks high-skill floor, highly situational and moderate reward perk? Something doesn't align here buddy. What you're saying is the community is dumb, doesn't recognize that DH doesn't give relatively constant value and should choose other exhaustion perks to cause they are more useful on average.
And that's specifically why I mentioned that as the exception for when DH has no counterplay. Even then, I'd say there is some counterplay, in the form of not respecting the pallet and not swinging at the DH.
You eat pallet stun then.
It works 9/10 times for me. The other 1/10 times is someone playing extra safe that will DH AND drop the pallet. Even then, if we consider DH with its only objective value being giving you a speed boost if you manage to get hit through a pallet, that's still objectively less value than SB/Lithe.
Idk what MMR you're playing but in my games, players know they can use DH to either gain sprint burst or stun the killer. Seems like survivors on your level just can't use DH properly.
Consider the following: stop making your "waiting" for DH so blatant. Sometimes, I'll know for a fact a survivor has it, and I'll still swing after waiting a half second, because they never expect it. DbD is a game that is entirely based around mindgames, you can mindgame just about anything, to include the timing on a DH.
Yeah I swing too sometimes because I know they have DH and they're not looking behind for example. I know that scenario well and used it to my advantage. With that being said, such cases happen rarely. Most of the common use case is where you MUST swing or you eat a pallet.
And yet this perk dominates across exhaustion perks, and across ALL other perks. We've had 3 months to figure out the meta, and you think the community still overwhelmingly picks high-skill floor, highly situational and moderate reward perk? Something doesn't align here buddy. What you're saying is the community is dumb, doesn't recognize that DH doesn't give relatively constant value and should choose other exhaustion perks to cause they are more useful on average.
I'll say this once more then never again because I don't like repeating myself: if you're smacking a survivor with Dead Hard endurance, that's 100% a skill issue on your end.
You eat pallet stun then.
I'm not interested in discussing hypothetical ideals in regards to a practical scenario, but as an anecdote, I've walked through a lot of pallets against seasoned survivors that expected me to swing at the drop and used DH instead, then got a down immediately after.
Idk what MMR you're playing but in my games, players know they can use DH to either gain sprint burst or stun the killer. Seems like survivors on your level just can't use DH properly.
Considering no one can tell what their own MMR is currently, I'd say the "I play against better survivors than you" is a pretty sad non-argument. If I really wanted to be petty, I'd just flip your logic on its head and call you bad for eating Dead Hards, but I'm not gonna sink that low. Let's try to keep this objective and impersonal, yeah?
Yeah I swing too sometimes because I know they have DH and they're not looking behind for example. I know that scenario well and used it to my advantage. With that being said, such cases happen rarely. Most of the common use case is where you MUST swing or you eat a pallet.
Then eat the pallet. You get rid of one pallet and they lose their DH. That's their exhaustion perk out of the way, that you don't have to worry about being a Lithe that'll send them to the other side of the world when they vault a window, or Overcome that will send them running for 10 hours, or a 99'd SB that they'll pop right as you get close, or Balanced that will get them out of an unsafe window vault/drop. You're going out of your way to make special exceptions for why DH specifically is poorly balanced somehow compared to the other exhaustion perks, when the simple fact of the matter is it objectively provides less value than the others, by simple virtue of its value being conditional.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255291#Comment_3255291
That's for swf, I'm talking about for solo queue as there would be no reason to take COH anymore since self care is better and would literally make COH basically useless unless self care is nerfed to (but at this point healing speeds would be so slow that everyone would just bring medkits with built to last instead or just Inner Healing)
At least the experienced survivors anyway
The ability to infinitely heal oneself without sacrificing a perk slot, while also healing other people faster, would be useless if we brought it down to Self-Care levels of speed? How do you even come up with this conclusion? I'm of the opinion that COH shouldn't have any ability to self-heal whatsoever, and should act as a beacon for teammates to heal each other in, instead of the free "go here to reset all pressure that killer spent 3 minutes building up" zone.
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If you're chasing people in Haddonfield main, that's your problem. That's one of the strongest main buildings in the game, you're not gonna win a chase there on most killers. Also, if you're getting bodyblocked, stop tunneling and spread out your pressure. They're giving you free hits, take them and switch your aggro.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353630/nerf-circle-of-healing-again
Slowed to 30%? So then you propose to make self care 20%? Lol
They would still both see use tho I guarantee that, even if self care was nerfed to 1% people would still use it instead of looking for other people to heal them (talking about new players here)
When did I propose to make self-care 20%? Self-care only affects the individual bringing it. If a full team wants to bring self-care, they have to sacrifice 25% of their perk allocation, as opposed to the 6.25% required for COH. It's ridiculous that COH allows you to heal yourself faster than self-care while also being more efficient on your perk allocation, while ALSO acting as slowdown for a killer that needs to continuously snuff it.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3254746#Comment_3254746
A perk's pick rate isn't directly correlated to the amount of value that the survivor gets from it, so saying it's still used a lot isn't really a proper argument.
So why does everyone pick it still? I really don't get this argument. We've had 3 months since 6.10, and it's still used overwhelmingly everywhere. Do you think survivors pick DH, don't get value out of it and then just keep using it lol? Especially, when there is a perk like Sprint Burst which literally any noob player can use to a decent effect. Massive mental gymnastics in my honest opinion.
A killer has to mess up in order for a survivor to get value out of DH, that's how that works.
Simply untrue when it's used as a pallet. There is no counterplay bar for a few killers. The mess-up is on SURVIVOR'S SIDE, not the killers'. If the killer gets baited by it inin the open by a dead hard or on a predictable hit (ex: Nurse, Huntress) then the mistake is on the KILLER'S SIDE.
I feel your pain though. It's mentally exhausting to go up against a 4x DH 4x Adrenaline sweaty swf, but the perk is completely fine in its current state.
Yes, I hate going against this perk on how it conditions the killer to constantly have to wait 2-4 seconds to check if a perk is used (with the addition of an uncounterable mechanic it has). It would be fine if the perk wasn't so dominant in the meta, but more and more lobbies are popping up with 3-4 dead hards. In so many ways new DH is the same as the old DH that honestly it makes me nauseous. Nothing has changed, even after 5 years.
So why does everyone pick it still? I really don't get this argument. We've had 3 months since 6.10, and it's still used overwhelmingly everywhere. Do you think survivors pick DH, don't get value out of it and then just keep using it lol? Especially, when there is a perk like Sprint Burst which literally any noob player can use to a decent effect. Massive mental gymnastics in my honest opinion.
I wasn't making any argument there, I was pointing out how you were conflating correlation with value, which isn't an argument. People run perks all the time that they get no value at all from. People run Deliverance and get hooked first, people run DS and OTR and don't get tunneled off hook, people run Soul Guard and never get picked up from the ground. It's an objective fact that DH, which gives conditional value, gives objectively less value than SB/Lithe, or even Balanced, which gives guaranteed value. The only exhaustion perk I would place below DH is Smash Hit, and that's because it's also conditional value, contingent on the killer eating a pallet. I can't speak for why people run DH, I can only speak for why I (occasionally) run it. I'll run it when I can use a setup that gives me a near guaranteed successful use of DH (For the People into DH with WGLF so the person picked up can also eat a hit, for example). In any game where I personally run DH, I get less value from it than in any game where I run any other exhaustion perk. But I'm also at an MMR on survivor where 95% of killers will wait two and a half hours for the DH, and an MMR on killer where survivors know to fake the DH, so it's not nearly as guaranteed as you make it seem to be. I'll say again, claiming that a perk's pick rate is directly proportional to its value is a non-argument.
Simply untrue when it's used as a pallet. There is no counterplay bar for a few killers. The mess-up is on SURVIVOR'S SIDE, not the killers'. If the killer gets baited by it inin the open by a dead hard or on a predictable hit (ex: Nurse, Huntress) then the mistake is on the KILLER'S SIDE.
And that's specifically why I mentioned that as the exception for when DH has no counterplay. Even then, I'd say there is some counterplay, in the form of not respecting the pallet and not swinging at the DH. A lot of players will greed a pallet if they expect a killer to swing through it at a DH. It works 9/10 times for me. The other 1/10 times is someone playing extra safe that will DH AND drop the pallet. Even then, if we consider DH with its only objective value being giving you a speed boost if you manage to get hit through a pallet, that's still objectively less value than SB/Lithe.
Yes, I hate going against this perk on how it conditions the killer to constantly have to wait 2-4 seconds to check if a perk is used (with the addition of an uncounterable mechanic it has). It would be fine if the perk wasn't so dominant in the meta, but more and more lobbies are popping up with 3-4 dead hards. In so many ways new DH is the same as the old DH that honestly it makes me nauseous. Nothing has changed, even after 5 years.
Consider the following: stop making your "waiting" for DH so blatant. Sometimes, I'll know for a fact a survivor has it, and I'll still swing after waiting a half second, because they never expect it. DbD is a game that is entirely based around mindgames, you can mindgame just about anything, to include the timing on a DH.
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Dead Hard is currently fine. A good killer shouldn't fall for it more than once (or at all, if they wait it out the first time or always expect it). Old Dead Hard gave GUARANTEED value, unconditionally of the killer swinging at it or not. Not only did it let you iframe through things, it also gave you a guaranteed amount of distance that the killer simply could not play around. Current Dead Hard requires prediction on the part of the survivor (it's very very hard to use on reaction, even to a lunge, considering things like reaction time and ping exist). A perk's pick rate isn't directly correlated to the amount of value that the survivor gets from it, so saying it's still used a lot isn't really a proper argument.
The only real problematic way to use Dead Hard is using it into a pallet and having a guaranteed drop, which can't really be countered by a killer, and survivors won't do too often unless they expect you to wait for it. Even at higher levels, good players are relatively predictable when it comes to when they will use it. Injured and running into a window from an unsafe distance? They'll DH. Injured and running through a pallet from just the right distance that they think the killer will swing? They'll DH. Injured and about to take a health state from a predictable killer power (Huntress, Trickster, Pyramid Head etc.), they'll DH. It's just extra steps to secure a down without having to extend a chase, but the value is nowhere near guaranteed. A killer has to mess up in order for a survivor to get value out of DH, that's how that works.
I feel your pain though. It's mentally exhausting to go up against a 4x DH 4x Adrenaline sweaty swf, but the perk is completely fine in its current state.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353630/nerf-circle-of-healing-again
1, killers have insanely strong perks - and I would argue even stronger then survivors
2, COH is by far not as efficient as you make it to be. Search time for killer is much shorter then for survivor, because dull/hex totems blend more (especially dull), dulls don't make any sound, booning takes time and if you are interupted for a split second it regresses to nothing, COH have many strings attached to it (e.g. hex build where everyone cleanses all the dulls).
Going with your suggestion to nerf COH. I would only agree if:
a, COH got it's speed reduced to 125%
b, Eruption lost it's incapacitated part
c, Overcharge started at 50% instead of 75% regression speed and skillcheck was at least 50% larger
It's beyond demoralizing that killer can camp his 3gen and regress it to 0 in rather short amount of time even if 4 survivors are trying to break it - not to mention if 1 got tunneled out. It's unacceptable for these perks to continue to exist under its current form.
- That's fine, but killer can only bring 4 perks to a match, whereas survivors can bring 16. Killer needs to sacrifice 25% of his perk allocation to deal with boons, whereas survivors need to sacrifice as little as 6.25% of their perk allocation to bring COH.
- It definitely is, especially on maps with any semblance of verticality (The Game, Midwich, main buildings with multiple floors). Killer has no idea where the dulls will spawn, and survivors have access to perks that can give them an indication as to where dulls will spawn, as well as being able to bring maps that show the aura.
And as for your "compromise", we're not playing tit for tat. If you have an issue with the perks you listed, you're free to suggest a nerf to them as well. I don't know how popular the suggestion will be, considering you're having problems with the skill check on Overcharge of all things, but it's your prerogative. We're not here to split hairs on what killers have to "give up" in order for COH to be made into something that's ever so slightly more balanced. Either the perk is busted and it needs a nerf, or it isn't, and thus for both killer and survivor perks.